The guy I bought the head from might have a custom made timing cover still. If not, I know he sold several other DOHC items to some racers in Puerto Rico. I'll try to get the contact info.
Contact me at Tomcars1@netscape.net . I have a complete 2.7 L Cosworth Fiero / Super Duty motor from one of the Spice Fiero IMSA GTU vehicles : Ex- Charles Morgan 1988. This engine was built by Vanderly Engineering in Bilouxi Miss . Jack Ondrack and I have exchanged replacement components in the past - he is probably the source for most of your non-Kansas Racing componenets and is going to to be supplying some set-up components in the future. What may be of interest to you is that the engine I have - Pontiac Motorsports : PM181 also has numerous componenets from a second motor: PM182 that disintegrated following an apparent over-rev above 8300 that resulted in a destroyed block at the #1 cylinder. E-mail me with what you are currently missing on your engine and I may have them in my inventory of SPARES or may have contacts to find what you need.
Contact me at Tomcars1@netscape.net . I have a complete 2.7 L Cosworth Fiero / Super Duty motor from one of the Spice Fiero IMSA GTU vehicles : Ex- Charles Morgan 1988. This engine was built by Vanderly Engineering in Bilouxi Miss . Jack Ondrack and I have exchanged replacement components in the past - he is probably the source for most of your non-Kansas Racing componenets and is going to to be supplying some set-up components in the future. What may be of interest to you is that the engine I have - Pontiac Motorsports : PM181 also has numerous componenets from a second motor: PM182 that disintegrated following an apparent over-rev above 8300 that resulted in a destroyed block at the #1 cylinder. E-mail me with what you are currently missing on your engine and I may have them in my inventory of SPARES or may have contacts to find what you need.
Tom Eatman
Jack sold me most of his stuff already Tom. I have subsequently resold most of it. But Jack sold some SD Cosworth stuff to a racer in Puerto Rico and here is his contact info: Rafael Rivera of Ponce, Puerto Rico - his phone number is 787 843 6410
Hey Todd,I bought Jack's old IMSA car that your engine and trans came out of!Small world! Not to hijack the thread too badly,but in the parts you got from Jack,were there any extra Torsen limited slip units for the Getrag/Webster trans?I am looking for one of those units for a friend. Hey Todd,isn't your car a tube frame GT2 syle car also?Can you send me pics of it as I have been compiling a file of pics of any remaining tube framed Fieros still in the country.You can reach me at daviddeersomn@yahoo.com or call me at my shop 732-257-2664 8 to 5 eastern.
Thanks for the info Toddster, I will try to get ahold of him. I finished the second header design today, it's about 4 inches longer than the first but places the turbo in a more ideal location.
Looking for Todd(Toddster) or Tom(Tomcat),I just was looking for some info from Tom and to see if Todd had a Torsen LSD in with the parts he bought from Jack Ondrak?Guys,are you out there?Sorry,but I just feel snubbed due to a topic drift.I own a real IMSA GTU Fiero and just like to collect info on some of the other tube chassis cars left out there. Sorry for the rant, Dave D.
I'm pretty sure it's done...Length from head flange to collector is 19". Each runner is composed of 4 seperate bends, 3 welds required for each, plus the transition from oval to round.
I just realized something the other day when cleaning my garage out to make room for the Latemodel that has my new Super Duty in it. I have a set of IndyCar headers. And guess what? The flange and ports look amazingly like what your Cosworth head exhaust flanges look like. take a look and compare.
Good news, Tomcars1 is going to help me out by letting me use some of his DOHC parts for reference. So except for camshafts, I should be able to reproduce everything I need.
Looking for Todd(Toddster) or Tom(Tomcat),I just was looking for some info from Tom and to see if Todd had a Torsen LSD in with the parts he bought from Jack Ondrak?Guys,are you out there?Sorry,but I just feel snubbed due to a topic drift.I own a real IMSA GTU Fiero and just like to collect info on some of the other tube chassis cars left out there. Sorry for the rant, Dave D.
Sorry to be away from the thread for so long but work is hectic latley. Anyway, I sold all of the spare LSD's I had. Fierobear bought one and I don't think he needs it. You might try to email him.
With a turbo you are putting in somewhat of an inline exhaust restriction. IMO this may need to be taken into accord when designing the headers. Too much flow slows down the exhaust flow killing the boost at the bottom end while too little flow restricts the boost at the top end. With a turbo you want a fast moving exhaust flow. This is best done with Ceramic Coated exhaust tubing that keeps the heat in and tubing that's not overly large which keeps the flow moving quickly. On the exhaust side of the turbo you can go as big as you like without any ill effects.
------------------ 87GT - with 3800SC Series III engine, 4T65eHD 87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H " I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 04-25-2008).]
I ordered material for Cosworth intake #1. I've also been thinking about reviving my barrel throttle idea. It's been occupying most of my thoughts for the last month, I think I've had some good ideas concerning the fabrication and design of it; I also spoke to someone that fabricated their own barrel throttle for a Subie flat 4. I feel that I should develop a more traditional intake manifold first, to refine the tuning process. I'll post some details of my plans for intake 1 later.
The radius of the ends of the ports is about 0.63". So I got some 1-3/8 tube to cut in half. Then I'll just weld two bent flats of aluminum between the two, and I'll have bent runners that are the right size without trying to form things the hard way, like smoosh round tube into ovals and try to bend that. Eventually I'd like to do carbon runners.
And, I started to put down a rough idea of what I'm wanting for the throttle, for each cylinder: It has quite a few things left to work out, and some basic design still to be determined.
Have made a contact with Cosworth and two technical documents on the Super Duty Twin Cam engine are available. I will E-mail you both : one is a detailed specification on the 2.7 and 3.0 Liter versions of this engine with setup / assembly / and start-up instructions. The second document is a parts list for the Twin Cam conversion kit. The kit is very complete as provided from Cosworth - it included everything for a long block except the GM engine case, crankshaft, oiling system ( both a wet sump and a dry sump was used on these engines - the dry sump being the more common for non-drag racing ). The intake system was optional - both Cosworth Digital Fuel injection or Carburation. Unfortunately - most of the components listed by part # are no longer carried in stock by Cosworth. My contact may be able to locate engineering drawings and assembly drawings / instructions for us in the near future. Will have to wait and see on this. Cosworth may have one ( 1 ) Twin Cam conversion kit still available - they will be finding out if it is a complete kit on not. This Kit is VERY complete with most internal recipricating components : Forged pistons, Steel forged rods, etc.. Price will reflect this completeness - initial quote of $8,500 - if complete and available.
Some of the specifications are quite suprising - 2.7 L engine had torque of 234 Ft/ Lbs @ 6500 with a max speed of 8750. 3.0 L engine had torque of 260 Ft/Lbs @ 6500 with a max speed of 8500.
So - your expected power output looks to be realistic in a turbocharged form. This engine - using the GM SuperDuty case and crank is very stout - but Cosworth admits that it is heavy in comparison to competing engines - but that is your advantage in a forced induction format.
Have recieved Tom's email, quite priceless Cosworth documents at this stage.
I've been refining the above barrel throttle, it's starting to look more like reality and less like a pipe dream. Only a minimal amount of work will have to be done on a CNC machine, which I don't always have access to. The rest can be done on a manual mill and lathe.
This has been taking the sideburner to my "other" project:
Though me and my buddies have been known to take a break
I recieved some of the parts (bearings, fasteners, o-rings) for my prototype throttle body, I'm getting pretty amped about that. No news yet about the timing cover and all that business.
Alan sent me his DOHC parts for comparison and reference. His head is set up to use a double timing chain, while mine is only a single. From what I can tell from the Cosworth doc, however, the cams are the same. So I'm going to be doing some fine measuring and get all the journal and critical dimensions from the cams. He also sent me his Cosworth pistons. Pretty impressive for 1980's pieces...They only weigh 20g more than my dished CP pistons, with a full dome. I'd like to use these for reference and have CP make a stronger version in an X-forging, so I'd have the better ring land features that the CP's boast. I'm not sure how this would compare to just sending in a mold of the combustion chamber.
Here's what happens when I use a CNC machine by myself.
Here's what happens when someone helps me along by changing my offsets without telling me:
After closer examination...It looks like the offsets were not changed (I don't have to kill anyone now, yay). When I started cutting, the part flexed enough for the pressure to be relieved off the vise jaws and the part to slip, it rode up to the top of the cutter faster than I could push the stop button. I am fairly suprised this happened, as there was still quite alot of material keeping the top section of the part stiff. Maybe I didn't tighten down the vise enough...who knows. In any case, the prototype barrel throttle is indeed finished . I'll probably make one more to try out some ideas, then I want to start on the 'production' throttles.
[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 06-21-2008).]
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp to the wheels
Throttle body housing #2: Reaming the holes for the alignment pins...
The (somewhat) finished product:
Notably absent from housing #1 are the difficult-to-install thread inserts, which I figured were nice, but not REALLY necessary. I also received the aluminum for the barrel valve portion, and I hope to cut the CORRECT ports into housing #2 this week. I've also made a decision:
The SD4 will complete its first iteration in pushrod form. I have almost all the parts I need except for the header to do this. It would be silly for me not to. In the meantime, I will try completing the parts collection/replication for the DOHC head.
Throttle housing almost done, I'm going to try to get the o-ring lands cut on Monday or Tuesday.
I can see this thing flowing pretty good:
Fit is exceptional, at most 5-10 thousandths off in places. Luckily for me all the ports are very consistent. I haven't done any calculations for runner length using this throttle setup, so I'm still not sure where these things are going to sit.
I still haven't gotten to do the end caps, haven't been able to scrounge the material...Soon though.
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor
While work starts on prototype throttle #2 housing, branches to different parts on proto-throttle #1:
Seeing this reminded me of an article I seen in an old hotrod mag where this company was doing an experimental head for a Ford 5 Litre engine where the valves were removed and something similar to this was installed in a brand new casting. They had a stock black and rotating assy spinning at 10K RPMs! Never heard anything about it past that. I hope someone seen the same article I did to verify this.
The problems I have always seen is 1) maintaining seal integrity, and 2) Flow inefficiencies through partially opened valves. Fix those, put 50 years on the design, and you've got a pretty good system.
quote
Originally posted by FieroWannaBe:
What package is that, those are extremely nice renders.
It's Bunkspeed Hypershot. A monkey could use it. For the above examples I loaded IGES conversions of my models, right clicked on the model and defined a material, and took a real-time screen shot, didn't even "render" per se.
I got my ARP flywheel bolts in today. They fit the flywheel perfectly, they were described as Tilton flywheel bolts only, so I took a little gamble.
I was a little concerned at first, with the amount of overhang on the back of the crankshaft face, near the main bearing.
I did a test fit of the crank in the block, and there's a good .020-.030" gap between the faces of the bolts and the main adapter. If the bolts touch the main, I'll already have bigger problems.
[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 09-18-2008).]
So I've found another ECU that looks like it will work best for my needs. Best mix of ability and price. It's the Link G4 Xtreme. I downloaded the tuning/interface program and have been playing with it for several weeks now. It's extremely intuitive, and easy to set up complex details, assign inputs, outputs, edit maps, do everything that needs to be done. By far the best tuning interface I have ever used. Has alot of inputs/outputs, can do VVT, sequential injection, COP, traction control, anti-lag, etc. AND it's about $1400 WITH harness. This is much cheaper than many other equivalent products.
Very cool! I hope to see your monster on the road soon enough! I was watching Horsepower TV and they were installing some monster turbo engine in a Mustang, but they used an interesting idea for mounting the engine: sheets of steel on the transmission and the front of the engine. The front sheet could act to the keep the heat from the turbos away from the engine. I caught only part of that episode, but it sound like an interesting idea to mount a high horsepower motor.
I've been thinking about doing mount plates like that. I'm not sure if there are really enough points on the Fiero cradle to interface a mount plate with that would make it and different than the more traditional style mounts. The tradeoff that comes with being able to drop the cradle, I guess. I think it would probably be a good idea on the transmission end though.
Still working on it...Just got married a couple of days ago, hasn't been a priority on the budget lately. Been working on some other projects too, building an AR-15 among other things. No progress to report since last time, though I am going to have access to a CNC machine for quite some time soon, and I will probably be able to do some items I've posted about above.
. I'll probably make one more to try out some ideas, then I want to start on the 'production' throttles.
