I haven't made much progress lately, Iv'e been distracted by a new project that is bringing me back to my favorite passtime, Motocross. I'm currently building a bike to race in AHRMA vintage mx, I'm in full thrash mode as AHRMA has a national event coming here next weekend, if you'd like to know more go to ahrma.org.
I'll be back on this project soon, I'll keep ya' posted.
bump for keeping it current. Anything with this since August? Following with great anticipation. Joe, would you post some measurments of your engine placement when you get time? A fabricator buddy of mine is saying to put the engine where I want it, then make mock mount out of styrofoam or cardboard.
My problem with that is, how will I know it's straight and level? I want the CV shafts to have as little deflection as possible (I'm using the G6 transmission). I'm thinking that if I just get someone who obviously knows what they're doing and do what they do, I'll be all right...
------------------ 86 Fiero GT -Stage eleventy billion...(pieces, that is!)
HOLY CRAP !!! Nice fab work !!!! I need to keep track of more peoples build threads, awesome progress. And where DID you get those exhaust tips
I'd be interested in those Getrag brackets you made.
------------------ MINNESOTA MAFIA Real men get blown 87 GT MP-112 powered, 3800 Supercharged on 19's____88 GT T-top 1 of very few, 119.4 miles 87 GT custom______90 Grand prix STE Turbo_____98 ZX750R IF YOU AIN'T BREAKING STUFF..................IT AIN'T MODDED ENOUGH Best Fiero mounts available https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/062388.html
My Gawd, What page did you drag this up from, Oldman 88? Thanks for the bump, I was thinking about bumping it up to keep it from getting archived.
About those exaust tips, I got them through a friends muffler shop. The supplier he got them from is about a block away from him. I'll get a hold of him and get the name and # and post it up.
No new progress to report at this time, the car isn't very high on my project list at the moment. As soon as I get it back into the shop I'll get some dimensions for engine location posted.
Shawn, I'm sure the rear bracket would make a nice addition to your mounts, let's talk about it when I get the car back in my shop.
Thanks for the intrest.
If a problem has no solution, there's no use worrying about it, If the problem has a solution, there's no problem. Joe
I bolted the Northstar up to the transmission and sat the transmission down on the stock mounts. With the cradle sitting level on my shop floor, I leveled the motor with the bubble sitting on the intake ports on the heads without the intake. Front to rear is was level sitting on the poly mounts and IIRC, the front (passenger side) of the pan is about 5/8" off the floor to make the engine sit in there level and square.
I also ran into the problem of having to chop the hell out of the hinge box on the passenger side. It might have been made to work, but I didn't like it either so out came the plasma cutter and both side boxes have been completely removed now. The rear deck lid will be pinned with pins located at the stock rubber/plastic bumper mounts L/R and one pin on the back. We tried removing the deck lid by hand just one person and it's much easier than I thought it would be, especially with the '84 grille in the front center of the decklid. (It's an '84 decklid and grille and then we use the '86 notchie side vents as well to aid heat flow out of the compartment).
Mounting it in the stock trans mount locations, we had virtually NO clearance with the right strut tower and rear head. Nothing a BFH didn't take care of and we're running coilovers as well.
We made our rear mount similar to Joe's except we ran ours OVER the axle instead of under because we want to run our front exhaust back through the stock exhaust location and run true duals. Joe's mounts look nice, but If I'm looking at them correctly, they will block off access to the notch in the rear cradle where the exhaust comes through.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by Will:
Hmm... I'm going to revisit what I said before... I left the trans mounts stock and put the Northstar crank bolt right where the 2.8 crank bolt had been, relative to the right cradle rail. Everything lined up just fine. The engine could probably move left a little bit and I may do that, but I think that overall just putting it in the same place that GM put the 2.8 is the best thing to do.
Originally posted by jstricker: Mounting it in the stock trans mount locations, we had virtually NO clearance with the right strut tower and rear head. Nothing a BFH didn't take care of and we're running coilovers as well.
We may be looking at variation of mass-produced bodies, but I have about 1/4" clearance between the cam cover and strut tower. Since the engine moves fore-aft and not so much side-side I just left it.
I also did not have a big problem there on my 88. I cut a ~ 1 1/2" dia hole in the tower to provide some wiggle room for a bolt head that was real close, but that was it. the engine/trans is moved over to the drivers side 3/4" or so. in order to hide the hole in the tower, I cut a piece of rubber and glued it to the inside of the tower with contact cement. you don't even see the hole now.
I also did not have a big problem there on my 88. I cut a ~ 1 1/2" dia hole in the tower to provide some wiggle room for a bolt head that was real close, but that was it. the engine/trans is moved over to the drivers side 3/4" or so. in order to hide the hole in the tower, I cut a piece of rubber and glued it to the inside of the tower with contact cement. you don't even see the hole now.
Russ544
so you moved it over 3/4 wihout modding trans mounting or axles? I havent yet fitted mine to the body yet although its on the cradle with stock trans mount location
If the altenator fails while i'm in the middle of nowhere, I'm fracked! it's a pain to get in and out at home in my shop with a big floor jack and tall jackstands.
it sucks just as bad in the caddy so don't feel too bad
so you moved it over 3/4 wihout modding trans mounting or axles? I havent yet fitted mine to the body yet although its on the cradle with stock trans mount location
In the stock engine/trans location you will have more of an issue with the strut tower clearance on the 88. by moving everything to the left by the "Archie method" you'll reduce your headaches by several points. I did modify (shorten and regrove) my left axle slightly, but that isn't always necessary. I just wanted to be sure the tri-pot didn't bottom in the housing.
In the stock engine/trans location you will have more of an issue with the strut tower clearance on the 88. by moving everything to the left by the "Archie method" you'll reduce your headaches by several points. I did modify (shorten and regrove) my left axle slightly, but that isn't always necessary. I just wanted to be sure the tri-pot didn't bottom in the housing.
Russ544
Do you have an 88? If so, then I would rather use your idea, I should have no problem shortening the left axle a bit. Do you think 3/4 inch is the max allowable shift without custom axle?
Actually, I think it's a variatio of the West Coast Fiero Poly Trans mounts we're using. We had them in the Finale when it had the V6 and they were always a PITA to get in and out with the stock motor mount. With no front motor mount, they went right in. We had clearance with our dummy motor HEAD of about 1/4" or so, but much less than that with the cam sensor, or so it appeared, maybe it wasn't as close as it looked. A few well placed blows with the BFH cleared up any question at all. I will say this, in many ways, especially the crank pulley and belt replacement, the clearance is a lot better than the SBC in the Roadster.
John Stricker
Edited to add that I did NOT move my trans mounts over to the drivers side at all, they are just where they were with the V6. I could have gained the same clearance I got with the BFH by slotting the holes ala the Archie method, I'm sure.
quote
Originally posted by Will:
We may be looking at variation of mass-produced bodies, but I have about 1/4" clearance between the cam cover and strut tower. Since the engine moves fore-aft and not so much side-side I just left it.
[This message has been edited by jstricker (edited 12-22-2007).]
I have the 5 speed tranny in the stock location with stock axles. I'm using lowered tranny mounts. They are about an inch lower than stock. With my strut tower in the 88 I only had to tap it with a ball ping hammer to clear the valve cover/head. I think sitting lower helped more. With it lower, I'll have to make a skid plate as I'm just a tad lower than the cradle so that's a bit scary if I hit something or back up into something.
Don't worry about the hijack, you guys are doing a good job of keeping it floating near the top, thanks.
Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe
If you'd get back to work on it, we wouldn't have to entertain ourselves by chatting about it amonst ourselves
Eric. yes I have an 88. 3/4" is about max shift, not so much because of the left axle (it can be shortened), but because if you move any more than that the right side axle (tripot) can actually come out of the cv housing under hard cornering/loads. that wouldn't be a good thing. I'll see if I can dig up a pic of the way I altered my L axle here shortly, but like I said, that was just for my own piece of mind. I had a left side axle bottom out on me on my sbc car once, and I it's made me kinda paranoid since then.
edit: here's a post from my build (IMSA widebody - russ style page 7) I cheated the engine over to the left a tad too much when I built my sbc car and had a small problem with the cv joint bottoming out under acceleration. it wouldn't take long to destroy an axle if this were allowed to continue, so I figured out a way to shorten the left axle by about 5/8" without having custom axles made up. Now that I'm building this Northstar project, that lesson \has come in handy, as the 88 chassis is even tighter than the earlier models and the Northstar needs every bit of "cheating" you can get away with to place the engine further to the left and out of reach of the right hand shock tower. A 1/2" or so can easily be taken up by the cv joint, but more than that requires some alterations to the LH axle. What I did was to disassemble the left axle and cut (grind) new snap ring grooves as far in on each end of the splines as possible. this ends up being just over 1/4" on each end. with the new grooves cut, the ends of the axle can be shortened by a like amount which gives the tripot about 5/8" more clearance before it bottoms out in it's housing. I did some measuring today and it appears that I'll be able to get away without any cutting of the shock tower at all. I may have to remove a small piece of the side of the tower cap, just to give a little wiggle room for the cyl head, but that's about it.
stock axle compared to modified.
if you want to do this, keep in mind that the grooves must be ground in, as the axle is much too hard to simply cut them in on a lathe.
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-22-2007).]
Actually, I think it's a variatio of the West Coast Fiero Poly Trans mounts we're using. We had them in the Finale when it had the V6 and they were always a PITA to get in and out with the stock motor mount. With no front motor mount, they went right in. We had clearance with our dummy motor HEAD of about 1/4" or so, but much less than that with the cam sensor, or so it appeared, maybe it wasn't as close as it looked. A few well placed blows with the BFH cleared up any question at all. I will say this, in many ways, especially the crank pulley and belt replacement, the clearance is a lot better than the SBC in the Roadster.
John Stricker
Edited to add that I did NOT move my trans mounts over to the drivers side at all, they are just where they were with the V6. I could have gained the same clearance I got with the BFH by slotting the holes ala the Archie method, I'm sure.
I'm using the trans in the stock location with a WCF poly rear trans mount and a home grown poly front trans mount similar to Rodney Dickman's. The cam sensor has plenty of clearance since it ends up about 1 1/2" above the frame rail. the closest approach between the cam cover and the strut tower is about 1/4" and that's at the highesy point on the cover and the leftmost point on the strut tower.
I'm all about using the stock locations and all, but what I really want to do here is center the weight as much as possible. Plus, I'm using the G6 trans, not the Getrag, so the stock locations would have to be modified anyway. That's why I wanted Joe's dimensions. Plus, Archie says he can make some axles for me if I can give him the G6 bellhousing location relative to the stock Fiero location; I can't do that until I decide where to put the entire unit.
Now that I have some garage space again, I may just go out there and play with it-the car I mean...
------------------ 86 Fiero GT -Stage eleventy billion...(pieces, that is!)
It's funny how things go sometimes, I had every intention of getting back to this last year (ya know what they say about the road to hell)!!! I've got a couple of projects to clear out of the garage, then we'll see what happens.
There is no problem that can't be solved, it just takes the right amount of skill, money or a combination of both. Joe
moonscomputer, welcome, to the forum, and thanks for the bump, I haven't had much to say about this project lately because every time I think I'm getting close to working on it again, I seem to find new ways to distract myself . Having said that I seem to finally be getting back on top of my to do list, and think I'll be getting back to it this summer.
moonscomputer, welcome, to the forum, and thanks for the bump, I haven't had much to say about this project lately because every time I think I'm getting close to working on it again, I seem to find new ways to distract myself . Having said that I seem to finally be getting back on top of my to do list, and think I'll be getting back to it this summer.
Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe
I would like to know if you would consider making / modifying cradles & mounts for this swap once you get it the way you want it? I want to do a N* 4 speed swap but lack the fabrication skills to make the cradle.
If the altenator fails while i'm in the middle of nowhere, I'm fracked! it's a pain to get in and out at home in my shop with a big floor jack and tall jackstands.
to get this thing out takes the following steps.
Remove belt Unbolt the a/c compressor, let rest on cradle Unbolt rear alt mount (not shown in pic) Unbolt main bracket (swing alt up on upper bracket to gain room to accses hardware) The remove alt from upper bracket.
(with as tight as every thing is, it's a lot harder than it sounds. I spent a good portion of this afternoon working out what it took to get the alt into the car).
All of that requires me to be able to get the car high enough off the ground to get to it, I think that a new alt is going in at final assembly. Rant off.
I know this is late, but I switched from a CS144 to a smaller framed CS130 alternator that I'm pretty sure I can remove with the car on the ground.
wish I would have thought about going with the smaller case.. I had to dump all my freon to change my alt.. if I had replaced with smaller unit it would come out without pulling a/c
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87GTseries 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft) (series II swap in progress) 85GT Northstar/ 4t80e 86GT 3800 n/a Northstar Rebuild
Hey dude. You ever finish this car? I don't see anything past page 3. I would like to hear from anyone how they like the Northstar in their builds and what might be the best tranny for this type of build. Also how their cars handle. I haven't found anyone on here who has talked about these things. Please guys help me out. I want to know if I should can this idea of my Northstar build. I know Archie's opinion but I can't get that high reving engine out of my mind. Also the sound of the Northstar is terrific when you have magnaflows. Sounds almost like a ferrari only a little deeper throated. The flowmasters are really good too. Any input would be graciously accepted. I love this engine and it's smooth high reving motor. Please let me hear from you other northstar builders what you have experienced. Thanks in advance. DD
Oops. Sorry Joe didn't mean to step on your toes. I see now your back on the build. I have just found your build and read through it twice. I am eager to hear great news about your build as this what I would like to do with my Enterra. Again sorry I spoke out of turn. Just excited to finally see aa build and what's ahead for me with mine.
Oops. Sorry Joe didn't mean to step on your toes. I see now your back on the build. I have just found your build and read through it twice. I am eager to hear great news about your build as this what I would like to do with my Enterra. Again sorry I spoke out of turn. Just excited to finally see aa build and what's ahead for me with mine.
. Having said that I seem to finally be getting back on top of my to do list, and think I'll be getting back to it this summer.
