thanks for the bump , fos .i have finally put the car away for the winter .the driving season this year was the longest ever for my fiero , first time ever driving in december .too bad it was such a cold summer around here .hardly ever got the boat out .great weather for golf ,except for the rain .got the car up on its dollies now .hope to start the roger thelin shift conversion soon and clean up the engine bay .have a great mod season and merry christmas everyone !
i have not done much to the fiero so far , the car ran great all summer .i hope to clean up a few things .but i have decided to not do anything major this year .in the spring i am going to get it painted,and that will take up all my spare cash .i had plans to change my centre console and shift linkage and i have all the parts to do this, but i decided i like my cupholders better .i will try to get some pics up of thelins parts but i need to organize my photos first .in other words , the car is running so good that i no longer have that urge to try to constantly improve it .
i dont have a wideband O2 .i would like one , but since i have the HP tuners setup , i mostly tune based on the scans i take with it .there are limited changes you can make to the A/F ratio on the various tables .mostly i have tuned to avoid knock while keeping the timing as high as i can get away with .the water meth takes care of a lot of the knock and the ECM does the rest .i have a lot to learn about tuning but the car runs well as it sits now .
Just read this whole thread, nice job on the Ecotec.....I actually just picked up a 2.0 Turbo ecotec before xmas and have been getting it ready to fab into the fiero subframe, but I am swapping the pistons and head to a supercharged 2.0 engine so I don't have to run the direct fuel injection system. I would suggest getting a wideband O2 system because tuning with HPtuners and the wideband works so much better, if you ever need a hand with tuning my friend tunes many cobalt SS's with lots of mods (he tuned my 2.0 SC meth injected 2.6" pulley ecotec DD). What temp difference are you noticing between your intake before and after the turbo? What temps are you hitting at WOT? Unlike you, I am going to run a air to air intercooler, not a water to air, I hope that I can get enough airflow to the intercooler to cool the charged air enough.
Like you my car isn't going to have much of a trunk with the turbo, and since my chassis was rusty I already completely removed the whole thing, going to make things so much easier.
Just read this whole thread, nice job on the Ecotec.....I actually just picked up a 2.0 Turbo ecotec before xmas and have been getting it ready to fab into the fiero subframe, but I am swapping the pistons and head to a supercharged 2.0 engine so I don't have to run the direct fuel injection system. I would suggest getting a wideband O2 system because tuning with HPtuners and the wideband works so much better, if you ever need a hand with tuning my friend tunes many cobalt SS's with lots of mods (he tuned my 2.0 SC meth injected 2.6" pulley ecotec DD). What temp difference are you noticing between your intake before and after the turbo? What temps are you hitting at WOT? Unlike you, I am going to run a air to air intercooler, not a water to air, I hope that I can get enough airflow to the intercooler to cool the charged air enough.
Like you my car isn't going to have much of a trunk with the turbo, and since my chassis was rusty I already completely removed the whole thing, going to make things so much easier.
Keep up the awesome work
Jer
Where did you get your ecotec engine? I'd like to get an LSJ myself but can't seem to find anything for under $3k. Is that really the going rate - $3k?
I bought my 2.0 turbo LNF for $350 as a parts motor with 17k on it, transmission came in at $500, and so far misc pieces/brackets/fuel rail/coil packs have cost another $500, they aren't cheap especailly the LSJ's and LNF's, but you can get a 2.2L base ecotec for significantly cheaper than the 2.0 variants........the only problems you run into is like wtfb when trying to boost an engine that was never wired for boost.
Check the local cobalt/ion/pontiac boards (ontariocobaltclub.com, OPG, and to a lesser extent our6thplanet.com <-more into the S-series saturns than the ION's) , you can sometimes catch a break with locating an ecotec. Also check out the more national boards like IONforums.net or CobaltSS.net
hopefully , GM will put the 2.0 turbo into more cars and they will be plentiful one day .i have toyed with the idea of buying a cobalt ss , they are dropping in price but are not down to donor car status yet .when i can pick one up for 4000.00 or so i probably will .
my intake temp at the charge pipe before the throttle body max out at 36* C .thats on a warm day . with air to air i was hitting over 42*C .the only thing i dont like with the water cooler is there seems to be a bit of a dead spot in 4TH gear when you hold the throttle wide open after downshifting from 5TH at hwy speeds .running up through the gears, WOT works fine .this is one of the things i need to look at in the spring .
currently in my DD setup with a 2.6" pulley on the stock M62 blower I am making just under 18 psi boost (I would be making more boost if my intake and exhaust weren't so free flowing), and even with meth/water injection, twin intercoolers, dual pass endplate, and a high flow water pump I still can hit 48-50 degrees on my charge side.
coppertop_01, I can see the benefits, but why would you want to give up all the benefits of direct injection?
You'll lose all the low end torque, and I have a feeling some of the hp as well..
Can't you just use the ECU from the DI motor? If you use all the wiring from the donor car, I don't see how DI is more complicated than regualr injection. (a bit naiive, I know. - but everything outside the motor is pretty much the same regarding fuel pressure as non DI motors)
getting rid of the DI because of the lack of larger injectors, cost of injectors and all related hardware (ie, cam driven fuel pump delivering 2300psi pressure, fuel rail, fuel lines), and the problem of parts being few and far between forcing me to look at dealerships for parts.
I realize the benefits of DI, but with the relative costs and hard to find parts it was simpler to go with the LSJ head and standard off the shelf injectors/fuel system required with it.
the beauty of the DI setup is you dont need larger injectors to up the boost .the high pressure pump and all the HP lines are bolted right on the engine .lines from the tank are fairly low pressure , nothing unusual .stock boost on the 2.0 turbo is 20 psi .trouble is if you dont get all the donor cars wiring and computer stuff , you are never going to make it work .i would like to get the 2.0 supercharged motor because i can run it with my 2.2 wiring .i would ditch the supercharger and run a turbo setup .now that i have had a turbo on the car and worked the bugs out , i dont think a supercharger would do it for me . on the various forums , you see cobalt and cavalier ecotec guys selling SC setups a lot to switch to turbos .my boost maxes out at about 11.5 , just running the stock spring and no controller .i am happy with that boost level and the power the car puts out .the 2.0 SC block comes with better rods , crank and piston oil squirters .2.2 and 2.0SC heads are identical .2.4 heads have the V V R but the castings are still the same .there is a lot of mixing and matching that can be done with these motors .
yeah thats the beauty of the ecotec motors, is the interchangeability within all the different versions, hell in europe they have a diesel version of the ecotec.
The 2.0 LNF block that I got has even better block and crank than the LSJ's, the oil jets are a wonderful upgrade to the LSJ/LNF blocks over the 2.2L variants. You can still max out the DI injectors though, granted it would be with so much boost that it would only be a race vehicle, but still finding all the bits and pieces to get the LNF with DI head working properly would be much harder than I am looking to make my project. A LSJ head is good enough for me, and still the amount of options I have for custom/high performance parts on the LSJ is better than the LNF head currently.
As for supercharger or turbo's, I have had both, superchargers is better for a daily driver IMO as boost builds right down low, whereas some turbo's setups spool too long making daily driving a pain in the ass........really it depends all on your driving style and what you want in a car.
The DI pistons have a funky domes to direct the fuel spray at cold start up. Be sure to double check clearances if you don't swap the pistons too.
I'm not sure how many lbs/hour those DI's can move, but there is a factory tune that can get you 30 hp and 80 ft/lbs more and keep the warranty and pass emissions. So I bet they left a smiggin more on the table.
------------------ yellow 88 GT, not stock white 88 notchie, 4 banger
Actually the LSJ and LNF heads started out as the same net shape sand cast (circa 2006), the lesser varities have lost foam cast heads (same as the block). The LSJ has the bosses for variable cam phasing and the DI injectors but are not machined.
I would bet the LNF heads have been tweaked some more since the SS Cobalts and HHR's have gone LNF.
------------------ yellow 88 GT, not stock white 88 notchie, 4 banger
ccfiero, yes I am swapping the pistons and rods out as well as the head. Currently my engine has no rotating components save the crank for mounting into my subframe.
From what I have seen the castings are slightly different between LSJ and LNF (maybe not cam locations, exhaust ports, etc) but there is a big difference with the intake ports, and the LNF has ports for the DI, the intake ports are angled upwards to allow for the injectors to go under it, the LSJ head intake ports are a angled straight out.
If I could figure a way to plug the DI ports, I would look into that and keep the LNF head.
They rebuild aluminum race heads all the time when something lets go. Try contacting a good race engine builder in your area and see if you can get a referral to a good head re-builder.
------------------ yellow 88 GT, not stock white 88 notchie, 4 banger
i didnt do anything to the car all winter .got lazy cause the car was running great and i have another project on the go .but now that i am driving the car again , some problems have come along that i had to fix .first i developed a leak between the turbo and the exhaust manifold .this was minor but caused the turbo to spool up slower than normal and was noisy till it warmed up .i did not use a gasket between these surfaces and that worked fine all last summer but some corrosion developed over the winter to cause the leak .so i made a steel adapter plate so i could use gaskets in between .seems to work well so far .the other thing that happened was that the bolt holding my homemade dogbone broke off at the thread line inside the threaded hole . so i welded up a new mount that now sits under the drive pully at the front of the motor .i incorporated an dogbone from my old 85 4 cyl .the rubber is too old and sloppy though , i am going to get a poly dog bone soon .but this mount incrporates a double shear mount so it wont have all the stress on one side of one bolt .after i tried it out , i added an angle brace to it to avoid flexing at the base of the post .i did not get a pic of the brace .pics: the leak : the fix: what my exhaust system looks like out of the car: i am planning on buying a proper turbo manifold but i want to get through this summer with this setup .i havent decided on the mfr yet so hopefully this fix will last for this season .
here is Roger Thelin's conversion kit for using the stock fiero shifter .i decided not to use it because i like my consule as is now and i was a little leary of doing the transaxle stuff .but the instructions are well written and it does look like a fairly straight foreward install .all the brackets and adapters are really well made :
here is Roger Thelin's conversion kit for using the stock fiero shifter .i decided not to use it because i like my consule as is now and i was a little leary of doing the transaxle stuff .but the instructions are well written and it does look like a fairly straight foreward install .all the brackets and adapters are really well made :
i replaced my plastic BOV with a much better aluminum model by turbo xs .the old bosche was errattic and seemed to leak and was causing surging .cured the flat spot in my 4th gear downshift to pass scenario .looks better too .
this is the cavalier air intake adapted to the fiero breather assembly .i cut it and taped it back together and it works really well.the fiero throttle cable fits the ecotec throttle body by simply hooking it on.
Did you just hook the eyelet over the end and not actually secure it any way?
that is the way i did it , the eyelet hooks on the throttle body wheel and has never come loose .this is a v6 throttle cable .4 cylinder cables will not work on an ecotec throttle body .
i went for a drive today .filled up the tank and bought a 2.5 gallon plastic gas can and filled it up and put it in the trunk .the object was to drive the car till it ran out of gas so i know how far i can get away with .i dont have a working gas gauge still , so i time my fill ups with my trip odometer .it seemed like a good plan but here it is 406 Km later and i still havent run out of gas yet .i have to work tomorrow and friday so my little experiment will end for now .dont want to have to jerry can it on the way to work, the comments would be never ending from everyone that sees me on the side of the road .
i went for a drive today .filled up the tank and bought a 2.5 gallon plastic gas can and filled it up and put it in the trunk .the object was to drive the car till it ran out of gas so i know how far i can get away with .i dont have a working gas gauge still , so i time my fill ups with my trip odometer .it seemed like a good plan but here it is 406 Km later and i still havent run out of gas yet .i have to work tomorrow and friday so my little experiment will end for now .dont want to have to jerry can it on the way to work, the comments would be never ending from everyone that sees me on the side of the road .
I did a calculation based on the reported fuel consumption for a cobalt ss taking into consideration the size of the fiero's fuel tank. If I recall correclty, you should see something north of 500km from a full tank of gas. When you run out, please update...cheers.
ran out of gas at 508.8 km .it took 34.35 litres to fill it up (including my 9 litre gas can) .total km driven was 518 .that is 15.08 km per litre or 35.34 miles to the american gallon (3.78 L) .this was mixed driving , mostly 2 lane highways , going through towns and city streets .only about 80 km on expressways .so i am pretty happy with these figures .the tank is smaller than i thought .not even 10 us gallons .
ran out of gas at 508.8 km .it took 34.35 litres to fill it up (including my 9 litre gas can) .total km driven was 518 .that is 15.08 km per litre or 35.34 miles to the american gallon (3.78 L) .this was mixed driving , mostly 2 lane highways , going through towns and city streets .only about 80 km on expressways .so i am pretty happy with these figures .the tank is smaller than i thought .not even 10 us gallons .
Wow, nearly 200km more than I usually get with my 2.8 v6 with the 4 speed stick in similar driving conditions. One day, I'll have an ecotec in my Fiero as well!!!
Thanks for updating wftb, good to hear someone confirming my calculations.
you were almost bang on . i thought i would fall victim to the stock fiero's tendency to leave 2 gallons in the tank .my 85 would run out of gas with slightly under 1/4 tank showing on the gauge .as it is , i am really satisfied , now i will fill up at 400 km instead of 250 .
i have put the fiero away for the winter .a little earlier than usual but driving in the rain in the dark going to and from work is not pleasant in the fiero .and i bought a new big fabric shed i can fit the fiero and my boat in .i am going to do a little work on it this year .i have stainless brake lines and clutch line to install and if i have the money i found a willwood 12" brake kit i think i can make fit .part #140-9193 .bigger brakes with less weight , sounds good to me .
i decided to take the head off to see how things are holding up in there .i took it off and it all looks really good , everything pretty clean and cylinders smooth and valves look good .all the eco forums say you cant boost a 2.2 without blowing it up but i really dont see a problem .i think most of them have not gone to the extreme lengths of charge cooling that i have... anyway , while i have it open i am going to put in some wiseco pistons and some eagle rods and add a electronic boost controller .i am going to use the 10:1 pistons and max out at about 14 psi .i am also going to run individual cylinder water/meth nozzles .i really think water meth is what has kept this engine in such great shape .i will try to get some pics up soon , i now have a mac so i have to figure pip all over again .(well actually my wife will have to do that )
i have my new pistons and rods ordered now from allecotec.com .i got the old pistons out and they are mostly in great shape .it looks like some debris got in to # 2 cylinder and caused some scoring on the cylinder walls .my plan was to use the old rings on the new pistons and leave the cylinders as is , but the scoring made me change my mind .so i got a hone and gave it my best shot .they came out OK , not perfect, but i used an old ring to check the bores and they seem close enough .if it doesnt work out and i end up burning too much oil , i will have to go get a low mile 2.2 and swap my new parts in to it .the bearings on the rods all look like new so that was good to see .
engine parts are supposed to be shipped monday , so i should have everything by wednsday .i have been busy rerouting hoses and i drilled a turbo drain hole in the oil pan so i am finally going to get rid of the oil scavenger pump .i also took off my inline fuel pump that has been disconnected most of the time it has been on the car.it just isnt needed and it did not work the way i planned it to so it is just weight for nothing .i have a bunch of pics to post but i cant seem to get them sized right to get pip to accept them .still looking for an easy to use photo program .
