As for the marker lights, I'm not done yet and I can always modify things more if there is a problem. Yes, I've already been stopped and given a bogus "improper left turn" ticket as a way for them to check everything out. Here's a shot of the plate recess mounted - that's probably a "grey" area there but then again so is the nitrous kit.
Another option could be under the driver's indicator light like Eclipse did here:
However I do agree, I have to run a front plate - any other ideas where to locate? BTW - I never thought this thread would get 10 pages long! Thanks for the input everyone as most of the body mods have had forum member influence
Well some bad news as the car stranded me in front of the LCBO today - at least I didn't go thirsty
I obviously haven't solved the no start when hot condition. Might be grounds or fuel vapor lock or ignition or who knows? I do have a GM Tech 1 ODBI scanner but I don't think it's going to help with this problem. Anyways time to research what possible solutions could be and in the meantime work on the other project.
So I got it home tonight with a boost once the engine had cooled. The battery is weak, so it's going on the charger for tonight.
The engine was warm when I got home (about a 10 min drive up the highway). I tried to start it immediately after shutting it off and it just cranked and cranked and didn't even come close to starting. So I did a few checks:
1. Removed the breather / air filter to eliminate a clogged filter - did not start so reattached. 2. Added an engine to battery negative ground cable and tested for start - did not start. 3. Tested fuel pressure at the schrader valve - 47psi with key turned on, 45psi while cranking and 41psi after key off - all in 41-47psi spec. 4. Sprayed Quik start on K&N filter and then cranked - it started.
This makes me think it's a fuel problem and not a spark issue?
After a full battery charge tomorrow I am thinking I should change the fuel filter and test the fuel injectors for operation and leakage. Any other suggestions?
Using the search feature seems to suggest Ignition Control Module - (that I just changed). Other suggestions were the CTS (coolant temp sensor) or ECM heat. I can try keeping the cover off the ECM in the trunk and replace the CTS in the waterpump. I also tried disconnecting the MSD box altogether but the car still did not start when warm. Does anyone think the coil is the problem? (although it starts and runs fine when cold).
My DeLorean had this problem and it was a fuel accumulator, it a part right off the fuel pump. But as far as I know the Fiero has no such part. The reason for the no hot start was fuel pressure would bleed off when warm and sitting. But I do not know for sure what you cars problem is.
Big plus for the ogre! Found my problem without spending any money. It was the ECM in my trunk getting heat stroke from engine bay heat. Just needed to seal up and insulate the large hole and I will make a vented computer cover to replace the solid one in the trunk. I guess it took a couple really hot days to show the problem as it hadn't been an issue in the past. To confirm my diagnosis, I drove out to Niagara on the Lake with the computer just resting on the trunk carpeting (no cover) and the hole sealed. It restarted everytime hot with no quick start needed.
As promised, here is the scan data after letting it idle 15-20 minutes in 90plus degree weather:
Idle - 950 CTS - 210F INJ 1 Fault NO INJ 2 Fault - NO Knock - OK IC - OK System Volts - 13.6 Learned IAC - 33 INJ Pulse Width Bank 1 - 3.5msec INJ Pulse Width Bank 2 - 3.5msec Lo Res Signal - 15 msec Hi Res signal - 1-250 Knock Retard - 0 degrees Knock Signal - NO Spark Advance - 20 degrees Fuel Trim Cell - 16 Fuel Trim Enable - YES Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2 - 122 Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 - 124 Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 2 - 148 Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 - 152 TPS - 0.46V Throttle Angle - 0% MAP - 60 KPa (2.66V) Baro - 103 KPa (4.98V) Engine coolant temp 223 degrees Intake Air Temp 163 degrees
The only real engine annoyance I've never been able to solve is the loping idle 800-1100 rpm. It did it before and after the engine rebuild with cam change. IAC was replaced but I've been told the problem is due to relatively low vacuum at idle (12-15 in Hg) so that was why I had the new chip burned. Although did it before and after chip reprogram - the ECM seems to keep hunting as it moves the IAC in and out trying to make corrections. If anyone can tip me in the right direction, you'd be my hero as it even has the GM mechanics stumped - I know that's not saying much
Well I'm glad I didn't go even lower then as that was my other idea. They are very low on the Nissans as pic above. I wanted it near a body line, away from the curve of the fender flare, and below the original location. Next time I might ask for opinions before cutting the holes
Well I'm glad I didn't go even lower then as that was my other idea. They are very low on the Nissans as pic above. I wanted it near a body line, away from the curve of the fender flare, and below the original location. Next time I might ask for opinions before cutting the holes
Its your car!! Do what you think looks the best!! After all your the only person that it really matters too.
Thanks - back to the powertrain in the meantime. I decided to replace the ECM with a reman unit and just transferred the custom PROM:
The lower trunk got a coat of high heat paint and the Nitrous bottle was refilled. A new 6 foot feed line installed to replace the 20 footer since I'm not using a purge:
The carpeting was redone to surround the new stainless grill. Once the engine was up to operating temp, the bottle pressure guage reads 1050psi. NX recommends 1000-1050psi for best results from their jetting charts. I am currently using the 150HP setup but am planning to change to 100HP jets so I can reduce the timing retard on the MSD box and have the juice last longer:
I also did some work under the car, changing the plugs to new colder NGK TR6's. I ordered some copper header/collector gaskets as the old ones are starting to burn out. A minor oil drip turned out to be coming from the oil pan filler bolt, so a new copper washer was installed. Also added was another chassis to engine ground to serve as a backup. Lastly, a new 15390 fan belt was installed as the old one developed a cut when I was having issues with the alternator bracket. After a test drive, the ECM will need a little time to learn the fuel trim blocks but the idle and hot starting has improved.
Keeping an eye out for reasonably priced 16" rims to use with my set of Toyo 225/60/16 tires:
Brought the Roadster to the muffler shop Zoro that built the exhaust. I kept burning exhaust gaskets out, so they welded a new collector flange on and installed some copper gaskets for me at no charge.
While under the car, I noticed the Inboard passenger axle boot developed a split and started leaking, so I picked up a new one yesterday.
I also installed the LT4 Prom in the ECM to see if I can improve the idle a little - time will tell. It's been raining here a lot lately and I've been too busy to get more bodywork done. If I can get the newest project street legal in time, I will be bringing it - if that falls through, the Roadster is in the on-deck circle
Originally posted by Fiero2m8: I kept burning exhaust gaskets out, so they welded a new collector flange on and installed some copper gaskets for me at no charge.
I burned through 2 set of the blow proof aluminum ones before going to copper. It has been about a year now and the copper ones are holding just fine. I have tightened them up 2 times since they have been installed.
I am looking forward to seeing either one of your cars at the 25th!
Thanks Guru - sounds promising with the new locknuts I'm using.
Well I got a lot of apparel birthday gifts from the Fiero Store (hat, T-shirts, golf shirt and fleece) which is great since I didn't have any yet The big surprise was the FIERO2M8 personalized plates - they were ordered online 5-1/2 weeks ago, so I'm hoping they arrive soon, but unfortunately probably not in time for the 25th.
Just got back from the 25th and am now on vacation at the cottage till August 7th. Planning to swap the PROM chip when I get home and replace the torn axle boot. Hopefully will be able to bring the project to the SOFA show August 9th.
Thanks - back to the powertrain in the meantime. I decided to replace the ECM with a reman unit and just transferred the custom PROM:
The lower trunk got a coat of high heat paint and the Nitrous bottle was refilled. A new 6 foot feed line installed to replace the 20 footer since I'm not using a purge:
The carpeting was redone to surround the new stainless grill. Once the engine was up to operating temp, the bottle pressure guage reads 1050psi. NX recommends 1000-1050psi for best results from their jetting charts. I am currently using the 150HP setup but am planning to change to 100HP jets so I can reduce the timing retard on the MSD box and have the juice last longer:
I also did some work under the car, changing the plugs to new colder NGK TR6's. I ordered some copper header/collector gaskets as the old ones are starting to burn out. A minor oil drip turned out to be coming from the oil pan filler bolt, so a new copper washer was installed. Also added was another chassis to engine ground to serve as a backup. Lastly, a new 15390 fan belt was installed as the old one developed a cut when I was having issues with the alternator bracket. After a test drive, the ECM will need a little time to learn the fuel trim blocks but the idle and hot starting has improved.
Keeping an eye out for reasonably priced 16" rims to use with my set of Toyo 225/60/16 tires:
Ihave a spare set of 16 inch rims here at the house ff you want to see them come by
Thanks Joe - PM me a pic if possible - I'm interested.
hagans19 - got your PM but the reply didn't work. I don't think I'd build another roadster, but it was a good alternative to a choptop for me and a great learning experience. It did take quite a while to build but the reward chatting with others at local cruises has been fulfilling. I don't have a top planned other than a tonneau cover now that I have another Fiero to drive in the rain
Thanks Joe - PM me a pic if possible - I'm interested.
hagans19 - got your PM but the reply didn't work. I don't think I'd build another roadster, but it was a good alternative to a choptop for me and a great learning experience. It did take quite a while to build but the reward chatting with others at local cruises has been fulfilling. I don't have a top planned other than a tonneau cover now that I have another Fiero to drive in the rain
Ryan
I have the bareeta GT wheels and The 2002 sunfiregt wheels both are 16 inch
Ryan, It was nice to meet you and Erin at the 25th. I'm looking forward to seeing your roadster someday. .
Thanks, you too Dave! If I knew the weather was going to be so great in Michigan, I would have brought the Roadster (always next time though) Maybe next show I'll spent more time near my own car so we can talk more - I kept wandering off taking pics of the other 250+ Fieros! The Predator sure generated alot of questions and interest both at the show and here on the forum.
Bubbajoe - I think the Sunfire rims are 3 spoke as well but the Beretta GT rims sound interesting. Ryan
Thanks, you too Dave! If I knew the weather was going to be so great in Michigan, I would have brought the Roadster (always next time though) Maybe next show I'll spent more time near my own car so we can talk more - I kept wandering off taking pics of the other 250+ Fieros! The Predator sure generated alot of questions and interest both at the show and here on the forum.
Bubbajoe - I think the Sunfire rims are 3 spoke as well but the Beretta GT rims sound interesting. Ryan
A few updates but I haven't done much since I bought Bubbajoe's car and I this is my busiest time of year at work. I decided to part out some of the project to finance finishing the other car. Saturday I sold the Grand AM GT rims I was never really fond of anyways - here they are just before I removed them to get the rubber taken off them:
The only other Fiero rims I had left were the originals off the car, so back on they go. The picture angle doesn't show it but now I realize just how wide the fender flares are as the stock tires are so small in there:
As I was driving down my street at the speed limit I decided to see what would happen if I hit the throttle - it felt like the other tires did in the rain. (100 feet of two skinny tire marks - luckily I was pointed straight at the time)
Next to be put up for sale will be the Nitrous kit. I've only used 2 bottles since the rebuild, so I'm going to find an LT1 owner that is willing to swap intakes with me and buy the kit. I really don't need it and the Roadster's frame will not object to it being sold:
After that I don't know - a local friend is a Fiero nut and is bugging me to sell him the car without engine/trans as he wants to do a Nissan V6 swap. I've thought about selling the built LT1 or putting it in the newest project. I've also thought about selling the rebuilt 4T60 to someone wanting to upgrade their TH125c.
Anyways, I not making any quick decisions, the car is paid for and I've got a lot of time invested in it. Most of the money is in the drivetrain (engine $3,500, trans $2,500, nitrous direct port kit $2,500) The problem is that I really don't like having two projects, I'd much rather focus all my effort and energy into one - maybe take the best of both and make one?
Originally posted by Fiero2m8: Keeping an eye out for reasonably priced 16" rims to use with my set of Toyo 225/60/16 tires:
Yikes! You aren't going to be able to turn to full lock! Those are in the neighborhood of 26" tall! I have 25.5" tall on right now and they grind when at full lock under some conditions (195/65-15) That will be much more pronounced with taller wider tires!
I am interested in the MSD timer how mch are you asking for it.
I'll probably keep included with the Nitrous Kit. I was going to say half price of what I paid for it at the local speed shop here in Canada but for that money you can buy brand new from Summit here:
Originally posted by KurtAKX: Yikes! You aren't going to be able to turn to full lock! Those are in the neighborhood of 26" tall! I have 25.5" tall on right now and they grind when at full lock under some conditions (195/65-15) That will be much more pronounced with taller wider tires!
The 245/50/16's I just took off are 25.6" tall and I never had the problem you are describing. I've had the other tires on the car before without issue - I believe the increased height was offset by them being 2cm narrower. Anyways, the taller sidewall will improve my ground clearance issue and if they rub, I can always swap in taller front springs I have laying around.
I have been pulling my hair out trying to fix my NO START WHEN WARM condition with the LT1. So far no help from the www.CamaroZ28.com forum I guess it wouldn't hurt to post a copy here since this thread is in the Tech section. Here's what I posted there...
Hi Guys,
Long time lurker, first time poster since the search feature hasn't helped. I have a 1994 iron head LT1 in my Fiero that I built a couple years ago. It is 60 over, with forged pistons, new accel injectors, MSD Optispark, mild Nitrous friendly cam for the NX LT1-Pro Direct Pro 100-300 Nitrous kit. The rest of the recently rebuilt engine is stock except hugger headers. The ECM has been replaced (92/93 ODBI) and is using a Street and Performance custom chip and wiring harness.
This summer after no changes to the motor in a year, I developed a hard/no start condition when the engine is up to operating temp. I replaced the ICM and changed the NGK TR6 plugs to fresh TR55's. I thought it was grounds or charging system but none of those fixes have helped. I later discovered it is fuel related as a small spray of Quik Start on the K&N filter will cause the engine to start. Also the MSD digital - 6 box light shows spark during cranking and it starts fine when cold (using a powermaster 9004 starter and a OPTIMAX red top).
Could I possiby be getting vapour lock? The fuel pressure is good with key on and during cranking. I have tried both a stock LT1 PROM chip and the custom one and no change (the main difference is the custom chip helps the idle as I only have 12Hg/in at idle with the new cam).
The engine ran great for a couple years, so I don't know what has failed. The fuel pump is a Holley Walbro 255LPH. I have a GM Tech I scanner and no codes or unusual stuff seem to show up.
Help, as I'm running out of ideas and money and am considering parting out the powertrain. I can start it cold and drive around fine, but if I shut it off after it's warm it won't start on its own again until its cold.
Haynes manual says to check this when hard to start warm: 1. Air filter dirty - tried removing (no change) 2. Bad engine ground connection - added a second (no change) 3. Fuel not reaching the injectors - confirmed (no change) 4. Loose connection in the ignition system - tried omiting MSD box (no change)
New stuff I installed: 1. Fuel filter (no change) 2. Ignition Coil - (did run smoother on cold startup but didn't help when hot) 3. O2 sensors (no change) 4. New Battery (old one dies within 30 secs of cranking) 5. New full tank of fuel (no change)
Tests I ran: 1. Fuel Pressure (47psi when pump turned on then drops to 42 and holds) 2. Disconnected Nitrous line to ensure no fuel leakage into manifold (none) 3. Removed vacuum line from FPR to ensure no fuel leakage into manifold (none) 4. Tried retarding the timing 20 degrees during cranking under 500 rpm (no change) 5. Tried the suggestion with the key on 5 times for 5 secs each (no change) 6. Tried to start when hot with the pedal to the floor - flood clearing mode (no start)
I know that the problem is heat related but not sure it's heat internal to the engine or engine compartment heat - I did relocate the ICM and coil to a cooler spot away from the engine.
So after all that I've got nothing to show for it - same problem. Once its up to temp, I can shut it off and immediately restart usually with success. If it doesn't catch immediately or if I let it sit off a couple minutes, it's toast until the engine in left alone a 1/2 hour. Spraying a little Quik Start in the intake manifold is the only chance I have to start unless you wait the 1/2 hour. When I'm lucky and it does start, it idles and revs fine so it is only a starting issue.
I guess I'll just wait until someone posts for me to change my Optispark (for the 3rd time) or install a new CTS...
Where did you add your second ground? Maybe get out the ohm meter and check to see if the second ground even did anything... you still may have too much resistance with ignition components or maybe fuel injectors? Maybe visually inspect all connections and pull wire loom back to inspect areas?
I just reread what you wrote.. Im not a mechanic but maybe this makes sense to you or others...
you mentioned spraying that quick start stuff in your manifold and it usually starts up... this makes me think theres a fuel problem... even though you have fuel pressure to the rail, isnt that driven by the pump itself? The injectors still need to fire for the car to start, correct? So... you claim you have spark... but if your injectors arent firing maybe due to low voltage/high resistance or something due to heat, then it wont start... but put that qwik start stuff in and you have fuel and spark and it starts like a "carbed" engine... engine starts moving, alternator starts pumping up the volts/amps whatever and you have enough power to the injectors to keep running now?
I have no idea if thats logical or makes sense to others, but just an idea...
also, does your tach move when you're cranking?
[This message has been edited by doublec4 (edited 10-24-2008).]
I have been pulling my hair out trying to fix my NO START WHEN WARM condition with the LT1. So far no help from the www.CamaroZ28.com forum I guess it wouldn't hurt to post a copy here since this thread is in the Tech section. Here's what I posted there...
Hi Guys,
Long time lurker, first time poster since the search feature hasn't helped. I have a 1994 iron head LT1 in my Fiero that I built a couple years ago. It is 60 over, with forged pistons, new accel injectors, MSD Optispark, mild Nitrous friendly cam for the NX LT1-Pro Direct Pro 100-300 Nitrous kit. The rest of the recently rebuilt engine is stock except hugger headers. The ECM has been replaced (92/93 ODBI) and is using a Street and Performance custom chip and wiring harness.
This summer after no changes to the motor in a year, I developed a hard/no start condition when the engine is up to operating temp. I replaced the ICM and changed the NGK TR6 plugs to fresh TR55's. I thought it was grounds or charging system but none of those fixes have helped. I later discovered it is fuel related as a small spray of Quik Start on the K&N filter will cause the engine to start. Also the MSD digital - 6 box light shows spark during cranking and it starts fine when cold (using a powermaster 9004 starter and a OPTIMAX red top).
Could I possiby be getting vapour lock? The fuel pressure is good with key on and during cranking. I have tried both a stock LT1 PROM chip and the custom one and no change (the main difference is the custom chip helps the idle as I only have 12Hg/in at idle with the new cam).
The engine ran great for a couple years, so I don't know what has failed. The fuel pump is a Holley Walbro 255LPH. I have a GM Tech I scanner and no codes or unusual stuff seem to show up.
Help, as I'm running out of ideas and money and am considering parting out the powertrain. I can start it cold and drive around fine, but if I shut it off after it's warm it won't start on its own again until its cold.
Haynes manual says to check this when hard to start warm: 1. Air filter dirty - tried removing (no change) 2. Bad engine ground connection - added a second (no change) 3. Fuel not reaching the injectors - confirmed (no change) 4. Loose connection in the ignition system - tried omiting MSD box (no change)
New stuff I installed: 1. Fuel filter (no change) 2. Ignition Coil - (did run smoother on cold startup but didn't help when hot) 3. O2 sensors (no change) 4. New Battery (old one dies within 30 secs of cranking) 5. New full tank of fuel (no change)
Tests I ran: 1. Fuel Pressure (47psi when pump turned on then drops to 42 and holds) 2. Disconnected Nitrous line to ensure no fuel leakage into manifold (none) 3. Removed vacuum line from FPR to ensure no fuel leakage into manifold (none) 4. Tried retarding the timing 20 degrees during cranking under 500 rpm (no change) 5. Tried the suggestion with the key on 5 times for 5 secs each (no change) 6. Tried to start when hot with the pedal to the floor - flood clearing mode (no start)
I know that the problem is heat related but not sure it's heat internal to the engine or engine compartment heat - I did relocate the ICM and coil to a cooler spot away from the engine.
So after all that I've got nothing to show for it - same problem. Once its up to temp, I can shut it off and immediately restart usually with success. If it doesn't catch immediately or if I let it sit off a couple minutes, it's toast until the engine in left alone a 1/2 hour. Spraying a little Quik Start in the intake manifold is the only chance I have to start unless you wait the 1/2 hour. When I'm lucky and it does start, it idles and revs fine so it is only a starting issue.
I guess I'll just wait until someone posts for me to change my Optispark (for the 3rd time) or install a new CTS...
Cheers, Ryan
when it starts with q start after being hot you have vapor lock no ifs ands or buts when the heat gets upther in the engine bay it evaporates the fuel in the injecter lines it holds pressure but there is no liquid fuel to burn and no start as the engine cools the fuel re liquifies and it starts
Originally posted by doublec4: Where did you add your second ground? Also, does your tach move when you're cranking?
Grounds are Battery to frame and two Engine to frame. The tach does move while cranking.
quote
Originally posted by Fiero2m8: Could I possibly be getting vapour lock?
quote
Originally posted by bubbajoexxx: when it starts with q start after being hot you have vapor lock no ifs ands or buts when the heat gets upther in the engine bay it evaporates the fuel in the injecter lines it holds pressure but there is no liquid fuel to burn and no start as the engine cools the fuel re liquifies and it starts
Well, I am leaning towards that too although it's doing it in this cool weather after running 5 minutes with the decklid open. Other logical issue is this didn't happen for two years of driving until one day something broke and stranded me at the LCBO The Camaro forum guys are leaning towards a cheap ICM I bought at Parts Source instead of the AC Delco one.
