After the 7730 conversion, I have a battery drain now? Can anyone think of anything from the conversion that would cause that, I am still trying to trace it down.
What you should do is get yourself an ammeter (most digital volt-ohm meters have this function) that can read up to 5 - 10amp loads. but also display amp draw in at least hundredths of an amp. Hook the ammeter between your battery pos terminal and the battery pos cable. The ammeter should show the amount of amps being drawn from the battery. Normal draw for most cars with on-board computers should be less than 0.300 amps if I remember correctly. If you see more than this, then you should start pulling fuses/disconnecting devices until you find which circuit is drawing a load.
I have seen ECMs go bad and cause this problem (they fail to completely shut down). This problem could also be caused by something being incorrectly wired.
ok scratch my rush. jons somewhat sloppy wiring job for the 3500 w/ 7730 has turned in the other direction from good to WTF?? haha. fuel injection fuses randomly stopped popping, not sure how it all will work now, but i am going to test it all out after work. and i am currently building me a cleaner more practical 7730 conversion harness that will work on the 3500.
he had so many wires of the same color that it was hard to tell what was what when a problem arose. and then his method of connecting the wires was pretty bad too. IMO, it needs to be more than just twisted together and tapped a lil bit better. heat shrunk too. any tips for making a new harness? and the connections? i was thinking of twisting the wires together and soldering them, then covering the joints with liquid electrical tape, heat shrinking that, then covering it with electrical tape.
i guess thats the difference between an electronic tech and a mechanic. but he never intended to get rid of that car. so im going to build a harness i can understand. ------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor
[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 09-15-2008).]
ok scratch my rush. jons somewhat sloppy wiring job for the 3500 w/ 7730 has turned in the other direction from good to WTF?? haha. fuel injection fuses randomly stopped popping, not sure how it all will work now, but i am going to test it all out after work. and i am currently building me a cleaner more practical 7730 conversion harness that will work on the 3500.
he had so many wires of the same color that it was hard to tell what was what when a problem arose. and then his method of connecting the wires was pretty bad too. IMO, it needs to be more than just twisted together and tapped a lil bit better. heat shrunk too. any tips for making a new harness? and the connections? i was thinking of twisting the wires together and soldering them, then covering the joints with liquid electrical tape, heat shrinking that, then covering it with electrical tape.
i guess thats the difference between an electronic tech and a mechanic. but he never intended to get rid of that car. so im going to build a harness i can understand.
They make heat shrink tubing that has heat-activated adhesive sealer on the inside. When you heat the tubing up to shrink it, this "glue" activates and seals the connection. I use this stuff on critical connections or where connections are going to be subjected to exposure to moisture.
As far as the actual wiring connection, I strip off about 1/2 to 5/8" of the insulation on both wires I am connecting together. I then lay the wires end to end and overlap the stripped portions. I then twist them together as good as possible without producing a "bulk" area that the shrink tubing won't slide over. I then solder the connection and then slide the shrink tubing over that and apply heat to seal the connection.
They make heat shrink tubing that has heat-activated adhesive sealer on the inside. When you heat the tubing up to shrink it, this "glue" activates and seals the connection. I use this stuff on critical connections or where connections are going to be subjected to exposure to moisture.
As far as the actual wiring connection, I strip off about 1/2 to 5/8" of the insulation on both wires I am connecting together. I then lay the wires end to end and overlap the stripped portions. I then twist them together as good as possible without producing a "bulk" area that the shrink tubing won't slide over. I then solder the connection and then slide the shrink tubing over that and apply heat to seal the connection.
-ryan
i used some of that in the AIMD shop when i was stationed in corpus. but it was solder and not glue. is there any that is glue and solder? that would rock.
do you see any problems with the solder melting and the connections coming loose in the engine bay near the headers and/or the coolant lines?
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor
any suggestion for all of us on underhood tape? jon used some kind of heat sheilding that obviously wasnt ment for wiring harnesses. then wrapped in header wrap. didnt seem to work too well.
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor
i used some of that in the AIMD shop when i was stationed in corpus. but it was solder and not glue. is there any that is glue and solder? that would rock.
do you see any problems with the solder melting and the connections coming loose in the engine bay near the headers and/or the coolant lines?
I've never had a solder joint melt in any engine compartment. But then again I do take steps to protect the wiring when near high heat sources such as the exhaust. The coolant lines don't get hot enough to melt solder.
any suggestion for all of us on underhood tape? jon used some kind of heat sheilding that obviously wasnt ment for wiring harnesses. then wrapped in header wrap. didnt seem to work too well.
You CAN use regular PVC electrical tape. But this stuff is usually only rated for 176degF max temps. So if you use it you should put wire loom over your connections/wires (which you should do anyway). There is higher temp electrical tape out there but it is pretty expensive. Personally I've never had a problem with the regulator electrical tape as long as I cover all my wires with wire loom.
Speaking of wire loom, make sure you get the good stuff (should have a green or blue stripe). The cheap stuff autozone sells will melt in the engine compartment. The stuff I use is rated to 275 deg F and is flame resistant. You can get this stuff as well as pretty much anything else you need for your electrical work here: http://www.wiringproducts.com/
thanks for the link, and the many others you have provided me. maybe it was just jons way he taped everything up that has just had me worried about a lot of this. and we have been using that cheap loom from autozone. one section of it melted against the coolant line going to the motor.
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor
doesnt this ecm retain the shift up light? i would like mine to come on, and if it is programmable on when to come on, i would like it if possible to come on for economy and then under WOT for it to come on as a shift light at just a bit shy of my rev limiter. since my engine digs deep into the red on my tach. or to come on at a good point to shift according to my power band. i could go on and on for this but ill leave it alone until more information is gathered on my engine and if the shift light idea is possible on the 7730.
oh ryan, is that speedo circuit is required?
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor
doesnt this ecm retain the shift up light? i would like mine to come on, and if it is programmable on when to come on, i would like it if possible to come on for economy and then under WOT for it to come on as a shift light at just a bit shy of my rev limiter. since my engine digs deep into the red on my tach. or to come on at a good point to shift according to my power band. i could go on and on for this but ill leave it alone until more information is gathered on my engine and if the shift light idea is possible on the 7730.
oh ryan, is that speedo circuit is required?
The speedo circuit has been addressed earlier in this thread -- please go back and find it as it was explained in great detail what can be done with it.
Yes this ECM can control the upshift light. I do know it works at part throttle but I'm not sure if the tuning software I have can make it work at full throttle as you want it to -- I will have to look into that.
another question. and im sure this one has been on a few peoples mind, where to get new wire of the same color code? I.E. blk/wht and others of that nature.
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor
i used some of that in the AIMD shop when i was stationed in corpus. but it was solder and not glue. is there any that is glue and solder? that would rock.
do you see any problems with the solder melting and the connections coming loose in the engine bay near the headers and/or the coolant lines?
Solder melts at above 500-700 degrees depending on mixture of lead to tin. So finding a heat shrink with solder and glue willl be impossible. Solder melting near the engine is a non issue unless the car catches fire or the wire is laying directly in contact with an exaust pipe or manifold.
i strongly suggest Silver bearing solder due to it's higher corrosion resistance. and NEVER EVER use plumbing solder on electrical connections. use Electronic/wire solder with a non reactive flux. Plumbing solder has an ACID flux that will corrode that connection.
If you do not want to solder you can use these. http://happyterminals.com/i...p?cPath=21_39_96_109 I use them on boats, bikes, cars. they work great IF you get a very good crimper. Using the crappy crimper you get at an auto store will not work. I use a ratcheting crimper. when you heat hem up they shrink down and ooze the sealing goo as well. making a very good connection.
Note: that link also has weatherpak connectors. If you want anything to disconnect, use those. they work awesome.
[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 09-17-2008).]
If you do not want to solder you can use these. http://happyterminals.com/i...p?cPath=21_39_96_109 I use them on boats, bikes, cars. they work great IF you get a very good crimper. Using the crappy crimper you get at an auto store will not work. I use a ratcheting crimper. when you heat hem up they shrink down and ooze the sealing goo as well. making a very good connection.
Those work great but they are bulky. So if you are making a lot of wiring connections in a small area and try to use these types of connectors, you are going to end up with a pretty big bulk you have to deal with. BUT, these are very useful when trying to splice large wires such as the 8-10 ga size wires that run to the alternator and starter solenoid.
another question. and im sure this one has been on a few peoples mind, where to get new wire of the same color code? I.E. blk/wht and others of that nature.
Good luck with that. I haven't been able to find resonably priced "automotive grade" wiring except at the junkyard. I would stay away from the stuff autozone and the other parts stores sell because the last time I used this stuff the insulation on it had a relatively low melting point. The automotive grade wiring's insulation does not melt when you are soldering wires together, so it's pretty good stuff.
I would suggest using wire from another wiring harness. When I swapped in the V6, I kept the old 4-cyl wiring harness for this reason. It came in handy during the 7730 ECM swap.
I also wanted to ask about something. On the 7730 ECM, pin D12 is labeled "A/C pressure switch signal". And in the description it says "optional; hook up to high side A/C pressure switch; activates coolant fan output when A/C press is hi". Just to be thorough, I decided to hook up the output from the low-side pressure switch on my V5 compressor to this wire. That's the switch that activates the A/C clutch when the refrigerant pressure is high enough. Unfortunately, this confused the ECM. The ECM thought that the A/C was on all the time, even when it was off... which resulted in a high (and unstable) idle with the A/C off. After disconnecting that wire, everything worked fine. The radiator fan comes on with the A/C anyway, so the fan request line was redundant.
Since the fan request line is redundant, I don't plan to re-attach it. But I'm just curious what I was doing wrong. And maybe by posting this, I can save someone else from having to deal with this.
one last thing before i go hit hay, how do you remove these kind of pins? i dont want to tug so hard it rips the wire out. i didnt find anything from searching.
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor
[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 09-18-2008).]
First of all, you have to open the back end of the connector, so the wires can slide out. Then, you insert a special tool (shaped like a hollow tube) over the end of the pin to release the tabs. If you can find some tubing (it'll need to be metal or hard plastic) in the right size, that may work too.
Here's what the special tool looks like: LINK (near the bottom of the page)
Originally posted by Darth Fiero: If you are installing the knock sensor into a coolant drain port, then you should use some liquid teflon paste thread sealant on the threads. DO NOT use teflon tape! -ryan
Curious about something. I bought the knock sensor and it has a dried red/brown paste on it. Is this some kind of sealer?
First of all, you have to open the back end of the connector, so the wires can slide out. Then, you insert a special tool (shaped like a hollow tube) over the end of the pin to release the tabs. If you can find some tubing (it'll need to be metal or hard plastic) in the right size, that may work too.
Here's what the special tool looks like: LINK (near the bottom of the page)
yea i know that. i undid it and they didnt come right out like i figured they would. if i can find a newer smaller connector with the right amount of pins and some new crimp on pins, i will just use that instead.
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor
hey i think i found the problem pin BC12 had a brake in it where it was spliced into BC11 WOULD THIS HAVE CAUSED A NO RUN issue? Be sure to check these factory splices eveyone. (edit-- it wasent the problem but good to catch)
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 09-20-2008).]
nevermind, big obvious screw up on my part. i need coffee. or sleep.
EDIT: ok, i had my sleep. then a dr pepper. im confused on the A/C pressure sensor terminals. what does this connector look like? it looks like it needs to be a 3 pin connector, but the only A/C ones i can identify are two single wire terminals and a 2 wire terminal.
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor
[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 09-21-2008).]
well the ac isnt important at the moment since i need to figure out how to convert this wiring to the newer compressors. but here is a picture of the 7730 harnes conversion finished. this comes this nicely from taking your time.
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor
Hey ive been reading this for a long time and i was wondering are there any ecm swaps that would be for OBD2 and that could run the 4T60E or similar electronic trany as well as DIS. It dosn't need to be OBD2 per say but i would like the tuneability of it.
------------------ "If i wanted your opinion, I would have Given it to you."
86 White GT 88 Red Notchback (Getting changed to GT and n*) And about 14 other Fieros ( Me and my dad are the self proclaimed Fiero Kings of CO) 74 Camaro Z28 Type LT
ill let ryan step in for this subject of OBD II. you will understand the reason for the choice of the 7730 on my motor rather than a OBD II ECM that would work for this motor.
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor
Hey ive been reading this for a long time and i was wondering are there any ecm swaps that would be for OBD2 and that could run the 4T60E or similar electronic trany as well as DIS. It dosn't need to be OBD2 per say but i would like the tuneability of it.
First off OBD2 computers will only work with DIS type ignition systems; and the engine must also have the additional crank sensor that is behind the crank balancer as well as the cam sensor. If your engine does not have these items, you cannot use an OBD2 computer. To answer your question, yes, the OBD2 computer will control a 4T60E transmission. I have programming available for a 3100 V6 4T60-E application that already has VATS disabled from the factory (1998 Grand Prix).
Newer OBD2 computers are compatible with the 4T40-E/4T45-E and 4T65-E transmissions; but these newer computers have VATS security that cannot be easily bypassed. These newer V6 computers that use PassKey 3, PassKey 3+, and PassLock VATS systems CANNOT be reprogrammed to disable these security systems with the tuning software that is currently available; I've tried.
Now there is another OBD1 computer option available if you want to use a 4T60-E transmission. The 1993 Lumina (and other W-body cars) was available with a 3.1L DIS V6 engine and a 4T60-E transmission. The computer used in these cars used the $DF code mask (same as 91-93 3.4 DOHC) and did NOT use the additional crank sensor nor a cam sensor. This is an underhood type computer (like the 1227727) but still had a removable chip. You MUST have DIS on your engine if you want to use this computer.
-ryan
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 09-22-2008).]
i used some of that in the AIMD shop when i was stationed in corpus. but it was solder and not glue. is there any that is glue and solder? that would rock.
Yes a Fusion Solder Splice has the solder and the "glue" at each end:
There are other companies (like 3M) that have similar splices.
im such a nerd......
your getting mad kudos, gold stars, or a few A+'s for that. and other useful info i have gathered from you before. ------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor
[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 09-22-2008).]
Originally posted by americasfuture2k: im confused on the A/C pressure sensor terminals. what does this connector look like? it looks like it needs to be a 3 pin connector, but the only A/C ones i can identify are two single wire terminals and a 2 wire terminal.
no idea, the harness is from a 86 4spd v6. and i have whatever compressor comes on the 06 malibu 3500 LX9
ive been doing a lot of searching and i think i have the compressor model number. its a AC Delco 15-21135.
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor
[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 09-23-2008).]
No wonder the wiring connectors don't match... LOL. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with that engine. So I can't help you with that. You could try the 60degreeV6 forum.
Good luck with that. I haven't been able to find resonably priced "automotive grade" wiring except at the junkyard. I would stay away from the stuff autozone and the other parts stores sell because the last time I used this stuff the insulation on it had a relatively low melting point. The automotive grade wiring's insulation does not melt when you are soldering wires together, so it's pretty good stuff.
Here you go by the foot, haven't ordered any yet because I'm not sure what gauge to get for best current flow to and from sensors without over doing it;
I recently did the 7730 ecm swap with my 3100/4t60E (manually shifted) swap. I spliced in the correct connector and changed the vss road speed constant in the chip(24000ppm) so the ecm reads the correct speed. My problem is that the speedometer is way off. At about 20mph the speedo is pegged. Do you have any idea to fix this problem so my speedo works accuately?
