well if thats the case, then it must be my crank sensor. ive verified that there is power. the crank sensor wires are fine. i have a replacement crank sensor that i just need to install. we will see where that takes me.
replacing the crank sensor made it fire right up! but that cheapo sensor didnt last too long. drove about a half mile and it died at 711. didnt see any movement in the tach. so im guessing that cheapo crank sensor blew out. im going to by a AC Delco one tomarrow. i sure hope that was the issue this time. im almost positive it is.
For what its worth to anyone, got my PROM back from Ryan today, plugged it in, hooked up the battery and turned the key. Started up right away and evened out to a nice smooth idle. This is a mostly stock '87 .8 GT and I must say that the throtle does seem a little more responsive. I am going to check my timing (as suggested) but so far no CEL. My greatful thanks to Ryan and this great write-up. Highly suggested. This ECM should have come stock with these cars.
Okay, had the chance to drive the "87 GT with the new 7730 ECM in place for approx.50-60 miles at speeds approaching 90 MPH and CEL came on. Checked for and found code 24 which is VSS signal. I haven't had a chance to check all my wirring connections yet but I'm guessing this might have something to do with the PROM programming specifications I gave Ryan. I had him code for stock wheel and tire size (215/60R15) whereas I now have 235/45R17's on the car. Ryan, maybe you can confirm this?
Okay, had the chance to drive the "87 GT with the new 7730 ECM in place for approx.50-60 miles at speeds approaching 90 MPH and CEL came on. Checked for and found code 24 which is VSS signal. I haven't had a chance to check all my wirring connections yet but I'm guessing this might have something to do with the PROM programming specifications I gave Ryan. I had him code for stock wheel and tire size (215/60R15) whereas I now have 235/45R17's on the car. Ryan, maybe you can confirm this?
Tire size differences should not make the code 24 set. Code 24 usually only sets if the ECM doesn't see a Valid (reasonably accurate) speed sensor signal. Is your speedo running off the 7730 ECM (via a speedo conversion circuit), or do you simply have the ECM's VSS wires spliced into the existing VSS wiring in the Fiero?
If you have the Fiero speedo running off the 7730 ECM and the speedo is working, then you probably have either a hardware issue with the ECM or there is a problem with the programming on the chip. In any case, I would like you to verify with some scan tool data so we can see what the computer is showing for vehicle speed in relation to what your speedometer says.
If you simply have the 7730 ECM's VSS input wires spliced into the existing Fiero VSS wiring, then you should check all connections and make sure the correct Fiero VSS wires are connected to the proper terminal locations on the 7730 ECM connectors. If everything checks out, you should then hook up a scan tool to the ECM and see what it is reporting for vehicle speed and how that compares with the speedometer.
Obviously I wasn't as careful of my rewirring as I thought I was. Ryan, it turns out I had the purple and yellow VSS wires which belong in BB9 and BB10 in positions BB3 and BB4 at the ECU connector. Thanks again for your help. Can I getcha a beer?
After looking through all the comments for this post (which by the way was very interesting but very time consumming), I'm still a little confused about reprogramming. If I get a 7730 from a 1990-1992 F-body car with a stock chip that had a 3.1L V6 and make the necessaty wiring changes as described in the thread, do I still need to reprogram the chip, if I put it in an 87 GT?
If I do have to reprogram, where do I get it done and how much would it cost?
Thanks for all your help. It's a great thread! Marty
------------------ ============================= 1987 GT Owner 1984 Honda XL350R Owner Love 'em both
After looking through all the comments for this post (which by the way was very interesting but very time consumming), I'm still a little confused about reprogramming. If I get a 7730 from a 1990-1992 F-body car with a stock chip that had a 3.1L V6 and make the necessaty wiring changes as described in the thread, do I still need to reprogram the chip, if I put it in an 87 GT?
If I do have to reprogram, where do I get it done and how much would it cost?
Thanks for all your help. It's a great thread! Marty
Hey Marty, the short answer to your question is YES, you will still need to get the Camaro/Firebird 3.1 chip reprogrammed to work in the Fiero application. If to do nothing more than disable the VATS (pass-key) security all F-bodies of that era had. Theoretically, if you had a 3.1 with the same size injectors and same specs as the 90-92 F-body 3.1, then the rest of the chip programming could be left stock. Although you may need to do something about the A/C pressure switch/input in order to make the fan output this ECM provides to function correctly.
Basically it is just better to have the chip from this ECM reprogrammed for your specific application so you know everything will work correctly.
Thanks for your quick response, Ryan. You can tell by the number of pages in this thread that this is a hot topic. You've done a great job with it.
My 87 GT is stock so it looks like if I take the plunge and get a 7730 that I will have to get the chip reprogrammed. I'm assummimg your shop can do that! If that's so, when I take the plunge, I'll be in contact.
Thanks for all your attention and help, Marty
------------------ ============================= 1987 GT Owner 1984 Honda XL350R Owner Love 'em both
Thanks for your quick response, Ryan. You can tell by the number of pages in this thread that this is a hot topic. You've done a great job with it.
My 87 GT is stock so it looks like if I take the plunge and get a 7730 that I will have to get the chip reprogrammed. I'm assummimg your shop can do that! If that's so, when I take the plunge, I'll be in contact.
I finally got all of it in. I installed the 7730 ('92 F-body) and the Digital EGR in a "stock" '87 GT. I'll put the Digital cruise in next. The car seems to be running okay, but I think it is still learning. I took it for a 100 mile trip and just near the end of the trip I had a code 32 set. I am assuming that this is the EGR as is was with the Fiero computer. Everything worked fine for nearly 100 miles then a problem. Thoughts? Everything appears to be hooked up correctly. There is a small chance that there is a leak in the tube between the EGR nd the intake. I have a new one on the way just in case.
I finally got all of it in. I installed the 7730 ('92 F-body) and the Digital EGR in a "stock" '87 GT. I'll put the Digital cruise in next. The car seems to be running okay, but I think it is still learning. I took it for a 100 mile trip and just near the end of the trip I had a code 32 set. I am assuming that this is the EGR as is was with the Fiero computer. Everything worked fine for nearly 100 miles then a problem. Thoughts? Everything appears to be hooked up correctly. There is a small chance that there is a leak in the tube between the EGR nd the intake. I have a new one on the way just in case.
Thank you.
Yes, the code 32 is for the EGR on the 7730 ECM as well. However, the conditions for setting the EGR codes with the Digital EGR Valve are different than stock Fiero. The 7730 ECM runs a check on the EGR valve while you decelerate from a highway speed. It opens each of the EGR ports during this check and looks to see if manifold vacuum changes. If the EGR is functioning normally, the ECM should see the manifold vacuum decrease slightly during deceleration any time one or more of the EGR ports is commanded open. If you have a leak in the EGR tube, this may prevent the manifold vacuum from changing as the ECM predicts it should, and thus the code 32 will set. If you suspect such a leak, it would be a good idea to find and fix that issue. Of course it is also possible you have one or more ports on your EGR valve that are obstructed or not flowing as they should. Furthermore, when using the digital EGR valve, you do NOT need to use the EGR tube gasket that has the restrictor hole in it (as is needed with the stock Fiero EGR system). If you are using this gasket, it COULD interfere with this diagnostic check.
Yes, the code 32 is for the EGR on the 7730 ECM as well. However, the conditions for setting the EGR codes with the Digital EGR Valve are different than stock Fiero. The 7730 ECM runs a check on the EGR valve while you decelerate from a highway speed. It opens each of the EGR ports during this check and looks to see if manifold vacuum changes. If the EGR is functioning normally, the ECM should see the manifold vacuum decrease slightly during deceleration any time one or more of the EGR ports is commanded open. If you have a leak in the EGR tube, this may prevent the manifold vacuum from changing as the ECM predicts it should, and thus the code 32 will set. If you suspect such a leak, it would be a good idea to find and fix that issue. Of course it is also possible you have one or more ports on your EGR valve that are obstructed or not flowing as they should. Furthermore, when using the digital EGR valve, you do NOT need to use the EGR tube gasket that has the restrictor hole in it (as is needed with the stock Fiero EGR system). If you are using this gasket, it COULD interfere with this diagnostic check.
-ryan
Thank you Ryan. I did clean out the ports before I installed it however the other issues could be true. I plan on installing the braided EGR tube from The Fiero Store and I will make sure that I open up the gasket to eliminate flow restriction.
One more quick question. I printed off a copy of your cruise control wiring connections for my digital cruise installation. I understand what to do with each of the 9 wires in the back but what is: . "Brake Lamp Input N.O. G WHT Connect to → ? Terminal "30" of the Relay" . Also, are the 10 wires on the cruise module (in the engine bay) the only rewiring required? No wiring changes to the module near the drivers feet?
Thank you Ryan. I did clean out the ports before I installed it however the other issues could be true. I plan on installing the braided EGR tube from The Fiero Store and I will make sure that I open up the gasket to eliminate flow restriction.
One more quick question. I printed off a copy of your cruise control wiring connections for my digital cruise installation. I understand what to do with each of the 9 wires in the back but what is: . "Brake Lamp Input N.O. G WHT Connect to → ? Terminal "30" of the Relay"
You will need to obtain and wire up a 12v relay as the instructions describe. This relay provides the second brake switch input signal to the cruise module using the existing brake signal that goes to the OE Fiero cruise system.
quote
. Also, are the 10 wires on the cruise module (in the engine bay) the only rewiring required? No wiring changes to the module near the drivers feet?
Thanks again!
Paul
The instructions should explain that you will need to splice some wires together at the OE Fiero cruise module (by the driver's feet) and remove the Fiero module after you are done. If you don't have instructions that explain this, let me know via email (sp1@gmtuners.com) and I'll make sure you get the correct instructions sent to you.
The instructions should explain that you will need to splice some wires together at the OE Fiero cruise module (by the driver's feet) and remove the Fiero module after you are done. If you don't have instructions that explain this, let me know via email (sp1@gmtuners.com) and I'll make sure you get the correct instructions sent to you.
-ryan
Thank you again Ryan. I am an idiot. I get it now. Piece of cake.
I just read through this whole thread again/now... very expensive (I took a day off to get this stuff figured out in a hurry).
Anyway, I'm not going to use a 3.4pr as I mentioned earlier in the thread, but I'm still going to use the '730, now with a DIS V6. It would be great if someone could verify this for me... Can use the DIS conversion pinout (92 Beretta 3.1) to run $8F (TGP) code with no other ECU wiring changes?
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 06-04-2009).]
No worries there, it's a TGP 3.1 (Gen II) with a Gen III top end. I just need my question's answer verified, for now I'm assuming (vaguely from what I've read) that this will work.
For anyone thats done this ecm swap with DIS what have you done to get your a/c working? Im thinking of trying to adapt a cavalier compressor since thats what my motor is from.
Hey, I'm doing this swap with a 3.4 and DIS. Question, where is the A/C pressure sensor?? I can't find it for the life of me. Can Someone show me a picture?
Its on one of the hard lines that attaches to the compressor i believe. I think it might be easiest to cut and have the sensor re weleded into the stock lines.
Here's the deal on the A/C pressure sensor (only applies to those of you using the DIS; distributor cars don't need one with this ECM conversion).
The code mask ($A1) used in the 1227730 / 1227727 ECM that works with DIS is configured to read a pressure reading directly from the hi-side of the A/C system using a 3-wire sensor (other systems use a 2-wire switch). On the donor car (you get the 7730/7727 ECM from), the A/C pressure sensor can be found screwed into the hi-side line somewhere between the A/C compressor and the orifice tube (expansion valve) which is before the evaporator core.
1993 - earlier GM cars used R12 refrigerant like the Fiero. If you get an A/C pressure sensor from one of these cars you can install it directly onto the stock Fiero's hi-side pressure test port (front compartment). But there's a catch... The Fiero's test port does not have a groove machined in it to accept the sealing o-ring this sensor uses. So what you will need to do is use 2 o-ring seals (for the A/C pressure sensor) and install them both onto the Fiero fitting first then screw on the A/C pressure sensor. The 2nd O-ring (the one that goes on first) helps keep the one you install last in place during installation that will actually do the sealing. I recommend only installing the hi-side sensor by hand. If you want to tighten it up using a wrench, you can; but take great care in doing so. The threads this sensor attaches to are very thin and will break easily if the sensor is over tightened. Check for leaks (after system is charged) using soapy water around the sensor/fitting. If you get bubbles (indicating a leak), remove the sensor, check the o-rings, and try reinstalling again. Proper fitment of the o-ring into the sensor is tricky but I have gotten it to work in every case I have tried it.
Now, if you want you can have a hi-side test port for the A/C pressure sensor installed into the A/C lines back by the compressor. This will require some welding and some A/C shops should be able to help with this. If you are going to use R-134a refrigerant in your car, you might as well have an R-134a fitting installed so you can use the A/C pressure sensor from a 1994-newer car; which are easier to find.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
My a/c right now is completely unconnected since the lines are disconnected where they attach at the drivers side firewall. So would it be easiest to try and install the sensor upfront like you first mentioned or take my compressor off and have the sensor weleded in? Do you have and pictures of the front compartment mounting method by any chance?
My a/c right now is completely unconnected since the lines are disconnected where they attach at the drivers side firewall. So would it be easiest to try and install the sensor upfront like you first mentioned or take my compressor off and have the sensor weleded in? Do you have and pictures of the front compartment mounting method by any chance?
Thanks.
Better to have a sensor fitting welded into the rear A/C lines that attach to the back of the compressor. That way you can use a fitting that is designed for an o-ring seal and connection for a A/C pressure sensor.
I actually snapped the stock R12 hi-side test port fitting off my stock Fiero line by accident. So I welded one on from an R134-A car that had the groove in it for the sensor o-ring.
So the older style would be a 3 wire setup or we could have the lines cut and rewelded to use the new r-134a sensor? That doesnt look to be as hard as i assumed.
So the older style would be a 3 wire setup or we could have the lines cut and rewelded to use the new r-134a sensor? That doesnt look to be as hard as i assumed.
GM made the 3-wire sensor in both R12 and R134a versions (different threads and size). You can have a fitting welded into your lines that connect to the back of the A/C compressor. Or you can see about getting an R12 sensor to seal up to your Fiero's hi-side test port using the method I mentioned earlier.
I got my a/c sensor today and as i was checking out how it went on and i can visualize the two o ring idea now i was wondering would using teflon tape on the threads help seal it up even better? I dont know if it will work right or not but im assuming it would.
I got my a/c sensor today and as i was checking out how it went on and i can visualize the two o ring idea now i was wondering would using teflon tape on the threads help seal it up even better? I dont know if it will work right or not but im assuming it would.
Teflon tape won't do anything. These are not pipe threads. The o-ring does the sealing.
GOT to be one of THE BEST engine performance upgrades I've done to my "mostly stock" 87GT 2.8! Five months now, and NO problems (except one of my own wiring mistakes which was very easily fixed) Ryan, just wanted to say Thank You, again.
Do you know off hand if this ECM will work on a 2002 N*? I know they made changes on the DIS but not sure what the exact changes were. If there is specific info you require to answer the question I would be more than happy to research it.
I don't remember if this was covered or not, but can the 7730 ECM be programmed to control a heated O2 sensor? Due to the long-tube headers and a slightly rich AFR, my ECM is spending a lot of time in open-loop mode.
I don't remember if this was covered or not, but can the 7730 ECM be programmed to control a heated O2 sensor? Due to the long-tube headers and a slightly rich AFR, my ECM is spending a lot of time in open-loop mode.
The 7730 will not actually control a heated O2 sensor. But it will work with one. If you install a heated O2 sensor, you will need to wire up the O2 sensor's heater circuit to switched power and ground.
OK, thanks. I've read a couple DIY projects where they spliced the heating element into the fuel pump circuit. So I'll probably just do that.
I wouldn't. Just wire it up to an existing 12v + switched IGN power source such as the backup lights power feed or the EGR solenoid power feed. This way you can turn the key on and let the O2 sensor pre-heat before you start the engine which can aid in cold startup fuel tuning.
I just had Ryan do this same conversion for me (the 4t440 and 7730) and it was well worth it. The engine just seems to run much better now, and the transmission swap is great. I had a 3.33 rebuilt, and am very pleased. The acceleration doesn't seem to be hampered at all, and I am turning about 2200 rpm at 75mph! Much better than the 3300 before! I'll have some fuel economy numbers after a trip to the Colts game this weekend! I would highly recommend this to anyone thinking about it. The two combined really make the car feel more modern and enhance driveability!
