It never occurred to me till now, but check out the 16197427. With the $0D code. Iv'e been using it on my Van. It just clicked that since it was also used by the 4.3 V6, in both Stick and 4L60-E, Uses a distributor and vacuum EGR just like the Fiero. There is no compatibility issues with using it on a Fiero's 2.8. Its just a simple re-pin, and program. But even better, it also has a "TCC only" transmission option, so it can run a non electronic automatic just as well. This code is fully hacked and commented, and some people even have a version that runs MAF.
The ECM comes from practically all 94-95 GM trucks and Vans, and is identical to 16196395 and 161968625.
One thing to note, it is used to driving two TBI injectors. I don't believe it would have any trouble with 6 MPFI injectors.
It never occurred to me till now, but check out the 16197427. With the $0D code. But even better, it also has a "TCC only" transmission option, so it can run a non electronic automatic just as well.
I'm not sure about this one. The $0D code and PCMs were always used with electronic auto transmissions (4L60-E and 4L80-E). I've never seen one used with a non-electronic auto trans nor a manual trans (those used different/older-type computers) in a factory application. So even though you found a "TCC only" option in the programming, it may not work due to the logic of the computer looking for more inputs from the trans (such as the gear pressure switches, temp sensor, and such). Of course it would need to be tried to see if it indeed does or does not work before we can say 100% one way or the other.
I frequent FSC (Full Size Chevy) Forum. These guys use this code for everything under the sun. The Electronic trans Vs "TCC only" transmission flag is well known to work fine on this code. I believe I have found a few trucks that appear to have a manual, and run this code, Specifically 4.3L 94-95 C10 Trucks with the MG5 Transmission. Strangely enough, The SBC's used an old C3 ECM in the same application with the same transmission.
But with $0E I can find quite a few, specifically ones P series trucks with big blocks, and a few 4.3's. $0E also uses the same computer. But is a bit less well known of a code, even though its only slightly different from $0D. It was specifically built to control the 4L80-E.
Because the connectors come out the bottom the ECM, It even fits in the factory computer holder for the V6 computers. My favorite part is that it can control a modern 4L60-E, which means a 4T60-E isn't out of the question. And... I have had no problem putting this computer into diagnostic manual control, shifting the transmission via aldl cable, Potentially opening up the possibility of doing paddle shifters with a simple serial communication module.
I frequent FSC (Full Size Chevy) Forum. These guys use this code for everything under the sun. The Electronic trans Vs "TCC only" transmission flag is well known to work fine on this code. I believe I have found a few trucks that appear to have a manual, and run this code, Specifically 4.3L 94-95 C10 Trucks with the MG5 Transmission. Strangely enough, The SBC's used an old C3 ECM in the same application with the same transmission.
That's cool. I wasn't sure if it would work or not because I never tried it and I've run into a couple of instances in the past where options/switches have been available in the programming to change and did not always work as advertised.
quote
But with $0E I can find quite a few, specifically ones P series trucks with big blocks, and a few 4.3's. $0E also uses the same computer. But is a bit less well known of a code, even though its only slightly different from $0D. It was specifically built to control the 4L80-E.
Because the connectors come out the bottom the ECM, It even fits in the factory computer holder for the V6 computers. My favorite part is that it can control a modern 4L60-E, which means a 4T60-E isn't out of the question. And... I have had no problem putting this computer into diagnostic manual control, shifting the transmission via aldl cable, Potentially opening up the possibility of doing paddle shifters with a simple serial communication module.
If you want to try this PCM out, by all means, give it a shot. Let us know how it works. If nothing else, it could end up being another option.
My Fiero's are 3.4 DOHC and 3800 S2SC. So I can't try it... I'll see if I can find someone locally who is willing to experiment.
And, I too have played with codes that have switches that don't work as advertised. Mainly on my 94-95 3.4 DOHC's computer, flat out has a manual option. Yet, I still run an Automatic program with all sorts of code tripping stuff disabled in the code section. Works OK but not perfect yet. The manual code didn't really play too well. I might go back to it if I ever figure out why the car runs so poorly when its cold, just to see if it it's workable.
Hello from France, and merry Christmas and a happy new year.
Having just received my 7730 ECM through the post today (yes the French Post Office works on Boxing Day !), I am keen to get underway with the conversion.
My 7730 came out of an '88 Beretta 2.8.
My car is an '87 GT 2.8 L with 5-speed gearbox and with mild porting and polishing of intake and heads, free flowing exhaust - no cat etc... I will probably go with a Truleo intake and headers soon as well and get rid of the EGR.
Will my MEMCAL need reprogramming? What are your suggestions - oh and yes Ryan, would you ship back a MEMCAL to France?
Hello from France, and merry Christmas and a happy new year.
Having just received my 7730 ECM through the post today (yes the French Post Office works on Boxing Day !), I am keen to get underway with the conversion.
My 7730 came out of an '88 Beretta 2.8.
My car is an '87 GT 2.8 L with 5-speed gearbox and with mild porting and polishing of intake and heads, free flowing exhaust - no cat etc... I will probably go with a Truleo intake and headers soon as well and get rid of the EGR.
Will my MEMCAL need reprogramming? What are your suggestions - oh and yes Ryan, would you ship back a MEMCAL to France?
Regards, Rafe
Yes, I ship internationally but there may be some restrictions (on insurance, etc). But we can discuss that when it comes time to make your order.
The mem-cal you have should be reprogrammed to work in the Fiero application. The 88 Beretta chip that is probably in your 7730 ECM is set up for an aluminum head 2.8 that had DIS. And I'm assuming you will be putting this on an iron-head engine with a distributor. So, at the very least, you would need the mem-cal reprogrammed to work with the engine (and transmission) you want to use it with.
I do have two options available for those of you needing mem-cals reprogrammed. You can either ship me your mem-cal to be reprogrammed (less expensive but you are without it longer), or you can get the moates G1 mem-cal adapter board and new chip (more expensive, but you don't need to send me anything to reprogram nor wait as long).
The moates G1 mem-cal adapter is a circuit board that plugs in between your computer and mem-cal. On the G1 is a socket that accepts an EPROM chip I can put the custom programming on to. This option does cost more due to the fact you will need to buy the G1 adapter and a blank chip but it may be worth it in your case since it would save you from having to ship me your stock mem-cal to have it reprogrammed. The other nice thing about having the G1 adapter is you can have me burn you new chips and just send those to you for you to swap out yourself instead of having to send something back to me in order to have it reprogrammed should you need changes made.
You can either purchase the moates G1 adapter yourself direct from www.moates.net or you can get it thru me. For pricing/options please contact me direct via email at: sp1@gmtuners.com
-ryan
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 12-28-2009).]
OK Just finished fitting my 7730 to the car this evening. It started up 1st time, but ran with a bad (slow) idle and seemed to pollute alot. I reset the base timing and then took the car for a run. (I set it to 10° - is this OK ? Should I go for more ? 11°, 12°, 13° etc... Remember: in France we have 95 and 98 octane fuel.)
It drove fine and seemed more responsive, however the car stalled each time I slowed to a stop at the junctions. There appears to be a very slight throttle "lag" when you "blip" the throttle, but not really noticable when driving normaly.
Once home again, the car stalled while pulling in to my driveway. However I stepped a little on the throttle while riding the clutch and managed to park the car in my garage. At this time the car "coughed" once and then the idle was perfect !
I'll see tomorrow on the open road how it really drives. (I do 60 miles to work in the morning and another 60 in the evening to come home.)
OK Just finished fitting my 7730 to the car this evening. It started up 1st time, but ran with a bad (slow) idle and seemed to pollute alot. I reset the base timing and then took the car for a run. (I set it to 10° - is this OK ? Should I go for more ? 11°, 12°, 13° etc... Remember: in France we have 95 and 98 octane fuel.)
It drove fine and seemed more responsive, however the car stalled each time I slowed to a stop at the junctions. There appears to be a very slight throttle "lag" when you "blip" the throttle, but not really noticable when driving normaly.
Once home again, the car stalled while pulling in to my driveway. However I stepped a little on the throttle while riding the clutch and managed to park the car in my garage. At this time the car "coughed" once and then the idle was perfect !
I'll see tomorrow on the open road how it really drives. (I do 60 miles to work in the morning and another 60 in the evening to come home.)
I'll let you know how I get on.
Regards, Rafe
Hey Rafe, base timing spec for this chip programming should be 10 deg BTDC. Make sure you are putting the ECM into base timing mode (by disconnecting the IC bypass tan/blk wire going between the ECM and ignition module). You can no longer put the ECM into base timing mode by shorting terminals A and B of the ALDL connector together, like the stock Fiero ECM calls for. If you are not disconnecting the IC bypass wire to put the system in base timing when you set your base timing advance, then you are probably running the base timing too far retarded which would cause the problems you spoke of.
Shoot me an email if you have any more questions or problems about this and I would be happy to help you out.
-ryan
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 02-08-2010).]
You're a genius Darth !! I'd set the base timing at 20° !!!!!
10° set on my strobe since the last time I'd used it and reading another 10° instead of 0° on the scale above the harmonic damper ! What a moron I am ??!!!!
If it turns out that you can't use it with the '02 N*, you might be interested to know that HP Tuners says they support tuning of the 2006-09 Cadillac Northstar PCMs including the 2006 Cadillac DHS which was offered with the non-VVT LD8 and L37 -> which I believe your 02 N* might be compatible with. So that might be another option you want to look into.
Ok so I finally finished catching up on this thread and I have some questions. I am in the middle of swapping a 3.4l from a '94 firebird. I'm going to be changing to distributor and all the fiero accessories. just using the block and heads. Its a learning process and i'm not experienced enough to go to DIS. I think I understand most of the swap but I'm curious to know if anyone knows if the 93-94 ECM is the 7730? and If it had the digital EGR? I'm not too worried about the egr as I don't have to pass emissions here.
Also, will this swap be compatible with the trueleo intake? I'm thinking of uprading to that next year. (already over budget)
If I decide not to do the ECM swap, this year, would I be better to use the ECM from an 85? I guess I should mention that I have an 87 GT. Thanks Gabe
Ok so I finally finished catching up on this thread and I have some questions. I am in the middle of swapping a 3.4l from a '94 firebird. I'm going to be changing to distributor and all the fiero accessories. just using the block and heads. Its a learning process and i'm not experienced enough to go to DIS. I think I understand most of the swap but I'm curious to know if anyone knows if the 93-94 ECM is the 7730? and If it had the digital EGR? I'm not too worried about the egr as I don't have to pass emissions here.
Also, will this swap be compatible with the trueleo intake? I'm thinking of uprading to that next year. (already over budget)
If I decide not to do the ECM swap, this year, would I be better to use the ECM from an 85? I guess I should mention that I have an 87 GT. Thanks Gabe
The 1993-95 Camaro/Firebird 3.4 computers are not 1227730's. What they are is an early version of GM's flash-based computers which means they don't have any removable chips that can be reprogrammed. And no tuning software exists that can edit or reflash these computers - so you are stuck with the stock programming if you want to use one.
Because you are going to be using a distributor on this engine, you can use a stock Fiero V6 ECM for now and save yourself some time and money if you want (but you will still need to have the chip reprogrammed to work with this engine).
-ryan
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 02-14-2010).]
Originally posted by Darth Fiero: Alex, I used to have a 350 TPI that was running the 7165 ECM and $6E code mask. I then upgraded to the speed density 7730 ECM running $8D code mask and the drivability/response of the engine increased significantly with just the ECM swap alone. It's definately a worthwhile upgrade and there is also a bonus when doing this. VEMaster is a shareware software program that works with TTS Datamaster scan data logs and the $8D code mask to automatically adjust VE table values to help you tune. VEMaster works very well and pretty much can take care of your idle and part throttle fuel table adjustments automatically. Of course, if you have done much reading over at thirdgen you probably already know this.
-ryan
A quick question. I'm in the process of a SBC swap using a TPI setup that uses the 7730 ecm. The stock wiring harness for the car (86 GT 2.8 4spd stick) is junk so I'm going to talk to a local hot rod wiring shop about making a new harness.
Would it make sense to give them the stock harness schematics for the 86GT and have them remake the stock harness just with the re pinned connection for the ECM and two extra injectors? Or would there be a better way to do this?
A quick question. I'm in the process of a SBC swap using a TPI setup that uses the 7730 ecm. The stock wiring harness for the car (86 GT 2.8 4spd stick) is junk so I'm going to talk to a local hot rod wiring shop about making a new harness.
Would it make sense to give them the stock harness schematics for the 86GT and have them remake the stock harness just with the re pinned connection for the ECM and two extra injectors? Or would there be a better way to do this?
It would be much easier to start with a stock Fiero 2.8 harness and modify that to work with the TPI V8. Only two pairs of injector wires will need to be added and some other sensor/device wires in the engine compartment may need to be lengthened or shortened. Aside from that all you would probably need to do is just add wires in the harness for the additional grounds and knock sensor the 7730 TPI ECM wants. But I think it would be cheaper just starting with a FIero harness rather than trying to build a custom one from scratch.
Im getting the things I need together for this swap. I got lucky when I bought a used engine that was suppose to be a stock 2.8 but turned out to be a 3.1 with the knock sensor and crank position sensor already in the block. I plan on doing DIS with digital EGR and EVAP purge solenoid. I have my needed parts list. Ive talked with Ryan (Darth Fiero) to get my prom burned and sent a PM to Gwain for the EGR adapter plate (crossing my fingers he still has one). Do any of you that have done/are doing this swap have any pointers for me? Thank you in advance!
I'm just about ready to do this swap myself and it's LONG overdue. When I rebuilt the 3.4 motor I swapped into my car, I deleted the cold start injector system, thinking "Hey, I live in FLORIDA, what the heck do I need a *cold* start injector for anyway." Turns out they didn't mean "cold" like I thought. It's apparently when the coolant temp is below operating temp.... After having hard stating issues for so long, (having to crank the engine over 3-4 times to get it to start), I'm looking forward to the 7730 fuel enrichment at start up and hopefully curing some of the rich running I've had in open loop with this 3.4 until the car warms up, (after it finally starts...) I'm staying with the OEM cruise control, as I've already replaced all my IP and Aux gages with SpeedHut gages and tapped the 4000PPM signal off the OEM buffer circuit board, leaving the 2000PPM signal to the OEM cruise module intact. "Mulletproofmonk" is building me a nice "adapter harness" and Ryan is reprogramming the memcal. I'm hoping I'll have everything here and installed in a week or two.
Back to working on my beloved Fiero project (my best friend who built it's engine passed away which took a while to get over)
The 1227730 upgrade sounds like the way to modernize the 2.8 and smooth it out. I am keeping the 2.8 in mine so that when the DOT folks in Austin look at it they will not give me any emissions grief (I have modified the car enough already) Maybe a V8 or a Merlin Engine Later.
Did anyone finally produce the egr adapter plate? The thread is quite long now and takes a good while to read through.
Yes I am still reprogramming chips for these conversions. However, I do not work weekends or holidays. I have fallen a bit behind on responding to emails this week because of the holiday - but I am in the process of getting caught back up right now. I did get your email, David, and will be responding to it shortly. I apologize for the delay.
-ryan
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 09-08-2010).]
Thanks for getting back to me. I have the computer & a pigtail coming in the mail right now and will forward the memcal on to you. I intend to make the mod easily reversible in case the Austin, TX Re-VIN DOT people don't like it. (Who knows with them)
My 14 year old is pushing hard for me to finish this car - he thinks he is driving it next. Yeah right.
I purchased a TPI set-up and "Integrator" harness from Speed and Performance in Arkansas for my V8 swap. It employs the 7730 ECM and a second box, the Integrator, to connect the Fiero harness to the 8 injectors and other sensors that are V8 specific (knock sensor, no EGR, no Cold Start, etc.). It further requires clipping the 6 Fiero injector leads and EGR wire since the Integrator and chip, as is, eliminates EGR. Reading this topic I get the sense that I may be able to eliminate this so-called Integrator by repinning the Fiero harness, adding the extra injector wires and some grounds and getting the 4 cylinder mounting tray. Am I understanding this correctly? Thanks.
Ken
------------------ '88 Formula V6 '88 GT TPI V8
[This message has been edited by kennn (edited 09-09-2010).]
I purchased a TPI set-up and "Integrator" harness from Speed and Performance in Arkansas. It employs the 7730 ECM and a second box, the Integrator, to connect the Fiero harness to the 8 injectors and other sensors that are V8 specific (knock sensor, no EGR, no Cold Start, etc.). It further requires clipping the 6 Fiero injector leads and EGR wire since the harness, as is, eliminates EGR. Reading this topic I get the sense that I may be able to eliminate this so-called Integrator by repinning the Fiero harness, adding the extra injector wires and some grounds and getting the 4 cylinder mounting tray. Am I understanding this correctly? Thanks.
I purchased a TPI set-up and "Integrator" harness from Speed and Performance in Arkansas for my V8 swap. It employs the 7730 ECM and a second box, the Integrator, to connect the Fiero harness to the 8 injectors and other sensors that are V8 specific (knock sensor, no EGR, no Cold Start, etc.). It further requires clipping the 6 Fiero injector leads and EGR wire since the Integrator and chip, as is, eliminates EGR. Reading this topic I get the sense that I may be able to eliminate this so-called Integrator by repinning the Fiero harness, adding the extra injector wires and some grounds and getting the 4 cylinder mounting tray. Am I understanding this correctly? Thanks.
Ken
Yes, you could easily repin and reuse the OE Fiero 2.8 ECM harness on a TPI V8 with a 7730 ECM. All you would need to do is add those two extra injector plugs (tie in with existing injector wiring) and do the same add-on mod using existing EGR wiring for the knock sensor and fan controls. Concerning grounds, if the 7730 TPI V8 ECM wiring has more grounds than the OE Fiero 2.8 harness has in it, it would be a good idea to run new wires for those.
Using a 7730 pigtail and a connector from an original 86 ECM, I built a converting plug assembly. I also realized that the car's built-in 160 baud interface (my added serial socket near the gear shift) needed upgrading too, so I wired up an 8192 from the MAX232 circuit found on the net. Figured I could get most of it done while Ryan is doing his magic on the memcal.
As for performance, HP & MPG do not concern me as much as smoother starting and response - and many here have said that the 7730 will help with those. I must say it was fun removing all the extra vacuum lines and stuff, and I would like to eventually plug all the holes rather than leave the cold start injector and other junk in place.
Making the egr adapter by hand is hard work! I am getting there though! All I have left is the half circular milling part....with no mill. Should be fun!
Making the egr adapter by hand is hard work! I am getting there though! All I have left is the half circular milling part....with no mill. Should be fun!
Can you cut one off a donor car? When I bought my 3.4L engine it had the digital EGR still mounted on the exhaust.
Started my 86 V6 up yesterday after completing the 1227730 ECM upgrade in this thread. Once the fuel pressure was up, it started easily and idled at the target 1100 rpm and sounds wonderful! Throttle response is better than ever before - This is a must-have upgrade for every V6 Fiero out there! I made a harness adapter rather than re-pin my loom (gave me options later on) - So a kit IS possible. The Knock sensor, digital EGR and evap canister valve control wires were all put together into a new loom, shielded and taped like all the others in the car - just looked neater that way..
Most thanks go to Darth (Ryan) from Sinister performance who programmed the memcal perfectly. I have many images but cannot, for the life of me, figure out HOW to post them here! (Which is hard to believe for a 30+ year engineer)
[This message has been edited by DavidM (edited 10-18-2010).]
