No other GM cars used the Fiero 2.8 ECMs. BUT, the Fiero 2.8 ECMs used the same connectors (ECM side) that most other GM ECMs of that era used; for example the TBI truck and van computers -- 1227747.
This is true then for the 16144288 as well (since the 1227747 and 16144288 are direct swaps)? (I only ask because I'll have a spare one of those soon..)
I have one more question regarding the 7730 and magnetic VSS: how do you connect the speedo output to the Fiero speedometer?
I understand that the purple and yellow wires from the magnetic VSS are connected to the ECM instead of the speedo. I can snip them nearby the C203 and re-route them to the ECM. Then I'll be left with a single wire coming from the ECM (speedo output), and two wires (purple & yellow) going to the speedo. What connects where?
I have one more question regarding the 7730 and magnetic VSS: how do you connect the speedo output to the Fiero speedometer?
I understand that the purple and yellow wires from the magnetic VSS are connected to the ECM instead of the speedo. I can snip them nearby the C203 and re-route them to the ECM. Then I'll be left with a single wire coming from the ECM (speedo output), and two wires (purple & yellow) going to the speedo. What connects where?
To run the fiero's speedometer off the 7730 ecm you will need to build this circuit:
If I understand correctly if I use the Fiero speedo off the 7730 ECM, this will add the possibility to correct , by tweaking the code in the ECM, the error induced by incorectly sized wheel diameter (like putting bigger than stock overall diameter tire) ?
If I understand correctly if I use the Fiero speedo off the 7730 ECM, this will add the possibility to correct , by tweaking the code in the ECM, the error induced by incorectly sized wheel diameter (like putting bigger than stock overall diameter tire) ?
I just searched the thread real quick and didn't find any mention... but what's wrong with using $8D (90-92 F-body V8) code switched to 6 cylinder and tuned? They're both dizzy setups with non-digital EGR's. IIRC I heard (grain of salt?) that the $8D is a more advanced code than the F-body V6 code. If there wouldn't be any issues here I'll use $8D in the '730 for my 3.4pr since I'm already familiar with it from tuning my '90 IROC-Z (before the turbos, it's running $58 now).
I just searched the thread real quick and didn't find any mention... but what's wrong with using $8D (90-92 F-body V8) code switched to 6 cylinder and tuned? They're both dizzy setups with non-digital EGR's. IIRC I heard (grain of salt?) that the $8D is a more advanced code than the F-body V6 code. If there wouldn't be any issues here I'll use $8D in the '730 for my 3.4pr since I'm already familiar with it from tuning my '90 IROC-Z (before the turbos, it's running $58 now).
To be honest I haven't ever tried it. Perhaps the next time I have a car here in the shop that I do this conversion to I will give it a shot. But I am reluctant to do this for a mail-order tune because I am sure it will require a lot of tuning to get running right.
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Originally posted by bnevets27:
Couple questions.
Can you use the 7730 to convert a stock fiero 2.8 to DIS? If I'm deleting the EGR, all I need to wire is for a knock sensor?
And if I can convert the 2.8 to DIS, what parts would I need from one of these donor cars?
Any chance the DIS removes my need for an ignition module?
Thanks
Yes, the 7730 ECM already has code written for it that will work with DIS on V6 (masks $6D, $A1, and $88); in fact the vast amount of V6's that the 7730 ECM was used with had DIS.
You cannot use any 4cyl DIS parts with a V6 except for the coils (there are only 2 of them on 4cyl; the V6 uses 3 coils). The 4cyl ignition module and crank sensor are different than what the V6 uses.
The Fiero ignition module (located inside the distributor) is not used with the DIS setup. There is an ignition module used, but it resides under the coils in the DIS system (coils+ign module is commonly referred to as the "coil pack"). The DIS coil pack can be mounted anywhere you want to mount it. But care should be taken to keep it away from heat if possible.
Cool. I wouldn't expect a mail order tune to be available off the bat, but once it's dialed in for a stock engine it shouldn't be a problem for those who need that. Tuning shouldn't be all that hard for the stock engines, TPI's, especially the 305's, have a very similar power curve to the 2.8's, there's just more of it. If you try it before I do (it'll be a while) let us know how it goes.
Darth, what would happen if you tuned the 7730 with $8F for 7psi and the turbo made 10psi? I finally got my turbo done and took it for a spin. The car will take about 1/2 throttle until the boost hits ~10psi then the engine completely bogs down and the SES light comes on. I need to get a good look at what the wideband is doing at this time but was concentrating on the boost gauge. The SES light goes out after a few seconds and the car runs good until I push it again.
Maybe I need to adjust the wastegate actuator to limit the boost as a first step. I was not expecting the car to hit that much boost.
EDIT: Got TunerPro RT to monitor the aldl stream. I have 2 flags, Wastegate Overboost and EST Monitor Fail.
[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 10-10-2007).]
Darth, what would happen if you tuned the 7730 with $8F for 7psi and the turbo made 10psi? I finally got my turbo done and took it for a spin. The car will take about 1/2 throttle until the boost hits ~10psi then the engine completely bogs down and the SES light comes on. I need to get a good look at what the wideband is doing at this time but was concentrating on the boost gauge. The SES light goes out after a few seconds and the car runs good until I push it again.
Maybe I need to adjust the wastegate actuator to limit the boost as a first step. I was not expecting the car to hit that much boost.
EDIT: Got TunerPro RT to monitor the aldl stream. I have 2 flags, Wastegate Overboost and EST Monitor Fail.
Well if the chip was programmed for 7psi of boost and you pushed it to 10psi, the end result could be the overboost code.
The other code for the EST needs to be checked and repaired ASAP. Let me know what you come up with...
Well it did not take long, thank goodness. This is the wiring off the ignition module. Wires are EST Bypass, EST, Reference, and Ground. I was getting an intermittent miss and SES light when the car hit 5k RPM. Then after the turbo swap I got a steady SES light and code 42, EST Monitor Fail. This was hidden beneath my wiring protector. So much for protection as the heat shrink tubing is melted:
Well it did not take long, thank goodness. This is the wiring off the ignition module. Wires are EST Bypass, EST, Reference, and Ground. I was getting an intermittent miss and SES light when the car hit 5k RPM. Then after the turbo swap I got a steady SES light and code 42, EST Monitor Fail. This was hidden beneath my wiring protector. So much for protection as the heat shrink tubing is melted:
Yikes! Looks like you need to find/use some higher temp heat shrink tubing. See if you can find some that is rated for 300 deg F min working temp.
Originally posted by Darth Fiero: I don't have any adapter plates right now and don't have the resources to get one made. If someone like ohio86se could get a mock-up model made and send it to me, I could check fitment on the Fiero 2.8 crossover pipe and digital EGR valves I have here to see if it would work. But I am very busy in the shop right now so I don't really have time to devote to the EGR adapter plate project at the moment other than what I said I could do above. -ryan
2.
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Originally posted by Gwain: I could supply those EGR adapter plates out of my shop. In addition to becoming a Fiero "addict" I do CNC machining for a number of industries, including custom motorcycle builders. From what I've seen on this thread, looks like they could be made easily. If anyone would like to pm me the drawings, files, sketches they have, I'll figure a price and post it here. I can either make them and supply them, or supply them through someone else who'd like to handle ordering and shipping.
Marc in sunny Titusville, FL 85 Sport w/V6 transplant 85 GT just newly on the road 84 SE loaded, son's car
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Originally posted by ohio86se: Ryan, Have you ever used SolidWorks? I have used AutoCad for about 10 year and SolidWorks for about 5. Do you need any modeling done for the parts you are designing? I can do that. Its my normal job. Just let me know
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Originally posted by Darth Fiero: Concerning the EGR adapter, I haven't been doing much work on it lately because I have been busy in the shop. However, it looks like ohio86se has already came up with a CAD model so all we need to do is get it transferred to material so it can be fit tested. -ryan
I've been tying up all the ends and participants by P.Ms and... We should have a first prototype made in a week or two. From there it will be sent to Darth Fiero for test fitting and fixes And if all goes well -----> Production and sale
Credits go to:
- Darth Fiero - Original idea and design
- ohio86se - Adapter plate SolidWorks file
- Gwain - CNC work and future production Marc in sunny Titusville, FL
Darth, what would happen if you tuned the 7730 with $8F for 7psi and the turbo made 10psi? I finally got my turbo done and took it for a spin. The car will take about 1/2 throttle until the boost hits ~10psi then the engine completely bogs down and the SES light comes on. I need to get a good look at what the wideband is doing at this time but was concentrating on the boost gauge. The SES light goes out after a few seconds and the car runs good until I push it again.
Maybe I need to adjust the wastegate actuator to limit the boost as a first step. I was not expecting the car to hit that much boost.
EDIT: Got TunerPro RT to monitor the aldl stream. I have 2 flags, Wastegate Overboost and EST Monitor Fail.
If you have the latest 8F ads file in TunerPro you'll be able to find that the max allowable boost in the programming is about 10.6 psi although there is programming to support higher boost than that. The actual code would have to be modified as I mentioned in the turbocharging the 2.8 thread or a diode would have to be used to keep the ECM from sensing max boost over run before you reach the boost level you want.
Maybe if you set Overboost fuel cutoff psi and Overboost fuel restore psi to the same value (max is 10.61 psi) it will allow for more boost. I'm thinking that the ECM read rate will be fast enough to prevent an experience of actual fuel cut since it would be turned back on as fast as it was turned off. You will probably have to make adjustments to at least one more table I believe that sets how long to wait before restoring fuel.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 10-14-2007).]
Cool. I asked Darth to raise the limit. If the built-in limit is not enough I'll have to back the boost down a bit. Would be nice to get 10psi without knock. I plan to run E85 so that will help.
I've been tying up all the ends and participants by P.Ms and... We should have a first prototype made in a week or two. From there it will be sent to Darth Fiero for test fitting and fixes And if all goes well -----> Production and sale
I just finished installing my 7730 ECM today. Wow, what a difference! With the stock ECM, it used to take 3-4 seconds of cranking to start, then would want to stall. And it would run like crap until it warmed up.
When I started the engine with the 7730 installed, it fired up immediately, and idled nice and smooth. I'm very impressed.
I just finished installing my 7730 ECM today. Wow, what a difference! With the stock ECM, it used to take 3-4 seconds of cranking to start, then would want to stall. And it would run like crap until it warmed up.
When I started the engine with the 7730 installed, it fired up immediately, and idled nice and smooth. I'm very impressed.
that is from bad MAT or CTS sensors - or maybe just bad wiring to them, but - whatever - good job!
I just go me a 7730 this weekend. going to do the switch over, while I replace the cam - since motor is out, and wiring all tore down anyways.
picked up the 7730 from 89' Corsica, w/3.1 mpfi, along with the mount tray & connector w/4" leads also, got the connectors for the knock sensor & crank sensor. I have the sensors in my 3.1 lumina block - just not hooked to anything I also got the distributer blank cover & cam sensor. going DIS. no more ignition module. gonna spend much time tearing thru this thread and any links from it.
anyways - is there a way to verify a ECM is working? pin checks? test posts?
The only way I know of checking is the SES light is supposed to come on when the key is first turned to ON. This probably only checks it's getting power. And of course the code 12. Probably need specialized hardware/software to test it fully. Just a guess.
Originally posted by Pyrthian: that is from bad MAT or CTS sensors - or maybe just bad wiring to them, but - whatever - good job!
All my sensors and wiring are fine. Same goes for the vacuum lines, ignition system, etc. I've tested everything, on numerous occasions. It's all in excellent condition.
The problem is that the stock V6 ECM is too damn slow. It was like a dog chasing its tail. The fact that my engine purrs like a cat after the ECM swap is indicative of that.
[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 11-05-2007).]
So, I take it that the 7730 is found inside, under the dash in front of the glove box. ?? Minor pain, but... Strolling around the self service junk yard, I found two 7727 computers nestled in the engine bay just in front of the right shock tower. ------------------ FierOmar
[This message has been edited by FierOmar (edited 11-06-2007).]
So, I take it that the 7730 is found inside, under the dash in front of the glove box. ?? Minor pain, but... Strolling around the self service junk yard, I found two 7727 computers nestled in the engine bay just in front of the right shodk tower.
thats where it was on the 89 Corsica. a few 7mm screws & some wire cutters - and it was mine. then I found a 92 GrandPrix, w/3.1, where someone removed the heads. made it real easy to get the additional sensors & connectors I needed.
gonna havta dig back thru this thread and see how y'all are mounting the ECM - its sideways....
Originally posted by FierOmar: There is some discussion about mounting a few pages back.
Now, was it in this thread or another one that someone commented on using the 3.4 Camaro intake with the DIS and the 7730 computer?
found it - early on - use the 4-cyl ECM tray from a 87-88
and, that someone was me. but, that was awhile ago, and I gutted my stock upper plenum, and will probably continue to use it instead. but, the DIS - yes - still in the plan - tho, I originaly was intending on having the coil packs for the DIS between the banks of the Camaro intake, above the fual rail.
Now, was it in this thread or another one that someone commented on using the 3.4 Camaro intake with the DIS and the 7730 computer?
I don't know where it was talked about as it has been a while since I have said anything about this subject; but I would like to review here.
The stock Fiero 2.8 intake manifold was designed in an era at GM where low and mid range power (torque) was of primary concern. The Chevy Tuned Port Injection engines were the best example of this. As a result, that long runner design was implemented on the Fiero's 2.8. And it's the long intake runners that give the 2.8 it's healthy bottom end. But this also results in sacrificing the power in the upper rpm's; which is why so many people have seeked something different (carburated or trueleo). The Camaro 3.4 intake has a unique split upper plenum that is basically open which provides for a shorter overall runner length compared to the Fiero 2.8 intake setup. This means that using a Camaro 3.4 intake on a Fiero 2.8 will result in better upper RPM power vs. the stock 2.8 intake. The main reason why a lot of people don't swap the Camaro intake onto the Fiero is because it will not clear the distributor; but if you have DIS then that isn't an issue. Unfortunately most stock Fiero 2.8 blocks and cranks do not have provisions for the DIS's crank sensor. Later 2.8 blocks (primarily found in 88's) do have these provisions, but are not machined for it from the factory. But if I remember correctly there are some aftermarket vendors who are now offering external crank sensor/triggers that will work with the GM DIS system and can be added to any 60 deg V6.
You will only connect the above circuit to the yellow wire that goes to the Fiero speedometer. The purple wire is not used.
When I read the comment above, I took it to mean that the purple wire from the speedometer should be left disconnected. Of course, I was mistaken. The purple wire from the speedo still needs to remain connected to the VSS. And the purple wire from the 7730 ECM (pin B9) taps into it.
I just wanted to clarify that, in case anyone else makes the same mistake.
On a different note, I noticed that occasionally my engine will stall when I disengage the clutch. It always happens after transbraking (i.e. downshifting). Sometimes, it just dies. And sometimes the idle will surge/drop a couple times before stalling. I hooked up a diagnostic scanner, and found no trouble codes. All sensors seem to be within normal operating specs. Any idea what's causing this?
When I read the comment above, I took it to mean that the purple wire from the speedometer should be left disconnected. Of course, I was mistaken. The purple wire from the speedo still needs to remain connected to the VSS. And the purple wire from the 7730 ECM (pin B9) taps into it.
I just wanted to clarify that, in case anyone else makes the same mistake.
No, that is incorrect. The purple wire coming from the Fiero's Speedometer is a redundant ground which was originally used to ground one terminal of the VSS (vehicle speed sensor). The 7730 ECM has it's own ground wire (purple as well) that will handle this job, so there is no reason to hook up the purple wire coming from the Fiero's speedo. In fact, I recommend against hooking it up in order to keep the 7730 ECM isolated as much as possible from the inside wiring/grounds.
The reason why is because if by chance the main battery ground cable becomes disconnected from the engine block, it is possible the ground circuit could be completed thru the ECM via the speedo which could lead to a fried ECM or burnt wiring harness (since the battery negative also grounds to the chassis thru that smaller wire coming off the cable terminal). This is also the reason why I highly recommend all ECM grounds be made to the engine directly and not to the chassis.
With the 7730 ECM, I have a new and different stalling issue. As mentioned above, it likes to stall if I disengage the clutch after downshifting. Sometimes, it just dies. And sometimes, the idle will surge/drop a couple times before stalling.
For what it's worth, the IAC is new, and the TB passage is clear.
[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 11-09-2007).]
With the 7730 ECM, I have a new and different stalling issue. As mentioned above, it likes to stall if I disengage the clutch after downshifting. Sometimes, it just dies. And sometimes, the idle will surge/drop a couple times before stalling.
For what it's worth, the IAC is new, and the TB passage is clear.
Ok, contact me via email or PM so I can collect some more info from you and see if we can figure out this issue.
