how much would a ecm kit cost and when will they be available? and later on could i run a turbo with no changes to the ecm? i have no clue about ecm swaps an stuff but i do want a better running motor
If I sent you an 87' harness would you be able to mod it and come up with the ecm <preprograming would be a must, I don't know how to do that, nor do I have the equiptment to. > If you are willing to do this, how much would you charge? pm me
Originally posted by DEMONCHILD: ok then how much for the ecm? and maby some instructions showin how and what wires to change around
I found about 10 of them in my local u-pull-it junkyard for $36 each. For a list of cars that use the 1227730 you can go to http://www.partsamerica.com/ and look up an ECM for a 1989 Chevy Beretta with a 2.8L V6. Select the first one then look in the middle of the page for "See all vehicles this product fits". These are all V6 cars so the memcal has the correct limp home mode chips. The 7730 was also used in I4 and V8 cars which won't have the correct memcal.
With the u-pull-it type junkyard you take some tools with you and pull the ECM from behind the glove box. I used a phillips head, 7mm and 10mm wrenches, and wire cutters for the pigtails. A small socket set can make it a bit faster. Maybe 15 minutes to remove it.
There are several ways to change wires: cut/splice/solder or repin the ECM connectors or build a swap harness. I did the c/s/s and it worked but wish I had done the repining instead. You push out the Fiero pin from the connector and insert it in the 7730 connector in the proper place. It is not difficult at all. Just follow the wiring pinouts and take your time. Proper tools make all the difference.
The 7730 was also used in I4 and V8 cars which won't have the correct memcal.
If anyone gets a 7730 ECM out of a car that had the 305 or 350 Tuned Port Injection (TPI) V8 and needs a V6 mem-cal; please contact me. I would be interested in either purchasing your V8 mem-cal or trading it for the V6 one you need to do this swap.
Originally posted by Mister: Two week have elapsed and I got word from Gwain: "He is still waiting to get into an open machine. Hope that happens this week"
Good news from Titusville, FL gentlemen, I got an email from Gwain today.
" I’ve sent an Email to Darth Fiero on Pennocks for a mailing address to send him one of the prototype EGR Adapter plates we’ve made up. When I get a response, I’ll send it out, then we’ll see what his evaluation is."
Thanks Gwain
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[This message has been edited by Mister (edited 11-12-2007).]
ok im confused now at the start of the post i thought the ecm needs program mods?
now its just plug an play?
what all do i need to modify for the ecm to work >.<
do i need the egr valve...i donot have emissions requirements in my state and what do i have to do to add a knock sensor? and where can i find a knock sensor and wiring for one......... and what will this do for my fan .....would it turn on by ecm? and can i just leaave my 7th injector in with no wireing to it?
The 7730 does need to be reprogrammed to your specific engine's needs. Whether you run a digital EGR or not, digital Purge valve or not, DIS or distributor, 15lbs or 17lbs injectors, whatever. Just fill out the form Darth will send you, pay the man, then he will burn you a chip for your setup. The only way it could be plug and play would be if you swapped the exact engine from the donor car with everything being exactly the same and used the donor cars wiring harness.
You do not need to modify anything for the ECM to work. You will change the ECM holder between the seats as the 7730 is oriented a different way. That is covered in this thread. To make it work just swap the pins from the Fiero ECM to the 7730.
You do not need an EGR valve. It's nice to have for emissions but not required for the car to run. Some folks here want the newer style digital EGR so that is what is being worked on. Same for the gas tank Purge canister. The newer style is digital, the old vacuum. Your choice on what to do.
The ECM will control the fan. No more fan switch needed. Just leave it in place to block the hole. Same with the cold start injector. Not needed anymore so just leave it. It won't hurt anything.
I'll have to leave the knock sensor question to someone who has done it. My 3.4L came with one already in the block. I can tell you it's just one wire run from the sensor to the proper ECM pin.
I have a spare Fiero harness. I have 2 7730 ECM's and 2 sets of connectors with close to 6" of wiring that connect to the 7730's. Can someone make me a harness?
I assume 2 wires will be added to I can splice into the knock sensor on my block. I have a 3.1 rebuild with a turbo on it that uses a knock sensor connected to a Buick ESC that controls ignition timing.
Only thing I am missing is the 4cyl ECM mounting hardware.
Originally posted by lou_dias: I have a spare Fiero harness. I have 2 7730 ECM's and 2 sets of connectors with close to 6" of wiring that connect to the 7730's. Can someone make me a harness?
I assume 2 wires will be added to I can splice into the knock sensor on my block. I have a 3.1 rebuild with a turbo on it that uses a knock sensor connected to a Buick ESC that controls ignition timing.
Only thing I am missing is the 4cyl ECM mounting hardware.
I might be able to. I am doing mine soon - hopefully before end of year. how's about you supply the loom & insulating tape, and a ECM tray for both, and cover your shipping I've gotten pretty good at making the harnesses look OK, and will re-use most of the loom - but the small peices are always so damn brittle. rodney has the tape - $23 for a roll to do 1, not sure of the cost of loom, but - gotta be the good stuff w/the stripe - again - most can be re-used. and, the tray's - finding them is harder than paying for them...
Wiring in the knock sensor is covered in Darth Fiero's instructions. But just FYI, the knock sensor uses the same type of connector as the fan switch. Since you won't be using the fan switch any more, you can re-use the connector (and some of the wire) for the knock sensor.
There are some coolant drain plugs on the engine block. At least one of them should be the same size as the threads on the knock sensor. You just unscrew the plug (with an Allen wrench), and screw in the knock sensor. I used the one on the trunk side of the engine block, between the transmission and the alternator. That area is a lot less cluttered than the other side of the engine.
With the rest of the wiring, I took the easy route. There are no vehicle inspections in Florida. So I had the EGR and evap canister purge deleted. The 7730 swap also involved deleting the cold start injection system, and the fan switch. I was able to re-use some of that wiring for the knock sensor, injector driver grounds, etc. The rest got deleted.
Re-pinning the ECM connectors is simple and easy, but is time consuming. You can remove the pins from the housings using a sewing needle or a paperclip. Then, using Darth's instructions, insert the pins into the appropriate spots in the 7730 ECM connectors.
OK, for those of you who have been following this thread religiously, I've shipped off the first prototype EGR Adapter Plate to Darth Fiero for evaluation.
For the curious, here are some pics.
I've made some extras, so if we get the "blessing", I've got some to distribute.
I haven't figured out the final pricing as yet, but preliminarily it looks to be around $30 to $35. I'd like to get that cost down, which could happen with larger runs. I've also put the question to Darth Fiero whether he feels the "bare" aluminum is OK, or should we put an anodize coating on them (which adds $'s) to protect them in the engine compartment environment?
Any inputs?
Marc in sunny Titusville, FL
84 SE son's car, loaded 85 Coupe w/V6 transplant 85 GT just newly on the road
just a few questions on the 7730 swap, i plan to turbo my 2.8, I have a syclone trubo and intercooler that i'm going to put on the car, down the road i may upgrade to a 3.1 or 3.4 when needed. can you tune the chip for the 2.8 turbo setup? then if i upgrade engine size you need to retune right? and if i understood all the post my stock 5speed trans does not need any vss mods just tied into the ecm correct? thanks for the help
Originally posted by Gwain: I've made some extras, so if we get the "blessing", I've got some to distribute. Marc in sunny Titusville, FL
Good work Gwain, since I'm not THE expert I can't help with the F.B. Like you and others I hope it will pass the Darth test and we can get these suckers rolling
OK, for those of you who have been following this thread religiously, I've shipped off the first prototype EGR Adapter Plate to Darth Fiero for evaluation.
Marc, I just wanted to let you know I got the adapter. Initial test fits reveal some adjustments to the design need to be made so it works properly in the application. I have a busy weekend so I should be able to get these adjustments to you early next week.
ok so am i geting this right if i have prom chips all i need is the 7730 ecm? or will the ecm in my 86 accept the proms or to be safe should i send the proms i have to darth for a double check on their programing?
[This message has been edited by DEMONCHILD (edited 11-17-2007).]
Marc, I just wanted to let you know I got the adapter. Initial test fits reveal some adjustments to the design need to be made so it works properly in the application. I have a busy weekend so I should be able to get these adjustments to you early next week.
-ryan
Let me know if we need to do changes to the drawing and Ill get it updated.
OK guys, I'll wait for the changes from Darth, and see what we have to do to either "fix" the parts we have, or make changes and run another group of parts.
I'd hold off changing the drawing till we know the changes are complete and acceptable.
OK guys, I'll wait for the changes from Darth, and see what we have to do to either "fix" the parts we have, or make changes and run another group of parts.
I'd hold off changing the drawing till we know the changes are complete and acceptable.
Marc
Marc, EGR adapter drawing corrections have been emailed to you and ohio86se using the email addresses you both have listed on this forum. Let me know if either of you don't get them.
very interested in the adapter plate as well. if it is not a "trade secret" could I get a copy of the updated drawing? I will not horn in on your business, I could just have someone make one for me. If not, I am more than willing to pay the 30$ or 40$ dollars.
[This message has been edited by Madess (edited 11-20-2007).]
Originally posted by Darth Fiero: The ECM that was used in this swap was the 1227730 unit which was used in many 1987-92 era GM cars. For this application, I elected to use the $88 code mask programming which was designed to be used in a 1990-92 Camaro/Firebird 3.1. The Camaro/Firebird 3.1 is very similar to the stock Fiero 2.8 including it's use of a distributor and iron-heads. With that being said, there were some significant differences between the two systems...
The 7730 ECM running $88 code mask does NOT use or need the 7th injector (cold start). The 7730 ECM controls the coolant fan relay directly. The 7730 ECM will interface with stock Fiero 2.8 ECM wiring harness. (although some modifications will be needed) The 7730 ECM uses a knock sensor. The 7730 ECM interfaces directly with the speed sensor which means changes can be made in the programming to calibrate the speedo without having to change out the plastic gears on the VSS sensor itself. The 7730 ECM running the $88 code mask will NOT work with the stock Fiero 2.8 EGR valve. It is designed to work with the digital EGR valve used in the early-mid 90's era GM V6 cars. I went ahead and designed an adapter plate and had another Fiero friend make one up so we could use the digital EGR valve on the stock Fiero 2.8 y-pipe.
I haven't followed this whole thread, so this may have been touched on, but is there a reason not to use the $8D mask? How many BLM cells does the $88 support?
Originally posted by Will: I haven't followed this whole thread, so this may have been touched on, but is there a reason not to use the $8D mask? How many BLM cells does the $88 support?
Somebody else brought that up to me and at the time I first did this swap, the thought about using the $8D code mask hadn't crossed my mind. Besides, my time for trying out new things was limited due to my very tight shop schedule so I didn't really have that option considering the $88 code mask was pretty much ready to go for the application. The next conversion I do, I will definitely give the $8D mask a shot. But for now I hesitate to do any mail order tunes using the $8D code mask until I have a chance to thoroughly work with it myself.
I just searched the thread real quick and didn't find any mention... but what's wrong with using $8D (90-92 F-body V8) code switched to 6 cylinder and tuned? They're both dizzy setups with non-digital EGR's. IIRC I heard (grain of salt?) that the $8D is a more advanced code than the F-body V6 code. If there wouldn't be any issues here I'll use $8D in the '730 for my 3.4pr since I'm already familiar with it from tuning my '90 IROC-Z (before the turbos, it's running $58 now).
You'll probably beat me to it Darth, but it's still the plan for mine (unless the whole TT L98 goes in with it).
Bump for something I am about to attempt... I did 34mpg with no egr and no cat, so once I get this swap done (spring hopefully) I will do some 282 mpg testing.
picked up a Beretta V6 7730 today with connectors and 6 inches of wire for $28 today. Where are the instructions mentioned earlier? I have the list of where all the wires need to go to re-pin the fiero to the beretta connectors. But I don't know what slot it which, are there diagrams of which slot is which on both cars?
I've almost got my motor together, and will be starting on the wiring harness for this swap real soon. Anyone else actually get this swap done and give any tips?
Here's some info out of the Fiero Service Manual that describes how to extract the electrical terminals and wires from the ECM connectors (after you have removed the plastic retainers on the backs of the connectors)...
To see the back views of the 7730 and Fiero ECM connectors so you can identify pin ID locations, you will need to download the appropriate wiring/pinout diagrams for the Fiero and donor vehicle you got the 7730 ECM from; which can be found here: http://home.att.net/~subzero350/index.htm
Pyrthian, thats a good point, does anyone aside from the first guy have a 7730 pr motor running? This won't stop me from attempting this, I was just wondering.
Here is an engine bay shot of his car at the last meeting. He kinda cheated though, (: He did a Camaro 3.4 V6 swap a couple years ago and did the 7730 swap a few months ago. So this is what he has now.
Kinda cool to see a Fiero looking motor without a distributor shaft. He will be re-locating the coils at a later date.
If you want to see a few more pics. Just scroll down about 3/4 of the page to the car pics.
I am wondering is it worth going ahead and spending the extra cash to convert to DIS when I do the 7730 swap? Also can I do a DIS conversion without dropping the motor?
I did this swap on my 88GT a few months ago . It only took me a few hours to do. The difference is amazing. My car cranks and goes to a smooth idle. No more hunting around. No more high idle that seems to last forever. As I understand it, the origial ECM updated every second and a half. The 7730 updates 10 times a second. The throttle response and driveability are vastly improved. My car drives like an 07. I am running a test pipe and a K&N and my engine pulls to the redline. I highly recommend this upgrade . Thanks for a great upgrade Darth. P.S. The wiring for the knock sensor and the fan switch gave me more trouble than anything else. If someone could explain this part clearly, I believe this would be a more popular mod. Thanks again Darth !!!
