Originally posted by madcurl: No percentage, but I'm glad to pass along the info I got from David (Pantera Replica owner). Have you planned out the location or needed brackets to complet the job?
I have a rough idea of where to put them. When I get my hands on them, I will have a better idea and then work on brackets and emergency releases. I was thinking about finding or designing some type of cable / pin release for the actuators for an emergency release. I was looking at one of the links you gave me for the Hot Rod parts. They have some lock rods designed for suicide doors. I am thinking maybe I could adapt a set of those hooked up to something like the stock hood release cable. Should I loose power or fry something in the actuators, I could pull the hood release handle and it would pull a release pin on the bottom mount of each actuator.
One question before I order the 12's. If I only need say 10 or less inches, can I still use the 12 inch actuator? I am not sure how to "figure" what size unit would be best.
Pat
Edit to add: page 5 ownage.....yahoo!
[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 12-06-2009).]
One question before I order the 12's. If I only need say 10 or less inches, can I still use the 12 inch actuator? I am not sure how to "figure" what size unit would be best.
Pat
Edit to add: page 5 ownage.....yahoo!
It depends upon the location. A custom made frame (as was the case when V8Archie did my fronts) you have room for 10-12" options based upon where the bracket began. The same was the case for the rears, but I wanted maxinum opening so 12" worked just fine. Not knowing your details, I'd think you'd need to have it somewhere near the head lamp buckets where there's a opening underneath the car. As for the rear hatch... I don't know. Like you stated, some type of wire to unlock a pin to the actuators or something?
It depends upon the location. A custom made frame (as was the case when V8Archie did my fronts) you have room for 10-12" options based upon where the bracket began. The same was the case for the rears, but I wanted maxinum opening so 12" worked just fine. Not knowing your details, I'd think you'd need to have it somewhere near the head lamp buckets where there's a opening underneath the car. As for the rear hatch... I don't know. Like you stated, some type of wire to unlock a pin to the actuators or something?
I think I need to do some more measuring and maybe some "mock up" before I order the actuators. Looking at it this am, about the only place for the actuators in front is ahead of the front wall and next to the headlights. I have the measurements of the actuators and I will "mock up" something to resemble the actuator and then see where it will fit - opened and closed. My concern now is that is I mount them that far forward, I may need stronger actuators as they will be lifting the majority of the hood weight. I may need to think about the hinges and thier strength/mounting too. I am thinking that with the actuators that far forward - close to the hinges, instead of lifting the hood, they may just rip the hinges out of thier mounts on the hood. I need to do a lot more thinking on it. Thanks again for all your help Madcurl.
Woo hoo finaly finished reading all 5 pages and it 2 am lol.. The car is turning out great I'm just trying to figure out what XTC stands for lol.
Anyway, the car looks awsome, and if I was in ur sons shoes I prolly be killing the battery every night listing to music also lol. I hope I can see it in person some time when move back to Texas in may.
Good luck with your future fiberglass experiances, after reading sofakings thread it doesn't look all to hard..
Woo hoo finaly finished reading all 5 pages and it 2 am lol.. The car is turning out great I'm just trying to figure out what XTC stands for lol.
Anyway, the car looks awsome, and if I was in ur sons shoes I prolly be killing the battery every night listing to music also lol. I hope I can see it in person some time when move back to Texas in may.
Good luck with your future fiberglass experiances, after reading sofakings thread it doesn't look all to hard..
Thanks for the positive feedback. Anytime you are out this way, you are more than welcome to come by. Next summer, we are planning on hitting a few of the Fiero events around Dallas and San Antonio so if you are out that way, come on out and check it out. Not sure what XTC really stands for. The body was origianally made by a company in Florida and now PISA Corp in Phoenix AZ makes them. I've only seen a few around. Not a bad car for a 16 year olds first huh? I have spoiled both my boys rotten!
As promised, here are some pics with the hood up. Tell me what you think! Where should I locate the actuators? Looks like there may be room ahead of the front wheel well on the outside of the frame rail or inboard of the headlight's. Thanks for any insight yu may have. I think I blew a disc just opening the hood to get these shots.....
Man you work fast Greg. Now if you could just whip out all the parts in the next day or so, I think I could put it together by Monday....I can not let my 16 year old see this..... I will be on the hook to get it done!
The car is turning out great I'm just trying to figure out what XTC stands for lol.
XTC = ecstacy
ec⋅sta⋅sy  /ˈɛkstəsi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ek-stuh-see] Show IPA Use ecstasy in a Sentence See web results for ecstasy See images of ecstasy –noun, plural -sies. 1. rapturous delight. 2. an overpowering emotion or exaltation; a state of sudden, intense feeling. 3. the frenzy of poetic inspiration. 4. mental transport or rapture from the contemplation of divine things.
As promised, here are some pics with the hood up. Tell me what you think! Where should I locate the actuators? Looks like there may be room ahead of the front wheel well on the outside of the frame rail or inboard of the headlight's. Thanks for any insight yu may have. I think I blew a disc just opening the hood to get these shots.....
Pat
Yeah, that looks about right. Keep in mind V8Archie used a flat metal plate that was glassed into the hood. The plate helped distribute the weight within the 6 x 8" square metal plate.
[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 12-09-2009).]
That is how I always pronounced it.......but i think it has something to do with the name of the original designer and builder
Group XTC was owned by a man named Tom Clark. This was the first kit I seriously thought about buying. The car I bought has the designer and builders name in it's name too...... The DL in DL10 Predator stands for Don Lee and the 10 is what he thought it was on a scale of 1 to 10.
ec⋅sta⋅sy  /ˈɛkstəsi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ek-stuh-see] Show IPA Use ecstasy in a Sentence See web results for ecstasy See images of ecstasy –noun, plural -sies. 1. rapturous delight. 2. an overpowering emotion or exaltation; a state of sudden, intense feeling. 3. the frenzy of poetic inspiration. 4. mental transport or rapture from the contemplation of divine things.
That fits the car and the fun I have driving it! I honestly never thought of it that way but it fits......Good one RCR!
Yeah, that looks about right. Keep in mind V8Archie used a flat metal plate that was glassed into the hood. The plate helped distribute the weight within the 6 x 8" square metal plate.
Thanks Madcurl, I went back through your build thread and was looking at the way Archie mounted the actuators. I am pretty sure I can mount them in the same spot. I may have to cut some holes and do some welding plus add some more support (piece of plate) to the hood but thanks to you and Archie, I won't be reinventing the "wheel". Big props to you guys for what you do and your willingmess to help and share. I have been informed that I have to wait till after Xmas to get the actuators. I wonder what will be under the tree this year? Thanks again!
That is how I always pronounced it.......but i think it has something to do with the name of the original designer and builder
Group XTC was owned by a man named Tom Clark. This was the first kit I seriously thought about buying. The car I bought has the designer and builders name in it's name too...... The DL in DL10 Predator stands for Don Lee and the 10 is what he thought it was on a scale of 1 to 10.
Thanks for the info DL10. All I really know about the original designer/owner is that they were out of Florida. Bloozeberry sent me a pamphlet about the XTC from the origianl manufacturer. There is one for sale on Craigslist in Las Cruses, NM about 40 miles North of here. I am tempted to go take a look at it, but the pics on CL look rough. They are askin 4k for it. I believe that's a little steep for one in that condition but you never know! We certainly do not see any of them around here.
Man you work fast Greg. Now if you could just whip out all the parts in the next day or so, I think I could put it together by Monday....I can not let my 16 year old see this..... I will be on the hook to get it done!
ec⋅sta⋅sy  /ˈɛkstəsi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ek-stuh-see] Show IPA Use ecstasy in a Sentence See web results for ecstasy See images of ecstasy –noun, plural -sies. 1. rapturous delight. 2. an overpowering emotion or exaltation; a state of sudden, intense feeling. 3. the frenzy of poetic inspiration. 4. mental transport or rapture from the contemplation of divine things.
K thx, but the all of the definitions of ecstasy is a lil much. Lol I may be blond but I'm not stupid..
I guess I was to blond to pronounce XTC like ecstasy instead I always pronouced it X-T-C.. Lol my bad..
But hey, I mean even katatak was as much in the dark as I was lol..
Anyway, looking good man.. Keep it up.
Edit to make myself look a little less like a *ss
[This message has been edited by FallenShadow 2m4 (edited 12-10-2009).]
I got some outer dew wipes and remote door locks for my son/XTC for Christmas. The plan was for him to install them on the - kind of a first "on his own" type project. Man was I wrong....lol. Not completely his fault though as we ran into some issues with the driver's door once we got the door panel and outer skin off. First issue was that all the clips on the inside of the door panel are fubar'd. I will have to spend some time with epoxy and maybe some fiberglass to fix it up. I am sure the passenger side is in the same shape. Also the 2 metal clip brackets at the top of the panel were ripped off the panel and then hot glued back on. It looks like when it was installed that the plastic clip did not line up with the hole in the door so the PO pounded on the door panel till the metal bracket caved in. I'll have to peel them off, straighten them out and probably glass them back onto the panel.
This car has no key locks on the doors so there is no way to lock the car. The PO decided that it would be better to disassemble the door lock mechanisim so that the door would never be "accidentally" locked. I have a set of donor doors that I will eventually install on the car but for now, I just want to get the door locks working as my son will start driving this car to school and work next week. We neded up using parts off the donor doors to get these working. There were some other issues with the way the door was mounted that I had to fix before I could do anything else. Most my time spent today was fixing all the little things that were wrong with the drivers door.
Here's what I got accomplished today.
Once I figured out how to use this tool, it makes taking the window handle off way easier:
Door stripped:
Here's a shot of the "craftsmanship" used to put this car together. Not the huge flat washers used on the hinge bolts because too much of the door was cut away to get the hinges to fit. Just one of the little things I will have to fix.
I had to figure out where I was going to mount the actuator for the remote locks. I have seen a few that were mounted in the same area as the factory actuators but they seemed to cause a slight bulge in the door panel. Fortunately on the XTC, the door skins are "deep" enough, I was able to mount the actuator on the outside of the door. This will work out good when I install key locks later on:
Once it was mounted, it was time to wire it. Now I am electrically challenged so it took me a little trial and error to get the wiring ran and routed and tied down.
My first attempt: Not too sanitary!
The final product:
Next on tap was installing the new outer dew wipe. The inner one was pretty well shot too but I have a few spares laying around so I was not too worried. I had a slight advantage with the door stripped but it was still a PITA. The heads of all the screws were rusted and stripped so I had to break out the vice grips and take each one out the slow way. The easiest way to do this was to yank out the old dew wipe so that I could get to the heads of the screws:
Then turn em out a little at a time:
The familiar "DIY_Stu" Dew Wipes:
They go in way easier than they come out and I must say, the fit is perfect:
I had some "spare" inner dew wipes that are in a lot better shape than the originals however, they are hard as a rock. Once the new outer was installed and the "spare" inner was installed, the window was very tight to roll up - more so near the top. I could even hear the inner one cracking. I will be ordering new inner dew wipes on Monday:
The original inner all cracked up:
The spare:
That's it for today. Tomorrow the plan is to finish the Driver side and get started on the Passenger side.
Starting off where I left it last night, I managed to get the drivers door nearly complete today. It fought me every step of the way but in the end, I won!
My dilema was the fact that there would be no way to "manually" unlock the doors from outside. If the battery went dead or the remote actuators died, I'd be stuck with no way to get into the car. I spent a lot of time looking at it today. I must have had the outer door skin on and off 2 dozen times.
The first issue to deal with today was the fact that they guy that built this car filled the inside of the door skin with foam. The foam itself did not add a lot of weight and is a good sound deadener but it was full of dirt and the bottom of the door skin weighted about 80 pounds. I used a bg knife and carved out a lot of the foam but I left some in the door for the sound dampening. I found a nice mouse nest and the source of the foul odor in the car.
Lots of foam in the door:
A nice little surprize:
Trimmed out a lot of foam:
Another issue I had to fix on the door skin were the fastners - well nuts. I can not remember what they are called but they are an aluminum well nut that uses a special tool to intstall them - crimps the nut and creates 2 flanges on either side of the panel. These work good in metal panels but they just get loose in fiberglass and make it near impossible to get the bolts out once they get loose. I spent a couple hours today running around to hardware stores and auto parts stores looking for a suitable replacement. I ended up getting some "U" nuts and body bolts. They worked out perfect:
While hunting for the "U" nuts, I found a keyed lock that I thought I could use for my "manual" door unlock. After another dozen or so on and offs of the door skin, I got the keyed lock mounted and devised a way to make it work. It took several attempts but the final setup works perfect. Now if the battery goes dead or the actuators quit working, at least the door can be unlocked with a key. This pic shows my initial attempt to get the key lock to work. I simply bent an "L" in the actuator rod so that the keyed lock arm would make contact and push the rod and assembly to the unlock position. The theory was good but there was too much movement in the assembly and the bent leg of the rod was too long and rubbed the inside of the door skin. Several more attempts of this idea were made until I came up with one that worked. The first one is the only one I took a pic of.
The outside of the keyed lock:
The inside of the keyed lock. The arm strikes a bend I made in the main lock rod and pushes it backwards to unlock the door. It only works for unlocking but it serves the purpose of an "emergency" unlock.
And the last thing I did today was install a new carbon fiber shift knob.
This evening I will epoxy some clip mounts back on the door panel and hopefully tommorow I can finish up the drivers door and get the passenger side on it's way. I suspect I will run into the same problems with foam, well nuts and door panel. I think the wiring will be straight forward.
I had to epoxy the metal bracket onto the door panel. I use PC7 and it is a great product. It takes a full 24 hours to set but it is great stuff. I have repaired a lot of showmobile chain cases with this stuff. When it's set, you can drill and tap bolthiles, macine it, etc. It does not like to cure well in the cold though. You have to put some heat to it to get it to cure.
The bracket had been hot glued to the panel and was beat and bent so bad I had to toss it and take one off another door panel. Once I got all the hot glue and crap cleaned off the panel, I mixed up some PC7. I had to get some heat into it just to mix it. Once it was mixed, I spread it on the door panel and placed the bracket. Using a block of wood and a spring clamp, I lamped the bracket to the door panel, applied the heat lamp and will wait till tomorrow evening to install it on the door. I also picked up a couple dozen New OEM door panel pins.
More of the same today. Managed to finish the driver door and the passenger door. Got the remotes wired up and everything is working great. The passenger door gave me some major fits. The rod from the outside handle to the door mechanisim was all fubar'd. I had to remanufacture a new one. The dew wipe was a piece of cake. I had the same problem with the passenger door panel. The metal brackets were bent and hot glued on - it was a mess. Got it in the shop epoxied up and curing.
Once the door panel is done, I'm done with the XTC. Any future work will be done by my 16 year old. He has a lot still to do and I'll help him along the way. While working on it today, we discovered that it will be neediong an exhaust system in the near future. He wants to get that done before it goes for paint. Now maybe I can get back to work on my V8 project.
The next installment of the rehab will be a 4.9 swap. After a lot of reading and searching, I have decided to put a 4.9 in the XTC. the 2 main reasons are number 1, local support - I have 2 good friends that have been there and are pretty good wrenches and number 2, availability of motor/trans. It looks like no matter what motor I go with, the cost will be close to the same - the 3800SC is a little more money and they are hard to come by locally. I will be pciking up the motor and trans next weekend. We will start the tear down this week. Hopefully we will be driving it by March?
Ouch, sorry to hear about the setback but, just think about how much more bad ass the car will be with a 4.9 in it I would love to look at doing a swap like that at some point in the future with my F40. Still trying to figure out the route I want to go with the drive train though.
I know you son won't like it, but there is an 88 rebuilt Duke listed in the mall for $300.00 posted by coolguyfish.
Thaks Rick - I'd be in the dog house big time as the wheels are already in motion for the 4.9 swap. Once it's finished, and if it's too much for Chris to handle, I may keep it for myself and give him the Formula. Hope he does not read this post......lol
Ouch, sorry to hear about the setback but, just think about how much more bad ass the car will be with a 4.9 in it I would love to look at doing a swap like that at some point in the future with my F40. Still trying to figure out the route I want to go with the drive train though.
Matt
Thanks for the reply. I want to put an F40 in my 86 V8 Coupe. I will make it happen but that will most likely be next year.
Spent the afternoon roaming the mega pull for swap parts. Found a couple donor vans for the needed axles and a 85 Fiero with a 4 spd that I will pull the axles out of. They had 14-92 - 95 Caddy's with 4.9's so there is an abundance of pieces and parts should I need them. The guy that checks all the parts going out has a 88 Fiero with an Alante motor in it. I've been chating with him back and forth for months. When I talked to him today and told him what I was up to, he told me that any parts I needed for the swap would be "Gratis"! Of course I'll have to help him do some suspension work on his 88 but my labor is cheap.
Does anyone know if the brackets, alternatrs, etc from the 4.5's will fit the 4.9's? There are 11 - 90 and back with 4.5's. I'll be heading North Saturday AM to pick up the motor and trans and what ever other goodies I can get my buddy to part with. I was dreading this swap but have spent the last few days pouring over build threads and swap articles and now have a pretty good feeling about it. It should go well and will be a great learning experience for me and my 16 year old son. I have decided that he will do most the work while I sit in the lawn chair, drink beer and stupidvise the swap. Stay tuned.
Spent the afternoon roaming the mega pull for swap parts. Found a couple donor vans for the needed axles and a 85 Fiero with a 4 spd that I will pull the axles out of. They had 14-92 - 95 Caddy's with 4.9's so there is an abundance of pieces and parts should I need them. The guy that checks all the parts going out has a 88 Fiero with an Alante motor in it. I've been chating with him back and forth for months. When I talked to him today and told him what I was up to, he told me that any parts I needed for the swap would be "Gratis"! Of course I'll have to help him do some suspension work on his 88 but my labor is cheap.
Does anyone know if the brackets, alternatrs, etc from the 4.5's will fit the 4.9's? There are 11 - 90 and back with 4.5's. I'll be heading North Saturday AM to pick up the motor and trans and what ever other goodies I can get my buddy to part with. I was dreading this swap but have spent the last few days pouring over build threads and swap articles and now have a pretty good feeling about it. It should go well and will be a great learning experience for me and my 16 year old son. I have decided that he will do most the work while I sit in the lawn chair, drink beer and stupidvise the swap. Stay tuned.
Pat
If you accidentally come back with that 3.4 you were telling me about, I wouldn't mind a bit. How about a V6 Getrag bellhousing while you are up there too?
Maybe a whole rebuildable Getrag? I want to experiment with one, and my "export" gearbox. Maybe make a combo of the two using gearing from both.
Hey Rick,
I got your voice mail. I left my phone in the office and did not pick it up till I left town at 5:30 am this morning. I almost called you but thought I'd better not. Anyway, I checked and he does not have a getrag. He does have an Izuzsu but I was pretty sure that would not work for what you want to do. I'm sure we can find one that needs rebuilding. Been home for about an hour. Got a trailer load of parts and I need to sort em out before the weather gets nasty. It's blowing like crazy on this side of town. I'll give you a call in tomorrow.
Just got back from picking up some swap parts for the XTC. Thanks Phil for all your help!
Ok, Here's a teaser:
In order to make the wife happy, I had to do a little sight seeing on the way home. I had her talked into just stopping at the Casino for a few hours but at the last minute, she changed her mind. Here's a few shots of our trip home.
I had to do some organizing this morning so I can start the 4.9 swap. Unfortunately, I will be doing this one outside. At least the weather will be warming up in the next few weeks. I had to clean out the garage so I would at least have room to store and later assemble the 4.9 on the cradle.
Moving the beast:
Organizing the garage:
Resting place until I can get the cradle out and ready for the swap:
OMG - What did I get myself into? Actually, the guy I got the motor from was already in the process of setting up for a Fiero swap. He has the harness already to lay out in the car. Everything is labled as to where it goes/connects to so I think it will be pretty straight forward. I have to say that I can not imagine having to do this from scratch. I have a new found respect for all of those folks that have "been there - done that". I truly appreciate all the hard work and thier willingness to share all the info needed to do this swap. I would never even think about attempting this if it had not already been done - Thanks to all you Pioneers.
So here's my check list of what I need for parts and a to do list. I will update this as I go through it.
Parts/Stuff to gather up: 2 - Outer M/T Fiero axle ends. - On thier way 2 - Lumina APV/Silhouette/Transport axles - Located and will pick them up this week. 1 - Flowmaster 1 in, 2 out muffler - on hand. Misc. Exhaust pipe/pieces/hangers/tips Front Motor Mount pieces and parts Trans Mounts Solder and heat shrink - related wiring goodies Idler pulley/belt pieces & parts V6 Fuel Pump
To Do: Remove the Duke - Toss the Duke Clean up the cradle. Set the 4.9 on the cradle - build the front mounts Get the ECM Chip programmed???????? Figure out the AC Figure out the idler pulley pieces and parts - install belt assemble the axles - check for fit up. Mock up the exhaust - tack all the pieces together Test fit it in the car - adjust the exhaust Pull it out, weld up the exhaust, tear it down for cleaning and painting reassemble, install back in car. Hook up the coolant lines, fuel lines, AC lines, oil cooler, etc. Start the wiring process - now I may take a tip from Sanderson and mock up a "firewall" out of plywood and work on the harness while the engine/cradle is still out of the car. It will be a PITA to do this with it installed in the car. I know there are things that I am missing and I'll take care of those when I run into them.
More to come.
Pat
[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 01-24-2010).]
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I would love to look at doing a swap like that at some point in the future with my F40. Still trying to figure out the route I want to go with the drive train though.
How about a V6 Getrag bellhousing while you are up there too?
