Hey Guys, Its Tori Swap is coming along, we are wrapping things up after a minor set back because electrical problem no caused by the swap...we WILL post pictures when we have time.
Lots Of Love Tori~https://www.fiero.nl/forum/icons/icon12.gif
------------------ Blue 1987 GT, Yellow T-top 1986 GT www.FierosandMore.comThis is a link to my personal web site, has pictures of all my projects and parts for sale.
During our build of the car, we detailed EVERYTHING for people watching. We spoke on cam, or talked with them via chat... Everything was well detailed and documented for the build.
Details.. I want to know what is going on.
I just find it funny that the "Guaranteed 2 day swap" is a LOT longer...
I am coming up this weekend, whether it is finished or not... If it is not finished, then I can't finish the remote starter, or the power door locks...
[This message has been edited by Synthesis (edited 12-09-2009).]
During our build of the car, we detailed EVERYTHING for people watching. We spoke on cam, or talked with them via chat... Everything was well detailed and documented for the build.
Details.. I want to know what is going on.
I agree & 2nd this motion. Chris, I hope you get to see the fiero when you vist Tyler & his family.
We found a good size draw on the battery and found the headlight motors are not switching off and just keep clicking. Both need to to be replaced or redone. A few other minor things too, nothing too major.
Stewart took apart the old engine to show Tyler the condition. I personally have not seen one that worn before and I have had a lot of fiero's apart.
We found a good size draw on the battery and found the headlight motors are not switching off and just keep clicking. Both need to to be replaced or redone. A few other minor things too, nothing too major.
Stewart took apart the old engine to show Tyler the condition. I personally have not seen one that worn before and I have had a lot of fiero's apart.
The headlight motor draw issue was one of the reasons I was coming up this weekend. It was very clearly documented in the original thread that this was a known issue.
Both motors were completely rebuilt. The torque switch is out of alignment inside, and I suspect the rubber "bump stops" on the motor assemblies are missing or flattened. These absorb the vibration that would cause a motor to twitch...
We unplugged the motors on Monday the 23rd for a reason. They should not have been plugged back in by anyone.
I'd like pictures of the 2.8 motor internals please... Post them here. Document everything.
Also, all engine parts that were put on need to be moved to the new Fiero ASAP. Preferably before Christmas... That way the job is done entirely... This includes the distributor, the MAP sensor cover, the Middle, and upper intakes.. If the air filter housing was changed in any way that won't allow the stock style air filter, the K&N filter needs to be moved as well.
Also, with the GT Fiero, you should not have a problem mounting a dog bone on the 3.4TDC... The Notchback won't clear because of the lower decklid, but the GT decklid will. So if you have any play in the engine mounting, put the dogbone back in.
Will the car be running by Saturday? I need it at Frazee Body and Glass in running and driving condition in order to finish things. I will be up regardless of whether the car is finished, but I will not be able to finish the few things if you guys aren't done.
[This message has been edited by Synthesis (edited 12-09-2009).]
The headlight motor draw issue was one of the reasons I was coming up this weekend. It was very clearly documented in the original thread that this was a known issue.
Both motors were completely rebuilt. The torque switch is out of alignment inside, and I suspect the rubber "bump stops" on the motor assemblies are missing or flattened. These absorb the vibration that would cause a motor to twitch...
We unplugged the motors on Monday the 23rd for a reason. They should not have been plugged back in by anyone.
I'd like pictures of the 2.8 motor internals please... Post them here. Document everything.
Also, all engine parts that were put on need to be moved to the new Fiero ASAP. Preferably before Christmas... That way the job is done entirely... This includes the distributor, the MAP sensor cover, the Middle, and upper intakes.. If the air filter housing was changed in any way that won't allow the stock style air filter, the K&N filter needs to be moved as well.
Also, with the GT Fiero, you should not have a problem mounting a dog bone on the 3.4TDC... The Notchback won't clear because of the lower decklid, but the GT decklid will. So if you have any play in the engine mounting, put the dogbone back in.
Will the car be running by Saturday? I need it at Frazee Body and Glass in running and driving condition in order to finish things. I will be up regardless of whether the car is finished, but I will not be able to finish the few things if you guys aren't done.
Im not taking pictures of the old engine if you want to see it come look at it personally. As for all the 2.8L parts They will be put in a box and be put on the new car at a later time. They were all removed with care, so don't worry. The car is for the most part done, it can be driven now. I am not using a dogbone on this swap. I did not see a need for it. I made custom engine mounts to not need the dogbone and make the engine look cleaner. We found a use for the MAP cover too, its safe, so don't worry.
I don't need you guys on my back about this swap, so ease off. I know what I am doing, and just because I am donating my time does not mean I'm not doing it right. I am doing it the way Jay and Tyler asked. Every decision was up to them and in the end they will be happy with the outcome, even if you guys don't agree.
Im not taking pictures of the old engine if you want to see it come look at it personally. As for all the 2.8L parts They will be put in a box and be put on the new car at a later time. They were all removed with care, so don't worry. The car is for the most part done, it can be driven now. I am not using a dogbone on this swap. I did not see a need for it. I made custom engine mounts to not need the dogbone and make the engine look cleaner. We found a use for the MAP cover too, its safe, so don't worry.
I don't need you guys on my back about this swap, so ease off. I know what I am doing, and just because I am donating my time does not mean I'm not doing it right. I am doing it the way Jay and Tyler asked. Every decision was up to them and in the end they will be happy with the outcome, even if you guys don't agree.
Mike
I am not trying to be on your back about this..
I simply want to make sure that this is fully documented for posterity...
There are MANY more people than just you and Stuart who have a vested interest in this car, whether it be parts donation, financial donations, plane tickets for others, or whatever.
I simply want documentation on the car for the sake of documentation. I am sorry if it came off a bit harsh, my day yesterday was the day from hell, and I may have taken it out on you.
As for the photos of the old engine, if you won't take them, I will. I know that people on here are still a bit "miffed" about the swap itself, because they felt it wasn't necessary. I am not worried about them, but to help put them at ease, I'd like to have the photos there to say "See? The engine was worn out."
That is all. So, if you could, snap some pictures of the parts that are worn, and we can move on. :P
[This message has been edited by Synthesis (edited 12-10-2009).]
Im not taking pictures of the old engine if you want to see it come look at it personally. As for all the 2.8L parts They will be put in a box and be put on the new car at a later time. They were all removed with care, so don't worry. The car is for the most part done, it can be driven now. I am not using a dogbone on this swap. I did not see a need for it. I made custom engine mounts to not need the dogbone and make the engine look cleaner. We found a use for the MAP cover too, its safe, so don't worry.
I don't need you guys on my back about this swap, so ease off. I know what I am doing, and just because I am donating my time does not mean I'm not doing it right. I am doing it the way Jay and Tyler asked. Every decision was up to them and in the end they will be happy with the outcome, even if you guys don't agree.
Mike
Man,
Take a step back and take a breath Mike. We just want to see picture's of what you been working on since last weekend. That's it. Were glad you know what your doing, but coming on here every other post so far has been you just talking about how bad this was and everything is coming along just fine. Please just post some picture's of this swap, then maybe people won't be getting a little worked up about.
Been working 14 hours or more a day lately. So I will do a complete build with pictures when I have enough time to sit and upload it all. Here's a picture the setup mostly done. Runs and drives, all guages work, Speedometer and TCC work correctly too.
------------------ Blue 1987 GT, Yellow T-top 1986 GT www.FierosandMore.comThis is a link to my personal web site, has pictures of all my projects and parts for sale.
As long as Tyler and family are getting what is requested we are cool. I am thinking it was easier for a larger group of people from the Build on Nov 21 to get pics and document things partly due to the number of people involved. I can understand communication issues. You are all appreciated for what you are doing to help. Maybe use the old fashioned phone cummunication method to clear things up?
*edit, PIC LOOKS NICE!
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-10-2009).]
boysatt, I understand you are busy. I am not trying to ride you on this. The picture looks great. That alone will help alleviate a lot of concerns that we had with the swap being done with enough time for Tyler to drive it and enjoy it.
Thank you for uploading it. It looks great! I eagerly await photos and build info.
Would like to see the mounts you guys devised. They may be able to be duplicated for other swappers.
I will still be up this weekend, and I would like to see the old engine or have you snap pictures. As I said, there are people that have an issue with the swap only from the "old engine is so badly worn out it barely runs" perspective, when it ran so beautifully and drove very nicely for us on the day of the reveal and the Monday/Tuesday afterward. Let's put those naysayers to rest with pictures.
Again, the engine looks GREAT in there. You guys have done good so far. I can't wait to see it and possibly, with Tyler's permission, drive it this weekend.
Question: Since the engine is new, what about the breakin period? The last thing we need is Tyler stomping on the gas on a brand new engine without the proper breakin.. You KNOW he will romp on that monster motor. LOL!
Oh! Quick question.. I noticed the cruise cable is not connected.. Do you have to modify a cable to make it work? Do you need a cable? I may have one here.
There is really no break in period. GM crate motors are broke in at the factory prior to being shipped. Basically its ready to take out a give her hell. I put the cruise servo back on for the time being. It will not have operational cruise for a bit yet, not sure even if it worked in the first place. A custom cable will need to be made and a different vacuum can will have to be mounted as there was no room for the original one in the stock location.
There is really no break in period. GM crate motors are broke in at the factory prior to being shipped. Basically its ready to take out a give her hell. I put the cruise servo back on for the time being. It will not have operational cruise for a bit yet, not sure even if it worked in the first place. A custom cable will need to be made and a different vacuum can will have to be mounted as there was no room for the original one in the stock location.
Ok. That works. It did work prior to the swap, I tested it myself when I drove it back from the school.
Depending on the ECM, you may be able to put the electronic servo on. It will work better I think.
You should be able to use an electric cruise modual fome an early 90's GM car. The ECM probably has cruise inputs and outputs similar to an 88 Fiero. No need for a vacuume canister or custom cable.
[This message has been edited by Fiero STS (edited 12-10-2009).]
The headlight motor draw issue was one of the reasons I was coming up this weekend. It was very clearly documented in the original thread that this was a known issue.
Both motors were completely rebuilt. The torque switch is out of alignment inside, and I suspect the rubber "bump stops" on the motor assemblies are missing or flattened. These absorb the vibration that would cause a motor to twitch...
The bump stops are all present and look like new - I'm guessing they came with the new gears. The D shaped seals are also in good shape and in their proper slots. Both motors are not hitting the limit switches consistently, causing the breakers to overheat and trip repeatedly. Are the coil springs used to put pressure on the limit switches the original ones in both motors? There is either too much frictional resistance on the motors or not enough power to screw them all the way up and down.
The bump stops are all present and look like new - I'm guessing they came with the new gears. The D shaped seals are also in good shape and in their proper slots. Both motors are not hitting the limit switches consistently, causing the breakers to overheat and trip repeatedly. Are the coil springs used to put pressure on the limit switches the original ones in both motors? There is either too much frictional resistance on the motors or not enough power to screw them all the way up and down.
I don't know if the springs are the same or not. They were rebuilt by rarew66. Thank you for the input!
The gears only come with the internal rubber bumpers and the screws holding the motor halves together. Then that means the switches may be "cockeyed" inside, like they were on my old 86 motors.
Let me dig through my bins. I may have some good switches stored that we can test with...
It just seems as if they aren't hitting the bottom limit.
They definitely are not hitting the top or bottom limits - the breakers keep tripping with the lights up and on as well as when down and off. Internally, everything looks as it should. Limit switches are square with their triggers and brushes are square with the commutator. A few revolutions of the screw after it has stopped moving alleviates the breaker from tripping, but isn't acceptable for this car. We cycled them quite a few times to get the grease evenly distributed, but the symptoms are still the same. If anyone has experienced this after a headlight motor rebuild, feel free to chime in.
They definitely are not hitting the top or bottom limits - the breakers keep tripping with the lights up and on as well as when down and off. Internally, everything looks as it should. Limit switches are square with their triggers and brushes are square with the commutator. A few revolutions of the screw after it has stopped moving alleviates the breaker from tripping, but isn't acceptable for this car. We cycled them quite a few times to get the grease evenly distributed, but the symptoms are still the same. If anyone has experienced this after a headlight motor rebuild, feel free to chime in.
I wonder if the stator assembly on the motor needs to be sanded smooth or cleaned up to take care of any polishing on the brush contact surface. Might that be part of the problem?
Reduced torque on the motor because of a surface that isn't "fresh"?
I need to make a very public apology to Stuart Restad of Restad Repair...
During the original thread, there was a photo of his 3.4 swap on his wife's Fiero that really caused some concern with many members of the Fiero community...
I had a revelation today that helped me realize that I was one of those members, and I have wronged Stuart, Mike (boysatt) and a few others by judging them without truly knowing them or their drive to meet and exceed the efforts that were invested in the Tyler Project with the original build.
I know when I am wrong, and I am willing to say "I am sorry."
Stuart, I realized today that an auto mechanic spends more time and effort on their client's cars to make sure they are perfect than they do on their own. I should never have judged your work quality and craftsmanship ahead of time. I was wrong for this. I am sorry, and I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me.
boysatt, based on my limited experience with you on this forum, and what I have learned about you in our mutual journey on PFF, I also misjudged you. You have put a lot of effort and heart and soul into the engine swap, and it looks beautiful. I am sure it runs as well as it looks, and I look forward to seeing it in person. Please accept my apologies. You don't have to like me, but I ask that you at the very least consider forgiving me for passing judgment based on text on a web forum, and what others have said. I should have never listened to them.
I spoke with Stuart tonight, and I firmly believe him when he states the old engine is worn. It has 140k+ on it, and even a rebuild would be questionable on it. I am fully confident in the work that they have done, and believe that it meets the ideals that were set when we built the car... "Perfection isn't good enough"..
There were MANY people who participated in the swap that took time off of work, dug deep into their own pockets, and made sure that the engine went in without difficulty, and that everything worked. To the rest, I do not know who you are, or how much you participated, but thank you.
Tyler now has himself a beautiful car with a powerful motor, and the reliability to get him through anything with it .
I was wrong. And for that, I am sorry.
The build, the swap, everything is about Tyler. Building the dream that he dreamed, and making it more than he could have ever imagined.
Not sure if the limit switch actuator fingers were taken off the shaft or not. I have seen these upside down and will not make proper contact with the limit switch. Also I have seen the springs that seperate the two fingers collapsed and do not put enough tension on the fingers to actuate the switch. I have seen a few GM gen 1 headlight motors with inferior springs too. Also could be the contacts in the switches are dirty.
One other thing I did not see mentioned. Sorry if it was already thought of but are the rubber grommets under the knob/top of the housing seated correctly? If not. these will "limit" the movement of the shaft and will not allow the limit switch to be engaged by the finger.
I need to make a very public apology to Stuart Restad of Restad Repair...
During the original thread, there was a photo of his 3.4 swap on his wife's Fiero that really caused some concern with many members of the Fiero community...
I had a revelation today that helped me realize that I was one of those members, and I have wronged Stuart, Mike (boysatt) and a few others by judging them without truly knowing them or their drive to meet and exceed the efforts that were invested in the Tyler Project with the original build.
I know when I am wrong, and I am willing to say "I am sorry."
I am sorry as well... it must be a male control issue... not there to see, must not be getting done right. Sorry guys.
Just let me know when you are going to go up and maybe I can reschedule then. Maybe when Andy comes up in Jan?
