Originally posted by Rickady88GT: How is yours turning out?
The car is running great, but DoD won't work till I install the BMC for the brake switch input. So I have put DoD off to the side for now and just enjoying the car.
The car is running great, but DoD won't work till I install the BMC for the brake switch input. So I have put DoD off to the side for now and just enjoying the car.
How much of that are you willing to install? If you don't get it all, I would guess that the end result will be the same. A -BRAKE- light in the dash and a shutdown of select systems.
I removed two front wheel bearing speed sensors from a W body and I installed them into a set of front 88 Fiero wheel bearings. I linked two of the Brake Control Modual inputs to one of them and the other two BCM wheel speed sensor inputs to the other. So the front right wheel sends a signal to two inputs and the left front wheel speed sensor sends a speed signal to the other two inputs. This works perfectly below 50-55mph. But my front wheels are significantly smaller than the stock Monte Carlo wheels. The system detects a different wheel speed input from the wheel speed sensors (smaller wheel turns more times per mile than the BCM expects to see) and the trans speed sensor. The red -BRAKE- light turns on along with the ANTI-LOCK light, TRACTION CONTROL light and an ANOYING "dinging" alarm that lasts for about 30 seconds and runs thru the stereo speakers. The D.I.C also sends several messages at the same time and wont go away till I respond to them by scrolling thru them to clear them.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 08-29-2013).]
Originally posted by Rickady88GT: How much of that are you willing to install?
The bare minimum to get the right brake sensor signal. I would prefer a stand alone controller to send it to minimize the excessive wiring the stock BCM will require. Haven't looked into it much and probably won't until the end of next summer.
The bare minimum to get the right brake sensor signal. I would prefer a stand alone controller to send it to minimize the excessive wiring the stock BCM will require. Haven't looked into it much and probably won't until the end of next summer.
I hate to sound like the bad guy but I cant imagine what could be left out? The trans speed sensor could be amplified and linked to a simulator that could send a signal to each of the BCM wheel speed inputs? And I guess the rest "could be" tricked I guess?
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 08-29-2013).]
Good news and bad news at the Dyno today: The bad news is that the manifold swap I did does not appear to be what I thought it was The good news is that the manifold is an LS6, better than the LS1 that it was suposed to be
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 10-31-2013).]
So what kind of numbers did you run? Something between 260 and 280 whp would by my guess (on a dynojet).
330hp 304tq EDIT OK, I screwed up. I flipped the TQ and HP I have 304HP and 330TQ at the rear wheels. That is exactly what it came from the factory with at the crank. So I can say that I gained back what ever the drivetrain loss was, maybe 15%-20% with the "mods" that I did. If I use the low end of 15% DriveTrain loss, I gained about 45HP at the crank? This is with a free flowing exhaust, LS6 manifold (stock rails, injectors and TB) and a tune. Will post the chart and vid when I can. Seems like it should be 330tq and 304 hp at the wheels?
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 10-31-2013).]
We did about 8 dyno pulls. The end result was not the highest power output, because of the fuel trim changes that were done. It was running a bit lean, so after it was adjusted a little fatter the power came down a bit. But this is at a "safe" ratio. The first few pulls made a good chart, but the last pull was the worst because of a throtle lift, and back on it. So it is the worst "looking" chart I have seen just because of the way the graph shows the lift and recovery.
The base line #001 was 302TQ and the final pull #006 was 334TQ The base line #001 was 293HP and the final pull #006 was 305HP some of the pulls were not charted.
Many of the stock LS4's in the W-bodies are seeing 240-250 hp to the wheels, so 304 whp is quite good for just a cat back, intake manifold swap, and tune.
Many of the stock LS4's in the W-bodies are seeing 240-250 hp to the wheels, so 304 whp is quite good for just a cat back, intake manifold swap, and tune.
Yes, I am happy with it. I will say that I have one "extra" mod that could have helped, I have smaller diameter wheels. It is kind of like a gear change.
This is the car ready to go on the Dyno and the messed up looking dyno sheet. The sheet is gagged because the operator lifted the throttle for some reason. I don't know why this is the one they printed for me, because they did at least 8 runs. This was the last one of the day so I guess that is why I got this one and it is the only one that did not go smooth?
OK, after driveing the LS4 with an LS6 manifold, a tune and no DOD for at least 1,000 miles I figured out the new MPG to be at 21mpg with no attempt to change my driving style for better economy. I LOOOOOVE the DOD delete and new shift points. The car is even more fun to drive. Smoother and quieter and noticably more powerfull after the tune. But it is a little louder than it used to be, but that is OK with me. For some reason they could not take out or adjust the Rev limiter in P or N so it can only rev up to about 2,500rpm and the speedo is 17mph slower than accual speed at 60 (cheked by GPS) and he tried to fix it twice? I am going to take it back again to see what can be done about it. It works fine for a few miles and then resets to a factory setting even while I am driving it? I have never heard of this? I was watching the "instant MPG" on the D.I.C. and it was at 25mpg on the freeway at about 65mph calibrated by the tune useing GPS (I know the instant is not a true and acurate measurement, but it is close enough) and for no reason at all it dropped to 20mpg. I checked the speedo and it was way of again? It reset while I was driving? I dont know if any other changes in the tune were affected, but I will have it checked when I take it in the next time. I think the next mod will be a shift kit.
Thanks, I am stumped on my brake issue though? I really hate the way they feel and cant figure out why they feel so spongy?
Could be so many different things.... air in the combo valve, air in the rear pistons (they can be hard to bleed), sticking slides, bulging hoses, grooved rotors with new pads (they won't bed properly), pad kickback due to brake rotor runout (check with a dial indicator on BOTH sides of the rotor) or wheel bearing deflection, flexing caliper brackets, out-of-adjustment rear calipers or frozen ebrake screws, missing anti-rotation pins from rear calipers causing the self-adjustment to not work and give you too much pad clearance... Have you checked for all those?
For bleeding, you could just open all four bleeders and keep pouring fluid into the MC reservoir. Gravity bleed it until you're sure there's no air left.
I had the spongy pedal for years and it used to drive me crazy. My issue was that they were never bled properly. I ended up buying "speed bleeder" screws for the calipers and bled them myself. Pedal is much firmer now and I'm very happy with the speed bleeders. They work great and prevent air being sucked back in when bleeding.
Originally posted by Steven Snyder: air in the combo valve,
maybe? What is the best way to bleed it?
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Originally posted by Steven Snyder: air in the rear pistons (they can be hard to bleed),
I dont think it is this I took the calipers off and removed the pistons for inspection. I then filled them and tapped the air out before installing them. No change at all.
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Originally posted by Steven Snyder: sticking slides, bulging hoses, grooved rotors with new pads (they won't bed properly), pad kickback due to brake rotor runout (check with a dial indicator on BOTH sides of the rotor)
I had one sticking rear slide and replaced the caliper=no change SS lines and good rotors and pads. There is no vibration or feed back thru the pedal.
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Originally posted by Steven Snyder: or wheel bearing deflection,
Not sure on this one. I cant feel any play in the wheels with the car lifted.
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Originally posted by Steven Snyder: flexing caliper brackets,
Could be? I have WCF 12' C4 rotors and the adaptors could open the door for flexing because it hangs the caliper out further from the wheel bearing?
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Originally posted by Steven Snyder: out-of-adjustment rear calipers or frozen ebrake screws, missing anti-rotation pins from rear calipers causing the self-adjustment to not work and give you too much pad clearance... Have you checked for all those?
Yes, this is all good and the Ebrake works very well. At freeway speed I can safely stop the car but it does takes longer distance to stop.
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Originally posted by Steven Snyder: For bleeding, you could just open all four bleeders and keep pouring fluid into the MC reservoir. Gravity bleed it until you're sure there's no air left.
I have done one wheel at a time like this. started at the shortest brake line to the longest.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 11-26-2013).]
I had the spongy pedal for years and it used to drive me crazy. My issue was that they were never bled properly. I ended up buying "speed bleeder" screws for the calipers and bled them myself. Pedal is much firmer now and I'm very happy with the speed bleeders. They work great and prevent air being sucked back in when bleeding.
This does drive me crazy, but I have used the age old two person bleeding system MANY times. Never got any better no matter what I did.
What brake pads do you have and how much material is left on them?
What rotors, and what condition are they in?
The rotors are in great shape but I know this is not it because the prblem is there even in Park. The only way to make it feel better is to turn the engine off any pump the barkes to let out the vacuume from the booster. Then the feel is much better, but that may just because it has MUCH less mechanical advantage? I have wanted to drive it with the booster vac disconected, but never got around to it.
Just have to say that the car is still running great and driving it is a blast. So far the engine swap is working perfectly. Just wish I could get around to the 6 speed swap. I drive it MUCH more now with the LS4 then I did with the LX5.
What ever happened with this project? Never saw the final. Or is it done?
Sorry, no updates, but I have been racking up the miles on it. LOVE it. What exactly do you want to know about? The interior is not done. Accually the car is not done yet. I have not worked on it in 3 years or so.
You might be able to use https://archive.org/ to look up the pages on this site (or others) when the pictures were still there. Then you can save them from that Archive and re-upload them someplace (and make backups!)
Hey, bump up.. Any issues getting smogged on renewals? I want to do the LS4 in the car I will be getting, just seeing if the tune made a difference. Love your work, mine will NOT be that nice, I'm sure.
Hey, bump up.. Any issues getting smogged on renewals? I want to do the LS4 in the car I will be getting, just seeing if the tune made a difference. Love your work, mine will NOT be that nice, I'm sure.
Thanks, no I had no issues getting it to pass the regular smog inspections. They just scan the sticker that the ref installs in your door jamb and then the dyno/tail pipe test. With this new label, your car is no longer a Fiero at the smog shop, it is the donor car. It will not be smogged as a Fiero any longer. So the fuel line pinch test is not used. If you tune out ANY emissions programming, you will be failed. The transmission is as much a part of emissions equipment as the engine is. They are inseparable.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 07-14-2020).]
I highly recommend getting an entire donor car to do a California emissions legal LS4 engine swap. But this is not an absolute necessity, just a convenience of having ALL of the parts from the same car that you know runs fine before the swap. If it no longer runs fine after the swap,....well I guess you screwed something up LOL. But mismatched parts are not always compatible with one another. Having documentation that proves the components came factory assembled helps the ref validate the swap. Mismatched parts may require you to validate the compatibility of the parts. I had to do this for the Cat and airfilter box at my expense and time, then make another appointment to show the verification. Pain in the but, but my next one should go smoother knowing now what I did not know then.
Thanks for the reply, California is a pain, I hope to somehow circumvent re-smogging mine after the first time, Maybe an Address in Arcata(by Eureka) after first time. They should change the law. Someone tried. CA AB 210 was voted down this feb, would have relaxed the laws to 1983, instead of 1975 for exempt, That wouldn't help Fiero owners yet, but it's a step in the right direction. The bill had a thing in there about too high cost to make a car pass earning the car a legitimate waiver, and no more smogging for that vehicle.
Thanks for the reply, California is a pain, I hope to somehow circumvent re-smogging mine after the first time, Maybe an Address in Arcata(by Eureka) after first time. They should change the law. Someone tried. CA AB 210 was voted down this feb, would have relaxed the laws to 1983, instead of 1975 for exempt, That wouldn't help Fiero owners yet, but it's a step in the right direction. The bill had a thing in there about too high cost to make a car pass earning the car a legitimate waiver, and no more smogging for that vehicle.
If the years of emissions testing does come down, the value of the Fiero will go up for sure.
But getting the car to pass emissions the first time will require a good bit of work. I originally planned on doing my swap in such a way that I can swap out the auto for a manual. But my plans changed, partly because I did not have a complete list of parts needed to do the changeover. So I just did the auto swap. I have the F40 but I want to Crack it open and do a gearset change and possibly a limited slip differential first.
I needed to change the oil in my LS4 but didn't have the time to do it myself. So for the first time ever, I took it in to a service station and had them do it. I drove up and a few employers noticed the sound but did not realize it was from a Fiero. Around here we have LOTS of v8 muscle cars with a healthy rumble. So I drove into the shop and that got attention. The guy says "I thought I heard a v8" as he went to the front of the car to lift the hood from the front bumper side. LOL, I almost laughed out loud but kept it together. I had already popped the deck lid and pointed at the back of the car "the engine is back there". He walked back and opened the lid "WHOH LOOK AT THIS" Every employee at the shop was taking pictures of it. Even the car in the next bay was looking. Lots of questions, comments and great jobs. As I think back to the day I learned about an LS4 for sell, I remember my wife saying "put it in the Fiero". I asked "why, I am.happy with the ShortStar?" She said "for the sound". That sound still is one of the biggest advantages of the swap. It sounds great even when it isn't even moving.
I needed to change the oil in my LS4 but didn't have the time to do it myself. So for the first time ever, I took it in to a service station and had them do it. I drove up and a few employers noticed the sound but did not realize it was from a Fiero. Around here we have LOTS of v8 muscle cars with a healthy rumble. So I drove into the shop and that got attention. The guy says "I thought I heard a v8" as he went to the front of the car to lift the hood from the front bumper side. LOL, I almost laughed out loud but kept it together. I had already popped the deck lid and pointed at the back of the car "the engine is back there". He walked back and opened the lid "WHOH LOOK AT THIS" Every employee at the shop was taking pictures of it. Even the car in the next bay was looking. Lots of questions, comments and great jobs. As I think back to the day I learned about an LS4 for sell, I remember my wife saying "put it in the Fiero". I asked "why, I am.happy with the ShortStar?" She said "for the sound". That sound still is one of the biggest advantages of the swap. It sounds great even when it isn't even moving.
I love hearing about experiences like that. Really makes me appreciate the Fiero in general, and engine swaps in particular.
Sorry, failed 
