Wow... That is a nice and clean block!... Do you have a shot of the exhaust route or drawing you plan on using? We are planning to try to do the muffler collection at the rear without doing too much trunk cutting !! LOL
I should have some more pics tomorrow... Also, I am looking for a good sounding exhaust... minus cat of course as the old girl drops off smog tests this year,, Flowmaster is out.. bad experience and fellow Fiero guys experience as well... Looking for a warm, vette like sound... smooth but aggressive... Ideas anyone....? A real full note but not raspy sound on any end..
I know... I ask a lot of questions.... PS... I really like Ricks video...and a sound something like his maybe a note lower?
Jeff
Thanks. My LS4 exhaust is made up of 3" exhaust dougnuts for the tight turns and 2.5 in the T after the cat then into 2.5 pipe. The cat is 3" in and out and the tips are C6 Vette SS resonater type. I have no mufler and the PCM has a stock tune with no codes for the "free flowing" exhaust. And I can hear the radio with my windows down at any speed. I am REALLLLY pleased with the exhaust on this one. I have no trunk cutting done but I did use a hammer to dent/clearance for the two flanges. I used two stock Fiero trunk heat sheilds stacked on each other between the cat and trunk and I have some aluminum backed fiberglass under the trunk carpet and I header wrapped the entire exhaust system from heads to tips ( I took off the LS4 heat shields first then put them back on after I wrapped the pipes so they look stock). I can stuff two or three days worth of stuff in the trunk for my wife and I without and trouble. I dont see any need to cut the trunk and it sounds fine with a cat in place of the muffler.
So yes, I'm currently doing a 5.3L Fiero.I'm using the F40 but not using anything from Archie on this one. I found the '00 Z28 exhaust manifolds are an excellent fit, I have pics if you're interested.
I didn't relize there were so many fiero nuts around here. Can you give me info on the fiero club. I will be watching this one close. I met Joe couple years ago great guy. I'm finally in full swing on my own 87. If theres anything I can help with drop me a line.
Oh yes... and by the Paul... you bring your car again to NW Fierofest and the competition will be awful stiff... yours is one the nicest cars I have ever seen... and... I don't want to park next to you this year!! LOL... Just kidding of course... Hope to see you there... we had a ball last year!
Jeff
Well, provided I don't blow up or break anything major between now and August 14th I'll be there for sure Its kind of funny, up until about 3 years ago we had very few engine swaps at the show, this year I'm expecting 5+.
Had a very progressive weekend!! Joe and I worked both days and made a ton of headway... Here are some shots of progress... The big news is that the cradle, spindles and suspension pieces are all ready to go to the powder coaters on Monday... In fact, beside learning a great deal about fabrication Joe showed me a really cool trick to remove old suspension rubber....
Here it is... this may have been mentioned before and if so please forgive me but I want to share as it took 30 minutes to do ALL of the suspension components! Here is the trick....
Use a propane torch, get a big coffee can, a chair and a beer... Sit in the chair... prop part on the top edge of can... sip beer.... fire up the torch.... heat up the metal sleeves inside the rubber... don't start the rubber on fire... Keep heating for around 2 or 3 minutes and when you hear the sound of frying bacon.... push the sleeve down and out in the coffee can... Then mount the sleeveless piece in a vise and use a screwdriver to pry or drive the remaining rubber out of the component. Works like a charm and is easier on the neighborhood smell wise.... Great tip Joe!!
Anyway.... Here is the "cradle and engine mount" set up from yesterdays tack welding and fitting, to todays final test mount of the engine into the cradle. Joe ground off and cleaned up the cradle and it is ready to go! Engine sits perfect!
First mount ready to go....
One of the corners....
And another....
And the last with tack welds....
Here is the cradle back out from under doing so final inspection....
Measure 12 times.... weld into place once... LOL Not onto the case of course... onto the cradle....
Joe triple checked the axle line ups.... looking very nice... The axles came out of 6 or 7 GM cars... I can't remember but it was a hodgepodge of a number of cars... All I remember is Buick, Berretta, Fiero... Bonneville? But don't quote me.. They are a perfect fit and should last a long time... Look like new after Joe got new boots on and they were cleaned up....
OK... all the final measures done and the 88 cradle takes the final welds securing everything into place.... He has a great welding setup and knows how to use it!! Welds are strong and he did a bit of gussetting "here and there" to make sure we have no strength issues.. Excellent fabrication skills!! Thanks Joe!
Test fitting the final welds! Perfect fit! Has good clearance all the way. axles lined up and the oil filter has a little coved area and looks like stock location.
Hey Joe... that blue light looks cool...... ouch my eyes.....
Alot of progress made ....
And BTW, Isolde, thanks for the pics.... After today I can see the difference between those and what I have stock.... Rick, We are following your lead on the exhaust... Cat only with minimal trunk invasion.....I hope mine sounds as good!! Loved the test drive video sound... Sweet! Hope to have the 2.8 out next weekend.....
Oh, and "JPH87," Joe does remember you and your generosity by giving him a ride... I will let you know when the next club event is... We have a great group and do a lot of fun stuff when the weather is good!!
Thanks for all the comments and tips!!... More updates this week!
Jeff
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[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-05-2012).]
What about the starter? was looking but I do not see the fix. What about axles on F40 and auto?
Those pics were from before I started thinking about the starter. I have no helpful pics yet. AV8Fiero started a thread in tech discussion, on LS4 / F40, I've made no progress recently that isn't in that thread. Axles for F40 trans are covered in Joseph Upson's F40 thread, and in Fieroguru's SBC / F40 thread, both also in tech discussion. If you're doing an LS4 with auto, see the build thread of blckcfy's car for axle info.
You are definately on your way there Jeff. I hear that Aaron is making a bit of progress also. This will be one of the greatest fiero seasons ever! We will need to gather all the Inland Northwest Fieros, and take a cruise through some mountain roads. That would be an almost news worthy sight here in the Spokane/CDA region.
Dogcreek.... I call BS on the pic of you Joe welding in the garage. 1) I can see a garage floor. 2) There are no Fieros in aforementioned garage. 3) I do not see a stack of motors and transmissions anywhere. 4) There are no doggies wandering around joyed to the core to see the humans. 5) I also do not see Joe's beautiful Wife offering up sandwiches and cookies.
So you see, I believe that these photos are doctored up by a professional that truely knows what they are doing.
Yo Tony!!! (love saying that!) In my best Jersey accent... or Detroit? not sure what it is!! LOL
Yeah... Joe has the place looking good doesn't he? We did a pickup after we finished on Sunday and are ready for the car.. The suspension and cradle is off to the powder coaters so it won't be long now.. I know you have a lot going on but if interested, we will be having a pulling party this weekend.. Interested?
Did see Anne and she is doing great... This is going to be a great season!!! Talk to you soon!
Hey Jeff, cool paint and excellent choice in motors. LOL I will defiantly be following your thread and I liked your Idea of a forum for LS4 Fiero's...
On another note, have you figured out how your going to mount the alternator? I would like to rotate mine running reverse like this one but so far this picture is the only info I can find.
Frank
[This message has been edited by TurboTec (edited 04-14-2010).]
Originally posted by Dogcreek: .... He has a great welding setup and knows how to use it!! Welds are strong and he did a bit of gussetting "here and there" to make sure we have no strength issues.. Excellent fabrication skills!! Thanks Joe!
Those pics were from before I started thinking about the starter. I have no helpful pics yet. AV8Fiero started a thread in tech discussion, on LS4 / F40, I've made no progress recently that isn't in that thread. Axles for F40 trans are covered in Joseph Upson's F40 thread, and in Fieroguru's SBC / F40 thread, both also in tech discussion. If you're doing an LS4 with auto, see the build thread of blckcfy's car for axle info.
Thanks, I will look at those threads, in most build threads the most important things about the swaps are always left out.
[This message has been edited by F355spider (edited 04-14-2010).]
Thanks TurboTec.... We are doing the alt mount exactly like in the picture... Chris at WCF has been a great resource and talked to Joe about it and it seems to me to be the best place to put it. We are doing a battery box upfront and my wife decided for me that we are doing the Power steering upgrade... (more to come on that... lots of juicy details!!)
Kurt... I will have to ask Joe about the flux core... but you are probably right... looks to me like one lead out of the wire feeder.... Flux core? Perhaps... Joe can pipe in or I will ask... LOL i know zilch about welding stuff... except not to look at it.... "pretty colors equal burned eyes"
F355.... You are asking some great questions for the manual crowd... Thanks!
This weekend? Out comes the 2.8... sold to my buddy Andy.... going into an S-10... with a butt load of rebuild and induction stuff... We will have a tranny and 86 cradle up for grabs... cheap
I have a new F40 but really leaning to going Auto with a 5.3 because of Starter. But I also notice you left out the axle part of the swap. Just saying in a swap thread the wiring, ecm, mounts, hardware and axles are the most people need to know. I just notice that most build threads just skip over them. I am enjoying all the LS4 threads this swap has a lot of potential. I hope one day I can do this swap in my car.
I haven't gotten my axles yet, but I'm just gonna spend the $900 for custom length Cobalt SS upgrade replacement axles from DriveShaftShop. That price gets their stage 2, which they rate at 400 HP. Those don't re-use any GM pieces, every piece is upgraded. They can also do stage 4, rated at 800 HP, but the F40 is rated for 300 ft-lbs, so I'm gonna try stage 2. The starter is a little problem, sure, but it's better than having the auto eat another 9% of the engine's output. Plus the F40 is lighter, which also helps handling. And consider that if you divide sixth gear by first gear, you get a better number than if you divide the 4T65E-HD's 4th by it's first. In the 65E-HD's favor, it can be geared taller for lower rpm on the interstate. With the F40, you're currently locked into 3.546 (final) times 0.623 (sixth) as the tallest cruise ratio available.
Thanks TurboTec.... We are doing the alt mount exactly like in the picture... Chris at WCF has been a great resource and talked to Joe about it and it seems to me to be the best place to put it. We are doing a battery box upfront and my wife decided for me that we are doing the Power steering upgrade... (more to come on that... lots of juicy details!!)
Very cool, just make sure you post pictures of how you mated the alternator, and please elaborate further on the other details... LOL
Originally posted by Isolde: In the 65E-HD's favor, it can be geared taller for lower rpm on the interstate. With the F40, you're currently locked into 3.546 (final) times 0.623 (sixth) as the tallest cruise ratio available.
Unless you got the newer version, then 6th gear is 0.71 (about the same as the Getrag 5th). But it can still be re-geared if you really want to. MT2 is 0.62 and MU9 is 0.71.
Progress so far looks great, keep up the good work.
I'm going to throw this out there for all the LS4 swappers, you guys, Isolde, Turbotec, and anyone else... I'm not sure what resources you guys have for your electrical info. I have full access to all the GM wiring schematics via GM Service information - being a tech has its perks. Anyways if you guys need any schematics just shoot me a PM
I will give you a call tomorrow Dogcreek. I may be in for a little engine pulling. I have to hit Aaron up first. He had asked me something the other day, and I just can't remember what it was pertaining to? Is your car already at Joe's?
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 04-15-2010).]
Progress so far looks great, keep up the good work.
I'm going to throw this out there for all the LS4 swappers, you guys, Isolde, Turbotec, and anyone else... I'm not sure what resources you guys have for your electrical info. I have full access to all the GM wiring schematics via GM Service information - being a tech has its perks. Anyways if you guys need any schematics just shoot me a PM
I hope this isn't hijacking, but I think the answer might be of interest to many. Wiring is necessary, but can you offer any help, even if it isn't free, with getting the VATS disabled in these junkyard ECMs we're getting for our 5.3s? Not change anything else, just that one thing. From there we can calibrate the speedometer or adjust for a CAI with a Diablosport Predator, or drive the car to a local chassis dyno with LS2Edit (for LS4 guys) or similar. Because at present, it seems I either buy into LS1Edit myself, and jump in over my head, or send it out for a mail order tune. Not cool. And if you can help, would it be possible to, say, put an '01 LS6 / T56 tune into an engine computer from, say, an '01 truck LM7 / 4L60E?
I hope this isn't hijacking, but I think the answer might be of interest to many. Wiring is necessary, but can you offer any help, even if it isn't free, with getting the VATS disabled in these junkyard ECMs we're getting for our 5.3s? Not change anything else, just that one thing. From there we can calibrate the speedometer or adjust for a CAI with a Diablosport Predator, or drive the car to a local chassis dyno with LS2Edit (for LS4 guys) or similar. Because at present, it seems I either buy into LS1Edit myself, and jump in over my head, or send it out for a mail order tune. Not cool. And if you can help, would it be possible to, say, put an '01 LS6 / T56 tune into an engine computer from, say, an '01 truck LM7 / 4L60E?
Sorry I cant offer much help in this matter, but it is not that easy with the LS4. The LS4 has passkey + with a BCM and TCM. So the majority of "swappers" would benefit most by a reflash that would delete them all and still function correctly with a manual. I don't know all the ins and outs but I do know it ain't easy.
The BCM and TCM should both be delete-able if going with the F40 or a 282, or even an F23. We don't need a computer that can roll down our power windows. Trash the BCM on principle alone. The LS4 engine can be run by an '05.5-up LS2 program. Change the reluctor wheel on the crank, from the stock 58x to the older 24x, and it can be run by any LS1 program.
[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 04-16-2010).]
Unfortunately, on GM TIS2 Web (programming software) we are unable to go in and delete sections of software. We can program modules based on RPO options but not select/deselect anything included in the factory programming.
I wish I could be more help on the VTD, unfortunately the only options I see is with aftermarket tuning software, or to actually include the VTD system in the vehicle.
Originally posted by Nebiros88: I wish I could be more help on the VTD, unfortunately the only options I see is with aftermarket tuning software, or to actually include the VTD system in the vehicle.
Another option to "deleting" the PK+3 system, is to remove the connection to the antenna in the ignition switch, and insert a small circuit which always sends the correct value to the computer. Though I think in most if not all PK3 cars, the key handling is done in the BCM and not the ECM. So you'd still need the BCM to process the signal and then tell the ECM to start. There's a little more info in Darth's LS4/TapShift swap thread.
Unfortunately, on GM TIS2 Web (programming software) we are unable to go in and delete sections of software. We can program modules based on RPO options but not select/deselect anything included in the factory programming.
I wish I could be more help on the VTD, unfortunately the only options I see is with aftermarket tuning software, or to actually include the VTD system in the vehicle.
So you could put the 'vette M/T program in a truck A/T ECM, but it includes the VATS? That's still a HUGE step in the right direction if you can do that. How much $ would you have to charge us for that, if we shipped our ECMs to you?
[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 04-16-2010).]
Hi Tony, Nope... Change o' plans...we are going to pull next weekend... Joe is working on the 3.4 so I may go over and help on that... Give me a ring... We gotta do something Fiero oriented this weekend!! She is still here at the barn 100% operational.....
Can't wait to see your car with all the cool TLG stuff...
Isolde.... No worries about a hijack!! It is all good... I learn something from every post here!! Thank you! LS4 fiends of the world will unite here!!!
Jeff
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[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-05-2012).]
So you could put the 'vette M/T program in a truck A/T ECM, but it includes the VATS? That's still a HUGE step in the right direction if you can do that. How much $ would you have to charge us for that, if we shipped our ECMs to you?
There are a couple of problems with that. Main problem with that, not all ECMs are created equal... Different ECMs are internally built different per application. Do you have GM part # off your truck A/T ECM? On Monday I will check with our parts department if those part numbers are cross compatible. Second problem with that... ECM/BCM/TCM/VTD/etc etc etc all vehicle modules are programmed in vehicle through the OBD2 DLC - modules can't be programmed externally. In order to program any modules for people I would have to find the vehicle capable of the programming you want, remove the factory ECM, install another ECM, program it and reverse. While that’s no big deal to me, we don't always have a vette, a manual vette for that matter, and it would be something I would have to do after hours because the bosses would frown on pulling vehicles to do programming for reasons other than repair.
So let’s see if the part numbers are compatible, and we'll try and work out other details.
I'll PM you my PCM code. Then if anything between us seems relevant to this thread, I can move it back from PMs to the thread. Thank you for explaining how it works, that seems like it could be helpful to everyone.
Poly and rear bearings here Thursday... Powder coating back by Friday I hope (pics) Andy coming to get the 2.8 on Saturday (equals a new radiator) Joe got the paddle shifter switches today (woo hoo)
So, Tony or anybody interested, we will be yanking the 2.8 Saturday (Tony I will call you back, I promise)
Now (me).... take deep breaths... It is all coming together!
OK... it was a long week... but finally Saturday came... Started at about 10:15 am or so... Had a great drive from Spokane to CDA to Joe's. The car ran like a champ... Had my last "second thoughts" a few minutes from Joe's and knew this was the right thing.. Almost felt bad for my car as the "surgery" she was to undergo was major by any stretch... The LS4 and tranny, Tap shifters, new suspension and brakes, power steering conversion and much more....
A big thanks to Chris at WCF for spending time talking to Joe about some of the challenges we need to overcome.. But the plans are now complete and off we go.. I Can't thank Joe Sokol enough (Fieroking)... great mechanic, welder, fabricator and automotive wiring guru... And an all-around nice guy! He is a true champion for Fiero owners everywhere.
Any way... here is the sequence of events.. Looks bad... but not at all.. just really dirty! I was amazed how much dirt and junk was behind the wheels in the rear...
Up she goes.... Onto jack stands for strut removal etc....
My son removing the inner wheel well shields...
OK... getting the last stuff disconnected...
Cruise, throttle cable, tranny cables and a bunch of other stuff disconnected..
Nary a spot of rust on the frame or in the trunk... that is always a relief!
Sliding the dolly under... and last minute checks to make sure everything is loose..
Dolly has the engine on it... The cradle bolts cam out like a dream... Having a "no rust" car really helped here...
Almost there... Couple more cranks on the engine hoist handle...
Sliding the dolly out with only an inch or so to spare...
And she is out! Next step... get the engine of the tranny/cradle as the guy who bought her is coming to get her...
So, the next week holds a lot of progress... The cradle and suspension stuff back from the powder coater. Got the poly kit and bearings from The Fiero Store here and ready to go.. Joe has a lot of stuff he plans to do to the engine compartment and firewall... Should have some nice update pics next Saturday.
Till next weekend, Jeff
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[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-05-2012).]
Anyone in the Eastern WA/N Idaho area want a good tranny and good cradle let Joe know... Also a nearly brand new alternator..(about 1000 miles on it) He may have those up for sale! Engine is gone..... Also a pair of crack free exh manifolds.... PM Fieroking.....
Jeff
[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-26-2010).]
Another week of progress... Engine and rear suspension back from the powder coater! Wow did it turn out nice...
No engine swap thread can get by without one of these... the "engine bay money shot"
So, last week, old engine and cradle out... this week, Engine on the cradle, mounted, and test fit...Also cleaned up the battery area as it actually did have nastiness underneath.. In fact one hole burned/rusted clear through. It was shame to see as otherwise not a rusty spot on the car anywhere to speak of.. Coil over top mounts set up etc.... He made a lot of progress this week.. Here is a pic of the engine mounted on the newly powder coated cradle! Woo Hoo
So... after everything was ready to go Joe did a test fit...... Here are a few shots... (actually a little out of sequence... for editorial purposes)
Went right in...
Driver side view
Passenger side view
Joe mocked up the locations for the coolant overflow, the aircleaner will remain in the stock location... the intake hose is just a mockup... he mapped out Where the ECM and TCM will go... and a lot of other things.. In fact, today Joe got a good idea where everything will go as far as the lines for AC, powersteering, coolant hoses etc.....
So once that was done, we slid it back out... easier said than done as the engine is wider front to back and it is a tight fit between the roller dolly we have it on and the legs of the engine lift.. It was kinda like a "heavy weight engine wrestling cage match smackdown." We won but it was not going to come out as easily as it went in. So, now the hard part begins... Here is Joe contemplating the vast array of wires and plugs that come out of the factory hareness using a factory LS4 wiring diagram.
Next week.... well, we have stuff on the way for the alternator mount from WCF and need to relocate the coolant filler pipe from the factory location to the rear. Also power steering stuff may be here soon ... but that will come later in the build...
Love it when a plan starts to come together!! Jeff (signing out from "Fieroking's" garage...)
[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-05-2012).]
Its kind of funny, up until about 3 years ago we had very few engine swaps at the show, this year I'm expecting 5+.
Great tip Joe!!
We will need to gather all the Inland Northwest Fieros, and take a cruise through some mountain roads. That would be an almost news worthy sight here in the Spokane/CDA region. 
