quote Originally posted by Dogcreek: "Dainty little princesses" LOL Good one Aaron! You always crack me up!! Jeff

I second that.

quote Originally posted by Fieroking: The reason for using relay's is, the relay can carry a heavier Amp Load. The switches in the GXP column provide a path to ground for the relays coil, The contacts in the relay carry the load this way I don't burn out the GXP column switches that are dainty little princesses. I don't know the amp loads but as an example the fuse for the turn signal/ backup lights is 20 amps. Most automotive relays can carry 15 amps with no problem. The main relays in the power circuit Aux and Run are rated at 30 amps.

I know what relays are for. I was just hoping there was a little more clarity on whether or not they were actually needed in this specific application, but it seems there isn't. I wasn't planning on adding any additional relays here, as you did, so I'm curious as to what the real numbers would say about it. But if there's no real information on whether or not they're necessary, that's fine. I'm not trying to argue or anything, just wondering how much information there is on it.

For what it's worth, the Haynes manual for my S-10 (99), suggests in the wiring diagrams in the back, that there aren't any additional relays in the circuit, beyond the normal headlamp relays. But it and the GXP have DRL also, so perhaps the normal circuit is just sufficiently different in that area? The S-10 diagram suggests there are probably 10 amps normally going through the turn signal switch (with a 15 amp fuse); and probably 15 going through the headlight switch itself, with a 20 amp fuse.

AND... the beautiful thing is that Joe has all of the electrical junk clicking along! It all works!! WOO HOO!!!

Jeff

Got the car back on it's wheels and decided to test the starter before my friend Brian came over with his HP Tuner software and DAM if it didn't start. She ran for 3 seconds and shut down. When Brian got here we were unable to get HP Tuners to talk to the car. Checked all the wiring it all checked out. So Brian called a friend who is a GM Tech. He seems to think that without the High Speed Bus connected to the Data Link Port that we would not be able to talk to the ECM. So a little more wiring tomorrow and I try again.

But the car Starts.

Joe Sokol (Jeff's builder)

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85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC OBD II
88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby)

quote Originally posted by Fieroking: Look at the Fiero wiring diagrams (NOT Haynes) and you will see how complex that switch is.

Oh, god... I am fully aware of the validity of that statement! I am wiring up a Fiero race car, and it's column switches were shot. I decided to "just throw them onto a switch panel." That project took the better part of two nights of mapping, and splicing, and another night of tracing the last few issues. Ick... they could have done better in wiring it up I think.

I'll be seeing you all at NWFF again this year. Looking forward to it!

Awesome guys, now hurry up and get yer car out of Joe's garage, I need him to build me an exhaust here pretty quick.

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Currently in the middle of my 88 + 3800NA swap

quote Originally posted by Fieroking: The reason for the seven relays used to replace the Turn signal/Hazard switch is there are 7 inputs/outputs and 8 contacts in the Fiero column for the Turn/Hazard Switch and the GXP column provides 4 outputs. Look at the Fiero wiring diagrams (NOT Haynes) and you will see how complex that switch is.

I've already ceded that I'll probably end up rewiring the whole car anyway. If I have to start off in that direction, with the wiring for the lights/signals/wipers, I don't have any real qualms with it, aside from having to not drive my car while it's being done, since it's definitely not a 30 minute job. I was just hoping I could make an appropriate harness plug/adapter to just plug it into the existing wiring, for the time being, until I got around to needing to do more complex wiring work (like when I get ready to drop in the LS4).

Soon Aaron Soon!! And I will be there for moral support as always!! We are getting sooo close... wait for it...wait for it.... LOL

Jeff

quote Originally posted by Dogcreek: WOOO HOO!!!! We made it to the construction zone!!!!! Thanks Cliff! Jeff

Yay! I asked for it to be moved over, along with a few others.

and to you too Dobey!!! She is running now without the VATS killing it... Joe will pipe in for the other LS4 builders i am sure on how he solved the "datalink blues" with HP Tuners...

Can't wait till tomorrow!!

Jeff

quote Originally posted by Dogcreek: Can't wait till tomorrow!! Jeff

I seriously second that.

The big day has happened I started Jeff's car today and drove it to the end of the block and back. I posted a vid at YouTube look at "LS4 First Start". I need to do more work with HP Tuners. But she is Running

Joe Sokol (Jeff's Builder)

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85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC OBD II
88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby)

Oh. I also just remembered to ask something else about the column swap. Did you have to do anything special with the u-joint end of the column to mate it to the Fiero steering? I know Rick had to do change some pieces around to get the Malibu column mounted in his car.

Holy Smokes!!! Listen to her here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9ay6j1C7u4

quote Originally posted by Dogcreek: Holy Smokes!!! Listen to her here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9ay6j1C7u4

Yeah! She sounds mean, doesn't she?

OMFG! The video just barely shows how cool the push button starter that you installed really is Joe. Can't wait to see her this afternoon.

Hi Dobey,

Yes he did have to mix'n'match the universals at the end of the shaft but with minor other mods it drops in nicely. Joe can share what all he had to do... He is busy thinking through an issue we ran into today... We can't seem to get coolant flowing towrs the front... Funny thing is the system has been "mega" burped but the tubes are not getting warm from the front of the engine forward...

Joe is all over it... My simplistic brain says stuck thermostat but with the odd water pump and in/out tube config...well.... heck who knows? I know Joe is at the garage figuring this out as we speak... He has unreal patience... Me? I am like the "dianty little Princess" switches... LOL.... I am all nervous and stuff... He has incredible patience!

Have some neat pics... get them up tomorrow.... Mr. Kania, I have said it before I will say it again... You ROCK! Thanks for the parts run today!!

Later all.... Jeff "

Dobey

To use the GXP steering column you do have to have both intermediate shafts then take both apart and use the end that fits the GXP column mated to the Fiero intermediate, just like Rick did with his Monte Carlo dash install. The GXP steering column has a totally different end. However the universal joints are the same size.

Joe Sokol (Jeff's Builder)

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85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC OBD II
88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby)

quote Originally posted by Dogcreek: He is busy thinking through an issue we ran into today... We can't seem to get coolant flowing towrs the front... Funny thing is the system has been "mega" burped but the tubes are not getting warm from the front of the engine forward... Joe is all over it... My simplistic brain says stuck thermostat but with the odd water pump and in/out tube config...well.... heck who knows? I know Joe is at the garage figuring this out as we speak...

In Darth's LS4 thread, he had mis-identified the water pump inlet/outlet and later fixed it... might be a good place to start.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: In Darth's LS4 thread, he had mis-identified the water pump inlet/outlet and later fixed it... might be a good place to start.

I was just about to suggest the same thing.

I stopped by yesterday and heard Jeff start it up. The posted audio doesn't do it justice. You need to be there. What a sweet sounding exhaust!

quote Originally posted by dratts: I stopped by yesterday and heard Jeff start it up. The posted audio doesn't do it justice. You need to be there. What a sweet sounding exhaust!

I can't wait to get mine running too, but it's going to be a long and tedious process.

I wonder what it will sound like with a full exhaust system, rather than just dumping through a couple cats out the back. I want it to be somewhat of a sleeper, and sound roughly similar to a stock GT at idle. But she'll sound totally different at about 4K RPM.

Heh heh... well I will tell you.... to me, I have never heard one sweeter and she is very convincing at 3500 where the ECM limits the rpm when in park! My car won't be a sleeper entirely as I won't be advertising the LS4, with the exception of the low growl and two OEM GXP emblems carefully placed on the car... I loved the sound of Rick's and I think we got there!!! Wooo Hooo! Joe made a lot of progress today... Justin brought over the steering wheel center and from what I here... IT ROCKS... Pics soon...

Aaron, Had a great time today! You are on your way bro.... I expect to hear her running by Wednesday....

Oh and Aaron.... I think my central nervous system is acting up..... it started shorting out on the way home... you OK Bro? You were much closer to the spray than I was...
zorch~zorch..... (a bad day with the semi-aggresive wasps) zorch!!! whoa... left side not working now.... and I have a craving for honey... zorch....

LOL, Jeff

Hehe. Well, you do have pretty much the exact same exhaust as Rick's. And I can tell from his videos that it is LOUD.

I have been thinking about putting the GXP emblems on mine as well, when it comes to that point. Not sure if I will or not. I'm also thinking of possibly using the GP style fender vents on my car, but not sure how they will look. Everyone and their mother has the T/A vents, so I was thinking of doing something a little different.

Thanks for your help yesterday Jeff, and I'm beginning to see in honeycomb, is that bad?

Congrats on the first run and the move to the construction zone, Jeff & Joe, hopefully I'll be ready to run soon too..

Joe, I know you've probably though of this, but you want the return pulling from the bottom of the rad, right? So that you're not pulling bubbles into the pump.. Any chance you missed some air and it's cavitating the pump?

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Currently in the middle of my 88 + 3800NA swap

BTW, Joe, did you get my PM about the gauge pod housing?

Um, yeah. You really need to be next to this thing when she is fired up! Woo wee! I could just press that starter button over, and over again.

You are one lucky guy there Jeff. You deserve it, but you are one lucky guy there Jeff.

quote Originally posted by dobey: Hehe. Well, you do have pretty much the exact same exhaust as Rick's. And I can tell from his videos that it is LOUD.

Well, It is louder than the stock Fiero. But I would take the capitals out of the text, just to be more accurate Honestly it is not that loud, I have heard 3800SCs louder than this with mufflers on them. I have been thinking of some new video just to shows the sound under different conditions. for example, At a cruse of 60mph and the windows down, I can hardly tell the engine is running.
The camera I used isn't that good and for some reason the exhaust is very pronounced/exaggerated.

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Well, It is louder than the stock Fiero. But I would take the capitals out of the text, just to be more accurate Honestly it is not that loud, I have heard 3800SCs louder than this with mufflers on them. I have been thinking of some new video just to shows the sound under different conditions. for example, At a cruse of 60mph and the windows down, I can hardly tell the engine is running. The camera I used isn't that good and for some reason the exhaust is very pronounced/exaggerated.

Hehe. Well in your video, and in the one Joe posted of Jeff's car, the exhaust sounds pretty loud. I don't know if 60mph with windows down is a good example though. I can barely hear the stock radio in my car at that speed with the windows down. Hearing the engine at idle, 2500, and 3500 rpm, in the car, standing next to the taillights, and from 10-15 feet away, would be a better video I think.

It won't change the plans for the exhaust on mine, but it would be good to hear it.

quote Originally posted by dobey: Hehe. Well in your video, and in the one Joe posted of Jeff's car, the exhaust sounds pretty loud. I don't know if 60mph with windows down is a good example though. I can barely hear the stock radio in my car at that speed with the windows down. Hearing the engine at idle, 2500, and 3500 rpm, in the car, standing next to the taillights, and from 10-15 feet away, would be a better video I think. It won't change the plans for the exhaust on mine, but it would be good to hear it.

True, but some type of background noise as a reference would put it in "context" like another car running? Or a radio playing? If the sound of the background noise gets drowned out, then you can capitalize "loud"

Nice advice on the burping Rick.

Now, about the exaust being LOUD... I would say it is loud, but with an extremely mellow overtone to it. In Joe's garage, while running, we are definately able to carry a conversation. It does not have that raspy drone to it at all. Just a sweet up and down motion of the additional two plugs, that only a V8 can create.

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: True, but some type of background noise as a reference would put it in "context" like another car running? Or a radio playing? If the sound of the background noise gets drowned out, then you can capitalize "loud"

Perhaps? Maybe you could do it in a parking lot near a main road, where there's fairly busy traffic, but not jammed or such. Probably a better reference than either the windows being down at speed, or radio playing at idle.

quote Originally posted by dobey: Maybe. But http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ltEClPCEos and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9ay6j1C7u4 sound completely different than blkcofy's car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ECAI-Vr5LE

I have a feeling that is do to the fact that it is Dogcreek's car, and not blkcofy's.

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: I have a feeling that is do to the fact that it is Dogcreek's car, and not blkcofy's.

Well, blkcofy's car has a muffler now. Jeff and Rick's cars don't.

And you can tell there is a difference. blkcofy said the no-muffler cats only exhaust was too loud, so he had the muffler put in. But my point is that his car is obviously quieter in the videos. I'm just wondering how loud your cars really are.

quote Originally posted by dobey: Well, blkcofy's car has a muffler now. Jeff and Rick's cars don't. And you can tell there is a difference. blkcofy said the no-muffler cats only exhaust was too loud, so he had the muffler put in. But my point is that his car is obviously quieter in the videos. I'm just wondering how loud your cars really are.

Why don't you stop wondering, build yours, and find out?

quote Originally posted by aaronkoch: Why don't you stop wondering, build yours, and find out?

If I had all the necessary parts, and money, etc... to have it done already, I would have it done already.

But I don't, so it's going to take time.