Fiero nuts....

Another LS4 build has begun... This is a LS4 with tranny and all electronics from a 2007 GP GXP with 25k acquired from Eric at Morad Motors... It is going into my 1986GT seen here...



I am working with Joe (FieroKing) on this.... He is doing the swap and I am helping... or staying out of the way... whatever he wants... LOL




It is going onto an 88 cradle...... Not planning on using DoD or the BCM.... pretty much a straight swap with A/C, no power steering and with much of the "stuff" turned off... ie, tranny protect, wheel sensors, etc.....

Also doing a shock/strut upgrade and a brake upgrade... We are hoping to do a push button tranny and steering wheel mounted paddles...

So here we go... I have held off on sharing the start as it has been a long time coming... But it is time... The "check wallet" light is glowing brightly...

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-04-2012).]

I hope this is a good DIY thread with a lot of pictures.

I'll race ya, wait, no I won't..

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Currently in the middle of my 88 + 3800NA swap

Gonna do my best on that.... this is a bit of a milestone for me as I have planned to do a V8 swap since I had my first ride in a Fiero many years ago.... I have watched so many successful awesome builds here that I have been a bit obsessive (what Fiero guy isn't) and finally have a car and the means and an expert to help me do it right... Plus a very supportive club that loves to get involved with other members cars (Inland Northwest Fiero's)

So... here we go...... It will be an "E" ticket ride for sure!! Hey Aaron!! Lets get cracking on these cars... Let me know if when you want to get cracking again on yours!! What goes around comes around!!
Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-07-2012).]

Dunno what you're talking about, I got my custom flywheel, clutch and transmission mounted up yesterday, and the engine mounts on the cradle..

As I suspected... You are a machine when it comes to this kind of stuff... I am heading to Joe's on Saturday... Want to go? Like to see your progress too... It has been too long since we took out the torches and hammer and starting fixin' stuff LOL

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-01-2010).]

April fool right?

Just kiddin'

Do you have the tap shift tranny?

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Go INW!

You guys are just trying to increase the competion in the Super Mod class at the NW Fiero Fest aren't you

4.5 months and counting!

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http://www.raceme.cc/helmet/

Hi Rick... yes it came with the tap shift stuff.... Say did you make your own engine mounts?

Jeff

quote Originally posted by Dogcreek: Hi Rick... yes it came with the tap shift stuff.... Say did you make your own engine mounts? Jeff

I got my mounts from West Coast Fiero and modified them. I cant seem to just leave anything alone I used the WCF brackets on the engine and tranny and made my own brackets on the cradle. For what I use the car for, I would not use the polly again. I would make my own custom mounts with the factory fluid filled LS4 mounts. For me, the polly is just way to stiff and transmits to much vibration and noise into the car. But others might not think it is that bad. One cool thing about the WCF mounts is that they had a reverse mount alt option to put the alternator in the stock battery location. Also they have a really cool coolant fill neck that bolts to the side of the head.


I have the tap shift tranny controle modual, tap shift controles on the steering wheel and wire diagrams for it but I dont have the tranny;( Some day maybe I will convert it to tap shift.

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Hi Rick, good info... thank you... Got some pics of what Joe has made and they look great.. I will post them in a bit...

Well, we looked at some things and it looks like if I want to use the cruise I have to get the BCM... Right? Plus I think I need to get a factory GXP wheel and shifter if I want to keep all of that stock.. Anyone have a stock GP-GXP wheel and shift linkage setup...? The tranny is all setup for it and when I bought it I thought it have everything it would need... but no... not a major thing... just need to find the parts

Anyway more later... including todays pics..

Jeff

The BCM will need a lot of "other things". It is a complex electrical system.

I did get the shifter for my LS4 swap, but it is not the tap shift type. That did not matter anyway because the shifter is a HUGE plastic monstrosity that has an ice cube's chance in hell of fitting in the Fiero in a "conventional" configuration. I took the lock out switch off the shifter and modified it to work on the modified Fiero shifter. BTW there is also an electronic lockout in the GXP steering column that works with the shifter lock out. The shifter wont shift and you cant pull the key out if the system fails or blows a fuse.
The Tap Shift shifter is different but still WAY to large to install in the Fiero. But you may still use parts off of it?

BTW I may have the only automatic "short shifter" in a Fiero? I think I cut my shifter down by 3".

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Thank s Rick, well... lots to think about around the cruise control and shift setup....

Anyway here are the pics from this weekends progress...

Test fitting and measurements for the mounts



Another view...



Out with the old and in with new...one of the mounts Joe is fabricating...



Here is one little tight spot that will require a small notch.. Engine
is sitting low in this pic but it is pretty tight right here...



And of course a pic of Joe's 4.9 - Nice ride here!!




Now we are making headway!!!

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-04-2012).]

If I could make a sugestion, I would say try to move the engine a little further to the driver side. Cut out small indentations in the cradle for the tranny. That way you wont have to cut into the Fiero frame rail on the passenger side.

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Rickady,

The only reason he needs to notch it is for the oil filter, the engine/tranny sits dead center in the cradle with maybe 1/2" wiggle room all around. Where did you think it was hitting?

Joe and I read your build thread, and were scratching our heads trying to figure out why you had problems making it fit.. Maybe the tap shift tranny is a slightly different shape or something? It's close, but other than putting about a third of a steel pipe in the cradle for clearance on the oil filter it looks like it will fit without issue. How low is yours? I know Jeff's oil pan is about 1/4" above the imaginary plane across the bottom of the '88 cradle..

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Currently in the middle of my 88 + 3800NA swap

It all depends on where the alternator goes. If you mount it above the axle (like Rickady88GT, blkcofy & fieroaddiction), the belt drive goes much further to the rear where the passenger frame rail angles in and it will not fit without a slight cut to the passenger frame rail. Notching the driver side of the cradle to shift the engine over could make the needed clearance to avoid the frame notch on the passenger side.

WCF flips the alternator and runs it cantilevered over the old battery location and probably does not need any notching for alternator clearance.

The LS4 waterpump is a space hog on the front side of the engine and makes it challanging to fit both the AC and Alternator up front and down low.

quote Originally posted by Dogcreek: Fiero nuts.... Another LS4 build has begun... This is a LS4 with tranny and all electronics from a 2007 GP GXP with 25k acquired from Eric at Morad Motors... It is going into my 1986GT seen here...

I love the look of this two-tone paint scheme. It really fits the car nicely.

\/\/

Is the internal fan in the alternator "directional"...might be worth considering.

When you mount the alternator facing the other direction, it will spin the other direction as well.

[This message has been edited by KurtAKX (edited 04-06-2010).]

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: Is the internal fan in the alternator "directional"...might be worth considering. When you mount the alternator facing the other direction, it will spin the other direction as well.

Wouldn't the diodes automatically compensate for that?

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: Is the internal fan in the alternator "directional"...might be worth considering. When you mount the alternator facing the other direction, it will spin the other direction as well.

It has been done many, many times with the Vette superchargers so I am sure a workable solution exists.

Hi guys, thanks for all the feedback... This is really good input...

Infinitewill, thank you for the comments on the paint scheme... right now it is about a "9 footer" job as I haven't cut and buffed it yet... I had a real run-in with Maaco over it as I paid for the "super supreme grand poobah ambassador "happy ending" godlike paint job" and got the $700 version... after three trips back and 4 weeks in their shop they got the coverage right but I am not done with it by a long shot.... Needs to be cut and buffed and waxed out... I will do that after we finish the swap.... (note to self.... do swap first... then paint job...duhhhh) At least it is high quality paint and it has a lot of coats on it... They were also good to me when I went back and said... uhh, excuse me... but this won't do... So far I have fixed all of the remaining atrocities myself.... But, I like the scheme ~ as odd as it may be ~ the scheme came to me when I owned my 84 or 86 back in the eighties.... can't remember which but the thought stuck with me... Or maybe I was flashing back to Woodstock... none the less.... I like it...

Rick, thanks for the comments.... I am sold on the external alternator mount and it eliminates the frame cutting... Joe is a great fabricator and from what I saw on Sunday he has it dialed in... I really appreciate your input though as you have been down this road and have an awesome car!

FieroGuru, KurtAKX and Isolde... Thanks for discussing the Alternator ideas.... I hate to admit but at 4:14 am yesterday on the way to the the "salt mine" I was actually thinking about the mechanical and electrical scenario on alternator mounting.... Please keep sharing as the forums input is appreciated..

OK... well now, I am off to try to figure out how to paint the engine cover to match the powder coating and engine compartment scheme of Black and Silver and red.... Maybe I should post a pic of the cover and have some guys photoshop their ideas!!

Aaron.... sorry I missed you on Saturday!!! I was holding a "recording studio" yard sale to help put out the "check wallet light"

Till later.... Jeff

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[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-07-2012).]

Thanks for noticing and commenting on each person's efforts to be helpful. It makes people feel good to be appreciated. That it's obviously your character to do so, I automatically like you, LSx aside, though the LSx is the reason I clicked on your thread in the first place. I'm doing it too.

Just caught this. My computer decided to take a dump last week. Anyway, what a car! This is one great 86, and Jeff is really a great guy. ( I don't know how your Wife lives with you though? ) FieroKing really has his shat together when it comes to swaps. You are in good hands Dogcreek.

Post up some more pics. The paint scheme is really cool. The view of Dogcreek's Fiero is awesome from my rearview mirror. But after the swap, I am afraid that his rearview mirror will be filled with the smile of a guy in his 87 GT.

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Yeah Tony... I can't figure the wife deal out either!! LOL Anyway.. hoping for the weekend!!! Get doing something again. Guys thanks again for all the advice... I think Joe has got the alternator plan all dialed in... Welds were on the agenda this week... Next... Spindles and and axle alignment... Then powder coaters... Then.........

Isolde, you doing this swap too? That is cool... Do you have a build thread going? If not, how it is going overall.. get started yet?

We're havin'' fun now!!

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-18-2012).]

My progress is slower than frozen molasses, my build is now in several threads, all of which are on the other forum. I started with an LM7 truck 5.3, then I got an LS4, then MAST Motorsports announced their new heads, so I sold the LS4. Now I'm proceeding with the LM7, because the LM7 block is more like the LS3 block, externally. And I'll need the big bore LS3 block to use the MAST heads. I decided I'd rather give up the midrange torque of a twin turbo LS4, to save weight and improve predictability. I don't want the turbos to spool up just as I'm coming out of a bumpy corner, you know? That could spin me off into the trees.
So yes, I'm currently doing a 5.3L Fiero.I'm using the F40 but not using anything from Archie on this one. I found the '00 Z28 exhaust manifolds are an excellent fit, I have pics if you're interested.

Looking forward to seeing this one finished.

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Isolde,

Excellent... I am interested in pics for sure!! Love to see what you are doing... I have the benefit of Joe, (Fieroking) my club member friends, the excellent builds I have seen here (Like Ricks) and one more source of knowledge would really help!! If you could post them or PM them I would be grateful...

Michael, hope all is well.... I got your PM and man I got chills reading it... I will answer tonight or tomorrow but either way it is a deal!!

Looking forward to this wekend... Been a 65 hour week at the grind and I am ready to do some car stuff!!

Best to all, Jeff

Okay, here are the pics. 7 of them. These exhaust manifolds are from an '00 Z28, I used the Z28 driver side on the Fiero front side, and the Z28 passenger side on the Fiero rear side. Idk if it'll clear so well if you use an automatic, but these pics should show the excellent fit with the F40. Here goes:

Wow... That is a nice and clean block!... Do you have a shot of the exhaust route or drawing you plan on using? We are planning to try to do the muffler collection at the rear without doing too much trunk cutting !! LOL

I should have some more pics tomorrow... Also, I am looking for a good sounding exhaust... minus cat of course as the old girl drops off smog tests this year,, Flowmaster is out.. bad experience and fellow Fiero guys experience as well... Looking for a warm, vette like sound... smooth but aggressive... Ideas anyone....? A real full note but not raspy sound on any end..

I know... I ask a lot of questions.... PS... I really like Ricks video...and a sound something like his maybe a note lower?

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-09-2010).]

I'm going to go with custom headers, these manifolds are only good to 400 rwhp, and I want more. I was reading on www.ls1tech.com, someone had an LS1, with LS6 heads and intake manifold, and these exhaust manifolds, in a '32 Ford. With a manual trans. They ordered a custom 218/230 cam, and made 400 rwhp. You'd have less with an automatic, but your Ls4 block already has the correct heads to do that, and it can be bored to 5.7L safely.
If I was keeping these manifolds, I'd put a bend on the front side, to put a cat in front of the cradle's cross-beam, then the exhaust could pass under that hump in the cradle, and under the "front" of the oil pan. Speaking of which, I'm going with an '05 Corvette oil pan. If you plan on road racing or autocrossing, it's better at controlling oil in all 4 directions than the LS4 pan. I can get you the GM part number if you want to buy a new one.
Anyway, if there's anything else I can help you with, just name it.

Oh yes... and by the Paul... you bring your car again to NW Fierofest and the competition will be awful stiff... yours is one the nicest cars I have ever seen... and... I don't want to park next to you this year!! LOL... Just kidding of course... Hope to see you there... we had a ball last year!

Jeff