Well for those who were interested in a kit for this conversion I have some bad news to tell. I do not think that I will be doing a kit so that anyone may install a Firebird dash into thier Fiero. After many months of research and work, and development I have decided against it for cost reasons. What I have come up with is this, the kit to allow you to install a Firebird dash would cost between $750.00 - $900.00, and that would not include the cost of the dash that YOU would have to go find yourself. Most of the cost is from first production run materials and creating quality molds to produce the parts needed. When I looked at the over all price for what you got, and what you recieved I then asked myself would I buy such a kit? I came up with a quick answer of no I would not. With jscott and mrfixit threads and write ups, a few fabricating skills (nothing fancy) the project could be completed, dash included, for a fration of the price that I could offer for a kit that did not include the dash itself.
Well... to be honest... that's WHY I build my Firebird dash in the first place... the cost of aftermarket kits.
Lots of free labor... little dollars for parts.
Roy
[This message has been edited by mrfixit58 (edited 11-19-2003).]
Jon or Roy... Do either of you have a clear pic of what you cut out of the internal frame to raise the column? I'm pretty familiar with what the frame looks like now that I'm doing my Grand Am dash swap, so I was wondering how you cut out that channel to raise the column, then tied it all together.
Did you raise this point?
[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 11-19-2003).]
The part that you are pointing to is what I refer to as the snout. And, yes, I cut that piece off. I also bent the pinch-weld out of the way because I needed more space for the instrument cluster. In otder to gain even more height, I slit the tunnel above the column (under and behind the snout) and bent it up. This was done to make room for the ignition switch that's mounted on top of the column.
If you look at Jonathan's (jscott1) web site, I think he shows a picture.
Actually I don't have a picture of that cut on my webpage, so I'll post it here. It's kind of hard to see within the confines of PIP but you can see my airbox, (which is white) and the cut of the "snout" My cut was only about 2 inches total.
Using Roy's method more has to be cut away to get the dash further back. It would look more like this practice cut I made on my parts car:
I hope this helps. I am still trying to get my interior cosmetically the way I want it. I have a list of about 50 things I want to do.
This is how it looked at the Red River Ruckus Redux:
Immediately following that event, I removed a bunch of stuff for rework so I don't have a good pic to show how it looks now.
------------------ If you find my advice useful, then please give me a positive rating, thanks... 1988 GT (Firebird Interior) 1988 Coupe (Daily Driver), 1985 SE (Project Car) Recent Addition 1985 Coupe (parts car) Firebird Interior Installation Website
Well... to be honest... that's WHY I build my Firebird dash in the first place... the cost of aftermarket kits.
Lots of free labor... little dollars for parts.
Roy
[This message has been edited by mrfixit58 (edited 11-19-2003).]
I know, but the whole idea was to give everyone another option at an updated dash for thier car, I was hopeing that with available parts from a junkyard that this would be a reasonably priced option I could offer the Fiero community. But such are things not meant to be I guess. Oh well, at least you and jscott have given everyone a lot of insite on how to do this, I commend both of you for it and all the hard work you two put into it. Hopeing I get to mine this summer, but school will tell me if I can, or can not have that time to devote to the project.
Originally posted by OH10fiero: ...What I have come up with is this, the kit to allow you to install a Firebird dash would cost between $750.00 - $900.00, and that would not include the cost of the dash that YOU would have to go find yourself. ...
I have given this a lot of thought and there still seems to be quite a bit of interest in the Firebird Dash kit. I know that a turn key kit would cost more than what the typical Fiero owner would be willing to pay, but there might be a middle ground. Some have expressed interest in just the dash harness or the environmental controls. They could then do the fiberglass and the brackets themselves.
I have been asked a few times to build the harness, If I can squeeze in the time between my other projects I will look into the feasibility of building the harness. I would like to help the firebird dash be as common an upgrade as the grand am brakes or Pontiac CD player.
I am just about done with the dash installation...I think I have all the wiring figured out, but does anyone know a good source for the Firebird guage cluster connecter...it would be easiest to splice this into the Fiero harness. A connector came with a harness attached to the dash, but it was from an 01 Firebird, and the wires were in all the wrong places (missing where the need to be on the earlier harness)...and in trying to move the connectors from the harness, I damaged some of the connectors, so it would be best to find one out of an earlier (96-ish) Firebird. Thanks.
Ron, I usually get everything I need off eBay. Not the cheapest place but convenient. If you see someone posting a bunch of firebird parts chances are that they are parting out the entire car; a quick email and you tell them you need the connector and they will sell it to you. That's how I got mine. Otherwise you can just solder direclty onto the terminals. I don't recommend it, but it can be done.
I think we are due for an update. I'd like to see some pics
Have you tired the junk yards, yet? If you tell them what you're trying to do, I find that they'll usually let you have one cheap. Ask them for one at least 6" long so you'll have room to splice the Fiero wiring and be sure that the harness is the same year as the cluster. I know that 93-95 are the same. If you call your local GM parts supplier and ask him, he should be able to tell you what year clusters are the same.
Alright... one year later... after originally seeing this thread i decided to do the swap. First... I got the door panels. The drivers is cut and ready for install. The pass side is still leaning against the closet. It is raining so i cant get the drivers installed. My question is this. The dash i would get is as follows... It has blown the airbags. But the dash is not broken. Comes with everything... steering collumn, gauge cluster, hvac controls, and wiring. The only problem is, this is the only one in the nearby junkyards and they are all auto. I need a manual shifter console. So if someone has one LMK. He wants 250 for it... but i think i am gonna talk him down. (he said he did a ferrari kit on a fiero once... heh....) I pick the dash up on monday if I get it... but i am not sure if it is worth it... steering wheel is also blown.
:raises glass: heres to a new interior
------------------ Avid Fiero Enthusiast Daniel Caddell
I paid a lot more than $250 for what you describe so that's a good deal. The auto and manual consoles are the same except for the insert around the shifter. You can buy that separately on Ebay, or even brand new from the dealer if you are so inclined, (i've done both).
The airbag on the steering wheel can be replaced with two captive fasteners in about 30 seconds. I have a "live" aribag on my steering wheel although I don't think there is any danger as it is not hooked up to anything.
As I told you before capping the door panels is the hardest part. Roy build custom panels to avoid the problem, Wholf had his done professionally. I have just about finished mine, but I'm not quite ready to reveal what they look like. I have a bit more to do on my interior before I delcare it complete, after about 18 months. I'm sure it can be done quicker but I have to squeeze in garage time whenever I can. Good luck.
- Jonathan
EDIT - to help you with the door panel, here are the measurements I took on the drivers side. I then used those for the passenger side and it worked perfectly. The two holes are the holes left over after you remove the armrest support for the stock panels.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 04-03-2004).]
Thanks for the pictures Jontathan. I am having a time cutting my pannels. I ran out of dremel wheels so i have to wait to get some. Question for you: You guys were talking about a fuel gauge? what year works? I am pulling off a 94 firebird. Also do i need the hvac controls and the steering collum?
To cut my panels I used a reciprocating saw. Cuts through like butter. The dremel is a great tool, (I have two of them) but you will go through a bag of those disc on a cut that large.
The 94 fuel gauge should be fine...it was the ones in 97 and later that don't seem to work with the Fiero sender.
You don't have to have the hvac controls, you can fit the fiero controls into the opening...but the conversion is more convincing if you use the firebird. It's a pain because you have to replace that vacuum switch with a rotary switch.
And the steering column you don't need unless you plan to implement the steering wheel controls. Having said that I do have a column and plan to implement the steering wheel controls, but that's still on my list of things to do.
Let me know what else you need to know, and post pics as soon as you can.
Ok thanx for everything Jonathan. I will go get another card for my camera tonight so i can take pics again. Does the firebird steering wheel fit on the stock steering collum? I will post pics after work. Later guys
------------------ Avid Fiero Enthusiast Daniel Caddell
I had to file down a keyway to get the firebird steering wheel to fit on the Fiero column but that only took about 5 minutes at the most. You shouldn't have too much difficulty getting it on.
Thanks again Jon. I have finished mounting/cutting the drivers side pannel. I need to cut and mount the handle then i am pretty much finished until i rip apart the dash for wiring. Card for my camera will be here tonight. I will take pics and then post them so you can see my progress. BTW how many of these are installed on fieros? is this number 4 or 5? See you guys tonight.
Daniel
PS jon could you post me a list of things to get for the dash while i am at the yard tomorrow. just so that i dont forget anything.
PICS!!! finally got pics... had to network two computers together to do it. But here are the pics of the door pannels. I had to re-cover the middle with leather.
There is a sneak peak. i will have the dash install pics tomorrow or the day after.
------------------ Avid Fiero Enthusiast Daniel Caddell
Ok i went and bought the dash today. I did not recieve word back from Jon so i didnt pick up the wiring harness. Here are the pics of it in the car. Read for pickup tomorrow morning.
and here is something entirely too funny... what happened to the rest of the car? Now i know why the airbags went off...
Originally posted by Malakyt: Ok i went and bought the dash today. I did not recieve word back from Jon so i didnt pick up the wiring harness. Here are the pics of it in the car. Read for pickup tomorrow morning.-Daniel
Sorry Daniel, for not getting back to you...I actually spent the day with my son at Astroworld, instead of in front of the computer.
You chose wisely, you don't need the dash harness. I built all my harnesses from scratch including the connectors. I soldered directly onto the terminals and then conformal coated all the pins. Not the easiest thing to do.
Your panels look great. As far as I know only three have done the firebird panels, and then PBJ did the firebird dash and Roy did the firebird dash and custom firebird inspired panels, so that's 5 that I know of. Others said they were working on it, but I have yet to see any other pictures.
Dang, I just picked up my Fiero for a nice DD, and now I'm sticking a new motor in it and thinking of spending my money on it rather than my beastly Suburban!
It ain't good to have two different automotive hobbies going at the same time, not sure I can affor all this, but now I'm gonna go looking for a Firebird interior too.
I had the interior together for the first time since the Red River Ruckus Redux...so as not to start another thread here are some highlights of the NEW for 2004 Interior:
New Mr Mikes, New Carpet, All new trim pieces in white this time, and more steady progress on the door panels and dash filler panel. Not completed as hoped but getting there. With any luck they will be subtantially complete by Wheatstock:
Now all I have to do is get it running right
------------------ If you find my advice useful, then please give me a positive rating, thanks... 1988 GT (Firebird Interior),1988 Coupe (Daily Driver), 1985 SE (Project Car), 1985 Coupe (parts car), Firebird Interior Installation Website
WOW! jscott that looks insane!!! i love the choice of colors and those rims are pimpin it! makes the car look more agressive! i noticed that u made a sub enclosure with the oem middle console, fiero5 did that for jordans car too, and im planning to do that next. what kinda sub did u use? and how easy was it, what steps did u take? thanks bro *one of my top 5 favs
My center console is a cut down version of the stock one. About the best you can do in the stock is an 8" and that's what I have for mine. However, my console is actually mounted about 3 inches higher than stock and it has a custom bottom end to transition into the firebird console. The speaker is not actually installed in this shot but you get an idea what it will look like.
I read this entire thread for the first time today, and all I can say is that I'm in awe. jscott and mrfixit, you have done some excellent, groundbreaking work on your cars. Thank you for pushing the envelope!
------------------ Dowdian Beat up, broken down, bashed in 88 GT that I love dearly.
Please, tell me about your center console sub. Other that a custom plexi speaker mount, what else did you do to it? Did you move the ECM and hollow it out or what?
------------------ Marty, '84 SE, '85 2M4, '86 SE, '87 GT, '88 GT
I just read all of this thread yesterday, the work you guys have done is fantastic. I'm getting a complete interior package today out of a 95 Firebird to put in an 88 GT. I'm getting the door panels, dash, speedo cluster, plus the wiring harness to use the connectors. I'm not able to get the center console right now, but everything else is free as long as I pull it myself, which just proves friends in the right places can be a huge help. Is there anything else in specific I should try and get out of the car? Did anyone ever get a complete build instruction on a web page somewhere? It would be great to have printout I could have handy to reference back to while doing the conversion this fall.
The one thing I found hard to get was the cable that connects the Enviromental controls to the airbox, and all the connectors for the gauges and switches. I had to make all those by hand because I didn't have them.
I have a webpage that hits everthing at a high level, (see sig) but if you have any specific questions feel free to PM me or post here, I'll be glad to help.
And to achawkins, my center console is hollowed out to an extent, but the ECM is still there. Note however that my console is about 3 inches higher than stock and it has a custom bottom on it, so your results might vary for mounting an 8" sub in the stock console.
Thanks, I checked out your website. I got the HVAC controls out of the car, though I'll probably mount the Fiero controls at first. The speedo I got is a V8 car, but I think I can calibrate the tach. Do you have any pictures or drawings of the mounts you used? I've got the car apart right now to put in a tranny. But its a long weekend coming up and the trans shouldn't take me that long. Maybe I'll set the dash in just to see how it looks. hmmmm
I have tons of pictures of my mounts but I wouldn't recommend my mounting system to anyone. I have the model T of firebird dashes. That is, it was the first one to be mounted in a running vehicle, (MrFixit58 had one mounted up in his test mule first) and at the time I didn't know if it would work so I mounted it in such a way that I didn't need to modify the steering column. I have since modified the column, but I didn't change the way the dash was mounted.
Everyone since has mounted the dash with the upper portion flush with the bottom edge of the windshield. With mine there is a 2 to 3 inch gap. I would suggest starting there and then make bracket where they seem to be needed to hold it in there nice and tight.
I dont mean to bring something old back up to the top, but with the hard work and tons of kudas there was to give. I just wanted to ask if there was ever a parts list to make. I was looking at that pir. dash and it looks like it was coppied from the firebirds original dash setup. So instead of spending the thousands of $$$ I have decided to TACKLE this job once I find a Fiero lol.
Have ya'll ever thought about making the E-Brake work with the set up? or was there a problem in that?
But a good parts list of whats needed, basic tools needed, and maybe a How-to write up would be great, Or maybe a good person to let me swap emails back and forth for any questions I may have would work fine too..
Thanks Archer Future Fiero Owner/ Customizer
------------------ ASE Certified Motorcycle Tech. Pro Powder coater Future Fiero Builder!
Thanks for the kind words. There are now several of us who have completed the conversion. If you have questions, feel free to ask. I'm sure one or more of will help.
Thanks for the bump. I consider this thread the official build up thread for my car.
As I have yet to declare my interior officially complete I am more than willing to share what I know about installing these dashes. Keep checking back here for updates on my T-top.
Also I am about to start on my second one on my Chop top
Keep an eye on this thread for updates on that install.
If you have any questions just pm me and I will try to answer them. Good luck.
Here is a parts list that I worked up earlier. In just the two years since I did this the Firebird dashes have become more plentiful in the yards. You can get a complete dash with everything for a lot less than what I paid originally. But here are the parts. You can omit a few things like the radio, A/C controls and steering wheel if you don't want the complete firebird look and feel.
Main part of the dash itself
gauge cluster
Gage and radio Surround
lower panel (the piece below the steering column)
console
door handles
door panels
Window/lock swithes
environmental conrol panel
headlight switch
fiberglass, fiber reinforced Bondo, and plastic Bondo
misc stuff like paint and junk plus wire/solder and stuff
I am not sure if I ever told you both what a GREAT job you both did and pulled it off through email... Thats AMAZING!! I just wanted to give this the old B U M P
