The economics of dash swaps make it difficult to market a drop in kit at a price that most Fiero enthusiasts would pay.
A professional lke Archie or Norm could build such a kit but they would spend hundreds of hours developing it and since time is money to a professional they would have to recoup that money in the cost of the kit.
Norm is making molds of my interior to reduce the weight of the original MDF + fiberglass. Since he is doing that favor for me, he is more than welcome to reproduce them for interested parties. The great part about my dash is that you don't have to worry about speaker location. It's a custom design, so you either love/hate the way it looks. But everyone loves the way it sounds.
I used Dakota Digital gauges, but you can use autometer or the style of your choosing.
I am coming along with my Camaro / Firebird interior. I am putting 98-02 Camaro door panels in, and have wired the window switches into the doors instead of the center console. I have both windows working with my auto up / down box that I bought. Locks were easy.
But I am about to wire the power mirror controls to the switch on the driver door. Both have eight wires, and the four directional wires are the same color, so those are easy. But the other four are different. On the plugs, they are wires as H, G, F, E on both. Do I just match the letters, or is there a different order. I don't want to fry anything since they have constant power to the switch.
But I am about to wire the power mirror controls to the switch on the driver door. Both have eight wires, and the four directional wires are the same color, so those are easy. But the other four are different. On the plugs, they are wires as H, G, F, E on both. Do I just match the letters, or is there a different order. I don't want to fry anything since they have constant power to the switch.
Whatever you do, don't just match colors or letters. Some match, some don't
Here's what I have for mirrors. Firebird on the left - Fiero on the right
FIREBIRD - FIERO
A BLK - B BLK B LTBLU - D- LT BLU C YEL - C-YEL D WHT - F Wht/BLK E LT GRN - E LT GRN F BRN/WHT - G LT GRN/BLK G RED/WHT -H WHT H ORN -A ORN
This was for a 98 Firebird and 88 Fiero Yourr results might vary.
If you are going to do any wiring you need to invest in a Helms. The Haynes is just a subset of the Helms.
Anyway, here are the pinouts for the 88 Fiero mirrors, (your results might vary)...
A- ORG - Fused battery B - BLK - Ground C - YEL - Left and right mirror Up/Down motor D - Lt BLU - Left and right mirror left/right motor E - Lt GRN/BLK -Left Mirror Up/down motor F- WHT/BLK - Left Mirror Left/Right Motor G - LtGRN - Right Mirror Up/Down Motor H - WHT - Right Mirror Left/Right motor
EDIT - What year Camaro mirror switch do you have? I probably can't help you but I have the drawings for the later year Camaros (98+)
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 10-17-2005).]
i have 93 firebird door panels and im loking to put the switches on the door also do the colors match up there at least if not anyone have the right wires combo i have to splice
Holy Crap, I've read this thread before but never noticed theres actually a plug and play setup for it. Now I really wanna do this lol.
Is there any way to get a digital odometer to work? And reset it to show the actual vehicle miles? I'm betting not without the V8 and everything so you gotta use the Bird ECM. hrm
Is there any way to get a digital odometer to work? And reset it to show the actual vehicle miles? I'm betting not without the V8 and everything so you gotta use the Bird ECM. hrm
I have digital odometer and it works just fine. Resetting it to show actual vehicle mileage, well that's not so simple. It has nothing to do with a V8 or the ECM, the information is stored in the cluster. I don't have a clue how to reset it, and for obvious reasons there is no obvious way to do it. I've just gotten used to the fact that my cluster is showing 23,000 miles less than actual.
Yeah a few days ago when I posted that picture of my HUD I called it a Bonneville HUD; which is what kind of car it came out of. It might not have been obvious to the casual reader that it is installed in my Fiero.
As for the Camaro Mirror switch this is what I have for the 98+:
A - ORN - power B - YEL - Left mirror up/down motor C - LT BLU - Left Mirror Right/Left and Up/Down motor common D - WHT - Left Mirror Right/Left Motor E - RED/WHT - Right mirror Right/Left Motor F - GRY - Right mirror Right/Left and Up/Down motor common G - BRN/WHT - Right mirror up/down motor H - BLK - Ground
I re-read this entire topic, and noticed that my dash (camaro) seems to be closer to the windshield than most. Also, mine is not tilted at all, but mounted straight up and down. But all the different ways look good, I just wanted as much room as possible. I cut the back of the dash and the Fiero itself. I also have a Firebird steering column on custom brackets, so the wheel fits in the hole in the dash well. I like my new placement much better.
I have to the door planels, and am trying to figure out how to mount them to the doors. I want to hide all of the screws. Not going to be easy.
Anyway, here are pictures of my 98-02 Camaro interior swap:
and noticed that my dash (camaro) seems to be closer to the windshield than most...
Actually all but mine sit close to the windshield. Mine is the only one that doesn't because I was the first person in this thread to install a firebird dash in an actual car, (Roy's was installing it in his parts car at the time I was installing it in my actual car) Therefore I wasn't prepared to modify the column until I knew it would work. I later did modify the column but left the dash in it's current position.
I am going to do my hvac controls the same way, and I am looking for a replacement electrical switch for the air-position knob. I see that you used a switch, and attached it to the knob (since it was originally vacuum).
Did you find a switch where the switch positions line up with the notches (icons, pictures, whatever)? In other words, does your switch change positions at the stock positions, so that the knob pointer lines up with the icons?
If so, where did you find one? It is (8) notches on 180 degrees span.
Thanks.
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
Here is an update on my progress. Not nearly as visually interesting as Roy's update today, but here is what I have been working on...
Aside from the above mentioned hvac, I am also working on the power mirrors and camaro door panels also. I am rebuilding a pw motor also, any place make brushes for these?
BTW, the camaro switch is different than the firebird, and is a PITA!
Did you find a switch where the switch positions line up with the notches (icons, pictures, whatever)? In other words, does your switch change positions at the stock positions, so that the knob pointer lines up with the icons?
I could not find such a switch. I searched every type of switch catalog I could find and most are either 6 or 12 positions on 270 degrees or something like that. You can get close but no cigar. I rarely move mine off Max AC so I don't worry about it too much.
I've given a little thought to modifying the vacuum switch to be electrical, that way it would line up perfectly. But I have only given minimal thought to that, and haven't come up with anything yet.
I have a new dash coming out, and I'm sure 90% of you will love it as it's gorgeous. It's smooth and rounded. . .but you're just going to have to wait a month for the details
The problem is, most people are not realistic when it comes to budgeting for a dash change. Sure, if you want to put 50-100 hours into it and design your own, you can do it for a few hundred dollars. But if you seriously want to put in a dash that's been designed and won't take this kind of time, expect to honestly spend a minimum of $1000+++. The good ones are in the $3k range right now, finished.
I came across this the other day at work, have not checked them out, but they are suppose to have/make all type of rotary switches. www.ggi-international.com
Tim
[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 11-02-2005).]
I may try and fabricate a switch. I really want the controls to look stock.
This kind of make me chuckle...as in how can a firebird control look stock in a Fiero? I assume you mean look like it came from the factory that way. The switch in my GT line up pretty close. It's not something that is glaringly obvious. I have managed to find a different switch I want to try on my next one. I think it might be an even closer match.
We know that these cars are mid 80's vehicles, but many don't. I think the interior and lights are what really dates Fiero's.
I am doing a stock interior, just out of another vehicle. I am not going to have any flashy items or colors in mine, just a stock looking 2000ish interior. But I know what you mean, but I am a stickler for details.
I made a detailed webpage on how to convert the 2000 Camaro Power Mirror Switch into a Fiero with Power Mirrors. A big pain to figure out, but now should be easy for anyone else to follow. This will probably work for other similiar switches (like a Grand Prix).
I could not find such a switch. I searched every type of switch catalog I could find and most are either 6 or 12 positions on 270 degrees or something like that. You can get close but no cigar. I rarely move mine off Max AC so I don't worry about it too much.
I've given a little thought to modifying the vacuum switch to be electrical, that way it would line up perfectly. But I have only given minimal thought to that, and haven't come up with anything yet.
Where did you find a 12-position, on 270 degrees? That would work very well.
The Firebird hvac switch has 8 positions on 180 degrees or 7 intervals every 25.7 degrees
The switch I have in my car now has 6 positions on about 160 degrees or 5 intervals every 32 degrees
The new switch I have has 12 positions on 330 degrees or 11 intervals every 30 degrees.
So it's better, but not that much better. To be perfect it would need 16 positions on 360. I haven't seen anything like that.
The Fiero uses 6 positions but elliminated the "vent" because I have a separate switch for the a/c compressor which makes the a/c position the same as vent. The 1 pole 12 position rotary switches are pretty common, here's a couple:
Just wanted to say thanks for the great build thread. It is one of my favorites I have read and is extremely informative. I believe I will conquer this swap once I get my motor swap done. But anyhow I just wanted to let you two know your both are pimp interior gurus!
I have found that the speed sensor has two wires coming from it: a yellow and a light purple with a stripe.
This changes to a yellow and a regular purple with stripe at the plug in front of the computer in the center console.
Now I know that the VSS signal that goes to the speedometer is a single-brown wire.
Where do these two wires join into one? Is one just a positive (+12v), and the other the signal? Or is there some sort of box, etc. that converts the signal before the speedometer? I am basing this on the diagram:
I see Firebird P/N B12 is labeled as a VSS, but I don't see any other VSS signal.
I don't seem to be getting a speedo signal to the gauge, so I am trying to trace down what I assume is a broken wire.
Neither of the two wires are tied to the brown-speedo wire. Should one of them be? If so, I will just run a new wire to avoid taking apart the entire wire loom.
Thanks in advance.
[This message has been edited by cheetah (edited 11-14-2005).]
I think I answered this before...maybe not it's late
But the VSS hi (yel) and VSS low (ppl/wht) are an unbuffered 4000 pulse per mile sine wave signal that go into the Stock Fiero speedometer at C2 S and R respectively. The Fiero speedometer board buffers the signal then it goes through a divide by two circuit and THAT signal is what goes out to the ECM as a 2000 pulse per mile single wire (grn/wht) from pin U. Note that these are the 88 colors, I don't know if it's the same for all years.
Now the firebird gauge expects a buffered 4000 pulse per mile square wave. The way I do it is to retain the Fiero speedometer board and use the buffered 4000 pulse per mile signal. The 88 speedometer outputs this sgnal on pin M, (it was intended to be used by the electro-hydraulic power steering). The 2000 pulse per mile signal still goes to the ECM and is also used by the cruise.
Now member TK in tech has been showing me how to extract the 4000 pulse per mile signal from the earlier boards before it goes into the devide by two circuit, but I haven't demonstrated that ability yet.
If you delete the Fiero speedometer altogether you are probably tapping into the dead wire in the console, and your ECM is also not going to get a signal.
If you are runnng an engine swap and don't need the ECM there is a workardound for the VSS signal. In leiu of the 88 board you can simple hook up the unbuffered 4000 pulse per mile VSS hi to the firebird speedometer and it should work okay. I've never tried it but from what I understand the speedometer might bounce a little at low speeds. If you are running a stock ECM you need the divide by two circuit and have to add that back in somehow.
Did that answer your question?
Solving the riddle of the buffered 4000 ppm is one of the things holding up the PNP box. I want to make sure I have a solution so the user doesn't have to deal with this issue.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-15-2005).]
Solving the riddle of the buffered 4000 ppm is one of the things holding up the PNP box. I want to make sure I have a solution so the user doesn't have to deal with this issue.
I solved this one a long time ago when I did my Grand Am dash. Head to the junkyard and pull the yellow buffer box off of any 4 or 6 cyl. 3rd gen F-body. It's piggy-backed on the ECM under the glovebox. This little box gives 2000 and 4000 ppm buffered output. It's basically just the buffer and divide by two circuitry used on the Fiero's speedo board.
Hope this helps. BTW, if you get your hands on one of these, as well as a pre-88 speedo, you can see where the 4000 ppm buffered signal can be pulled off of the Fiero board. If mine wasn't buried in the dash I would tell you which pin it was. There was a land for it on my 86 board, but there was no wire in the connector.
Edit: As far as the rotary switch, here's what I did - I found an open-frame switch on a plastic substrate. The contacts were all held in with miniature rivets. I removed the detent spring, so the vacuum switch in the panel would provide the detents. I then marked any of the contacts that lined up with the detent positions, and removed the rest by drilling out the rivets. A couple of the contacts were moved slightly to line up with the detent positions by heating them with a soldering iron and then rotating them slightly in the (melted) substrate. I had to make 3 layers to capture all of the necessary positions, but it works great.
[This message has been edited by Gary W (edited 11-18-2005).]
I solved this one a long time ago when I did my Grand Am dash.... As far as the rotary switch, here's what I did -...
This is some great stuff you have here. Do you have a build up thread for your GA Dash? I'm not an electrical person, per se, so I'm amazed at the stuff you guys have figured out.
I wouldn't know how to spot the buffered 4000 ppm from a hole in the wall. But I would prefer to use the pre-88 boards, (versus the 3rd gen device) since I have a box full of the old Fiero speedometers. I haven't had time to find that pin through. The way TK described it didn't match up to anything I was looking at. Something you said just clicked... if I compare the 88 and the pre-88 and trace back that extra pin I should see where to tap in on the pre-88 boards? I just recall that the two boards didn't look that much alike, but I'll give it a try.
And the open frame switch mod is brilliant. I suppose I would have come up with that eventually, but I'm having trouble finding open frame switches. I can do all the switching I need with one layer and a logic circuit and relays. The relays are kind of primitive, but remember, I'm not a sparky, so I tend to want to do things mechanically. But I've given up on finding a switch with the proper indexing, I guess I have to make one as you did by redrilling the holes. Brilliant!!
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-18-2005).]
OK, I dug out my old box of junk from the conversion.
Here is a picture of an '86 speedo board:
The 4th pin down from the top is 4000 ppm buffered. There should be no wire in the Fiero harness going to this pin.
Here is my rotary switch setup:
You can see how I staggered the contacts so they line up at each detent.
Here is an unmolested switch frame for comparison:
And the complete HVAC, using part of the old board to make it PnP:
I forgot that I was able to do it with a 2-layer switch. I retained the electrical contacts in the GA vacuum knob to turn on the compressor on the AC and Defrost positions. The fan switch was a straight plug-in to the Fiero harness, and the mixing door is still actuated by a cable with this control - I just had to splice the cables together on the heater box.
[This message has been edited by Gary W (edited 11-18-2005).]
It's a custom design, so you either love/hate the way it looks. But everyone loves the way it sounds. 
.jpg)
.jpg)
