I'm glad you are happy so far. I put together a great team to build this car.....Alltrbo being the head engineer from afar of course. So, if it fails, we know who to blame...lol. I think we can smooth out the rest of the intake and even ceramic coat it if you like....maybe a nice satin black would look good. There are a few small details that I don't quite agree with on the build, but Alltrbo has heard my arguements and sided with me more often than not...but regardless, I'm building this for him, so he has all the final say. I'm having fun and getting paid without having to take my clothes off for men, so I'm happy. Dave
Originally posted by bmwguru: I'm having fun and getting paid without having to take my clothes off for men, so I'm happy. Dave
In that case, I hope you get lots and lots of Fiero business!
I enjoy being the 'systems engineer' for sure, at least I can do that much, if I can't be the technician as well. I'm not the drop it off and "give me XXX horsepower" kind of guy (have I said that before? I'm losing it). It's quite a switch for me. I'm a NASA electronics technician who builds the stuff designed by engineers (who are so very often completely incompetent that it's scary), so I know that it's very good to openly receive input from the technician... the kind who does his job well, anyway. I've also learned that it's always the engineer's fault! hehe (j/k) Well, at least I'm on-and-off going to school to get a degree in Aerospace Engineering (if I can ever kick these stupid health problems... )
I'd rather powder the intake than ceramic, it doesn't have to deal with the temps the exhaust does, and I think it's cheaper than the process used to ceramic coat aluminum (brief search, I could be wrong). Smoothed satin black (with sanded bare aluminum numbers/letters for now) would be nice. Hmm... Let's talk about that. As always, cost plays a huge part. My wife hates this car enough already!
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 02-03-2010).]
I just read that ^^^ again, and didn't mean to imply that Dave can't engineer or design anything himself. He is, of course, designing specific components for my car, but you really have to look no further than his VR6 swap to see that he knows what he's doing on all fronts.
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 02-15-2010).]
Here is the relocated oil drain as per Steven's specs. We were limited to the location as to where the drain could be added. Too close to the rear of the pan and the cv joint would interfere. Too close to the front of the pan and the axle shaft could hit it. Basically we tested the suspension under full compression, full drop and all inbetween and found we only had around 30mm to work with on the pan. We located the drain to the top most part of the pan and the only spot feasible. It is located across from the stock location, so I know that the pan baffles won't be an issue. The drain hose is always at an angle and never horizontal. Everything is to spec. Steven, the album has more pics if you would like to see and post up at your disgression. Dave
Beautiful. Now I see how little room there is, the fit was very well dynamically tested and executed considering the constraints. I don't think the drain line angle should be an issue, I've seen worse. Though if it is, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it (scavenge pumps are always an option)
I appreciate the additional pics to add to my collection as they help me get a better 3D visualization, but for the purposes of this thread those three pics are perfect, they show everything that there is to show in that area. Thanks for posting them.
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 03-08-2010).]
Here is a quick pic of the finished logs. The Y-pipe looks just as good. I should have an "in car" pic later this week, but I had to pull the engine again to fabricate an a/c compressor bracket. It has been discontinued from the dealer and seems like more trouble to find one than just make it.
Here is a quick pic of the finished logs. The Y-pipe looks just as good. I should have an "in car" pic later this week, but I had to pull the engine again to fabricate an a/c compressor bracket. It has been discontinued from the dealer and seems like more trouble to find one than just make it.
Beautiful peaces!! Just make sure your guru builds you a bracket to give support on the turbo flange so the Y pipe is not on stress all the time because with the weight of the turbo and the lateral movement the Y pipe will crack or break. Can't wait to see it running!. I hope you doing well physically too.
Definitely, bmwguru is going to fab up a nice bracket to hold the turbo's weight. That's very near on the to-do list. Thanks for the well wishes!
Well I made it up there and back, looks good so far! I have pics on my camera but it'll be a little while before I can upload them. We discussed several more things since it was easier to do while the car was right there. He'll be completing the exhaust, and eliminating the lower half of the trunk. My wife doesn't like that much, but that's why she drives her 4-door Civic with a massive trunk instead.
I have more body mods on the way and more in mind upon the return of MIDTRBO, I'll get there eventually.
Dave and I both had a very miserable month I think, but we're both pretty much back on track (I have a new Camaro DD now, and I'm healing nicely from my motorcycle accident. :/ ) More updates to come before long...
OBTW, Dave's orange/black GT and Joey's VR6 powered Fiero are even more awesome in person! Pics don't do the 'drool factor' justice.
Still gotta upload my pics, first I have to swap more practical wheels onto the new DD then take a bunch of pics of one of the AWD Talons that I have for sale, then hopefully I can post up the Haus pics that I took. I'm shooting for all of that today. I'm finally recovering enough from my motorcycle accident that I can move my upper body around freely and much less painfully.
I haven't received word from Dave as to what he's done since my last update, but I'm still in the process of ordering and finding a few parts to get to him. We are reaching the home stretch as far as him firing this thing up, though!
Unboundmo, no reason to be jealous! This thing is still just an old faded 80's GM car that hasn't run in several years.
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 05-09-2010).]
Well...... not mine. I'M READY FOR BOOST on my newly built 3.4L p/r with forged internals and I can't wait for that whip feel.. Though my engine gives me a turbo sensation now... Just think ------- I can't wait
Here is a quick pic of Steven's car getting the alignment done as per his specs on this Memorial Day weekend. Who needs bbq's and beer when there are Fieros to work on.
Head's killing me, waiting for meds to work. When I was there I only got a few decent pics, camera not set up for the lighting, and too close. Not much typing for now, just clicking.
More news later.
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 06-01-2010).]
Originally posted by fieromadman: Looks like we have a lot of common ideas for engineering solutions.
VERY interested to see final outcomes!
Yessir (and me too!). Yours and others I have studied as well. These aren't all mine and Dave's (and Will's) ideas, at least at first, though I do try to give credit where credit is due. As you might have read, though, I have explored pretty much all possibilities to build what I want, so a lot of it is from my own perspective, which must mean that great minds do think alike. Also, like all designs, there has to be compromises and a lot of us come up with similar solutions to the problems, which 'may' mean that a particular solution is the best one. I guess it may also mean that we're all just dumb. I love your car, it's not too often that you see a car owned for a long time and built up better and better over the years. I find that to be awesome, and MIDTRBO will hopefully be mine in the same way.
Carbon, it's more like a Gen II.V, hehe.
In short (I'll try...) The decklid brace above the compressor housing will have to be notched, which I really don't like, but that's about as short as the Y-pipe could get without becoming a T-pipe (no thanks). Dave's going to install some type of decklid strut on the right side that will be strong enough to hold up the decklid on its own. It's not fully determined yet, but it'll work out.
The exhaust will still be done how I want it, with a 'sport' mode and a 'race' mode, and adjustable anywhere in between. However, the layout had to change from my plan, particularly because I forgot all about the rear sway-bar taking up that room, heh. Hence, the half-cut trunk I mentioned earlier. That should also give me more room for my functional rear diffuser.
You can slightly see the cuts Dave made in the header flanges to relieve some of the thermal expansion stresses that might otherwise cause the welds to crack.
The turbine housing has also been ceramic coated as you can see, and for overkill points it's getting a nice turbine blanket on it too. He'll be making various heat-shields to protect the components that are close to the inferno.
A stock dogbone bracket would have bolted up to the heads, but Dave wanted to make a stronger one since I didn't have one already. I think I may want to beef up the trunk side too. I purposely don't expect too much off-boost torque (which is when it'll count most) so I think everything should hold up, but I've heard of cracking there and it is a poly mount, so I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Pretty soon I'm going to show off a bit of what I've been slowly collecting for the interior over the last couple of years.
I don't remember how much I've hinted at it, but now that my twin-turbo Camaro is gone , my time-machine is gone , my AWD Talon's are going , and I have a new reliable Camaro , I will definitely be going further with the Fiero. In addition to going above and beyond already planned suspension mods and fabrication (Will is the know-it-all in that arena, I know a bit), I'll be building up a very stout destroker short-block Gen III "3200" (so then no-more TGP parts, which is fine with me). I'll keep the top-end and accessory drive that Dave installed, especially with its now 'custom' rotated plenum, though there may be 'some' top-end porting and a 'little' cam involved. Add that onto what we're building up already and throw in a few extra key supporting mods, and that's about all I'm going to say for now so I don't get too far ahead of myself... just remember what I said awhile back about what this turbo can do with the right setup.
------------------ '10 Camaro LT/RS, 312hp V6 6-speed '88 Fiero GT - coming soon! - Project MIDTRBO The rest of my cars are for sale There's no replacement for turbo placement
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 06-09-2010).]
The compressor side hasn't been clocked properly yet, and the turbo isn't quite mounted on the crossover in the pics, so it will pull away from the strut tower just a bit further. When all that's taken care of the 2.5" charge pipe will fit, albeit, a tight fit (isn't everything? heh..)
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 06-13-2010).]
It's "official", I just got permission from my wife to put all of the money I will receive from selling both of my AWD Talon's straight into MIDTRBO. That'll just about finish it up without using too much more income. That includes the stout 3200 shortblock, W/A IC, smaller items, and the high quality paint job (I'm going to have lildevil do the paint, he's a painter here in MD and has done several Fieros, including his own).
Also, I'm flirting with the idea of selling my VW wheel/tire combo and going with ASA AR1's. Unfortunately everyone has them and I love the VW 5-spokes , but the AR1's are an inexpensive way to get better performance out of the car. The VW wheels are 17x7 all the way around and weigh 24lbs each, and with the AR1's I'd go with 17x9 in the rears and 16x7's in the front with the proper offsets. The 17's weigh 21lbs and the 16's weigh 18lbs, and I can get a better tire width combo to match the weight distribution. I'll have it corner-weighted before I do this.
That'll reduce unsprung weight and rotational mass all in one (depending on the tire weight differences). Slightly better suspension action, acceleration, and braking. Either that or the effective mass will be the same, but I get much wider tires (or somewhere in between), and that's not to mention that the fronts with a 48mm offset won't stick out on the '88 like the VW wheels do a bit, and I think the staggered diameter looks good on a Fiero. They should all fit around the 12" Corvette rotors. win-lose-win-win
Here's a quick poor-quality PS:
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 06-13-2010).]
So, its coming along then! That'll be one bad ride!
I leave to get mine from the Haus on Thursday morning. If everything works out *fingers crossed* I'll be in the Missing Piece by Thursday afternoon! Just ironed out some details with Joey, she's been kind enough to offer my wife and I a ride from the airport to the shop, and I gladly accepted after I found out what a rental car for a couple hours would be. My hopes are high as, according to Joey, 'the car is wicked fast'.
Any idea when yours will be done? I look foward to seeing some numbers on that thing!
I was out driving Vince's car today....made some slight changes to the tune. I really can't wait to drive project Midtrbo, but knowing my OCD, it will be delayed a bit cause I seem to like doing things three times....even when the first part looks great (except for that slight imperfection....oh damn, maybe I'll just make another. It only took three hours....and I know that if I add a little angle to that part, it will be stronger....oh yes....that will do). Not to hijack this thread, but that was an example of why project Midtrbo is taking a bit longer than it should. Between Steven's OCD, my OCD and our busy schedules, only perfection is expected. I spent 10 hours a day for five straight days fabricating one part that should have taken three or four hours.....and I only billed for the four hours. Dave
I spent 10 hours a day for five straight days fabricating one part that should have taken three or four hours.....and I only billed for the four hours.
I might have to plan a trip out to NJ with Dave this year, I have a feeling we would get along quite well.
Vince, thanks! Sounds like your car will be a very fun ride! We were closing in on a June completion date largely due to Dave's future move, but he's not going anywhere for a little while now and my car isn't far enough along for a June ETA I think, but hopefully within the next couple months at most. I can't wait to get it back! It'll be a while before I get 'real' numbers because I have a LOT of tuning to do, I'm having Dave to (hopefully) get it running 'reasonably enough' on my modified TGP .bin's to get home, then I'm going to throw in a 3-bar MAP and start fresh with Code59, it's a MUCH better code and WAY more documented. I'm still thinking of what we can do to get it "WOTable" before I leave, so at least that part can be checked out. I had a 15psi spring put in the WG, though, so the TGP code wouldn't allow that to begin with even if I did have him put the 42lb/hr injectors back in (I haven't yet learned how to clear out the 10psi fuel cutoff limit in that code). So at the ETA I'm thinking it'll be boostable and still quite quick, but not fully usable until I tune it in better. I can tune over the phone with Dave if need be, but swapping from $8F (TGP code) to Code59 is a whole different ball game.
I'm really trying to sell BOTH AWD Talons before the Fiero gets back as it will help me IMMENSELY with the extra space, extra funding, and lesser stress. Once it's back and running, I can do my parts one at a time while keeping it running, there's a lot more motivation and less "overwhelming factor" that way.
OCD is a blessing and a curse, but mostly a curse. I don't feel like my standards are all that high, it just seems to me that most other's standards are really low. Of course that's often not the case, it's just the perception I have of things (of course, there are many who do have really low standards)
Dave speaks truth. For the custom work he does, almost anywhere else would have run me dry long ago. Of course I feel that many other shops are overpriced, but you can't beat the Haus total value.
Now...
LOL, that wheel swap makes me want to go or something.
I eyed a really sweet set of Enkei racing wheels at 16lbs for 17x8's , but they aren't available in 16's at all and the only width available on a 5x100 17 is 8". No good.
I have these (real) leather Mr. Mike's seats for MIDTRBO, but I'm thinking that I want to trade them for a decent set of black cloth racing seats. By decent, I mean reclining, fully padded, cloth, and in good shape. They don't have to be any of the really nice brands, but they need to be of decent build quality. For the right pair I'd be willing to trade these seats and some cash.
Otherwise, they're what is going into MIDTRBO. I have them from my first Fiero. They are comfortable and look really good in the car. The only moderate wear is on the driver's seat bottom. With a decent leather cleaner, die, and conditioner, they could look about as good as new. The slight loose-wrinkles you see in the middle of the lower side bolsters were just from boxes sitting on them, they're already re-stretched tight.
Just thought I'd share, and put it out there that I'd rather have a set of nice racing seats now that I have a comfy DD.
More interior goodies I've been collecting to come soon...
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 06-20-2010).]
Any updates? A lot of the pics are broken links.. I have been offered what I have been told is a Mclaren turbo 3.1 and am looking at doing a basic swap. My Fiero is a 5 speed and you said earlier that the shift linkages are blocked by the turbo, how was that overcame?
Broken links, really? I can see them all still. They're all hosted via Cliff's server. Maybe it was down for a short time?
I'm going to email Dave tomorrow asking about the status.
The linkage issue was overcome by using nothing from the TGP except the shortblock. Seriously, I think it's only worth the basic swap if you have an auto because otherwise, at the least, you'll have to make a custom crossover that will still keep the turbo out of the way of the TB. That's doable, just more work required. With an auto, the TGP manifolds, crossover, and turbo can be used. At that point, after a couple more ~minor mods you can make around 240-250hp at the crank. That's about the limit before you start really having to add more $$$. That'd be a quick Fiero nonetheless, on par with a stock L67 swap.
There was NO WAY I was going with an auto, though. Before too long I won't even have the TGP shortblock anymore, just a custom turbo 3200 destroker.
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 06-21-2010).]
Broken links, really? I can see them all still. They're all hosted via Cliff's server. Maybe it was down for a short time?
I'm going to email Dave tomorrow asking about the status.
The linkage issue was overcome buy using nothing from the TGP except the shortblock. Seriously, I think it's only worth the basic swap if you have an auto because otherwise, at the least, you'll have to make a custom crossover that will still keep the turbo out of the way of the TB. That's doable, just more work required. With an auto, the TGP manifolds, crossover, and turbo can be used. At that point, after a couple more ~minor mods you can make around 240-250hp at the crank. That's about the limit before you start really having to add more $$$. That'd be a quick Fiero nonetheless, on par with a stock L67 swap.
There was NO WAY I was going with an auto, though. Before too long I won't even have the TGP shortblock anymore, just a custom turbo 3200 destroker.
The issue must've been a network issue, cause I can see them now.
Crud. I really don't have the skills or tools to fab anything, and I'm currently between jobs and as such, pretty much broke, so I can't really afford to convert it to an auto, and like you, I don't think I could live with myself if I made it not a manual. LOL
)
, my time-machine is gone 
or something. 
