Originally posted by Rallaster: You want 10's. The additional weight is going to be negligible with the amount of power your Turbo 6 is going to be putting to the pavement. /concern
It's not just the power/weight ratio, I'm more concerned about the handling. While the weight will be fairly centralized, it's still extra weight, and that puts more stress on everything.
The Pioneer shallow 10's I have weigh 25lbs for both, and the extra-shallow 8's I'm looking at weigh 8lbs for both. I guessing the boxes for the 10's would weigh about 10 lbs extra for both, compared to the boxes for the 8's. That's ~27 lbs total. While not seeming like much, it all adds up, I'm adding a lot of weight to this car, but trying to keep the increase minimal. Leaving out subs altogether is not an option, and my symmetry obsession states that I have to have one on each side. The 8's are also shallower so would save me about an inch behind each seat.
And here are the 8's, they are direct replacements for the underseat subs on some BMW's. Lots of people are very happy (and impressed) with these subs. (Click on SWS-8 down at the bottom) http://www.earthquakesound....virtuemart&Itemid=82
Either pair would be using the Pioneer amp I bought for the car. It would overdrive the 8's if I let it, but I wouldn't, and there's probably a decent bit of error margin built into the subs anyway. For the 10's wired in parallel (2-ohms), it is the perfect amp.
I'm mostly typing this out for my future reference, it helps to have it laid out in front of me, but also for anyone interested. I'll decide eventually.
As for MIDTRBO updates, I'm waiting for Dave to recover from the apparently insane amount of BMW (etc.) work that he's been getting in.
Roughly .5 cubic feet. Outside dimensions are 27" tall, 20" wide, and 3.5" thick.
I haven't had much time to fool with it, but this winter I am going to build a box to put it in the factory location. With the shallow depth of the sub, I might be able to get it flush with the bottom of the dash.
Thanks Tony, that gives me a good physical comparison.
Well there's not much to do while sitting here in pain, so I figured I'd digitally load up Amida's Fi 512TR nose and Whodeanie's production F355 bumper onto my Fiero (though the color is still 'wrong' as previously mentioned). I used pics of a real 512TR and F355 for this PS. With some design of matching sideskirts, I think these will look fantastic together.
I like it. Lemme know what you think.
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 11-14-2010).]
Thanks Tony, that gives me a good physical comparison.
Well there's not much to do while sitting here in pain, so I figured I'd digitally load up Amida's Fi 512TR nose and Whodeanie's production F355 bumper onto my Fiero (though the color is still 'wrong' as previously mentioned). I used pics of a real 512TR and F355 for this PS. With some design of matching sideskirts, I think these will look fantastic together.
Roughly .5 cubic feet. Outside dimensions are 27" tall, 20" wide, and 3.5" thick.
I haven't had much time to fool with it, but this winter I am going to build a box to put it in the factory location. With the shallow depth of the sub, I might be able to get it flush with the bottom of the dash.
Tony
Wow. The SWS-10 looks like it wants 3x that for box volume. And the SWS-8 is still rated at about 1.0 cu ft. But with only 0.5 cu ft available, the 8 would probably sound 100x better than the 10 does.
But this is why I tell people that depending on where in the passenger cabin you mount the sub, a 6.5" or 8" is really the largest you want to go.
Wow. The SWS-10 looks like it wants 3x that for box volume. And the SWS-8 is still rated at about 1.0 cu ft. But with only 0.5 cu ft available, the 8 would probably sound 100x better than the 10 does.
But this is why I tell people that depending on where in the passenger cabin you mount the sub, a 6.5" or 8" is really the largest you want to go.
Odd. The documentation with the sub actually calls for a minimum sealed volume of 0.38, and a maximum sealed volume of 0.75 for the 10".
There are a whole lot of compromises in both driver and box design to accomodate small boxes, not the least of which is that of proper volume. A given driver might produce acceptable results in a box that small, but the proper design based on Thiele-Small parameters to give a good response curve would have a much greater volume.
As I recall from my box building days, 1/2 cf is a tiny box even for an 8" driver.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-14-2010).]
just a quick update (should have been done two weeks ago, but we have been going nuts here). Anyway, we fabricated a custom battery mount using Steven's battery spec. He wanted the battery as far down and close to the windshield as possible, so here is what we came up with.
and this is what I see when I come home.....I think my dog is saying I don't spend enough time with her.
Thanks Dave. It's about time for the car get some JUICE again. Just please make sure the battery stays fully charged in the meantime, I want it to last many years. It'll be on a tender full time when in my garage.
LOL @ your dog and cat. That is totally a LOLCAT worthy pic, you should submit it!
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Originally posted by Will: There are a whole lot of compromises in both driver and box design to accommodate small boxes, not the least of which is that of proper volume. A given driver might produce acceptable results in a box that small, but the proper design based on Thiele-Small parameters to give a good response curve would have a much greater volume.
As I recall from my box building days, 1/2 cf is a tiny box even for an 8" driver.
The graph for my 10's is available on Pioneer's website, along with other detailed specifications, though I don't feel like looking it up right now. I don't remember if the documentation is available online for the SWS-8's, but I'm sure I can obtain that info easily enough. I'm not going for an optimal system in this car (that requires center seating for me to want to even bother), just something that will sound plenty decent, and it will. I have several built in high and low pass crossover options as well as a built in EQ to tune in a reasonable bass curve for any of my options.
I'm annoyed. Of course after I ordered all of my 2 1/16" auxiliary gauges, Speedhut comes out with a 4 inch "quad gauge" displaying 4 of the exact gauges that I bought, but in a perfect package to make my instrument cluster symmetrical (symmetry is next to godliness). I'd have a 4" quad on the left, 4" GPS speedo on the right, and 4" tach right in the center. Add one more 2 1/16" gauge to my current package (oil temp sounds about right), and I'll have exactly three left over to mount into a 3 gauge plate located in the factory aux gauge housing (boost, WB AFR and oil temp). 3 in the cluster and 3 in the housing, that's also symmetrical by the numbers. Have I mentioned that I'm obsessed with symmetry?
Here it is (pictured here exactly as I'd order it)...
I'm selling my 4 equivalent 2 1/16" gauges for $300 total. That's an insane steal for all 4, brand new in boxes. Full retail for all 4 is just under $500, and still just under $400 at 20% off with their Thanksgiving sale! The actual gauges are pictured on page 4. I have to sell them before I get the quad. I'll be posting these in The Mall. Anyone interested?
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 11-25-2010).]
Oh, and I made a new sig. Let me know what you think!
It would look better in color and a little sharper. Try the heatwave look. Ever looked across a parking lot on a hot day and see that it looks kind of funny? That would be cool.
[This message has been edited by Daredevil05 (edited 11-25-2010).]
I'm selling my 4 equivalent 2 1/16" gauges for $300 total. That's an insane steal for all 4, brand new in boxes. Full retail for all 4 is just under $500, and still just under $400 at 20% off with their Thanksgiving sale! The actual gauges are pictured on page 4. I have to sell them before I get the quad. I'll be posting these in The Mall. Anyone interested?
Now that I'm driving my car again, I'm thinking of things like instrumentation. The stock tach won't cut it anymore, and I'm tired of the engine instrumentation not being *accurate*. That quad looks like a really good idea.
Doesn't look like they have digital speedometers, though. An analog speedometer is a waste of instrument panel space, IMNSHO. I'd much rather have a digital speedo/odo/trip (maybe as part of a diagnostic display) surrounded by indicator lights than use that space for an analog speedo and have to locate the lights elsewhere.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-25-2010).]
Originally posted by Daredevil05: It would look better in color and a little sharper. Try the heatwave look. Ever looked across a parking lot on a hot day and see that it looks kind of funny? That would be cool.
The blurry look did look better in color, I put it in b&w afterward and it took away most of the depth. That does make me want to try something else. I like the heatwave idea, I'll have to try that when I'm feeling miserable again. I have it in black and white because it isn't finished yet, and so it is the stock color currently (which I dislike) but I don't want to put in the PS'd color(s) that it will be, because it isn't yet. Thanks for the feedback.
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Originally posted by Will: Now that I'm driving my car again, I'm thinking of things like instrumentation. The stock tach won't cut it anymore, and I'm tired of the engine instrumentation not being *accurate*. That quad looks like a really good idea.
Doesn't look like they have digital speedometers, though. An analog speedometer is a waste of instrument panel space, IMNSHO. I'd much rather have a digital speedo/odo/trip (maybe as part of a diagnostic display) surrounded by indicator lights than use that space for an analog speedo and have to locate the lights elsewhere.
As I've mentioned before, I can't recommend Speedhut enough. They are everything I want in a company and product.
You can get various standalone digital speedos (or make your own) and I'd like one as well, but I don't think the analog is bad. They also make them in 3 3/8's and even 2 5/8's to take up less room. If you get the Revolution series gauges then they all come with integrated settable hi/low warning lights so you wouldn't need that room. All you'd need is a couple small spaces for LED's for things like the Check Engine light and washer fluid level or whatever, and that's cake. You can even get some of their speedometers with integrated turn signal indicators and high-beam indicator. IIRC you didn't want a GPS speedo, but they do come with a digital odometer and trip odometer along with peak speed recall and other performance measurements too.
Originally posted by 87_special: Any updates? Any more pics from the Haus?
He's been slammed with his normal business. I'm hoping for updates soon, too. The car is very close. Pretty much all that's left other than a couple odds and ends is to combine the two wiring harnesses (stock Fiero and stock TGP) to make my actual harness.
I really want it back now so I can get to driving, tuning, and installing the water/air IC setup while it's cold out (and now that my broken truck will be gone), the cold temps are very helpful to quell detonation while I'm tuning (It should also be pretty darn quick like that). That'll nearly complete the "Stage I" powertrain, then it's on to finish the "Stage I" phase of the body which will include some slightly more extreme mods than the usual. I plan on passing it on to Whodeanie to complete the time consuming parts (fiberglass work and a FULL DEPTH extractor tray/hood.) After that it'll head back over to Waldorf, MD to lildevil's paint booth for its new coating of awesome. During all of the above, the interior will be slowly updated to a jet black theme with a few blue contrasting bits and "comfy" reclinable racing seats, and the Speedhut gauges.
Once all that's done I'll dive back into the suspension that will hopefully have my custom parts designed, produced, test fitted, and ready to install by then. I'm serious about the handling, I won't accept any of the 'usual' mods that compromise the decent geometry that the '88 already has, instead I'll make it better and stronger.
That will complete the car's "Stage I", and it should be a blast and well balanced in every way, definitely on par with or beyond the performance levels of the 'good' modern sportscars. I'll then start "Stage II", that's when it gets serious.
Oh, and I tweaked my sig slightly this morning, just a few minor things that were bugging me that I had time to get to.
------------------ '88 Fiero GT - Project MIDTRBO '10 Camaro LT/RS There's no replacement for turbo placement
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 12-05-2010).]
If you don't hear from me, that is typically good news.....it means I'm working on the car. We slowed down a bit, so I'm spending about three hours a day working on Midtrbo. We are doing the wiring harness install now, along with other odds and ends. The BOV has been installed. The coil cover has been fabricated and powdercoated wrinkle black. The PCV system has been modified. The vacuum system is almost completed with the exception of the turbo hoses. The decklid has been notched. Anyway, I'm billing Steven for this time, so let me get back to work. Dave
spent 6 hours on the wiring harness today. The plenum and throttle body have been permenantly mounted with gaskets. Fuel injector wiring is completed with master plug. Most of the engine sensors have been wired up with new ecm terminals. Located the vss plug and terminal kit for the impulse sender (it will be delivered Thursday). Other than that, I should have the wiring harness completed this week. Dave
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 12-14-2010).]
Edited for... uhh... grammar and punctuation. (IOW, a translation )
The Lunesta has mostly kicked in tonight, but I thought I'd mention one of my other car situations before I head off to bed. I got my AWD Talon 'running' after 4 years to use as a winter beater because they seem to like putting down more SALT than SNOW. Man that Talon screams. It'll run away from the 320hp Camaro like it was a slow, fat pig (oh wait...), and that's on really low boost for the car (12 psi; I used to run 21 psi daily) while barely idling on 2 cylinders, having boost/vacuum leaks, and something that could only loosely be called a 'tune'. I cranked up the boost, it'll put that Camaro in reverse! GOOD GAWSH. I hope the Fiero can at least hold a candle to it even before I go much further with the Fiero (other than the W/A IC install and more boost). Either way, 60V6's have a MUCH nicer exhaust note, this will have MUCH more low end, and the Fiero has the turning radius of a go-kart compared to the Talon's annoying truck-like turns. The Talon makes for a good stripped down racecar for sure, but it's shortcomings have become too much to live with day to day. The Fiero should be great all around... well that's the goal anyway.
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 12-28-2010).]
Wiring harness is completed. We test fired the engine and it starts and runs pretty decent. I'll update more within the next month....Steven will be making a trip out to the Haus in January and we can get this project finished up. There is not much left to do other than tidy up a few things and I want to fabricate a new alternator bracket because the one that is on the car now just isn't making me happy. Dave
Dave, I'll send you an email soon, as soon as I get my neighbor's fence fixed that my Talon rolled down the hill and through , and also as soon as my wife and I fix the leaky bathroom sink that caused a moldy mess underneath. I'm highly allergic to certain kinds of mold.
My driveway/garage is eagerly awaiting MIDTRBO's return.
Okay, now that that's out of my system... I'll be heading up there soon, as Dave mentioned, so that I can hopefully dial the tune in enough to make it drivable. With any luck, I won't have to do anything. I will tweak a few things that I've thought about or that has changed since I burned the chip(s) at the least. Nothing major, though.
I wanted the easily swappable parts to stay stock for now so that the close-to-stock tune will be more likely to run it smoothly. With the TT IROC-Z I jumped into a lot of things right off the bat and it made it much more difficult to dial in (I never quite got there). It's running the stock TGP code ($8F) with a few minor changes. -A few things were tweaked in this version that I DL'd that should theoretically let it idle and coast-down better with the 5-speed, all TGP's were auto. A lot of people have used this code with manual trannies and to my knowledge not a single one of them has ironed out 'all' of the auto-to-manual stumbling issues, but hopefully this will be good enough until I switch to Code59. -I pulled some fuel down low and added some up top (then some more) because the Gen III top end flows better. Less torque down low and more power up top... -I pulled timing in the high-ish KPa's (amount of atmosphere being shoved in) to be very conservative for the initial shakedown. That's about it. The changes, though minor, are a complete stab in the dark. We'll see how it works out.
I kept the TB from the 3100, it's larger than the TGP's but smaller than the 3400's. That will soon get changed out for a 3400 TB when it gets home and runs fine. I'll probably have to fiddle with acceleration enrichment (AE), but not much. The TGP 22lb/hr injectors are installed so the base fueling won't be affected at all. Larger injectors tend to cause issues that need to be tuned out (more than just changing the injector constant). When it runs fine, I'll install the 42's. Though, I do plan on twisting the AFPR up to 55psi while at The Haus because that'll bring the flow up to about 25lb/hr, which still won't be quite enough. If they will handle the measly 8.7 psi, they'll be on the ragged edge and might go static (100% duty cycle... held open... not the greatest thing). In that case we'll either need to keep from going WOT at all, I'll need to pull lots of timing past 5psi or so, or the 42's will have to be installed 'early'. That might work out... we'll see. For now I just want the thing to run at a relaxed pace without jerking, stumbling and/or stalling the whole way home.
More coming soon...
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 01-01-2011).]
Your car looks great from the picture on the trailer. I currently have a 355 nose on mine, but if someone actually has a 512 nose as in your photo that would be so SWEET. The lines look much cleaner. It's taken me 7 years to get my wife to come around and accept further upgrades. Hoping to go to some Fiero meets this year. I also noticed you have Fiero leather seats from Mr. Mike's. Have you decided on Recaro seats? Charles
I would like to suggest running code 59 over $8F. I've used both and 59 is much better. 3bar map support, closed loop WBO2, even has autotune so you can get a nice base map
excellent work sofar exhaust and everything looks great. I really like the rims too. look like their made for the car
Originally posted by Charlie64: Your car looks great from the picture on the trailer. I currently have a 355 nose on mine, but if someone actually has a 512 nose as in your photo that would be so SWEET. The lines look much cleaner. It's taken me 7 years to get my wife to come around and accept further upgrades. Hoping to go to some Fiero meets this year. I also noticed you have Fiero leather seats from Mr. Mike's. Have you decided on Recaro seats? Charles
Amida is making the 512 nose, he's nearly done with the prototype. The fourth one he makes is reserved for me as I have put a deposit on it. It does look great. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/079750.html
I've decided on the Corbeau A4 seats, but my wife won't let me buy them until my Mr. Mike's are sold (go figure). I haven't been trying to sell them very hard yet as it's lower on the priority list. It'll get up there soon, though.
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Originally posted by scott0999: I would like to suggest running code 59 over $8F. I've used both and 59 is much better. 3bar map support, closed loop WBO2, even has autotune so you can get a nice base map
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Originally posted by ALLTRBO: ...I'm having Dave to (hopefully) get it running 'reasonably enough' on my modified TGP .bin's to get home, then I'm going to throw in a 3-bar MAP and start fresh with Code59, it's a MUCH better code and WAY more documented.
...I can tune over the phone with Dave if need be, but swapping from $8F (TGP code) to Code59 is a whole different ball game.
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Originally posted by ALLTRBO: I'll be switching to Code59, though. It's WAY more documented and supports 3-bar which I'll need.
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Originally posted by ALLTRBO: I wanted the easily swappable parts to stay stock for now so that the close-to-stock tune will be more likely to run it smoothly. With the TT IROC-Z I jumped into a lot of things right off the bat and it made it much more difficult to dial in (I never quite got there)...
...but hopefully this will be good enough until I switch to Code59.
Thanks for the suggestion though!
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 01-02-2011).]
I just ordered the rest of the hide-away tuning suite, a "recertified" 10.1" Asus netbook to hard mount into the rear storage compartment. It's nothing special, but it'll get the job done. I also bought a solid state drive (SSD) so that it won't get killed by every small bump, and 2GB of RAM to upgrade from 1GB. With those two upgrades and the bare-bones Windows 7 Starter, it should boot and shut down dern near instantly. It's very thin, only .9". The length and width will be a bit of a squeeze, but I'll make it work.
I'll take it up with me to the Haus with the tuning software loaded so I can give my poor old laptop (circa 2002) a rest, it's frail and has more or less turned into a desktop, heh (has over 7 years of near-daily use though, including many anti-lag AWD launches, wheel-hops, 11-second passes, numerous hard turns, rough pavement, and being dropped a couple times, etc! I only had to replace the HD once).
In other news, I had a dream last night that I got the car back and it was completely bad*ss.
I haven't had any time for anything at all lately, but here's an update.
Dave has finished everything but the new alternator bracket, severe weather has been holding him up. After that, it's time for my visit, then he'll test it out for a little while (I think) before I pick it up.
I need to make it to Back On Holiday's place to pick up his '88 GT front inner-fenderwells, but that has proven to be absolutely impossible for the last month or so. I'd like them to be installed before the car goes out for its first drive.
I got the netbook, installed the SSD and RAM upgrade, and all is going well. Cold boot up is now 42 seconds from pressing the power button to a fully loaded desktop and ready to work. Shut down takes 9 seconds. Those are down from 1:45 and 15 seconds, respectively, with the stock HDD and RAM.
I bought a mini-camcorder that will record up to full HD (1080p), and a 16GB SD card for it. Expect many videos, starting with my visit to the Haus. It also takes still pics up to 8MP, and I shot a couple at 2MP real quick for this thread since I didn't feel like pulling out the camera.
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 01-29-2011).]
the weather has been holding us up. Once I get caught up on the work, it snows and sets us back a few days with the workload. Our spare time is devoted to cleaning the parking lot and trying to make room for all the BMW's and Audi's that puked their engines this winter. I should be back on track in about three weeks. I had to take another quick swap in to take the burden off a bill that I need to pay asap. More to come... Dave
The additional weight is going to be negligible with the amount of power your Turbo 6 is going to be putting to the pavement. 
Just please make sure the battery stays fully charged in the meantime, I want it to last many years. It'll be on a tender full time when in my garage.
, and also as soon as my wife and I fix the leaky bathroom sink that caused a moldy mess underneath. I'm highly allergic to certain kinds of mold. 
