When I installed the camshaft it was supposed to come with the LS2 style chain guide. I couldn't see it in the box, so I left the stock LS4 one in. Well when I was packing up all the LS4 stuff to store it while working on the 383/Getrag, I found it... so first order of business was installing the LS2 timing chain guide:
Then the engine was given a bath at the carwash and the reassembly began. My button head obsession required that I replace the valve cover bolts with stainless button heads. To do this the stock bolts had to be cut to remove the support sleeve.
In this pic you can see the small washer on the left that some vendor thought would work fine for these bolts, but it is way too small, and the center hole as too much slop... the larger washer with the smaller hole is the one I modified:
I stacked 10 on a bolt and put them in the lathe and turned them down to the desired size:
Here is a pic of the engine going back together... you can see the stainless button heads and the washers on the valve cover, also you can see the intake and fuel rail resting in place (I have the VOLM cover off being painted blue).
I painted the front timing cover, installed the stainless button heads and installed the balancer for the last time. It is hard to see in this pic, but I also cut the vacuum elbow off the end of the intake and tapped the holes for 2 plugs. The brake booster vacuum supply will come off the neck of the intake.
It will be a rather slow process as I clean everything prior to installation... I am also fighting the urge to redo the LS4 water pump...
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 11-19-2011).]
Ooooooo.... that's purrrdy. Glad to see you're back on the LS4
I was flipping through the November issue of Street Rodder magazine the other day and thought about you when I saw this ad for a new low profile cast aluminum oil pan for LS series engines by Holley. Thought I'd stick a link to the product in your thread in case you or anyone else in the future might find it useful: www.holley.com/302-1.asp
Ooooooo.... that's purrrdy. Glad to see you're back on the LS4
I was flipping through the November issue of Street Rodder magazine the other day and thought about you when I saw this ad for a new low profile cast aluminum oil pan for LS series engines by Holley. Thought I'd stick a link to the product in your thread in case you or anyone else in the future might find it useful: www.holley.com/302-1.asp
Interesting pan. I think the C6 Vette pan would be a better choice though, especially for the Fiero, since it's baffled to avoid all the oil piling up on one side during heavy acceleration in any direction. I think it also fits the applications that Holley pan was designed for pretty well, though not entirely certain.
I was able to get the valley cover installed, if you look close you will notice I was slacking and only used the button heads on the bolts that will be visible:
Then the intake went on with more stainless steel button heads:
Then I spent a little time playing with another water pump option. The big challenge with the LS4 (and all other engines from the same family) is the coolant inlet/outlet are right next to each other and complicates plumbing/packaging. So why not just cap off the coolant exit ports and use the two freeze plugs coming off the heads. Some tube could be used to make a coolant crossover and the thermostat housing could be mounted on the cross over tube is a similar location as the old SBC.
Getting the coolant outlet out of the way, frees up room to run a water pump setup similar to the one I ran on my SBC (probably will need to go further forward to clear the wheel well, but you get the picture):
I am probably going to table the water pump idea until I do a low buck 4.8/Getrag swap... don't really need any more distractions to further delay getting the LS4 running.
you know that's one part of this swap that I haven't really thought about all that much is the water pump and front assembly. I really want to do the hatch back gt option so the deck lid wouldn't be a problem I don't think but I don't think that I'll have the gt hatch done by the time I'm ready to install it so that is a dilemma.
you know that's one part of this swap that I haven't really thought about all that much is the water pump and front assembly. I really want to do the hatch back gt option so the deck lid wouldn't be a problem I don't think but I don't think that I'll have the gt hatch done by the time I'm ready to install it so that is a dilemma.
If you get rid of the stock decklid hinges, the only real issue with the stock LS4 water manifold, is that the fill neck is on the wrong side of the engine. I'm thinking I might get rid of them, and do the same thing fieroguru did here with his decklid, and the custom very-low-profile hinge setup.
Is the balancer on the LS4 also a ribbed pulley? I'm curious to know if it would fit on an SBC small block to shorten the front end accessory stack.
Ken
Yes, the LS4 is a ribbed pulley. No it will not fit on the SBC - crankshaft bore and seal surface are different diameters. What you need is a balancer from an 89+ FWD 2.5L. It is a 6 rib balancer/pulley and is a direct swap to a SBC (unless you are using the vortec plastic engine cover or a taller gear drive). Left is a V8 archie balancer, middle is the 89+ FWD 2.5, and right is 3.1L FWD balancer:
Thanks for your response, Guru. I do have a small curiosity: Will a harmonic balancer for a four cylinder suffice for the small block v8? I am aware that the imbalance of the v8 is taken out with the flywheel. So it's then my understanding that the harmonic balancer does not technically "balance." So does it merely cancel the harmonics of the motor?
Thanks for your response, Guru. I do have a small curiosity: Will a harmonic balancer for a four cylinder suffice for the small block v8? I am aware that the imbalance of the v8 is taken out with the flywheel. So it's then my understanding that the harmonic balancer does not technically "balance." So does it merely cancel the harmonics of the motor?
Ken
The harmonic balancer is mostly to calm crankshaft harmonics vs. having anything to do with the actual rotating balance of the crankshaft assembly (at least when speaking of SBC's except the 400 - which did have a weight on the balancer). The ring mass on the 2.5 balancer is very similar to that of the Archie V-belt balancer (which was from the chevy inline 6).
Getting the coolant outlet out of the way, frees up room to run a water pump setup similar to the one I ran on my SBC (probably will need to go further forward to clear the wheel well, but you get the picture):
guru, i recently did this on my 3800 project, but i exited the coolant from the back of the heads. i think it provides better flow across the whole engine. (in the front, out the back) it is not done now, but you can see the freeze plugs have a teardrop shape around them with a bolt hole at the small end of the tear drop. i cut that shape from an inch thick piece of aluminum. the one bolt holds the block against the (empty) freeze plug hole and seals. i tapped 1/2 pipe thread into the aluminum block and screwed in a 3/4 nipple. is working great. i did a similar thing on a big block olds in a boat years ago. i like it.
OK, enough with the slacking... it is time to make progress.
Installed the flywheel on the engine. I used this home made tool to keep the crank from spinning as I torqued down the flywheel bolts:
Here are the flywheel bolts - they are the GM Performance Parts longer versions for using a crankshaft spacer - they work great with my aluminum flywheel:
Flywheel installed:
Then moved on to the clutch installation. Spec Stage 4+ for a 4.0L Ford Ranger
Used tape the build up the end of the ford alignment tool to fit the LS4 pilot bushing support (for the torque converter):
Notice the flange is on the transmission side to help with the recessed input shaft on the F40:
Pressure plate:
Notice the dowel pins locate the pressure plate to the flywheel:
Flywheel installed:
Then I installed the transmission and all the other mounts/brackets that were fabricated for this swap. To support the cradle while all this work is going on, I pulled out my electric/hydraulic scissor lift to keep things are a good working height:
Rear transmission mount:
Modified Intermediate shaft (modified Saab unit to make it longer) and fabricated bearing support:
Rear engine mount (the unpainted arm supports the muffler/exhaust):
Front engine mount, AC bracket, Alternator bracket and Idler base... yes this is a very busy area:
Front transmission mount and starter bracket to use the stock LS4 starter and starter placement:
Coil relocation bracket (there is another one on the other head):
Custom shifter cable bracket for the F40:
Here are some overall pics:
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 07-02-2016).]
Amazing! I love watching this build progress. I wish I could give you another '+' as not only have you provided a very detailed build thread,but you also take time for measurements along the way.
One of my goals with this swap was to drop the curb weight about 100 lbs vs. the old SBC/Getrag setup. The car with the old setup tipped the scales at 2960 lbs with 1720 on the rear (58.1%). Dropping 100 lbs from the rear would change the rear weight bias to 56.5%.
After I finished putting most of the accessories and other parts on, I went ahead and weighed the engine/transmission/cradle on a crude scale setup (2 6x6 beams and 4 bathroom scales - zerod out the weight of the 6x6). Here are a few pics of the setup on the scales:
So right now the weights are: DS PS Total 381 346 727
The last SBC/Getrag setup I weighed in this manner in a similar state of assembly was: DS PS Total 318 446 764
Granted there were some minor differences in components and state of assembly between these two setups so exact #'s are not as meaningful as the relative changes. The big thing to notice is that the F40 adds quite a bit of weight to the DS and the LS4 reduces quite a bit from the PS. It almost looks like a LS4/Getrag setup would be within 25 lbs from side to side.
I never weighed my old SBC setup in this manner, but it probably was a bit heavier due to my cast manifolds, heavier intake, custom water pump setup, and 2x3 cradle crossmembers. I think the drivetrain will end up contributing about 50-75 lbs to my weight loss goals and the other 25-50 will come from the chassis (removed trailer hitch as an example). I will only know if I made the weight loss goals once I have it running again and can take it back to the same scale used to weigh the car the first time.
Looking sharp there Guru. That side to side weight difference on the SBC/Getrag setup was an eye-opener... almost 130 lbs difference! (Then again, I suppose driving around with only the driver in the car probably has a certain neutralizing effect). I wonder how much the stock V6 drivetrain differs in total and the difference side to side... ever measured that?
Looking sharp there Guru. That side to side weight difference on the SBC/Getrag setup was an eye-opener... almost 130 lbs difference! (Then again, I suppose driving around with only the driver in the car probably has a certain neutralizing effect). I wonder how much the stock V6 drivetrain differs in total and the difference side to side... ever measured that?
I have had these scales about a year now, but didn't take the time to weigh the cradle/engine/transmission when I parted out an 88 formula drive train several months back, or the 3800SC/Getrag that I reworked the mounts on. Going forward every swap I get my hands on will be weighed in the same manner to start some comparisons. I think the stock V6 setup would be in the same range (100+) if you measured the chassis, considering the battery at the outer extreme of the engine bay.
Not to get too off topic, but my I'm going to guess I gained 50-75lbs when swapping from 2.8/3T40 to 4.9/4T60e, and most of that weight was gained from the transmission, weighing in at 204lbs. Considering the 4.9 is pretty close to the weight of the 2.8, I'd say my whole cradle drop out would be in the 625-650lb range. I also know the Fiero this power-train is in weighs 2800lbs with this setup.
Guru, love the coil relocate. I have been looking at doing that with my LS3. From the pics it looks like you have the spark plug wires coming out the top, but I would think that having them go out the bottom might look better. Not sure if it was just done for mock up or not. Also, are you going to be running an aftermarket set of fuel rails, or sticking with stock.
Its looking really good, thanks for the update.
Rob
[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 12-27-2011).]
The coils have the coil wires coming out 1 end and the harness connections 180 from them. So I chose to keep the plug wires visible and hide the wiring connectors.
I was planning to stick with the stock fuel lines for now, but may upgrade to something different sometime later.
So I take it that its not going to be fired up before 2012? you know there are only 356 days to drive next year. you know end of the world and what not.
So I take it that its not going to be fired up before 2012? you know there are only 356 days to drive next year. you know end of the world and what not.
Probably not... only so many hrs in the day and I have been busy trying to launch my 13" brake kit and working on some other suspension upgrades fro the 88 as well.
I do have the next 4 days off, so I might make some actual progress on wiring the LS4.
I did end up scoring another LS4 water pump setup from a guy who was parting out his engine.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 12-30-2011).]
If you want another water pump, you could have mine, Im going to be using an electric. I didn't want to worry about pump clearance of that massive unit
have you considered using a fresh water marine pump? that seemed to be the best option for a mechanicle pump when i did mine. i ended up using an electric pump for eas of installation. oddly enough it still works after ten year, but i dont drive it that much anymore.
have you considered using a fresh water marine pump? that seemed to be the best option for a mechanicle pump when i did mine. i ended up using an electric pump for eas of installation. oddly enough it still works after ten year, but i dont drive it that much anymore.
Never looked into a marine pump... have any links?
For my next one (probably a budget 4.8 commuter build), I am going to design & build a custom water pump that will better utilize the space available and simplify the mounting of the alternator and AC
Enjoy the break. 
(Then again, I suppose driving around with only the driver in the car probably has a certain neutralizing effect). I wonder how much the stock V6 drivetrain differs in total and the difference side to side... ever measured that?
you know there are only 356 days to drive next year. you know end of the world and what not.
