Then you might see if Archie know him due to the SBC swap. BTW, the F40 referenced in this thread refers to the G6 6 speed transmission, not to the F40 car/replicas.
Any new updates guru? How is the new shop hunting going?
No new updates. Car is sitting while there is salt on the roads and the house/garage hunt has stalled... have looked at everything currently on the market and now waiting/monitoring any new listings. House in KY will be listed next week and hoping for a quick purchase (when I relocated to KY from IL 8 years ago, it took 6 years to sell...)
Hey Paul, I was wondering how familiar you are with the differences between LS4 heads vs. LS1/3 heads? Specifically, I have been looking for coil pack/valve covers and Eldelbrock has a few options but their tech line said they fit the LS1/3 only. Are the cover mounting studs differnt of the LS4s?
Dr. W.
Valve covers are the same for all LSx engines. LS1 has straight rockers and cathedral intake ports, while LS3 has offset rockers and "square" intake ports. Valve covers and coil brackets are the same on all Gen III/IV LSx/Vortec engines as far as mounting and gaskets go.
Originally posted by dobey: Valve covers are the same for all LSx engines. LS1 has straight rockers and cathedral intake ports, while LS3 has offset rockers and "square" intake ports. Valve covers and coil brackets are the same on all Gen III/IV LSx/Vortec engines as far as mounting and gaskets go.
Not exactly... the 97-98 LS1's used a perimeter bolt pattern and the 99+ LSx versions used the center bolt style.
Also the as cast bosses for mounting the coil brackets have changed within the centerbolt years. I haven't studied them enough to know which ones are the same and which ones are different, but I know there are differences just from seeing used ones for sale on ebay. For example if you look at the bottom valve cover in both pics, the one on the bottom valve cover in the upper picture has a a couple more bolt bosses that the bottom one:
quote
Originally posted by infinitewill: Hey Paul, I was wondering how familiar you are with the differences between LS4 heads vs. LS1/3 heads? Specifically, I have been looking for coil pack/valve covers and Eldelbrock has a few options but their tech line said they fit the LS1/3 only. Are the cover mounting studs differnt of the LS4s?
Dr. W.
Will, are you looking at the cosmetic covers that mount over the coils to hide them? Something like these?
If that is the case, then you probably want to take a close look at the installation manual to see exactly how they mount to the coils/coil brackets. From this picture it would appear that the Edelbrock covers mount using the bosses on the valve covers, and then the coils bolt directly to the edelbrock cover and do not reuse the stock coil brackets.
Since they reuse the coil bracket mounting boss, find pics of both sides and look at them closely with some LS4 valve covers to make sure the bolt bosses are in the same place. If they are, then the edelbrock coil covers should bolt to the LS4 valve covers.
Then the issue is will the LS4 coils bolt to the underside of the edelbrock coil covers designed for the LS3. This coil relocation bracket below is advertized as fitting LS2, LS4, LS3 and LS7 coils - so that should mean the distance between the two mount holes are the same and that the LS4 coils should bolt to the underside of the edelbrock coil covers designed for the LS3 coils. [URL=http://www.ebay.com/itm/LS2-LS3-LS4-LS7-bolt-on-coil-relocation-kit-powder-coat-black-12573190/281291998928?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D28774%26meid%3De0c69a698cbe4d1bbe1b0445384af2c1%26pid%3 D1000]http://www.ebay.com/itm/LS2...84af2c1%26pid%3D1000[/URL] 05%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D111609210005&rt=nc
Just for confirmation, I know the LS2 and LS4 coils are the same and I checked a couple of aftermarket coil mfg and they list the same coil for LS2, LS3 and LS7 applications.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 02-28-2015).]
On another note, my next door neighbor in KY wigged out on Friday and burned his house and barn to the ground before killing himself... I feel for his wife and son, they were one of the few neighbors we spoke with. Seemed like a nice couple and they were kind and helpful neighbors... not sure what exactly set him off.
The kid ran next door to our house, but the girls were at school and my wife had to be gone for the home inspector, potential buyers, and realtor to go through the house. The home inspector was luckily at the house and let the kid inside to warm up (I think he was barefoot and shirtless - and ran across 200' of snow 8" deep to get to our house), and called 911. The home inspector is standing in front of our house for the news interviews.
On another note, my next door neighbor in KY wigged out on Friday and burned his house and barn to the ground before killing himself... I feel for his wife and son, they were one of the few neighbors we spoke with. Seemed like a nice couple and they were kind and helpful neighbors... not sure what exactly set him off.
The kid ran next door to our house, but the girls were at school and my wife had to be gone for the home inspector, potential buyers, and realtor to go through the house. The home inspector was luckily at the house and let the kid inside to warm up (I think he was barefoot and shirtless - and ran across 200' of snow 8" deep to get to our house), and called 911. The home inspector is standing in front of our house for the news interviews.
On another note, my next door neighbor in KY wigged out on Friday and burned his house and barn to the ground before killing himself... I feel for his wife and son, they were one of the few neighbors we spoke with. Seemed like a nice couple and they were kind and helpful neighbors... not sure what exactly set him off.
The wife and oldest girl are all freaked out...
I'm glad to here your family is safe, that's some scary stuff to happen so close to home! What a sad and tragic thing to happen to your neighbors or anyone .
Here is a pic from this morning of the LS4/F40 Fiero taking a winter nap outside of the apt...
I think its been about 3 weeks since it was started and moved last. It won't move again until the snow all around it is melted and the roads have had a chance to shed some of the salt.
The LS4/F40 Fiero is back in daily driver duty and giving the truck a well needed rest. Since Nov, I have put 16K miles on the truck with all the trips between IL and KY.
The house in KY closed on the 31st, so I am free of that property. The wife and girls are moved into furnished temp housing in KY for another 8 weeks as they finish up the school year, then they will join me in IL. Still on the hunt for a good place to buy in IL...
Congrats on closing the house! I'm glad it went (relatively) quickly... or the housing market in Kentucky is just that much better.
Thanks! The housing market in KY for the area we lived was starting to come back pretty good. We purchased the house almost 3 years ago, for what the original buyer paid for it new in 2003. Then 3 years later, we list it, show it twice, have an offer within 7 days (while having worst snow storm in a very long time) that is within $900 of asking price. We ended up selling it for 13K more than we purchased it for, so we did OK.
Hi Paul. Hope the house hunting is going well in IL.
I was looking through your pics to see if I could find this info, but all your pics (and the YouTube video of the ls4 starter fixture) are too small to be able to read the casting number. I'm not sure if you can see the casting number on your block with the engine installed now, but if so, could you get it for me. I'm curious if the casting was changed any for the 2007+ LS4, along with the other changes that were made, so just looking to verify the numbers the same. My 06 block is 12569004.
hi Paul just asking in case: in your LS explorations did you ever look at any other water pump; ie LS2 or LS3 etc, to adapt onto the LS4 engine? I am assuming/hoping I will have more space than in the stock fiero and might be able to consider a different water pump.... IF it will bolt up. Thought I would go to the 'source'! Thanks in advance GP
hi Paul just asking in case: in your LS explorations did you ever look at any other water pump; ie LS2 or LS3 etc, to adapt onto the LS4 engine? I am assuming/hoping I will have more space than in the stock fiero and might be able to consider a different water pump.... IF it will bolt up. Thought I would go to the 'source'! Thanks in advance GP
I have looked at many of the other water pumps. The other LSx car water pumps all have their ports on the wrong side (into the strut tower), and also protrude further from the engine, requiring a longer snout and crank pulley. Many truck pumps would be usable, if it weren't for the fact that they protrude even further from the block than most of the car pumps.
The Gen V LT-1 pump out of the Corvette would be a nice option, but would still require the longer crank and pulley, but unfortunately the Gen V block has slightly different water port alignment that isn't compatible with the Gen III/IV LSx blocks.
An electric pump from Meziere might be usable, if you aren't running a bunch of accessories, and have the clearance on the strut tower side. Tubes could be routed to fit a couple of their block mounted pump options. It's also possible to use a remote mounted water pump, as is done with the LSx swaps using Archie's kit.
Or you could make your own custom water manifold to fit the LS4 and be a better match for the Fiero engine bay.
Here is a pic of the townhouse we are renting for the next year... 1500 sq-ft, 3 br, 2.5 ba, 2 car garage (small), and unfinished basement for storage.
Garage is 26% smaller in sq-ft so I won't be setting everything up, but I have started moving my tools, parts, and manuals. I think there are 34 of those black bins full of stuff. I will be going through them to see what bins will just go down into the basement for longer term storage vs. being put to use in the garage.
I will probably spend the next couple of weeks putting up 2 of my work benches, setting up the equipment layout, and installing a 220V outlet in the garage, but many things will not leave storage until we buy/build our house (like my spare LS4 engines, transmissions, cradle fixture, steal table, fiero body parts, etc).
I did order a head liner for the LS4/F40 car and will likely be swapping the interior out with better stock stuff. Also purchased a cruise unit to install (crosses fingers it works, or it will be $350 paperweight!). I have been driving the Fiero 95+ miles daily with most of it on the interstate, so cruise would be very nice.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 07-23-2015).]
The wife and girls went to Chicago, so for the first time in months I had an opportunity to do something productive in the garage. Sure its just busy work getting things setup, but I actually feel like I have accomplished something!
Like I previously mentioned, the shop is too small for all my benches and machines, but I was able to find room for both lathes, the drill press, band saw, belt sander, my main tool box, and two wooden work benches, and started putting up shelves. I spent most of the afternoon working on the new bench extension so the lathe doesn't take up too much room on the bench, and so I still have room on that side to get around the Fiero. Garage is still a total disaster...
The back wall over this bench will have my tool peg board (when I get it rebuilt):
Equipment central, but they are narrow enough for the wife to have plenty of room to park and walk around the Murano.
This side of the garage has about 4 feet between the wall and the edge of the door, so there is room for another bench (more shelving will be above it) and the air compressor.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 08-01-2015).]
The garage is starting to take shape with most things where they need to be (at least the things that are going to be "in" the garage). I still need to add some more lights, a 220V outlet for the air compressor, and probably take the cherry picker back to storage until it is needed again.
One of the boxes along the left wall is a Fiero Store headliner that will be one of my first projects with the Fiero. Along with adding cruise, swapping to power windows, and replacing some of the interior with nicer stock stuff... nothing real major.
It's amusing that your skills and experience in working on Fieros is so profound that adding cruise (to an engine swapped platform, I assume?) isn't anything major.
Have you thought about going that extra-step and doing the adaptive cruise control?
Things are looking pretty nice! I wish my garage was that organized!
Originally posted by Trinten: Have you thought about going that extra-step and doing the adaptive cruise control?
Things are looking pretty nice! I wish my garage was that organized!
Adaptive cruise control isn't on the list, just a basic setup that will maintain a constant speed. I can still slow down to avoid hitting the car in front while waiting for room in the next lane to pass. I guess its easy to have an organized garage when 1/2 the stuff isn't in it! One of these days I might post a pic of all the stuff that is still in my 10 x 40 storage unit.
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Originally posted by dobey: Are you planning to add in a BCM to enable cruise? Or are you going to try to use the TBSS configuration and wire cruise directly in the ECM?
I was able to get a few hours in the garage this weekend, so I pulled the car in and yanked out the console, instrument cluster and dash to do some work.
My ABS headliner from Fiero Store is also here, but I need all to pull all the rest of the trim panels out of storage before I mess with it. I did pick up some peal & seal to cover the top side with to help cut down on plastic squeaks. I am planning to install it w/o any foam/fabric and just the plastic textured surface.
First order of business, was the instrument cluster. The ground circuit is weak in the plastic circuit, so everything works until you turn on the back lighting, then you lose the tach and fuel level, and a couple other interesting things happen. All my spare clusters are buried in storage, so I figured I would run some additional ground wires soldered to the metal terminal plates to help support the ground load. Then these wires will be grounded to one of the bolts on the steering column.
I am working towards a cruise solution through 2 separate methods.
METHOD 1: a $350 module that plugs into the pedal, OBD2 port, and wire up 1 switched power wire. It intercepts the pedal voltage back to the ECM and adjusts the voltage signal to speed the car up/down. It gets the brake signal and VSS input through the OBD2 port (GM LAN) and includes the control knob for all the cruise function. Its super simple to hook up, but I am still in the debug process with the vendor. Per their troubleshooting manual, all 4 pedal wires at the controller should be 4V and mine are 2V and 5V. They normally use the TBSS pedal and it is one number different. With this module hooked up, the car immediately goes into limp mode and it kills function to the pedal. The vendor is debugging this on their end. I sent them resistance readings on my pedal at fully released and WOT and a copy of my tune so they could look for differences in it... If they don't get something figured out soon, I will likely return it.
METHOD 2. AR Digital cruise module like used is many 3800 swaps. The only signal it needs from the ECM is the 4000ppm and I am already using the 4000 ppm output from the E67 to drive my speedo (and the 88 Speedo has a 4000 PPM output too). The rest of the wiring is pretty basic, especially since it will be mounted in the passenger compartment. The AR cruise module uses a cable to pull the throttle blade open, but I don't have any throttle bracket on the TB (and the ecm probably wouldn't like seeing it move w/o matching movement from the pedal). So I want to use this cable to actuate the pedal for cruise. When the car needs to speed up, the pedal needs to be pressed, to slow down, it needs to be released.
So fab time... My garage doesn't have a 220V outlet, plus my welder is at my brothers 45 miles away and I haven't got setup for welding gas bottle here... So I used a 10% off coupon and purchased a ProMig 140 from Lowes. It is the baby brother to my other welder (ProMig 175), but it will get the job done... even with flux core wire.
The cruise module pulls the cable to speed up, so I needed a bracket that would pull the pedal towards the floor. So I fabbed up an extension to the top of the pedal and a cable mounting bracket that comes off the stock 2 bolts for mounting the stock fiero gas pedal. There is slack built into the bracket as you can see here with the pedal fully released.
Here is a video of the motion of the cable as the pedal is cycled from fully released to WOT and back a few times.
Mounted in the car:
Routing of the cruise control cable:
General placement of the AR Cruise Module:
If I can find a shorter cable, I might try to mount it in the center console in front of the shifter:
The main concern I have about the AR Cruise Module method, and the reason the level arm is quite long is the gain... cable movement vs. delta in speed. It needs to barely move the pedal to get a response (2800 lb car, 90mm tb, and non-linear movement between pedal and throttle body). That is why I made a 2nd lower mounting hole if I need to speed it up. If need be, I can also re-calibrate the pedal % pressed to TB % open in the 70-80 MPH cruise range to help dial it in.
Not much is going to happen for the next few days. I will be traveling to NYC on Tues, returning on Wed. Next weekend I have a company picnic to attend, but may be able to get some stuff done.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 08-16-2015).]
If so I think It looks promising, if they can resolve the technical issues your experiencing.
I didn't buy the module from Dakota Digital, but mine is very similar (same control box minus the artwork), but with a different button pod. I will try and get some pics this evening.
Interesting. Not what I'd do, but interesting. I tend to be skeptical of things that require plugging into or tapping the data wires, for the OBD-II ALDL port to work. And for the reasons you already mentioned, I don't think I'd pursue using a cable driven cruise control (a cable connected to the gas pedal is how the cruise in the mid-90s Hondas works though, but they don't have DBW).
With an e67 ECM, I'd probably try to do the TBSS style and wire the stalk controls to the ECM. Not sure how I'm going to solve cruise on my build with the e38 ECM yet though.
I temporarily installed the cluster again to verify the new ground wires fixed the issues, and I am happy to report they did!
I also was able to layer the inside of the head liner and interior panels with peal & seal from Lowes:
Also, added a layer of sound deadening material (like I use in engine bays) to the recessed hole where the sun roof would go it this car still had one. I am hoping that all this work helps reduce the wind noise and makes the interior quieter.
Headliner back in, but I am waiting on new clips from Fiero Store to install the A & B pillar trim and some new sunvisors (all of my spare ones are buried somewhere...)
Not much progress on the cruise front. Here is a pick of the plug & play unit (very similar to the Dakota Digital one):
The guy who was supposed to look at my tune for options for the GM LAN cruise module, didn't get around to it this week and is on vacation next week. On the AR Module front, I am hoping to find time to work on the harness and relays this coming week. If I can get that done some evening after work, then I might be able to install/test it next weekend.
As with anytime I pull this car apart, project scope creep sets in. While I have the dash out, I might as well install the harness for power windows, power window doors, new/faster power window motors, and slightly better carpet... I will likely still drive the car w/o dash since the instrument cluster is back installed... Now that I have the interior parts about done, I can take the other spares back to storage and pick up the doors.
Wow - I've been "absent" for a few months. Got the bug to work on my LS4 swap so first things first - catch up on Guru's thread. Very glad to see that you have a temp place to do the Fiero thing. Hope all is well with you and your family......
