I just got a Corvette ZR1 power steering rack and am planning on putting it into my next power steering equipt Fiero. So far it looks like a good choice. Almost the same travel as the Fiero. The Fiero has 5" of travel and the ZR1 rack has about .5" less. With wide tires this means nothing. And the ZR1 has 2 turns lock to lock were the Fiero is almost 3.5 turns lock to lock. The ZR1 rack moves 2.25" per turn of the steering wheel and the Fiero rack gear moves 1.5" per turn of the steering wheel. To put it in other words the ZR1 rack is like a GO CART the steering ratio is VERRRRRRY FAST. Has anyone done a Vette rack? I think I saw Rockcrawl do it before?
The 84-94 Vette racks are basicaly the same. the ZR1 or "sport" rack has 2 turns lock to lock. The rest have 2.5 turns lock to lock.
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[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-03-2006).]
If the ZR1 rack looks that close, does that mean all C4 racks are gonna be just as good (maybe slower ratio, but the same dimensions and travel, etc.)
Looking forward to seeing this. I'm seriously considering power steering on my Formula.
I don't know about the other Vette racks? I never got into the part numbers or when any changes were made between them. But I will do that because I wont put a ZR1 rack into every Fiero I drive. That FAST ratio might be kinda fast for a daily driver. After I get this into a car and get it working I will buy several more Vette racks. As it looks right now I wont need to cut into the spare tire tub to clear the hydraulic lines. It looks like they will fit under the stock tire tub and allow for a spare tire to fit. One of the draw backs of the "F" body rack is that you cant fit a spare tire into the tire tub because of the placement of the hydraulic in put and out put lines. The mounting points of the Vette rack are a breeze but the rack extension adapters are more complex. Take the good with the bad I guess?
I believe all Z51 equiped C4's will have the 2.0 ratio rack.
My 86 was a non-Z51 car, but had been upgraded with the 2.0 rack. Biggest issue is the turn signals may not cancel around turns due to the steering wheel not being turned enough. You might be able to swap the turn signal assy from a Z51 car to fix this though.
Make sure it is a front steer or turning the wheel left will make the car go right. We looked at Corvette racks when we did that steering rack R&D and I don't remember any Corvette racks look promising. Thay may not have had a C5 rack at that time.
Make sure it is a front steer or turning the wheel left will make the car go right. We looked at Corvette racks when we did that steering rack R&D and I don't remember any Corvette racks look promising. Thay may not have had a C5 rack at that time.
All of the Vette racks are front steer. In fact the Vette rack looks like a cross breed between a Fiero rack and a Chevette rack. with a few other changes. I only needed to make a new mount on the driver side. The pass side I used the stock Fiero mount. I used the Fiero rubber mount from the pass side and slid it onto the hydraulic cylinder of the Vette rack and was able to bolt it down with only a slight mod to the rubber mount. The Hydraulic lines come out of the cylinder straight up, so a front mount battery will be tight. The input shaft is the same as the Fiero and seems to be oriented the same direction as the Fiero, so there may be no need to index the steering wheel after installation.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 01-06-2006).]
There, it's been said, no further such posts accepted.
Crap, Rick. You're making my install obsolete before its started.
Need a test bed?
Neil
I am always on the lookout for a better rack for the Fiero Infact the best rack seems to be the Fiero rack with the power steering "stuff" from other racks to convert the Fiero rack over to power steering. BUT the problem is that none of the GM rack other than the Chevette rack has the same input shaft angle. So a custom rack and pinion will need to be machined $$$$$. So I keep looking for a conversion. I could use the Cylinder from the chevette and the steering spool from the Chevette and put them on a Fiero rack and convert the Fiero rack to Power assist, but it would still have a weak ratio.
So when you go to a quicker ratio, wouldn't this mean the already twitchy steering will get even twitchier? (is that a word?)
Gonna need to be hyped up on something to keep you on the road at high(er) speeds... Am I right?
btw- ZR1, sounds expensive.
I love the "F" body ratio. I never thaught it was too fast or twitchy. So a slightly faster ratio may put it over the edge? or maybe not? But it is worth a try because the standard Vette racks could be used in place of the ZR1 rack if the ratio is too fast.
So when you go to a quicker ratio, wouldn't this mean the already twitchy steering will get even twitchier?
Maybe, but Fiero steering shouldn't be twitchy in the first place. That 3.5 turns lock to lock doesn't qualify as twitchy in my book anyway. I preferred driving the f-body with its 2.2 turns LTL.
And no a stock Fiero doesn't need power steering but a lot of us are running tires one, two, three (and more) plus sizes bigger than stock.
Originally posted by jscott1: Maybe, but Fiero steering shouldn't be twitchy in the first place. That 3.5 turns lock to lock doesn't qualify as twitchy in my book anyway.
I believe the ZR1 rack was a ZR1 only item. Could be the amount of assist inside. I'll try to remember to check some part numbers since I have the ZR1 and later part numbers on CD.
Didn't go to well, looks like GM doesn't sell the entire units and I'm missing the gear application charts. Looks like there may have been an early and late '89 car. Late '89 thru 90 have the same number for the steering gear. 91/92 has another. I have no number for later gears. As far as remanufactured Delco gear kits, again the show 2 different 89 cars. Looks like late 89 thru 96 uses kit 26044839 (Delco number is 369090) I would assume the reman/Delco is most of the unit. Numbers may be superceded by now. Best I could do.
I believe the ZR1 rack was a ZR1 only item. Could be the amount of assist inside. I'll try to remember to check some part numbers since I have the ZR1 and later part numbers on CD.
I don't know much about the Vette racks, this is the only one I have seen up close but one strange thing about this rack is that it has the small diameter hydraulic cylinder like the Chevette and 88 Fiero (the black still part of an 88 rack is an unfinished hydraulic cylinder) but I have seen smaller GM cars us the larger Hydraulic cylinders than this Vette rack. So if the other Vette racks use the larger cylinder they will have less effort to steer than this rack. Thus this rack would have more "Road Feel"
With only access to 56k I finally gave up on the internet, but today I finally got to check out this thread being that Im back home. Is this planned to be placed into the black GT?
Drop me a call tomarrow and lets see if we can't get togeather for lunch / dinner. I think that I hear the BOCK calling.
I hear that people hate the stock 88 rack, but I like it just fine, but I like the pre-88's better. Overall I think they serve their duty, I am 135lbs and can get in and out of parking spots really easy, who needs power steering?
Can the autoX guys really see much of an improvement from a Vette rack?
I hear that people hate the stock 88 rack, but I like it just fine, but I like the pre-88's better. Overall I think they serve their duty, I am 135lbs and can get in and out of parking spots really easy, who needs power steering?
Can the autoX guys really see much of an improvement from a Vette rack?
You are either joking or misinformed? I have never heard anyone say they hate the 88 Fiero rack? Even I think the 88 steering is a good step up from the 84-87 Fiero's. And that the 88 is fine without power steering. BUT if the tires are larger the steering in an 88 can get heavy too, so some may just want an extra boost for the larger tires. I just want faster ratio steering. So the ONLY way to get faster ratio without adding more effort to the steering wheel is to do a power steering rack with a faster ratio.
I have said that I drove an 87 GT for years and HATE the slow ratio steering an heavy feel of the manual Fiero rack in the pre88's. No such thing as "road feel" in the pre88 Fiero, just a slow ratio rack that is hard to turn at walking speed. The power steering I put in my 88 Fiero feels VERY stock and the "road feel" is just fine.
"Who needs power steering?" Let me ask you this."Have you ever driven a Fiero with close ratio power steering?" I can tell that you never have or you would not even ask "who needs power steering?" People want ALL KINDS of mods on the cars they drive, why is it strange that people want power steering? Who needs 12" subs in a Fiero? Who needs a V8? Who needs new paint? I "need" power steering because I want FAST ratio steering (2.25 turns lock to lock) without extra effort. Others can answer your question with the reason that fits their needs.
Can AutoXers benefit from FAST ratio steering? Hmmm YES. First it is ALLLLLLOT less work for the driver to get around and second it does not take any HP or TQ from the engine. The only time the pump needs to make pressure is wen the car is turning. This is RARELY at a time when full throttle is used. The parasitic loss of the pump is null and void.
I hear that people hate the stock 88 rack, but I like it just fine, but I like the pre-88's better. Overall I think they serve their duty, I am 135lbs and can get in and out of parking spots really easy, who needs power steering?
He who is apparently 135 pounds, and likes the 3+ lock to lock ratio of the stock Fiero dosent.
I take it that you have got to have stock rims / tires on your Fiero. Take a set of very large aftermarket rims, ie: 17x8's w/ a 35mm offset on an 88’s for example, and see if you still think that the stock "feel" serves it's purpose. I'd bet a Super Sized Double Bacon Cheeseburger from Carl’s Jr. that you'd defer to not...
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Originally posted by darkhorizon: Can the autoX guys really see much of an improvement from a Vette rack?
Nope - there's no improvement; Until it's installed into their Fiero anyhow.
Have you been to / participated in any Auto X event? With a 3+ lock to lock you’re going to be spinning a lot of steering wheel around vs the guy that has a 2.o lock to lock ratio who is also sipping on his bourbon while cruzing through the cones while compared to the guy w/ the stock setup.
[This message has been edited by mcaanda (edited 01-20-2006).]
it the vette steering rack the same length? it appears to be shorter, however i have never had a fiero rack apart, so i dont know for sure where everything ends/begins under those dust boots....
Yes the Vette rack is short, so is the "F" Body rack. It is about 5" shorter. That is what the adapters are for. They move the tie rods out to the stock Fiero location.
GOOD NEWS the rack fits in and the spare tire tub fits over it without any cutting for the hydro lines. I even have the room for a front relocation battery kit.
This vew hs hard to understand, but it is of the steering spool looking from the grond up into the hole that the steering shaft goes thru into the car. You can see that the hydro lines wont get in the way of anything.
the f body rack is only ~1.5 inches shorter than the fiero rack, so that's about 3/4 per side. and the vette rack is about 2.5 shorter per side. just wondering what your doing for the bellows ( tie rod boots) if your making adapters to locate the tie rods in the original locations, just curious if the vette boots will extend an extra 2.5"
the f body rack is only ~1.5 inches shorter than the Fiero rack, so that's about 3/4 per side. and the vette rack is about 2.5 shorter per side. just wondering what your doing for the bellows ( tie rod boots) if your making adapters to locate the tie rods in the original locations, just curious if the vette boots will extend an extra 2.5"
I don't remember off hand exactly how much shorter the Vette rack is than the Fiero, but the extensions for the "F" body and Vette are off set towards the driver side. The "F" body extensions are something like .35" on the driver side and the pass side is 1.15" So if the Vette rack is 5" short then the driver side extension will be 1.5" and the pass side will be 3.5". So the dust boot on the driver side will be OK with the extra travel. The pass side will have a hard dust cover to extend the boot out 3". That way the dust boots will be OK. Also the small end of the boot does not need to clamp in the stock location. That gives you about an extra inch.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 01-22-2006).]
the steering ratio is VERRRRRRY FAST.
no pics, yet.
Infact the best rack seems to be the Fiero rack with the power steering "stuff" from other racks to convert the Fiero rack over to power steering. BUT the problem is that none of the GM rack other than the Chevette rack has the same input shaft angle. So a custom rack and pinion will need to be machined $$$$$. So I keep looking for a conversion. I could use the Cylinder from the chevette and the steering spool from the Chevette and put them on a Fiero rack and convert the Fiero rack to Power assist, but it would still have a weak ratio.
