Ok, so here is the beginning of a few months (hopefully less) of destroyed knuckles and dirty hands.
I found a rust free '88 coupe here in the Spokane area, '88 coupe with Iron Lung, and a slushbox on it. Came with AC, power windows, locks. No sunroof panel, so I'll swap the one off my parts car. I drove the car around for a few weeks and although it had NO real power to speak of, this is my first '88 so I am in awe of how nicely they ride. This, despite the fact that all the ball-joints are original, and the bushings look like they went up against Chuck Norris' blender.
Without further ado, let's get some pictures rolling!
Cleaning interior out, put on blocks for prep.
Tony Kania came over to help -- He disconnected the engine and transmission lines while I tore down the front suspension. Thanks Tony!
No real rust to speak of, surface stuff here or there, but the bolts all came out without incident except the front brake hose flare bolts. I'll have to cut and re-flare.
Some interior shots, notice how "clean" this car is.. I've never seen one before that didn't at least have rust on the hoor handle mounts.
So, I pre-loosened all the cradle bolts, and disconnected the parking brake cable (MAN, I love how they did it on the '88, under the front cradle crossmember!). Then, Joe (aka Fieroking) showed me his fool-proof method of rigging up to lift a fiero. It basically involves removing rear bumper cover, and bumper mount, and wrapping a strap around frame rails. Not only does this prevent the car from moving around a lot, but it doesn't roll on axis when lifted, and it leaves you enough room to slide dollies under the cradle.
Here's me, suggesting we hit it with a bigger stick. My oldest son Max was so stoked that he got to lift up a whole car. Greg's son Tyler was there helping and learning as he's now 16 and about to begin work on his fiero. That's Joe jockeying the dollies around until they were just right.
Once we got the car resting on the dollies, I got down there to finish removing the cradle bolts. This particular one caused me extreme grief because no matter how we jockeyed the car around, there was still a little weight on it, so I ended up just backing it ALL the way out with a wrench. By the end, I was laying on the ground and my arm was cramping something fierce. I'm an IT admin by trade, not used to all this REAL work...
While I was wedged under there, Joe decided to throw small things down at me and wiggle the duke to scare me. This was my first 2.5, and I thought it was rather ghetto that it only had 2 mounts + a dog bone to hold it up. It was SO sloppy in there..
One last check before lifting the car off, pulled the power, grounds, and the harness through.
Liftoff! Notice my apparent "I am Sparta!" nose covering. I'm pretty sure Greg did that on purpose to keep my camera from melting.
Oops, forgot a hose. Nobody pay attention to that one, it's not important.
Ok, all clear, time to push!! wiggled around to clear the brake line, and the legs of the crane:
Woohoo! All clear! I think I'm doubled over in pain here, but don't remember. By this time, I'd sniffed too much brake fluid, antifreeze, and spent the whole day in the super-hot sun. After this, we set some blocks under where the cradle mounts in the rear. (Don't stare at my ass, and remember kids, say no to crack)
Ugh, cleanup begins. No rust except the battery tray (still not much). At least I can get rid of all that disgusting fiberglass crapola.
Obligatory standing in the engine bay shot: Note, car owner is more than slightly unhinged by now. This, and there is a HUGE thunderstorm rolling in.. Time to put away tools, and cover stuff..
More later! Thank you so much to Joe (Fieroking), Tony Kania, Greg (lilrdfiero), Tyler, and my wife for allowing me another project (although I'm sure it was a brief moment of weakness, and I'll pay for it later).
And the sun set on the first day..
[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-22-2009).]
It's looking good! I'm in the middle of mounting the 3800 w/getrag 5 spd to the cradle and am having some problems. Here's to a problem-free installation! *holds up beer*
Yeah, I ran into a snag too.. Anybody know the best way to put poly on the front upper a-arms on an '88? That pin won't come out with the sleeves still in there, and I need the sleeves for the poly..
I burned as much rubber out as I could, and I guess I'll just have to scrape it out with the pin in there.
I have PR's 3800 engine mount and getting the cradle modified is being more of a pain than I expected. I can't seem to get the tranny mounts lined up and without those laying flat I can't properly mark a hole to drill for the engine mount. It's just a typical day in my life though, nothing goes to plan
Is there a chance you have his automatic mounts (if there's a difference)? I'm going to probably end up with an isuzu tranny, as I want the long freeway gear and will probably keep the motor NA.
Bump for night crew: Anybody installed poly on the front uppers on an '88? anyway to get the pin out without removing the bushing sleeves? If not, I'll just get them powder coated together.
Nice work Aaron and other INW Fiero guys!! You weren't kidding were you...you will have this bad boy ready for Richland. BTW, if you are interested in some really nice seats give me a call. They are the 2005 Cavalier ones I just pulled. Mint condition... They bolt right in! Super Huge Special One Time Discount to INW members trying to get cars ready for the 7th!! Even bigger discount to you Aaron!!!!!
Nice work Aaron and other INW Fiero guys!! You weren't kidding were you...you will have this bad boy ready for Richland. BTW, if you are interested in some really nice seats give me a call. They are the 2005 Cavalier ones I just pulled. Mint condition... They bolt right in! Super Huge Special One Time Discount to INW members trying to get cars ready for the 7th!! Even bigger discount to you Aaron!!!!!
Jeff
509-747-4826
You da man! I'll call tomorrow!
Tomorrow is officially the day the "fun" starts, all my poly, springs, KYB's, SS brake lines, ball joints, tie rods, calipers and brakes show up. I also need to get the A-arms and rear arms ready to had off to Joe to get powder coated.. I don't think I will be quite ready for richland, but it'll be close.
[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-13-2009).]
Maybe you will be done in time for Fierofest. Wouldn't that be nice? I will tell you all that Aaron's 88 really does not have any rust. Definately makes dismanteling a lot easier.
No thanks needed there buddy. Just nice to meet your family. You are one lucky man. The kids love you. The wife loves you. And you get to pull off projects like this one. Guess that I have it good also.
How do you know when you shop at Harbor Freight too much? When your significant other recognizes where you bought your engine lift by the paint!
Call me when you need any more help. Also, let me know when you plan on getting Joe's engine. Me gots a pick-em-up truck.
Nice work Aaron! Did I get you motivated a couple weeks ago?
Mine took 4 months to finish, if you can get yours done by Aug 7th I'll make you a special award for the fastest 3800 engine swap in the northwest!
Let me know if you run into any engine related questions, hopefully I can answer them for you...
Why yes, yes you did. I figure if you guys in Boise can do it.... :P
In all honesty though, I wouldn't have even tried this project without the resources available here on the Forum. Tonight will be a busy night, I'm going to finish gutting the rear links and front arms, and hand them off to Joe tomorrow hopefully, I hope his powder coat guy can do the spindles too..
Looks like I'll have to mount my bench vise on the bench. This swap would have been easier had my garage been cleaned out, but we just moved into the house not too long ago, and this place is a bit smaller than the last, so there's stuff still crammed in the garage. (like a parts car.. sigh)
My giant order from the fiero store showed up, containing lowering springs, ball joints, tie rods, poly all around, kyb's, strut plates, and stainless brake lines. They were kind enough to give me the PFF credit after the fact (I forgot about it when ordering).
Well, last night I tore into the cradle, removed the knuckles, lateral arms, and trailing arms, and burned the rubber out. I think that smell will haunt me for quite a while..
Also, since nobody has a trick for removing the giant mounting "pins" from the front uppers, I just removed all the rubber, and will send them off to be powder coated as-is. When I was removing the front ball-joints, I noticed that the uppers had never been changed, so I had to grind off the rivets. Also, the lowers weren't help in by the retaining clips (although they were tight in there..). Is that factory?
At 8:45PM, I broke my T-55 driver, and had to resort to sears for a new one, too bad they only sell that size in a pack of 4 (big torx sizes) for $39.99. Holy crap, no wonder the store was empty.
So, THANKFULLY, all bolts played nice and came right off. With any luck, by tonight I will have the cradle free, and hand all the stuff off to joe for powdercoating.
BTW... I have a free day this weekend... either Saturday or Sunday.... If you need a hand let me know... I follow directions well and clean up nice... LOL
Be glad to come over to help...and I can bring the seats!!
I'm actually thinking about running my motor on rubber mounts: The factory trans mounts should work, I'm just not sure on the motor mounts. What did you use for mounts? I can't remember when I saw your car.. Did you get Purple Reign's mounts, or use rubber?
Joe was mentioning that I can use the dodge truck mounts for the engine mount.. I guess I'll have to get the motor here and just look at it..
Ok, so the local parts store is trying to kill me, softly. 2 weeks ago I ordered reman calipers all around, and rotors/pads. He looked them up in the computer and told me they had enough at the warehouse, and they'd be in in a week. I paid him a deposit, and called in a week. "Nope, still not here, I'll call and ask where they are..."
A week after that, "Nope, still not here, I'll call and ask where they are.." Well, he called me today, and said that Wagner would only send the whole order to him, and they were waiting on the shipments to arrive from all over the country, and apparently I ordered the very last 2 rear '88 calipers in the country. *sigh* I try to do the nice thing and support a local business instead of a national chain and it makes me cry. I told him I would have to have them in hand by next Wed. or I wanted my deposit back. Then I went and tried to find some elsewhere, holy crapola, these are HARD to find! So.. I'm waiting ... waiting..
Meanwhile, I ordered my flywheel. Got the '97 camaro 3800 flywheel, and good lord is it heavy. Good thing I'm shaving 6 lbs off.. There are a few balancing drill marks in the front that will change a bit with the machining, just hoping the few grams won't matter too much. The bulk of the balancing weight is in the non-clutch-surface of the flywheel that won't be machined, so here's crossing my fingers.
For those of you who have done this before, with a NA motor, I shouldn't need to have it rebalanced, right? I figure the 3800 in the camaro is an NA motor like the 3800 series II I'm using..
My giant order from the fiero store showed up, containing lowering springs, ball joints, tie rods, poly all around, kyb's, strut plates, and stainless brake lines. They were kind enough to give me the PFF credit after the fact (I forgot about it when ordering).
Well, last night I tore into the cradle, removed the knuckles, lateral arms, and trailing arms, and burned the rubber out. I think that smell will haunt me for quite a while..
Also, since nobody has a trick for removing the giant mounting "pins" from the front uppers, I just removed all the rubber, and will send them off to be powder coated as-is. When I was removing the front ball-joints, I noticed that the uppers had never been changed, so I had to grind off the rivets. Also, the lowers weren't help in by the retaining clips (although they were tight in there..). Is that factory?
At 8:45PM, I broke my T-55 driver, and had to resort to sears for a new one, too bad they only sell that size in a pack of 4 (big torx sizes) for $39.99. Holy crap, no wonder the store was empty.
So, THANKFULLY, all bolts played nice and came right off. With any luck, by tonight I will have the cradle free, and hand all the stuff off to joe for powdercoating.
You coulda saved so much money on everything buying elsewhere and have gotten better tie rods and ball joints from Rodney plus more with the extra cash
The Fiero Store is a great resource and they are a good place, but not cheap for the stuff you bought
aaron - I took my flexplate in with my flywheel to the local machine shop and they did end up modifying the flywheel by drilling out some material on the crank side of the flywheel.
I'm actually thinking about running my motor on rubber mounts: The factory trans mounts should work, I'm just not sure on the motor mounts. What did you use for mounts? I can't remember when I saw your car.. Did you get Purple Reign's mounts, or use rubber?
Joe was mentioning that I can use the dodge truck mounts for the engine mount.. I guess I'll have to get the motor here and just look at it..
I used Purple Reign's poly mounts all around for my swap. If you want to use the factory tranny mounts I think he'll sell you just the 3800 adaptor for the factory engine mount. I've never looked at an 88 cradle so I'm not sure if there are any differences in motor mounts there but he should be able to tell you.
Here's a shot of my engine mount on the cradle, maybe it will give you something to compare to:
I'm actually thinking about running my motor on rubber mounts: The factory trans mounts should work, I'm just not sure on the motor mounts. What did you use for mounts? I can't remember when I saw your car.. Did you get Purple Reign's mounts, or use rubber?
Joe was mentioning that I can use the dodge truck mounts for the engine mount.. I guess I'll have to get the motor here and just look at it..
You can use a stock 88 mount, or even an earlier rubber one and redrill the mount on the cradle(better option IMO since they are much cheaper and readily available)
Just make sure you get the right adapter for whatever mount you go with
I don't know how a single engine mount and dogbone works though, if that's what you're doing
I put an additional mount on the rear beam of the cradle and use a dogbone, all rubber
You coulda saved so much money on everything buying elsewhere and have gotten better tie rods and ball joints from Rodney plus more with the extra cash
The Fiero Store is a great resource and they are a good place, but not cheap for the stuff you bought
Actually, they were pretty cheap.. Figure in the "kit" discounts which bring prices in line with others, plus a 10% discount for the forum, and it worked out pretty darn well. Not only that but I've NEVER have a part problem from the fiero store. I wanted everything to show up quick, and in one box. There are things that I will definitely price around, like clutch, and brakes, because the fiero store's markup is really high on those (didn't used to be), but for the most part, I don't paying a little more for peace of mind.
That being said, I know that rodney has great parts, I ordered and received Stu's wipes which are AMAZING, and I'll always give first nod to forum vendors, but calling 20 places to make one order isn't my idea of fun. I spent maybe $30 more getting everything in one place = good in my book.
Pulled the motor off the cradle to prep cradle for 3800.
Notice how many people say you can do the TCC solenoid in the car? I think that must be a 84-87 thing, because the '88 duke is only on 2 mounts, on either side of the cradle. There is a large metal plate that covers the valve body on the transmission, and I don't think you'd want to unbolt that while in the car...
I was at Joe's last night, BS'ing about ways to mount the 3800 on the cradle, and I saw the 3800 mount sitting there: Say, that 3800 mount looks a LOT like the 88 mount.. There's no way it could fit, could it?
So, I unbolted the 3800 rubber from the 3800 mount and sat it on the duke's mount. No freaking way. I really hope this would work..
I didn't bolt it down, so it's not sitting level, but this means I might be able to just order new stock mounts, and be done with it. Even if I have to slot them somewhere, that still makes this a much easier swap than I originally thought. I know I'll have to rig up a dogbone if I use the rubber mounts, but that will make this a quiet, smooth machine.
More later, I have to scrape the goo off the cradle and get it to Joe's for powder coating along with the rest of the knuckles, control arms and rear links.
[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-18-2009).]
Tackled and removed all that nasty (oh my, that stuff is disgusting) fiberglass insulation from the engine compartment. Thankfully, there is almost no rust except the battery tray.
Firewall:
Battery tray area:
Back trunk wall:
Passenger side of trunk:
Driver's side trunk (ignore water, just got done rinsing leaves out from engine bay). Looks like PO used silicone to hold up carpeting:
Bottom of trunk, I thought this was rust at first, but it's actually some kind of sticky goo to protect that bottom piece: That's all for now, more later.
As a follow up, if you notice the floor of the trunk, it looks like the PO tried to jack the car up by the trunk floor. It was dimpled in about 5 inches.. I just hopped in the trunk and jumped on the high spots with my boot heel-- All better!
Well, Joe dropped off my suspension, knuckles, cradle, and engine mount today for powder coating. There's a place near where he lives that does big jobs, and they throw our stuff in when it's convenient for cheap..
So, by the end of the week, my stuff will be gunmetal gray with silver flecks. (color they happened to be doing, which is FINE BY ME at the price.. )
[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-20-2009).]
88's are very cool. My first 88' was purchased for recently $400 with a bad engine and I'm glad I got it. I did the caddy v8 conversion on a 5spd. Great combo with the 88' suspension for a daily driver. Keep the progress coming, car looks really clean. I've always been partial to the clean look of the 87-88' nothies. They look lean and clean.
[This message has been edited by Dan_Seattle (edited 07-20-2009).]
Yeah, I'm just sad it won't be done to drive down to NW fiero fest this year.. Oh well, that'll give me a whole year to make it competitive with you Seattle-guys' cars.
I'll still be there this year, just driving a taurus. I think that could get me killed.. hehe.
Wife called, said that the man in brown just dropped off 4 huge things.. WHEELS/TIRES!!!
Crap, 3 more hours of work.. Also, my suspension is at powder coating, so I can't even mount them for a while. I can however, stare at them for long periods of time, and make my family hear about them repeatedly. I'll post pics when I get home (which seems like a LONG time from now.
Well, managed to sneak some time yesterday after it cooled down a bit (was hovering around 100 all day) and took off a few panels to prep for future paint, and replace the broken ones from the parts car.
Tore apart the struts to get the spring perches off, and opened the KYB GR-2's and Fiero Store 1" lowering springs.
All I can say is air tools are your friend when it comes to getting off strut nuts...
Upon re-assembly, those stupid concave washer plates on top were preventing me from getting my wrench on there well, so I used a grade 8 washer instead.. Anybody see a problem with doing it this way? I sure hope not, as it made it WAY easier to reassemble...
Original washer thingy vs. what I used:
Completed strut assemblies:
The great thing about lowering springs is that you don't need spring compressors to re-assemble. In fact, I'm wondering what the spring rate is of the fiero store lowering springs, as they were about 1.5" shorter than the originals, so there was a good 1/2" gap between the spring and strut plate before I tightened down the nut.
Tomorrow's an exciting day, my control arms, spindles, cradle, and engine mount are coming home from powder coating, and all of us Spokane fiero people are making a morning Pull & Save run.
Very nice my friend! Those will help set it off just right.
Oh well, that'll give me a whole year to make it competitive with you Seattle-guys' cars. 
