I had some gauges laying around for a while and I decided they'd look nice in the Fiero. So I made some plates in order to house them. I used aluminum but in retrospect I think brushed stainless steel might look nicer.
I didn't like how low the speedo and tach sat in the housing. So I raised them up a bit.
[This message has been edited by Lunatic (edited 08-03-2014).]
In this segment, I'll take you through the steps of installing a T-Top roof in the Fiero. Don't mind the mess in the garage, it's not usually like this!
Here's a few notes before we begin. -This is not an official "how-to-by-the-book" manual but rather my version of doing a T-Top conversion. -I will use RTV black silicone, PL Premium bonding adhesive, seam sealer and 1/4" rivets to secure it all together. -I picked up an 87 space frame (Thanks Adam) that had the T-Top option. Therefore, I will be reusing all of the components from that car.
Anyhow,on to the show.
Here's the unsuspecting donor. I just cut the roof off at the "A" and "B" pillars after removing the glass.
After removal, you'll have to separate the components.
Take your measurements. Note: This cut is actually curved!
Cut the roof off the recipient.
Do a test fit.
Paint the freshly cut metal to prevent rust.
Actually, paint all brackets and braces to prevent rust.
I used PL Premium as a bonding agent on the "H" frame. It's not seen here but there was also silicone applied to any area's that might allow water penetration. Here, the reinforcing header is glued and riveted prior to installing the "H" frame.
"H" frame glued.
"H" frame secured with 1/4" rivets.
Here are the braces that I still need to install.
Minus the few other braces that must be installed, here's one picture to show the end result.
This is a real easy conversion to do and it only took a few hours to get to this point. Minimal hand tools are required. I have the advantage here because I used an air-powered tool that allows me install 1/4" rivets easily.
That's all for now. I hope you enjoyed this segment. More documentation, and yes, pictures to follow. I'll address the missing braces and weather strip installation.
As I said at the beginning, I'm looking to make this into a fast back car. I've been scouring the net looking for a "reasonably priced" fast back parts car. Well, there are too many people that think these cars are worth their weight in gold. Well I got lucky. Luckier than most as I found a complete, almost untouched 87 GT in a local salvage yard. I was told I could buy the whole car for $600, or buy only what I needed. So, for a paltry $250, I bought "everything" I could use from this parts car! I bought: the fast back section, rear deck lid, both vents, both tail lights, both bumpers, rocker and door mouldings, all the round trim, door locks, carpet, almost all the interior, seats and seat belts, all the clips, nuts and bolts.
With a little elbow grease, and some cleaning products, these parts will look good.
Hope you got the decklid vent retainers to that are bolted to the strut towers. Another member bought a complete car and forgot to take them off when he scrapped the frame. DOH! Did you get the rear harness for the tail lights too? They are different then the notchback tail lights.
One day I'll need to go for a drive out your way, busy right now with another swap underway
Hope you got the decklid vent retainers to that are bolted to the strut towers. Did you get the rear harness for the tail lights too? One day I'll need to go for a drive out your way, busy right now with another swap underway
Hey Adam, you still lurk on this forum? Lol. I got "everything" related to the fast back, including the vent retainers and wiring. I ended up with the back half of Rob's 88 and I'm going to use that instead. I have found the 88 vent retainers from another member and I'll be picking those up hopefully within the week. So in reality, I'd like to find a nicer rear deck lid and then I have everything to finish this conversion. You're welcome to pop in any time. If you do, can you bring the missing T-Top roof molding?
Another swap you say? Whatcha working on?
[This message has been edited by Lunatic (edited 08-04-2014).]
I love threads like this. Thanks for taking the time to post all the photos and descriptions.
Your welds look fantastic. Are you using MIG or TIG?
I'm glad you like this build, I do too! It's my pleasure to show photo's and descriptions of what I've done along the way. This is good for reference, work logs, and/or appraisals.
In the front suspension swap and the rear cradle, all the welds were made using a MIG welder. I'm using a 230 volt Lincoln with Autoweld shielding gas. The rad saddle was TIG welded as it's more precise.
Only a little progress this weekend. I installed the under-the-window-ledge brace.
While I had my carpet out, I noticed the floor drain plugs were non existent. So I made four new ones out of galvanized steel.
While I was under the car, I also noticed the brace below the fuel tank was very ugly. No problem, I made one of those too!
If I have any spare time this weekend, I'll try to finish off the welding on the rear cradle. I need to cap the ends, install the trailing arm brackets and finalize the rear sway bar mounting points. Then a quick sand blast and it's off to powder coat.
After working all day, there simply isn't enough time to get too much done. I did manage to minimize the Cavalier wiring harness down to what I need. I'll be using the BCM as well as it has some features that I'd like to utilize. A/C input for one. The Cavalier ignition also has PASSLOCK II integrated into it. I'll only keep this in place until I remove it using HP Tuners.
How did you come up with the dimensions for your homemade cradle? I spend a lot of time "shopping" in my local salvage yard and often see aluminum cradles from later-model cars just lying on the ground. Always makes me wonder if someone has tried to adapt one to a Fiero, but what you've done here has me thinking that making one from scratch would be better.
How did you come up with the dimensions for your homemade cradle? I spend a lot of time "shopping" in my local salvage yard and often see aluminum cradles from later-model cars just lying on the ground. Always makes me wonder if someone has tried to adapt one to a Fiero, but what you've done here has me thinking that making one from scratch would be better.
I too was like you. Looking for a nice cradle, and lower radiator support, etcetera. (I live in the rust-belt area of Ontario, Canada though.) So, it was just easier to make new parts. This way, I could put braces, mounting points, etc where I wanted them. My cradle is a little heavier than a stock piece. However, it's more rigid and my Ecotec driveline is lighter, so it all balances out in the end. Also, on my cradle, with the engine and transmission mounted, I can get at "everything" and there's nothing in the way. It took a little bit of planning but I like the way it turned out. I can drop my starter, alternator, A/C compressor and such very easily. I suppose I could've made it (the cradle) in 6061 aluminum tubing, maybe on the next one!
Another member on here, Ericjon262, had also inquired about a "cut list" of materials used. I'm glad to share this information freely. However, I'd like to reinstall the cradle, and the fast back prior to handing out this information. I know it all fits but I'd rather the community be their own judge. Plus, I'll upload the CAD files (of the 88 suspension and sway bar brackets that I made) to the net. Then all one has to do is make their own engine and transmission mounts. It's not difficult of a job to build a cradle.
[This message has been edited by Lunatic (edited 08-31-2014).]
------------------ John 1955 Chevrolet 210 Sedan (Shopping list in progress) 1988 SE seized duke...next engine...1996 LQ1 found ~Future 1990 Fiero Clone? 1988 T-Top Coupe rocking 41 MPG! 1986 SE Project Mayhem 1999 F350 Crew Dually ~17mpg city 22 hwy Wife's 2001 Saturn SL1 51MPG high score
Some of you may be wondering the weight of this cradle. Well, I decided to weigh the stock 88 cradle and mine. So I'll share the results. PS-This 88 cradle that I used for comparison is damaged! The car was hit in the side. The only thing missing from the crossmember is the steel plate where the engine mount was.
Cheap bathroom scale with two piece's of 2" x 2" used as a platform. Zeroed out after placing the tubing onto.
88 Cradle on the scale.
88 bare cradle weight = 50 lbs.
My cradle on the same scale.
My cradle weight = 66 lbs.
So as you can see, my cradle is 16 lbs heavier than a stock 88 piece. However, with the lighter weight of the Ecotec and F23 versus the stock 2.5 Iron Duke and automatic transmission, I'm probably close to the same weight overall. Perhaps a little lighter, which is good, but nothing serious enough to upset the balance of the Fiero.
[This message has been edited by Lunatic (edited 08-20-2014).]
I was busy dealing with the estate and didn't get too much done on the Fiero. I did manage to repair two holes in the floor, install the floor plugs and lay down the jute backing.
I picked up some 18" wheels too! I'll need bigger wheels to clear the 13" rotors that I'm going to install.
Since I'm trying hard to remove all the crusty parts from my car, I decided a new rear bumper would be in order. So, here it is. 1/8" aluminum.
And now I'll clean up some light scale with a wire wheel, add zinc primer and add paint. All this in preparation for the 88 rear sheet metal. It was just easier to do it this way. Now I'll have the 88 specific strut towers.
[This message has been edited by Lunatic (edited 08-31-2014).]
Thanks for the compliments guys. You all make this worth while!
Before I built my custom cradle, I had the driveline sitting on the stock, although slightly modified 84 cradle. I chose to add these photo's for those interested in doing the Ecotec and F23 swap using a stock, modified cradle.
Here's the driveline sitting in place.
Here's the 2003 Cavalier F23 mounts with poly installed.
Simple steel plate that can be formed and shaped at home.
Which gives you this.
Old front spreader removed and new 2"x2" square tube welded in further forward.
Lunatic, I just read through page two of your build and a couple pictures you posted about the cradle and the suspension mounting points caught my attention. Given the obvious skills you have with machining and welding, have you considered making your own trailing and lateral links for the rear suspension? I have owned an 88 for a long time, and something I have always wished for is a set of those suspension links that would be made with square tubing and be more rigid than the OE parts. I am speaking of the following two parts:
I have always though that links similar to what Hotchkis makes would be cool:
I would think that you could make a simple jig to hold the two ends, and then weld in some square tubing between the two ends. The ends would be the same ID and width as the OE ones so that standard bushings for the Fiero could be used.
If perchance you do something like this, I would be very interested in buying a set from you!
Lunatic, I just read through page two of your build and a couple pictures you posted about the cradle and the suspension mounting points caught my attention. Given the obvious skills you have with machining and welding, have you considered making your own trailing and lateral links for the rear suspension? I have owned an 88 for a long time, and something I have always wished for is a set of those suspension links that would be made with square tubing and be more rigid than the OE parts. I have always though that links similar to what Hotchkis makes would be cool: I would think that you could make a simple jig to hold the two ends, and then weld in some square tubing between the two ends. The ends would be the same ID and width as the OE ones so that standard bushings for the Fiero could be used.
If perchance you do something like this, I would be very interested in buying a set from you!
Thanks for the reply. Indeed, I could replicate and modify the parts that you've shown and come up with an equally nice component for the Fiero. I've also posted another option. The below items can be bought fairly inexpensively and they provide adjustability which is nice as it can compensate for different offset wheels and such. I like both options and I'll keep you informed as to what route I go with.
SHH!!! Don't tell Lunatic that with all the work he has put into this rusty old beast, he could have bought a rust free 88 Chassis down south and had it shipped home by now... LOL
Crazy bastard! Nice work, you are definitely an artist
After setting the 88 rear sheet metal in place, I decided to install the fastback and check for fitment. It looked good and I was getting slightly excited. Since the 88 sheet metal I got came from a car that was hit, I simply cannot get some mounting pads to line up. After some double checking of measurement's, it appears as though the rear sheet metal is too damaged to use. It looked okay but upon further inspection, I just opted to use the other sheet metal from an 87 that I had. No biggie, I'll get to it when I get some time.
On a side note, not Fiero related, I dabbled on something else. I had transversely mounted a Northstar (and Getrag) into a VW Golf last year. Yes, in the back! Mid-engine baby.
But as time goes by and you find things in your travels, changes happen. I cut up a Porsche 914 and kept some useful parts for a rainy day. Well it rained and here's the start of the Northstar to 914 transaxle (901) adapter. I drew up the adapter and made a template out of 1/8" aluminum. This was necessary to check the fit, squareness and concentricity before I commit to the 3/4" 6061 aluminum plate. Yes, this is a spare Northstar that I used for the mock-up, don't mind the mess! Oh, and all this because I want to mount the Northstar longitudinally!
This adapter clears the Northstar water log.
Since the template was thin, I had to stiffen it up with angle. All in order to get it perfectly flat so the dial indicator could it's job. So far, it's within tolerance. (Which the factory calls out for 0.00" - 0.010")
These transaxle's are made of magnesium and are very light. Don't mind the mild scale build up. It's only in the mock-up stages now anyway.
[This message has been edited by Lunatic (edited 10-11-2014).]
I have an 88 also and would like to improve the rear links.
Where can I find the parts to make a set of these?
quote
Originally posted by Lunatic:
Thanks for the reply. Indeed, I could replicate and modify the parts that you've shown and come up with an equally nice component for the Fiero. I've also posted another option. The below items can be bought fairly inexpensively and they provide adjustability which is nice as it can compensate for different offset wheels and such. I like both options and I'll keep you informed as to what route I go with.
I have an 88 also and would like to improve the rear links.
Where can I find the parts to make a set of these?
Dude, go into any speed shop and ask for "swage tubes". They're are many options available, steel, aluminum, etc. You buy the tubes and the ends depending on the application. You can get rubber, poly or heim-joint ends too. Sometimes it's just easier to measure your old stuff and take those measurements with you to the speed shop and look through the catalogue. There are many options available.
[This message has been edited by Lunatic (edited 11-15-2014).]
Some excellent work you've done. Look forward to further progress. Also looking forward to those blueprints of your cradle. Would be very helpful with my LSJ swap for my 84.
Okay, I have a little time to work on the car again. Since the 88 rear sheet metal was twisted too badly, I decided to use the 87 rear end that I had. It's in about the same shape and since it had rust, I just had to remove it. Follow along as I do the repair.
Here's the 87 hulk.
As you can see what the problem is.
Remove the offending area and you're left with this.
Start with some 16 gauge sheet metal and put a 90° edge into it.
Cut it on the band saw.
Tack it in place.
Note: I made my patches longer than necessary! I did this because the frame rails still need to be welded in. I'll cut the excess off with the plasma cutter once the frame rails are fully installed.
Upper inner rail being made.
Trial fit.
Partially welded in.
I do need to tweak the outer frame rails but that's for another day.
[This message has been edited by Lunatic (edited 10-13-2014).]
After setting the 88 rear sheet metal in place, I decided to install the fastback and check for fitment. It looked good and I was getting slightly excited. Since the 88 sheet metal I got came from a car that was hit, I simply cannot get some mounting pads to line up. After some double checking of measurement's, it appears as though the rear sheet metal is too damaged to use. It looked okay but upon further inspection, I just opted to use the other sheet metal from an 87 that I had. No biggie, I'll get to it when I get some time.
On a side note, not Fiero related, I dabbled on something else. I had transversely mounted a Northstar (and Getrag) into a VW Golf last year. Yes, in the back! Mid-engine baby.
But as time goes by and you find things in your travels, changes happen. I cut up a Porsche 914 and kept some useful parts for a rainy day. Well it rained and here's the start of the Northstar to 914 transaxle (901) adapter. I drew up the adapter and made a template out of 1/8" aluminum. This was necessary to check the fit, squareness and concentricity before I commit to the 3/4" 6061 aluminum plate. Yes, this is a spare Northstar that I used for the mock-up, don't mind the mess! Oh, and all this because I want to mount the Northstar longitudinally!
This adapter clears the Northstar water log.
Since the template was thin, I had to stiffen it up with angle. All in order to get it perfectly flat so the dial indicator could it's job. So far, it's within tolerance. (Which the factory calls out for 0.00" - 0.010")
These transaxle's are made of magnesium and are very light. Don't mind the mild scale build up. It's only in the mock-up stages now anyway.
remember there is a 1/8 x1/8 register lip on the inside of the adaptor to register the transaxle if it is not there you will be in for some nasty repares
I know some of you are interested in building your own cradle and need some guidance and measurements. This drawing needs to be finished. I need to add the lateral end link brackets, trailing arm brackets, sway bar brackets and end caps.
Note: This cradle that I designed was made for "my application". I like the position of the engine, transaxle, suspension mounting points and exhaust routing. I'm offering a basic material cut-list drawing for those interested in making their own cradle. Feel free to modify it as you see fit for "your application".
I'll work on a more detailed drawing with better measurements and different views, etc.
Here's a few more pictures of the frame rail installation and fabrication. Most of the "big stuff" is done and I've decided to use a good zinc spray and coat all the bare metal. I still have to apply seam sealer and paint the primer before it gets too cold. But that's for another day, Man the time flies, it's already November.
Sometimes it's difficult to find time to work on projects as there's always something else that needs you attention. I did manage to get a little garage time though. I smeared some sealer over the joints that needed to be protected.
I also installed the rear bumper for the last time.
To finish off the day, I added the T-top bracing and fit the glass in. I think it looks good and it seems to be centered quite nicely.
I'll make this prettier once I get to that point.
I scrapped a car and kept the seats. These Mustang GT (83-84) halo seats actually fit in the Fiero. The Fiero seat tracks could also be utilized. I set one in place and seeing the halo head rest out the back window is kind of neat. These are taller and I'm not sure I’m going to use them. I was just curious and had to try.
[This message has been edited by Lunatic (edited 11-16-2014).]
the register is where the red a line is this is what locates the trans axle to the engine a must to have
