quote Originally posted by GlennGdman: The grill looks good in there.... fitment is not all that great though... Could you pull a couple dimensions off this for me so I can get an idea how much modification my needs to use these grills... * It looks like the angle section in the lower right can be taken up by making an inner section for the trim piece. * how much do we need to move the fiberglass back and down to get the grill to fit?

The grill is actually supposed to sit at a slight angle on the horizontal, as well as the obvious tilt in the vertical direction. The curvature of the bottom fiberglass is actually identical, just in the wrong spot. I'll be making some slits along the inner panel from the top all the way to the outer rocker panel. Then I'll be able to curve the panel edge so that it flows better to the exact size of the grill. I'll can take some measurements later today once I get home, but they'll only be approximate until I get the rear fender aligned properly.

I adjusted the driver's side A(2)-pillar to match the angle of the B-pillar. Much better now. I've also begun to connect the rocker framing to the spaceframe. I kept the attachment points to a minimum for now. As with the roof, front fenders and front bumper, I'll hold off finalizing the welding until the rims and tires show up so I can get the most accurate alignment. I put the door skin on to help with panel alignment...it will need a little trimming.

The driver's side rocker framework is almost complete, and now tacked in place. I'll need to create the inner framework (i.e. the inside panel that is next to the driver's left leg, where the Fiero handbrake sits forward to the fusebox). This is where the door release handle goes, rather than on the door itself. On the outside of the car, the doors use an electric switch to release the door latch. On the inside though, a manual cable release is used (like on most cars). This stops you from getting stuck inside the car in the event of a power failure.

I'm going to start working on the front and rear door jambs. They will need to be especially strong to ensure there is no movement of the door when open, and of course from a safety point of view, capable of withstanding a side-on collision to some degree.



Note the pile of c-clamps. If you are going to start a similar project, go out and buy a big box of c-clamps (and quick-clamps), all shapes and sizes. No matter how many you have, you'll always need more.

I wish we lived closer. When I get the Countach done, the Aventador is next on my list!

Kevin

[This message has been edited by Lambo nut (edited 08-17-2015).]

quote Originally posted by Lambo nut: I wish we lived closer. When I get the Countach done, the Aventador is next on my list! Kevin

Working on a project like this can be addictive. Do you have a build thread? I don't recall seeing it. I'm sure I'll have to make a long road trip when I'm done. I'll add Missouri to the list

quote Originally posted by Neils88: Working on a project like this can be addictive. Do you have a build thread? I don't recall seeing it. I'm sure I'll have to make a long road trip when I'm done. I'll add Missouri to the list

No I didn't start a thread. Back when I joined, Pennock's was not as replica friendly as it seems to be now so I never bothered. I just came here to get info related to my build as it is Fiero based and even that has diminished as time went on. I did have a web site through my provider but didn't add enough info as I went that it seemed to vanish on it's own. I just keep moving along at my own slow pace now. In the stage of finishing up wiring so I can get it started and running to be able to move under it's own power. Tired of pushing it around when I need it moved.

Kevin

I'm starting to build up the latch support framework. Lots more work needed. I'm not quite happy with it yet. (Requires structural reinforcement and fiberglassing).

I'm using the latch mechanism from a 2003 Hyundai Santa Fe (mounted in the jamb instead of the door). It is installed at a 19° angle to account for the way the scissor door opens out as it goes up. Since the latch sits 90° to how it would sit in a car door, I've had to remove the linkage bars for the exterior door lock and handle. The latch mechanism still has the cables for the interior lock and handle so I will use them for all functions.

On the exterior, I dress the latch mechanism with the Lamborghini cover plate (bottom photo).

For the second time, my welder decided to commit suicide. Just died with a little "pop" sound. I opened it up and checked through it hoping to find a blow fuse or component that I could quickly change. Nothing obvious. Since this was a lower quality "eBay" welder (110VAC, 120Amp DC flux core) I decided it had lived a good life and it was time to put it to rest. I threw it onto my "must fix sometime" pile, and went out and bought a new Lincoln Electric MIG Pak 140 welder. It cost about 5 times what I paid for my other welder but it will last a long time and get a lot of use. Also, I made sure I bought one this time that can run with gas.



I've started to add some structure to the latch framing. I also opened up the Fiero bodywork a little giving me access to the vertical structural beam.



I'll be tying the latch frame to the vertical structural beam, but as mentioned before I have to be careful to ensure I have enough space to run the gas fill-up pipe. The large side vent limits the area I have available to run the pipe. I plan on passing the pipe through the side wall behind firewall and just forward of the vertical beam (as shown in the pic below). There should be just enough room to fit it.

Nice new welder!

You are going to want to weld up a metal "sealed" box if your filler tubes ends up inside the passenger compartment at all. There should be at least one drain hole inside the box to the OUTSIDE. Last thing you want is for a gas leak to be inside the car with you...

Looking good Neil. Cyberweld had a great deal on a Miller, so I upgraded too. Just added gas yesterday. 20+ year old Chicago Electric going to a new home. Can't wait to melt some metal.

Bob

quote Originally posted by GlennGdman: Nice new welder! You are going to want to weld up a metal "sealed" box if your filler tubes ends up inside the passenger compartment at all. There should be at least one drain hole inside the box to the OUTSIDE. Last thing you want is for a gas leak to be inside the car with you...

Thanks Glenn. That's a good point with respect to the sealed box. Having looked at it a little closer, I don't think there is enough room to fit it through there anyway. The vertical structural beam is too close to the firewall for the pipe to fit. So likely the pipe will have to run just behind that sealed area.

I finished off the curvature of the door frame (front and back).



I'm starting to look at the front jamb. This will have to be extremely stiff to resist any movement of the hinge with the door raised. The first thing that I need to know is the exact location and design of the hinge itself. Once I know this, I'll be able to design the jamb for maximum stiffness. I've trimmed and positioned the main door shell into the opening, sitting as it should. From this, I found there was some major interference with the door latch. The body kit was designed to have the latch a little further back. But since I want to use the OEM Aventador latch cover, I put the latch further forward. As a solution, I have cut the back end of the door shell to allow for it to fit. I'll glass it into place in a little bit (I've actually avoided doing any actual glass work for now. I'll have to get around to it sooner or later...)

Though I could use a standard eBay Lambo hinge and weld it in place, I've decided to design and build my own hinges. eBay Lambo hinges are designed to open out, then up, so they would have to be modified to remove the outward motion. Secondly, they use a standard bushing that will wear quickly when the hinge assembly is tilted over at the required 19° angle; they are designed to be installed vertically. I'll be using tapered roller bearings to account for the thrust load generated from the angled hinges.

The door shell is already quite stiff, so I've only added a little bit of bracing. I want to have inner bracing that can be used for securing key items both internally and externally to the door, such as the inner skin, the arm rest, power window regulator, and the latch receiver. I also need to incorporate a safety bar around bumper height. The safety bar runs the complete length of the door, and will hit against the vertical pillar supports in a collision. Another important consideration is of course weight. Unlike regular doors, scissor (Lambo) doors are much more weight sensitive. The pic below shows the completed inner frame, minus the latch receiver bracing at the back end.

You are making good progress...

Thanks Glenn.

I just discovered that the striker plate that I used (2003 Hyundai Santa Fe), doesn't fit properly once the Aventador latch cover is in place. It's about 1/2" too short. I took one of the striker plates and extended it by 1/2" to compensate. It works now, but I don't think it looks as good as it could. I'll have to see if I can track down a longer one. The other option would be to bend a 1/4" 3/8" steel rod and make new one from scratch. I think that would look better than the way I lengthened it, so I'll go that route if I can't find a good replacement.

I have also decided to do some major overhauling of the door shell at the latch end and so I've cut the fiberglass off. I plan on first building the shell framing to accommodate the new striker, and then re-glassing the end of the shell.

[This message has been edited by Neils88 (edited 09-05-2015).]

I've been working on the design of the door hinges. I had a specific dual bearing design in mind that would handle the loads and be completely stable. Unfortunately I have run into a small problem and I won't be able to bring this design together. There is very limited room available at the pivot point location. When the bearing assembly is located there and tilted at the required 19°, one bearing would sit just past the edge of the fender...in other words....it just doesn't fit. The alternative is to compress the design down to a single bearing design, but this won't have much benefit above existing eBay "lambo" door hinges (as opposed to OEM Lamborghini hinges, which would work perfectly but retail for about $1000 a piece). I haven't decided which way I'll go yet.

I ordered a pair of Autoloc heavy duty "lambo" hinges. I really was trying to avoid using "lambo" hinges, but I want to keep things moving so I'll put up with them for now. I can always change them later. I should get them in next week, then I'll be able to carry on with the framing of the forward door jamb. In the meantime, I started working on the passenger side central framing. Now is a good time to get the passenger side framing caught up with the driver's side. Made some good progress today.

Today's work... almost finished the passenger side rocker framing.

Started to fit the passenger side rocker framework. Started by adjusting the A and B pillars slightly to ensure the correct vertical angles for the side glass. Next, after a rough fit of the framework (measured to match the driver's side framework), I've put the panels on to help finalize the alignment (which hopefully will happen tomorrow).

quote Originally posted by Neils88: Today's work... almost finished the passenger side rocker framing.

That's a lot of welding there my friend. Good job.

quote Originally posted by CMacD: That's a lot of welding there my friend. Good job.

Thanks! You definitely have to enjoy welding with this kind of a project!

Spent a couple of hours working on the passenger side latch frame. I used the driver's side latch frame as a guide and planned to duplicate it. Unfortunately when I started welding it all together, I copied it too closely. I forgot to reverse it for the passenger side... now I have two driver's side latch frames... I'll try for a passenger side latch frame tomorrow.

HA HA... so I am not the only one who does things like that.....

Practice makes perfect....

Well, stuff happens. The next will be better.



Bob

quote Originally posted by GlennGdman: HA HA... so I am not the only one who does things like that.....

Glad I'm not alone!

quote Originally posted by RCR: Practice makes perfect....

I must be an expert by now!!!!

I made the passenger side latch frame today. (I checked everything several times before I welded it... ). I still have all the cross bracing to go on both the passenger and driver's side. The cross bracing will connect the latch frames to the main vertical structural posts with will ensure everything is properly stiff and increase side impact protection. I also plan on painting all the new framework eventually.

Coming along well.
Can't wait to see this finished.

I removed the gas fill pipe so I could shorten it. (yes...I resisted the urge to cut it half with the grinder, while it was still connected to the gas tank...). I'll run the pipe to the new location and make sure all metal parts are properly grounded.



After UPS lost my radiators, the auto parts place shipped me two new ones. A few days after they arrived, a third arrived. I made a deal with the parts place, and they let me keep it for $40 rather than paying to have it shipped back. It's a great idea to have a cheap one to use as a template, since it will definitely get banged around and damaged. I'll use it to help me make all the radiator supports.

The next two pics show roughly where the radiators will be fitting (one on each side). They will fit behind the main vents and connected in parallel to maximize cooling. Hard to see in the photo, but they do fit reasonably well. The wheel well will be vented to ensure good air flow.

I added the extension to the rocker sub-frame, which will help finish the rocker, and define the bottom of the main side vent. However, I discovered that the radiator didn't fit properly with the sub-frame in place. The radiator would have been jammed against the wheel well.



The solution was to modify the main side structural frame slightly. I cut and moved a portion of the frame a few inches forward, changing the angle slightly. This allowed the radiator to move forward about 3 inches. This gives lots of room for the radiator to fit, and room for at least one fan (and possibly a second fan). This structural modification will also be repeated on the passenger side.



I'll next make some small radiator supports that will cushion and secure the radiator, and allow for it to be changed if required.





The main vent supplies a majority of the air flow. However, there will also be an additional air flow path from under the car that will help supply air to the lower portion of the radiator that gets hindered by the frame.

Will you have any fans on the radiator in case you get in stop and go traffic or a real long line to enter an event or something?

quote Originally posted by Khw: Will you have any fans on the radiator in case you get in stop and go traffic or a real long line to enter an event or something?

I will definitely have one per side. I have enough room to have a second one per side but fans draw a lot of current so I'll have to think about whether or not running 4 fans is overkill. The radiators cores are 12.5" x 26", so two 12" fans per side would fit well...but that could be 50+ amps in stop and go traffic (plus the pounding stereo and lights etc....). I'm not sure what the Caddy alternator is rated at?

Neil,

The radiator fits in there tight but nicely. Did you add a tube inside of the reinforcing tube you modified? If not you are going to want to grind down the welds on at least 2 sides and weld a plate on top of the welded area and onto both tubes.

Could you measure the thickness of the grill on the outer edge? I am making a backing plate that will stop the grill from falling behind the inner panel.

quote Originally posted by GlennGdman: Neil, The radiator fits in there tight but nicely. Did you add a tube inside of the reinforcing tube you modified? If not you are going to want to grind down the welds on at least 2 sides and weld a plate on top of the welded area and onto both tubes. Could you measure the thickness of the grill on the outer edge? I am making a backing plate that will stop the grill from falling behind the inner panel.

Glenn,

I didn't use an internal tube, but I plan on having some extra external braces along the structural beam to help secure the air conveyor(s). I will make them a little larger than required for the conveyors, so they will work as additional structural support.

The edge of the grill is 3/8" thick.



The tabs are 1/8" thick, with a small raised piece that is used to secure the grill. (Of course I'm missing a few tabs, here and there....so I'll have to get a little creative when I secure the grills)

Thanks, hopefully that is the last piece of information I need to finally finish the inner panel. I decided to just build one from scratch as I was not getting to far with the Inspire one.... Hopefully you have better luck then I did.

[This message has been edited by GlennGdman (edited 09-13-2015).]

quote Originally posted by GlennGdman: Thanks, hopefully that is the last piece of information I need to finally finish the inner panel. I decided to just build one from scratch as I was not getting to far with the Inspire one.... Hopefully you have better luck then I did.

Glenn, let me know if you need any more info or specs from the OEM grill. I plan on using the panels that I have. I will add an air conveyor that opens up to match the grill shape. But I'm not too worried about matching the OEM lines. I'll just make sure that it looks good, and is functional.

My new rims are in! They are staggered. Fronts are 19" x 8.5" (15 offset). Rears are 20" x 10" (35 offset). 5x100 bolt pattern.

I plan to use 245 / 35 R 19 tires on the front and 295 / 30 R 20 in the rear. Most likely Pirelli PZeros. They will of course be used with a wide track suspense designed specifically for them.



Also received my "Lambo" hinges. Hopefully I can make these work in the limited space available. I may be forced to modify them. The good news is that they are only 2" thick, which definitely helps.

The car looks bare! Stripped it down so I could get the frame alignment fine tuned (again...). I moved the roof / door / rocker framing back about 1/2" . I think it is finally where it needs to be.

I've also been trying to fit the Lambo hinges. I don't believe it will be possible. They are just simply too large to fit in the correct spot under the top of the fender. I've put them aside for now and I'll be trying "Plan A" again. I've dusted off the hinge that I designed and will see if it can be modified to fit. I had expected to spend a couple of months getting the doors to fit and work properly so I don't mind going back and forth a bit to get this working exactly how I want. I told my wife that I would put the lambo hinges on her Ford Focus if I end up not using them...

Since I wasn't able to get the Lambo Hinges to work (just not enough room...I'll save them for a future project) I put together a new door hinge design using dual bearings. I have them mounted at an angle to ensure everything moves correctly without rubbing (well mostly...there is one tiny corner of the door shell that touches the frame, but that'll be easy to fix. I checked and it looks like the door skin, glass, etc should be fine as well. I plan on using some of the hardware from the kit (i.e shocks, etc). With the door fully open, there is less than 1/4" play, and it appears to be from the C-Clamp holding the door to the hinge. Once bolted together properly, that should eliminate any play. Also the upper part of the hinge frame will be expanded and welded to some additional fender framing to ensure there is absolutely no movement.