I have the instructions that you had sent me when you were "prototyping" the sets a year or so ago. I wanted to see any pics of the routing of the bars, and ends. That'll help me find out if they'll fit with my current suspension setup. Thanks!
-my email is correct. jwarren269@yahoo.com
------------------ 1988 Fiero Formula 4-spd- 3400sfi intercooled turbo Haltech ECU. Here comes 350+whp 1991 Galant VR4 - Summit White 2.3L, SCM61 powered Slammed Sedan 1990 Eclipse GSX - parted out 1992 S10 4x4 - lowered, bike/quad hauler, dd 1995 Kawi Ninja zx7r 2004 Honda TRX450R #33W MX
I have the instructions that you had sent me when you were "prototyping" the sets a year or so ago. I wanted to see any pics of the routing of the bars, and ends. That'll help me find out if they'll fit with my current suspension setup. Thanks!
-my email is correct. jwarren269@yahoo.com
If you have those, then you have something that is close enough for routing. The updated instructions are not that much different. You may have the latest version anyway. I have not updated it in a while.
Just installed the bars last night, nice product very well thoughtout and easy to install once you get the old bars out of the way thanks again for everything. D.
I'm interested in getting more information about your '88 front bar. I'm building an '88 with Held Motorsports 6" track width increase (3" per side) front and rear. Since I'm planning to use the car strictly on the street, I'm using the stock rear sway bar on upper knuckle adapters, but I've found nothing so far to allow me to install a front swaybar. On the front, I also have Held's 1.5" drop spindles. It looks pretty straight forward with your design to be able to offer a sway bar for any track width. (I understand the longer the bar, the lower the spring rate for otherwise similar bars, so I also understand that your graphs below won't reflect the exact performance of a custom length bar, but that's OK). I would be interested in knowing whether you can offer a longer bar, whether you think the drop spindles will interfere, and whether you believe the adjustability of your current sway bar ends is sufficient to accommodate a balanced car given that the stock rear bar's effectiveness is somewhat reduced due to the longer rear control arms leverage. Of course, I'd like to know what the additional cost for a longer bar would be as well.
I'm interested in getting more information about your '88 front bar. I'm building an '88 with Held Motorsports 6" track width increase (3" per side) front and rear. Since I'm planning to use the car strictly on the street, I'm using the stock rear sway bar on upper knuckle adapters, but I've found nothing so far to allow me to install a front swaybar. On the front, I also have Held's 1.5" drop spindles. It looks pretty straight forward with your design to be able to offer a sway bar for any track width. (I understand the longer the bar, the lower the spring rate for otherwise similar bars, so I also understand that your graphs below won't reflect the exact performance of a custom length bar, but that's OK). I would be interested in knowing whether you can offer a longer bar, whether you think the drop spindles will interfere, and whether you believe the adjustability of your current sway bar ends is sufficient to accommodate a balanced car given that the stock rear bar's effectiveness is somewhat reduced due to the longer rear control arms leverage. Of course, I'd like to know what the additional cost for a longer bar would be as well.
Dave.... thanks for the PM Lots of good questions.
Longer bar - You are correct in your assumption that the bar can be made longer and the spring rate change that will result. Currently my front bar for the '88 is 37.5" long. I believe that I can get a 43.5" bar made but the maximum "non-custom" (ie no additional charge) is 42". Therefore if I can have one made there will be an additonal charge of $46. I am 95% confident that this is possible. . Drop spindles - Does the drop spindle work with a stock sway bar? Also, if you send me an email address, I will be happy to send you a full installation procedure so you can evaluate the potential fit concerns. I have never installed one of the held suspensions before, but I have had customers with them. As I recall, the end links need to be changed. Also it is worth noteing the size and rim offset. Sometimes turning the wheels to the lock and cause an interference. . Car balance - That is a tough one. With the additional swing arm distance added to your rear while maintaining the same swaybar, you have (and you mentioned it) effectively decreased the ability of your sway bar to counter act the input at the wheel. To get a rough idea of how much you changed it, picture the lower swing arm that extends cross car from the cradle. Measure the distance from the piviot point to the applied force (for this case you can use the outer arm piviot point) and from the piviot point to the center of the tire in the stock position. Next determine a ratio:
(Length of cross car lower arm) / (Piviot on cradle to center of force from the tire in the STOCK location ) = Ratio 1 . (Length of cross car lower arm) / (Piviot on cradle to center of force from the tire in the NEW location ) = Ratio 2 . Ratio 1 / Ratio 2 = The factor you have decreased your sway bar rate. . Please note that these are approximations.
The rear of the '88 only had an 85 lb @ 5 degrees of twist capibility anyway. So I figure you will be in the 60 lb range. That is pretty light. Any bar I offer up front will most likely be in the 100 lb to 140 lb range (nominal). The adjustment of the front bar is minimal compared to the adjustment of the rear bar I offer for the '88. So..... Although I am not certain about the outcome, I believe that the front bar will still over power the rear causing the car to push and the adjustment in my front kit will not be enough to compensate for the difference.
I race an 88 SE at Road Atlanta, and I installed a set last spring. They are fantastic. I was able to take 8 seconds off my lap time the first day. The race car is lowered, and fitted with coil-over Konis on all four corners. At R.A. turn 12 follows a blind up hill turn at the top. Into a down hill kink entering turn 12. Prior to installing HPP sway bars I had to brake before actually entering turn 12. After installing and tuning the competition bars I now put the peddle on the floor at the top of the hill and leave it there until entering turn 1.
The car does a beautiful four wheel slide going through 12. Drifting out to the edge of the track then catching as I slowly unload the steering
I race an 88 SE at Road Atlanta, and I installed a set last spring. They are fantastic. I was able to take 8 seconds off my lap time the first day. The race car is lowered, and fitted with coil-over Konis on all four corners. At R.A. turn 12 follows a blind up hill turn at the top. Into a down hill kink entering turn 12. Prior to installing HPP sway bars I had to brake before actually entering turn 12. After installing and tuning the competition bars I now put the peddle on the floor at the top of the hill and leave it there until entering turn 1.
The car does a beautiful four wheel slide going through 12. Drifting out to the edge of the track then catching as I slowly unload the steering wheel.
I'm very interested in a set and already hooked up with Paul. Can you share if you encountered any clearance issues, both front and back, since you lowered your suspension? Thanks!
I race an 88 SE at Road Atlanta, and I installed a set last spring. They are fantastic. I was able to take 8 seconds off my lap time the first day. The race car is lowered, and fitted with coil-over Konis on all four corners. At R.A. turn 12 follows a blind up hill turn at the top. Into a down hill kink entering turn 12. Prior to installing HPP sway bars I had to brake before actually entering turn 12. After installing and tuning the competition bars I now put the peddle on the floor at the top of the hill and leave it there until entering turn 1.
The car does a beautiful four wheel slide going through 12. Drifting out to the edge of the track then catching as I slowly unload the steering wheel.
The difference is like night and day.
Chuck
Woodstock???????????????????? I am in Woodstock as well give me a call sometime I would love to see your car.
I also have the HHP sway bars on my 88 GT and it is lowered as well. I have no problems with any clearance at all. Paul makes one of the best parts you can buy for a fiero. D.
I've got an 86GT with an 88 cradle under prep to go in so I may be the first to try out the bars with an 84-87 front and 88 rear...
88racer, I've ran Road Atlanta several times while attending the Panoz racing shool so I know exactly where on the track you are refering to. What was your sway bar setup prior to installing the HHP bars? Had you already added a rear bar such as an addco or were you running with the stock front bar with none in the back?
I let a professional driver judge the setup and he was very impressed: The car is very neutral, while both understeer and oversteer can be generated in different types of corners. Only lacking some horse power (170-180 plus NOS which I did not use on the track) but the car is capable of about 270-280 hp's according to the professional driver. Of course also brakes have to be done at that time: the front was smoking by the end of three laps! Anyway, very satisfied with your bars: thanks again!
I let a professional driver judge the setup and he was very impressed: The car is very neutral, while both understeer and oversteer can be generated in different types of corners. Only lacking some horse power (170-180 plus NOS which I did not use on the track) but the car is capable of about 270-280 hp's according to the professional driver. Of course also brakes have to be done at that time: the front was smoking by the end of three laps! Anyway, very satisfied with your bars: thanks again!
Thank you for posting this Joe! I'm very happy you are enjoying your bars.
I've got an 86GT with an 88 cradle under prep to go in so I may be the first to try out the bars with an 84-87 front and 88 rear...
88racer, I've ran Road Atlanta several times while attending the Panoz racing shool so I know exactly where on the track you are refering to. What was your sway bar setup prior to installing the HHP bars? Had you already added a rear bar such as an addco or were you running with the stock front bar with none in the back?
Marc, I know this is probably too little, too late, but I understand that the car in question is a Formula, so it's likely that it had the stock rear bar (as 88 GTs and Formulas do) before the HHPs.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-03-2011).]
I just installed my new swaybars last night. Very good product, I am very pleased!
I used his 84-87 front swaybar and an 88 rear swaybar on my cradle swap. Both using the intermediate bar. Still need to get everything dialed in but I am very impressed by these bars. Very nice parts
Pardon my not knowing, but I think the sway bar is the main difference between the 88 coupe and the 88 formula. I have an 88 formula that I love, and an 88 coupe I am swapping a 3800 sc into. Will these sway bars make the coupe drive as well as or better than my formula?
Pardon my not knowing, but I think the sway bar is the main difference between the 88 coupe and the 88 formula. I have an 88 formula that I love, and an 88 coupe I am swapping a 3800 sc into. Will these sway bars make the coupe drive as well as or better than my formula?
The only significant difference between the 88 coupe and 88 Formula is that the Formula has a rear swaybar and the coupe does not.
The swaybars Paul offers are stiffer than the stock swaybars on the Formula.
I don't see any reason why the lateral link relocation kit would interfere with the swaybar. It only lowers the outer pivot of the links, and the swaybar connects to the strut mount, not the links.
Lots of good questions. 
