There's not any news regarding for the enclosure project, I was working on my car to get it done and drivable. I will now have more time for the project. The next step to work on is a bracket to hold them under the dash.
We are close to get it...
Fred
Any updates?
I'm getting prepped to take my dash off to fix some cracks and repaint and would love to have this box ready to go in during the project.
[This message has been edited by msweldon (edited 09-27-2010).]
Originally posted by Black Pegasus: ...I can't describe the feeling I had when this subwoofer was playing. It really brings the bass the Fiero desperatelly needs and all that with an 8" subwoofer! ,,,
And it will sound better when pointing to the floor. Trust me. This is the perfect Fiero subwoofer box in my opinion. A good 8" with a good amp will blurr your rear view mirror and your chest
As ALJR just said; they never been into production YET. I still didn't lost my interest, don't worry guys.
Now here is my situation: I wake up each morning at 6am, go to college for my classes, come back at 6pm or something (Depends of the days) and I do homework until midnight or sometimes even 3 am... Just to start all over again the next day. Then, on weekends I work to pay the college and my Fiero. I don't have time to work in the garage at all. An other thing is that my car is parked in 2-3 feet of snow (Welcome to Canada... lol) and the doors are jammed/frozen that I can't open them. Its hard to access my car a this point.
The reason why I still need my car its because I still not design the proper mounts. For that, I need a car without a dash that is accessible.
For my small Christmas vacations, I had time to make one enclosure (Not even cut out, no mounts... only the fiberglass.) An other problem I encountered was the fiberglass smell (I was in a closed garage, no circulation at all (I still had a good mask though) but the smell was so strong that my eyes were crying. And when I start an enclosure, I have to finish it the same day. . . . . . I am VERY sorry guys, I know that some of you are very anxious of getting an enclosure. Some of you might say I find excuses and I try to extend everything but in fact everything about Fiero is a hobby. I am not like V8 Archie or any other business out here on this forum (No offense, I love those guys and I have lots of respect for them). What I'm trying to say is that I don't make this for a living. It's hard for me because I wanna please everyone but in the other hand, I have very little time left for hobby, I wanna make sure the product will be a high quality one for all our satisfaction. . . . . . I'm sorry for the wait guys, I just want you guys to know that I'm still into the project so don't worry.
Any progress on sub box Fred? I have a 8" here that would go well with the box. I don't mind not having the brackets, considering it will probably mount different in my car anyway because it doesn't have AC.
Any progress on sub box Fred? I have a 8" here that would go well with the box. I don't mind not having the brackets, considering it will probably mount different in my car anyway because it doesn't have AC.
Fred's brother has the first prototype mounted in his "air conditionned" Fiero, matched with the Pioneer Sub. I have the pre-production enclosure mounted in a "NON air conditionned" Fiero, matched with the JL Audio Sub.
The above description hints to the fact that prototype mounting brackets are designed for both with / without air conditionning.
Fred's brother and I agree.......... a fiero was meant to have a sub
[This message has been edited by c-l (edited 06-06-2011).]
It's been a while I haven't posted here! The reason you guys didn't had a lot of news is... well... I was busy with work and the Fiero. I was working on it to be able to run it as soon as possible for this summer, but it ended up i took it out for the first time at the beginning of august. (Motor swap, suspension, grinded and painted the whole front...) It was a lot of work! Now that I have a temporary motor in my Fiero, I still have to rebuilt the one that was in it so it will probably keep me going until the school restart! Tough, in the mean time, I will try to make some enclosures here and there.
As stated above, my brother has the prototype strapped in his car, my father has the pre-production with the prototype brackets mounted under the dash, and I made the first production enclosure that is in my car. I am still working on the brackets which had been made by hand. I will mount it as soon as I get the courage of taking out my dash. lol
Making the bracket by hand is a long process since we are limited on the metal equipment. I am trying to make all the adjustments before contacting a local shop to send them the AutoCAD drawings so they can cut them for me (Waterjet). It's going to be way cheaper that way, and way faster!
Now, I have started an other enclosure which is almost done (Just waiting for the brackets to be riveted on). I can't mount the brackets on the enclosure since last time, I didn't took precise measurements on where they exactly go. (A small mistake and they might not be able to fit properly. Though, the first sale approaches!!!
Note: 84 Fieros with A/C will need some modifications to the plastic vents cover beside the enclosure since the chime module is screwed into it instead of being hold by a bracket. The cover will need to be cut and patched to aloud the enclosure to fit under the dash. (A picture would help to explain, but don't worry, I will explain everything properly and with pictures, make a walk through and specific instructions that will be given with the enclosure.)
I will keep you informed (Probably start a fresh thread) as soon as the first one is up for sale.
Just a sugestion and please don't take this the wrong way. Before you go and invest money in having the brackets made (as I am sure there would be a minimum number you would have to order), you should give us a ballpark figure on what this setup will cost... Time and time again I have seen people say they want something; then when the time comes for them to pony-up the cash to buy it, all you hear is crickets...
I for one would love to buy this to replace my JL 6.5 sub, but "I" can't see doing so if this enclosure is going to cost me $300... Giving us an aprox. price would help "me" determin if this is something I want right now, or to hold off until some of my other projects are completed... I would hate to see you invest your hard earned money then having to wait a couple years to recoup your investment or to make a profit...
The reason I didn't put any price at this point is: I don't know EXACTLY how it cost to make an enclosure. With the first enclosure that will be up for sale, I've managed to calculate the cost of material, but I'm not done yet with the calculations. (Right now it's missing the cost of the brackets) Though I can give you guys an idea on the final price based on the material and the time invested at this point.
Per enclosure, the price will be around 200$ WHICH INCLUDES: -The fiberglass enclosure with a gelcoat finish -The enclosure already cleaned, prepped and painted black -The terminal already mounted with subwoofer wires for the terminal to the subwoofer (Inside the enclosure) -3 Custom metal mounting brackets for each Fiero model and years (With and without A/C) already painted and installed on the enclosure
The only things you have to do is the work on the car: -Removing the dash. -Relocating the chime module. -On 84's Modifying the plastic vent cover. -Mounting the subwoofer into the box (With the pioneer's screws but I will send some for the JL Audio (They are not coming with any)). -Installing the enclosure at the proper place under the dash. -Run the subwoofer wire from the power amp to the enclosure. -Re-installing the dash.
It might not seams like it but making one enclosure is a long process and requires a lot of material. It doesn't just stop as making fiberglass.
I DO NOT GUARANTEE THAT THE FINAL PRICE WILL BE 200$!!! It's only an idea. Keep that in mind.
Let me point out that some 8" underdash enclosure made out of sonotube were selling up to 100$, which is not the same production cost, nor the same work and hours
The first one is the 84 duck work that needs modification, I'm referring at the 2 "pins" that needs to be shaved off. If you have an 84, keep in mind that you need to do that.
Now I will show you the different clearance with and without the air conditioning. The enclosure mounted is without A/C and the one which is sitting on the car floor is with A/C. You guys can see the difference of the clearance with the duck work. (The first picture has been taken at the belt level while sitting in the car.)
And now, upon request, some pictures of how it looks mounted in the car. You CAN NOT see the enclosure from the outside of the car.
I was standing outside the car when I took those pictures:
When kneeing outside the car, you start to see it:
When crouching:
From the inside of the car, it can easily be seen THOUGH, it keeps a low profile look, not attracting much attention since its similar and close to the duck work and has a similar black color. The first one is like when you look down at it, the second one is as if you look straight out of the windshield.
I like it. I actually was looking for this thread, as I'm getting interested again in having an 8" subwoofer in my car.
A few questions: Why did you chose not to make the enclosure wider, essentially conforming to all the space given by the HVAC plastic duct work? Wouldn't that increase volume a bit more? Would I be able to accidently kick the speaker with my foot where it's at? Would a grill, or grill bars be able to be mounted over the speaker? Did you get a chance to pour rice, or another volume measurement device into the enclosure yet, so we know how many cu/ft it has?
Could you post a picture of what it looks like from the driver's seat? Could someone post a picture for the stock Fiero subwoofer (my car doesn't have one) matching Pegasus' pictures, and a picture from the driver's seat? I'm kind of interested in how much more/less it portudes.
Finally: Great work, can't wait to see a final product. Further: I hope you always guess price on the high side, with a pleasant surprise at the end: to ensure that enough people buy it to not give you any surprised on cost of production.
Consider making brackets that can be laser cut, waterjet cut, or plasma cut. I may help you cut those from a CAD file, if you specify thickness material, etc. as I have access so the machines mentioned. PM me and we can figure out details as not to crowd this thread.
Originally posted by Black Pegasus: Now I will show you the different clearance with and without the air conditioning. The enclosure mounted is without A/C and the one which is sitting on the car floor is with A/C. You guys can see the difference of the clearance with the duck work. (The first picture has been taken at the belt level while sitting in the car.)
Nvm. I think I may have answered my own question. So the enclosure uses the maximum room available, the top picture has a smaller HVAC duct, and that's why it looks like there is space not taken advantage of, correct?
This is exactly correct! With A/C and without A/C do NOT have the same duct work. For the amount of time invested in one design, i don't want to invest into making 1 kind of enclosure for A/C, one without, one for 84s, one for... etc. I preffer only one universal enclosure that requires only minor modifications in different applications.
It's been a couple of times where people are asking me why I didn't make it bigger, I will try to make this clear. (Note: I'm putting capital letters just to attract all the attention, I am not angry, I just want everyone to see it clearly. ) . . . . . THE ENCLOSURE DOESN''T NEED TO BE BIGGER! I did put water in the enclosure to measure up the "air volume" the enclosure is. We arrived at 0.35 CUBIC FEET. If you guys remember correctly, the JL Audio subwoofer (8W3V3) required an air volume of 0.30 CU/FT for optimum performance and the Pioneer can go from 0.10 to 0.50 CU/FT, but for an optimum performance, it requires 0.4 CU/FT. Again, WE ARE AT 0.35 CU/FT WHICH MEANS WE ARE BANG ON IN BETWEEN BOTH REQUIREMENTS!!! This means, even if we would have all the space imaginable under the dash, it would still be the best way to go, if you go bigger or smaller, you loose performance.
NOTE: I did said 0.35 CU/FT. Though, air volume MAY change from one enclosure to an other due to the difference in the thickness of the enclosure itself. (Nothing too drastic though, maybe 0.02 CU/FT of difference) . . . . .
Yes, not only would you be able to accidentally kick the subwoofer with your feet, I think that you WILL accidentally kick it. Unless your VERY cautious with everyone who gets in your car, telling them you have your subwoofer there, I still think that eventually, the inevitable will happen. It is right above the foot rest, without any protection, I'm affraid it will happen. JL Audio is actually making a grill for the subwoofer, which, I think, is well worth the investment. I will try to provide the part number. Unfortunately, the Pioneer subwoofer doesn't have a grill. If a universal grill fits, or you can add some bars, I think it would do the trick!
I hope it answer to all questions. I'm assuming you still want the pictures from the driver side. I will try to provide them as soon as possible!
Yes, not only would you be able to accidentally kick the subwoofer with your feet, I think that you WILL accidentally kick it. Unless your VERY cautious with everyone who gets in your car, telling them you have your subwoofer there, I still think that eventually, the inevitable will happen. It is right above the foot rest,
Could one still use the foot rest, or does the box/woofer sit too low to use it?
It's a tricky question. In theory, yes someone can still use the footrest, but the feet isn't flat on it unless you have very small feets. Here are some pictures with my feet. Note: I wear 8.5 shoes, for all the 3 pictures, I did not moved my foot, it's just different picture angles.
So this is why I'm strongly recommending this for the JL Audio:
This is exactly correct! With A/C and without A/C do NOT have the same duct work. For the amount of time invested in one design, i don't want to invest into making 1 kind of enclosure for A/C, one without, one for 84s, one for... etc. I preffer only one universal enclosure that requires only minor modifications in different applications.
That makes sense, I didn't expect you to. Just one SKU for the most common denominator. I just didn't know that the space available changed depending on A/C. Didn't know '84 was different as well.
Do you think that subwoofer would fit Amida's 355 dash? That may open up the market to kit car owners as well and increase the potential customer base.
Sorry for the wait, I have been planning on how to explain everything properly and, it took some time.
We did realized the 84's not the same a couple of weeks ago.
Now to answer questions: I have never seen amida's dash in real life. Though, if the dash is bigger and has more space behind it, it should work in theory. Though there is absolutely no guarantee it will fit. The amidas dash might not fit as the same place, therefore its rounded shapes might be in the way.
-The subwoofer Overall Diameter (A) is maximum 9 inches (If not, the subwoofer will exceed the enclosure's diameter) -The subwoofer Mounting Hole Diameter (B) is approximately 7 inches minimum. (It can be cut bigger to make the Pioneer subwoofer fit) -The subwoofer Bolt Hole Circle (C) needs to be inside the dimensions of (A) and (B) -The subwoofer Mounting Depth (E) is about 8 inches maximum. Think of your subwoofer as a cylinder, 7 inches in diameter and 8 inches deep. To clear every odds shapes, count 3.5 inches down the top of that cylinder. At this point, the cylinder needs to reduce its diameter to 5 inches. Now it will alow it to go down 4.5 inches until it hits the "bottom of the box". So now imagine a cylinder of 7inch in diameter by 3.5 inches long, then an other cylinder attached by the center that is 5 inches in diameter by 4.5 inches long. this is the space aloud in the box. That's why you need to consider not only the magnet size, but the shape of the subwoofer so it will be able to fit in those two cylinders. Which makes it difficult to say if some subwoofer fits or not before trying them in.
Again, this box has been planned for the Pioneer and the JL Audio only. I did not took in consideration other subwoofers.
Note: all the dimensions were taken on a production enclosure. Though because it is fiberglass, the thickness of material may change from one enclosure to the other. . . . . . Now updates!
I have installed my first enclosure under the dash in an A/C car. I will have to re-design some of the brackets again. Make a walk-through of the mounting procedure since it is very tricky to install. The pile of work is still growing for this project since every little details seams like if it makes a difference.
How goes the project... don't want it to get lost in the achives before it comes to pass... Got to sawp my indys cracked dash for a new one at some point, so this might be the perfect thing when the time comes.
------------------ Rescued & resuscitated 1984 Indy Fiero SE Pace Car Replica #770 presently reversibly modified! SE: Stormtrooper Edition
Just to make things clear, I have no intention on letting go the project!
Hi everyone!
I've just finished my semester in college, and the second one will start un the begining of January. So I haven't had the chance of going through this.
As for production and having some ready for christmas gifts, well, it's christmass in 2 days. The other problem I'm running into is that it's winter. Therefore making fiberglass in a garage closed, without any ventilation because we are heating the garage, hasn't the best smell and the best effect on a human body. The chemicals are so strong it can affect negatively the human body if there is not enough ventilation. I might still work on the design though (Ex: for brackets).
Though don't worry, the project is still alive!
I wish you guys/girls a happy holidays, happiness, wealth, great health to you, familly and friends.
Those are still not available, still figuring out the brackets. I've done a couple design and arrived at some improvement, but I'm still not at the point where I want to be. The car is parked away from home for winter so I can't have access to a Fiero interior to improve/try new bracket design.
Thank you all for your interest, and I can't wait to finally start a production. The bracket designing is getting very redundant.
also watching this thread. If is just a mounting issue, some of us can deal with that, if you want to crank out some blanks. Maybe getting a few out to the mass's will lead to individual's coming up with some good feedback for you, to then incorporate into your design. Sometimes you have to have others take a fresh look at something, because you can become so focused on the perfect product. Just an idea.
Agreed that sometime constructive feed back is a great way to improve a product. But lets take for example my first bracket design I've done, there was so much metal vibration because of the brackets that it was not only noticable, but it was literrally ruining the listening experiance.
Again, I am sure that some people won't notice the sound (Like if you have hearing problems, are older, don't listen to music very loud, if you listen to music that doesn't have alot of bass). If you are in that group of people, the brackets will only make a very little "buzzing" sound barely noticable. (Even though I notice it)
I have been trying that enclosure in the most extreme condition (Because trust me, I've abused it to ensure the quality of the product) I've noticed some issues:
#1 - If the enclosure isn't made properly (The fiberglass process), there will be rattling from the fiberglass; #2 - If only one screw to mount the subwoofer in the enclosure is stripped, there will be rattling noises; #3 - If only one screw to mount bracket to the enclosure is stripped, there will be rattling; #4 - If there is not a good sceal because of the opening, the bracket holes or anything else, there will be distortion/rattling noise; #5 - If the metal bracket is attached to the metal frame directly, there will be rattling (Intensity will variate depending on the volume, bass etc....); #6 - If music is listened loud enough, the metal screw used to attach it to the frame will loosen and create MAJOR rattling; #7 - The enclosure isn't supposed to be in contact with the dash, if not, you probably guessed it: rattling noise!
Those are all the factor needed to be considered in the design.
This summer, I will try to improve my bracket design by making a 3 contact point design (So that the enclosure can't move in the X, Y or Z axis), I will try to use lock nuts (If they fit) to keep the bracket from loosening. And if there is still some noise, I will try to come up to a design with metal and rubber brackets to lower the amout of vibrations.
The biggest reason why I'm not starting a production and everyone is supposed to making their own brackets, it's because I don't want people to judge my enclosure design by saying it is faulty and not worth the price, when the only reason it makes rattling noises, it's because of the bracket designs.
The reson I KNOW that it's not the enclosure design, it's because I already tried a couple of enclosure in a fiero, just sitting on the floor without any mounts. The sound was amasing! There weren't any unwanted noise coming out what so ever. But it wasn't practical, it was using alot of the passanger legs area and when I was making a corner, the enclosure was tumbling one side to an other. It's not something you want your subwoofer to do.
I hope you get a better understanding of the process. Right now I do have a certain plan, I just don't have the time (School has priority, sorry.) And the car to be able to work on it. If things doesn't work, I will consider (as the last option) still selling the enclosure and people will be responsible for their own bracket design. :/ But this summer, i'll be making it a priority because I am tired that this project doesn't see the sunlight.
Glad to hear you are still working on it. It is probably too late now, but it sounds like making the enclosure a smidge smaller might give you more room to attach brackets and/or padding at contact areas to eliminate rattling noises.
Still anxiously awaiting a final product.
------------------ 1988 Fiero GT Custom Corvette / MR2 electro-hydraulic power steering 17" rims covering up 11.25" rotors with Cadillac Calipers & drop spindles
Bump so it doesn't get lost! Summer is approching, had the chance to go in my car this weekend to listen to a couple of songs while the car was parked. Damn that sound is exquisite! Better than I remembered!
Only waiting for college to finish up and then I'm jumping into Fiero projects! (Heres a small list of things I need to do.) -Repairing my sunroof that leaks; -Make something to lift the back of my car; -Finish off the engine I'm rebuilding -Change the engine for the one I've rebuilted; -Rebuild the tranny; -Switch everything bushing on the car to polyeurethane; -Install a motorsport bumpsteer kit; -Repair my rack & pinion; -Make an alignment; -Changing headlights; -And it goes on and on........ (And this is only for my Fiero)
But don't worry, I will be really pushing myself to start a production of enclosure even with all that stuff to do!
quote
Originally posted by TG oreiF 8891:
Glad to hear you are still working on it. It is probably too late now, but it sounds like making the enclosure a smidge smaller might give you more room to attach brackets and/or padding at contact areas to eliminate rattling noises.
Still anxiously awaiting a final product.
It's true, It's kind of late. There would be ways to fix that up but it would be costy and long. It would be my last resort. We will se how thing goes, I have a lot of ideas on the sketch board and we will see where it goes.
Locking nuts and rubber washers at mounting points. Also look into felt pads to dampen sound. When u percect ur bracket location, consider fiberglassing it to the enclosure. Maybe this will help stiffen and reduce vibrations? Maybe even make the mounting brackets out of fiberglass. Just some quick outside the project brain storming..
