I like the logo on the side. Not sure if that's legal though, I probably wouldn't use it on the production version, or make it optional. It's great for advertising/marketing though.
I have 60mm, 90mm, and stock dual beams mounted in special frames that fit into a test stand. I am waiting for the new bi-halogen 90mm to arrive. I will photograph side by side comparison shots. I was out the other night scouting locations and came up with the above images.
The illuminated logos on the bucket side are a work in progress. Soon I will offer Fiero and other custom badges. The colors to avoid will be red and blue.
I was able to see your work firsthand today, and while I didn't check things out in depth, initial impressions were very positive. Once I get hold of a project car that I can tinker with, I'll have to start saving some cash back so I can get a set of your headlamp buckets mounted with 60's.
I received the new Hella 90mm Bi-Halogen the other day. I have been very excited to receive one so I could compare it to the 60 and 90mm fixtures I currently build for.
It is a larger fixture with reflector that is "non-integral" to the case unlike the 60mm. The plus is that this same fixture is used for the HID version with a different reflector, possibly a different projector lens as well. The down side for me is that it is so large it will not fit in my current 9090 bucket. I will have to completely redesign it again. (more on that later)
The adjuster layout is identical to the traditional 90mm low beam. The new adjusters are larger with a coarser thread and more importantly the Phillips head has been replaced with a torx. The "ball socket" is much larger in diameter. ............... 90mmLB ................................. Bi-Halogen ........................ 60mm LB as you can see the new 90mmBi-H has a much larger lens than the traditional 90mm fixture.
about 175mm in overall length (not a normal ruler, you must do the math)
About 10-20mm shorter
the 60mm is just about as long as the 90mm Bi-H at 170mm
Hella 90mm Bi-Halogen I can't really measure the lens size because distortion caused by the curved outer portion of the front glass. It looks like about 70mm but it could be 60mm, dunno.
I received the new Hella 90mm Bi-Halogen the other day. I have been very excited to receive one so I could compare it to the 60 and 90mm fixtures I currently build for.
It is a larger fixture with reflector that is "non-integral" to the case unlike the 60mm. The plus is that this same fixture is used for the HID version with a different reflector, possibly a different projector lens as well. The down side for me is that it is so large it will not fit in my current 9090 bucket. I will have to completely redesign it again. (more on that later)
The adjuster layout is identical to the traditional 90mm low beam. The new adjusters are larger with a coarser thread and more importantly the Phillips head has been replaced with a torx. The "ball socket" is much larger in diameter. ............... 90mmLB ................................. Bi-Halogen ........................ 60mm LB as you can see the new 90mmBi-H has a much larger lens than the traditional 90mm fixture.
about 175mm in overall length (not a normal ruler, you must do the math)
About 10-20mm shorter
the 60mm is just about as long as the 90mm Bi-H at 170mm
Hella 90mm Bi-Halogen I can't really measure the lens size because distortion caused by the curved outer portion of the front glass. It looks like about 70mm but it could be 60mm, dunno.
Last night I shot a photo spread to capture the beam differences between these different fixtures. My helper was shocked to see how much better the projector optics were than stock sealed beams. The new Bi-halogen is great but I still prefer the dedicated optics of quad 6060s I have not dialed in the proper exposure to adequately compare beam and output. The two are very related and I need to create better images to relay what the human eye (the ultimate camera) sees.
Quick taste 60mm LB
traditional 90mm LB
90mm Bi-H on low
The new bi-halogen is much better at illuminating the shoulder than the traditional 90mm. Maybe not quite as good as the 60mm, but close and darn good. This is important for night driving on tight mountain roads.
Nope, no road / range shots yet, I did these with the fixtures handheld.
Yes HID is possible. The Hella 90mm Bi-Halogen is identical to the Bi-Xenon with some internal differences. These new ones do not fit in my 9090 bucket. I must redesign it to make room.
Be warned. The complete HID system: Fixture, ballast, bulb, cables, and connectors retails at $550 each
Not to highjack your thread or anything, but what front end is that, and where did you get it? I love the way the GFX slope down in the front! I'll obviously have to put one on my second GT after I get your headlight mods installed!
Thanks,
Robert
[This message has been edited by Axdrenalin (edited 05-24-2011).]
Not to highjack your thread or anything, but what front end is that, and where did you get it? I love the way the GFX slope down in the front! I'll obviously have to put one on my second GT after I get your headlight mods installed!
Nope, no road / range shots yet, I did these with the fixtures handheld.
Yes HID is possible. The Hella 90mm Bi-Halogen is identical to the Bi-Xenon with some internal differences. These new ones do not fit in my 9090 bucket. I must redesign it to make room.
Be warned. The complete HID system: Fixture, ballast, bulb, cables, and connectors retails at $550 each
Yea, the price did worry me a bit. How much would 60mm HID's bring down the price?
The housings of these fixtures are cast aluminum with a coating. The 90mm modules; both the traditional and the bi-xenon have reflectors installed within the housing. This has allowed them to offer the same model in both quartz halogen and HID.
With the 60mm, the inside surface of the housing is the reflector. They would have to design and cast a different housing to accommodate HID Unfortunately, I don't really think that will happen. ------------------ "Now you too can see in the dark." http://projectorretrofit.com/
[This message has been edited by hairballrm (edited 05-24-2011).]
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OK here is the current status of things at ProjectorRetrofit.com
I am currently offering two bucket models for the Fiero. The 6060 and 9090. I have a finished and tested production design for a 6090 (60low 90high) but have yet to sell one. I am working on a new design to accommodate the new Hella Bi-Halogen. The Bi-Xenon version may or may not fit, we shall see. If you want HID, the traditional Hella 90mm HID low beam will fit in my 9090.
My designs are not copies, never have been. I wanted to put modern optics in our cool old cars. I had to conform to the original geometry, clearances, and wear points. Your expensive German fixtures will not rub on the underside of your headlight doors.
I have replaced the supplied adjuster system with stainless Alan bolts. The original Phillips heads would always get "buggered" up and then rust. The 90mm adjuster "ball seats" are fragile, so I got rid of them.
I can accommodate any wiring needs you may have. If you want to wire your own, I have all the parts you need and would be happy to walk you through it. I also make a plug an play "Y" adapter that plugs into the stock H4 socket. If you want Full Time Low I have a dual relay harness you can install. I also can add fog and driving light interconnect.
I build complete "loaded" kits to order. Right now I have buckets and 60mm modules in stock Three bolts a side, install your wiring, and aim.
How hard is it to put the hid 90's in and is there much ofa difference between the 90 mm regular and 60mm, and do the 60mm use the same plug as the 90's. I have the fif 90 mm buckets and they work great, but would it even be worth it for me to change the headlights out to 60mm. The spoiler on the black car is the notched sage chin spoiler. I have that on my car as well flattens out the front snout nicely and really adds flair to the front.
Remember there are three different Hella 90mm fixtures with the identical adjuster layout: 90mm projector low beam 90mm free-form high beam 90mm Bi-Halogen / xenon I have started to refer to the first two as "traditional" There is a HID version of the traditional 90mm low beam and it should bolt right in to your F1F buckets. ask F1F use an aftermarket D2S capsule and ballast and you should save some money. The adjuster ball sockets on the newest module are different and will not fit into the same adjuster holes.
I never want to suggest that the 90s are inferior. It is just that the 60s are better. I could make a adapter plate, but it would be simpler to sell your old set-up in the Mall. The differences are subtle. Before you go to this expense you should upgrade to FTL (full time low beams)
* from an e-mail I just sent to a past customer who needs a harness and has questions *
I have been using ceramic bulb sockets made by SMS. They use a "weatherpack" (or good copy) cable seal. Weatherpack is is a trade name for GM Delphi /Packard I was able to find both H9 (90mm) and (9005 60mm) actual Delphi connectors at a good volume price. I will order some on Monday. We shall see how good they will be on delivery.
I only use Hella sealed relays. They seat into "nesting" relay bases meaning I can clip as many relays together as I can fit in the space. So far I have made only one triple relay fog light interconnect harness for a customer.
I crimp and solder all the connections and seal with shrink tube. Internal corrosion within a solder joint is not an issue. Dielectric grease is cheap long time reliability for connections.
edit * my full time low feature is accomplished via a diode jumper. I have added a disconnect should you wish to disable this feature for "desert night driving." Arid conditions, long straights, triple digit speeds. I now include an extra set of connectors should you wish to run wire to your dash and install a disable switch.
I talked my way out of a "exceeding posted maximum" and potentially a "unsafe speed" ticket from a state trooper a while back. My lights were better than those on his new Dodge. Have you driven in "tule" fog with them this year?
If you want to add lighting effects to your buckets, I would be happy take your older set in on trade. There is no need for you to be without lights. Just ship your old ones back after you install the new ones. This sentiment goes out to all my customers who were my "early adopters". If you would like the newest stuff, call me, we will work something out.
I talked my way out of a "exceeding posted maximum" and potentially a "unsafe speed" ticket from a state trooper a while back. My lights were better than those on his new Dodge. Have you driven in "tule" fog with them this year?
If you want to add lighting effects to your buckets, I would be happy take your older set in on trade. There is no need for you to be without lights. Just ship your old ones back after you install the new ones. This sentiment goes out to all my customers who were my "early adopters". If you would like the newest stuff, call me, we will work something out.
And that right there is why I love this forum. Vendors that sell and item for a purpose other than money. Hairballrm just wants use to see better so that we may drive safer. I may opt for the new set after I save up for the FLT harness
I'm really exited about these lights. I'll probably place an order for them in late summer, early fall if I chose the HID's as they are a bit more pricey.
If you do have the time, I'm still curious about the distance the beams shine. Stock, vs. 60mm, 90mm, and HID's. - Did you order HID's for testing yet? Which ones? 60mm, 90mm, or Bi-setups?
I have a lower 9090 bucket that will house the traditional 90mm HID low beam projector modules and 90mm high beam freeform reflector. If you have F1F buckets this should work for you as well.
I am still working on a "side by side" (quad fixture) bucket that will house the new 90mm projector Bi-Xenon. I could build a single fixture bucket pretty easily. That would depend on interest. I have steered away from this because I view the whole Bi-"beam" thing as an optical compromise similar to dual beams. Dedicated high and low beam optics are king.
A couple things I have learned.
Photographing headlights is really tough. There is no substitute for the naked eye.
Brighter is not always better. I need the FTL feature for the type of driving I do, but too much foreground light is an issue on straights at speed. I am now shipping my dual relay harnesses with a disconnect and an extra set of connectors so you may wire a "FTL enable" switch. I am also not too keen on using traditional 90mm HID low beam projector modules because if this. They have a center hot spot and lack the quality "curb" lighting that the 60mm LB provides. If we want anything to be brighter, we need it to be our high beams.
I think it really depends on what you prefer. I find that I'm frequently driving around other cars, therefor I can't use my high beams often. HID's provide more light everywhere in low beam mode (AFAIK). HID's in high beam perform differently then dedicated high beam projectors. I think that HID's in high beam could be comparable to running dedicated projectors with FTL on with the exception of the dedicated high beams may light up more distance down the center of the road. Comparing HID's high beams to dedicated high beam projector only is a different story. You can't get the pencil beam (for lack of better description) from HID's. HID's will always have side lighting, due to having optics for low beams.
One advantage to HID's is the amount of output they have. Since they have so much output then can afford to not be as efficient with the light and "waste" some. So I think HID's on high and dedicated high beam projectors should have the same amount of distance lit up down the road. Difference being that with HID's you might not be able to focus that far down the road due to the side lighting and possibly more foreground lighting. I would love to see a side be side comparison, preferably in person. When I get some "extra" money I'll get some HID's together and I'll try to meet up with the a local guy that has your buckets. Or if money allows I'll get a pair of hella's from you also. Parts for maintaining the car have taken away from the money to buy upgrades atm.
You know optics better then I. But that is how I think they compare.
One last thing to add. You can't lump all HID projectors together. It's like saying all flat panel tv's are the same. Some are very poor quality/optics. Other are high quality with very good optics. Again it would come down to what you prefer. There are HID's projectors for many different preferences. But that's a whole other discussion.
Originally posted by bnevets27: I think it really depends on what you prefer.
Lighting, whether in your house, business, or roadway is a matter of personal preference. Of course, there are controlling authorities like the DOT who set rules.
Discharge lighting is not new technology. Compact electronic ballasts have made it viable for 12dc automotive applications. I think HID for cars is the future.
The difference in the shape of the arc filled capsule compared to that of the tungsten filament is what makes it hard to create that hard specular light that makes the pencil beam you spoke about possible.
quote
Originally posted by bnevets27: I would love to see a side be side comparison, preferably in person. .
There is no substitute for seeing this stuff with you own eyes. Hopefully I can figure out a way to video this.
quote
Originally posted by bnevets27: One last thing to add. You can't lump all HID projectors together. It's like saying all flat panel tv's are the same. Some are very poor quality/optics. Other are high quality with very good optics.
Bingo My neighbor bought some Chinese composite headlight assemblies with projector low beams and reflector highs for his Durango. They looked really cool, but the high beams were completely worthless to the point of unusable. He put his stock lights back in and cut the lows out the new assembly just to mount them in his bumper fog-light openings. I took him for a ride in my car the other night and made a Hella believer out of him.
My father used to play with my brother and me in the yard. Mother would come out and say, "You're tearing up the grass." "We're not raising grass," Dad would reply. "We're raising boys." ~Harmon Killebrew
I'll obviously have to put one on my second GT after I get your headlight mods installed!
