I need a tank for our racing 24 hours of lemons how much of the fuel get to the pump is more important than capacity. Our larger tank seems to crap out anfd then only need 7 gallons to fill it we even periscoped the vent in the tank.
The <13 gallon capacity is the longer tank. Its about 3" longer at the front of the tank so it may only hold a few cups of liquid. I did not check the capacity of my tank but its not much less.
I bought a tank that was longer the front of the tank has to be modified the height has to 2" lower on the 86 in the front. Also the best way to mount it is make longer t bolts and use a strap across the bottom. We opted for an out of tank fuel pump I will post the exact part numbers from summit and russel when I find them again, http://i629.photobucket.com...lege330/P1160216.jpg I needed 2 3/8 pipe 90 degrees one to # 6 and one to # 8. Than a metric 10mm to #6 a #6 female to female an Accell 74730 TPI fuel rail fittng to #6 which fits into the fuel filter and uses the stock hoses. Our Tak uses the boat fuel sender since Fiero ones stink. We have only the 2 inlets vent moved all to the top and filler close tot he top we eliminated all the other stuff as it is a "race car" and feul expansion and emission is not an issue.
Thanks for the feedback!! In your opinion is it doable for the DIYer to modify the front of the tank or should we work on modifying our design? I appreciate the input and the part numbers you used to get your tank in and running!
Just got back from Tony's shop to talk about another order that was placed. Lou had some great ideas that I think may work great for anyone wanting one of these tanks.
The sender he used is one Tony supplied, its a brand new marine sending unit and the best part is they only add about $40 on to the tank price. If your sender is not working or is inaccurate right now your only chance at a new one is the Fiero Store for $200 + shipping. These senders should work great for many years and cost much less, plus they are much easier because Tony can install it for you when he builds the tank. The only drawback is that with this sender you cant use the stock fuel pump, which is why Lou went with the bosch external pump which would be recommended for anything other than a stock motor anyway. Tony added on a pump port at the rear bottom of the tank and a return port at the rear top of the tank for Lou to plumb in his pump and it looks like he has a nice setup, plus you can get external pumps in varying outputs to suit your needs and its much easier to change them.
Tony is going to get with the supplier for the senders to see if they can change the resistance to 0-90 ohms for our stock gauges, the one Lou got is somewhere around 200-300 ohms but he thinks they can change that. I will update when we find out for sure.
Sure if you can find someone to make them. We build custom aluminum tanks because thats what Tony was setup to do since he has been making aluminum marine tanks for many years. Its not in the cards for us to make a plastic tank right now but feel free to offer one if you can make it.
Bump, still making these. Seems this thread gets forgotten quickly, I cant imagine $300 is too much to spend for a completely rust free brand new aluminum tank. The old ones are getting harder to find and we can custom make one of these for you in a matter of a week or so.
Interested in one for a 87 2.5l bone stock. Let me understand a few things first. What changes or mods would be required to fit? Am I understanding it correctly, are you offering 2 different sizes? The stock capacity tank is fine for us. Read the threads on this and seems this tank would be best for swapped motor applications.
What fuel pump and sender set up would you recommend for a stock 2.5L?
Good questions, guess I should clarify where we are with the tanks. We only have 1 tank design, it is a culmination of what we have learned from customers early on. The tank itself is just shy of 13 gallons and the only modifications it takes to install is to either redesign the straps or figure out some other means of holding the tank up. Past customers have come up with a few creative ways to do this. Our regular design has provisions to use the stock sending unit and fuel pump as well as fill and vent tubes. The tank fits the same in early and later year cars.
As far as using it on a stock motor, I don't see any problem with it. I originally made the tank because mine was rusted and I couldn't find a good one nearby. The bigger capacity was just a bonus of the design. I made the tank to be able to use all stock components except straps, which were also rusted. Now, we do offer to modify the tank if you choose to change to NPT fittings or other pipe attachments. What we have done in the past is one customer wanted an external pump so we just put a suction and return fitting at the back of the tank and used a marine sending unit. Simple mods won't cost extra except the parts.
If you have a rusted tank and want a good operational vehicle for years to come this tank is the answer, high performance and stock cars Both can benefit from this investment and provides flexibility in fueling never seen before for our Fieros.
-Joe
[This message has been edited by joesfiero (edited 11-24-2011).]
Thanks for the bump. Keep in mind that this tank fits all year fieros the same. The design difference from 84-86 and 87-88 didn't change the tunnel in the car where the tank mounts. Alternative methods of holding the tank up are required for any year, my car has the cross brace holding the tank up for 8 months without issues now and that cost me nothing, but people have come up with ways of extending the stock straps or making their own straps, whatever works for the buyer.
[This message has been edited by joesfiero (edited 12-04-2011).]
You might have another buyer sometime soon. Im doing a motor swap and want to try to use the fuel pump and sender from my donor car. I would need a different setup for the lock ring. Ill get in touch when im to that point. Thanks!
[This message has been edited by Goldenfoot05 (edited 12-26-2011).]
OK, so I forgot that i needed a new tank, and now im interested. I've read the thread twice and I still have some questions, so please bear with me.
1. I understand the straps not being used, and using the X brace to hold it in, just how "tight" does the tank fit up into the tunnel, can you still get to the original strap location or do you recommend cutting them out?
2. I have swapped out the stock motor for an LS3, no mods were done to the stock tank, except that a new fuel pump installed, so will my stock "stuff" just swap in, will anything need to be made longer/shorter?
3. after I remove my stock tank, will the two rubber hoses, (gas/vent) fit back on the new tank, or have the locations been moved? If I request "a stock tank" will everything just fit like a "stock" tank?
4. With the increase in volume, does the gas guage still read 1/4 tank at 1/4 tank, 1/2 tank at 1/2... you get the idea, does the guage read what is in the tank or will it be off?
Yes these are still available for purchase. They are custom built upon order so I just have to get with Tony, my builder and double check that everything is still good on his end.
The tank has gone through several design changes. Since my original tank was made we have lengthened it, cut the height a bit and added a slope to the front. My tank is still in my car that I drive 2 or 3 times a week for the last year or so. The straps should be figured out by the buyer as I dont have a way of designing a strap setup to sell right now. My best suggestions would be to either lengthen the existing straps (add a piece in the middle, welded bolted or riveted on), using the existing cross brace as my tank is held up with, or creating a new way to strap the tank. People have suggested two straps similar to the cross brace that could bolt to the floor pans somehow. Seems like a decent idea just dont have the ability to test it out right now. My tank held in with the cross brace fits very tight, I had to use a jack to hold it up while I started the bolts. Shouldnt be that tight with the reduced height but I believe it will still be a tight fit as in not bouncing around in there.
The tank I have uses the Fiero sending unit and pump assembly. I am not happy with the way it seals though, but you could design some other type of seal, put a liquid (fuel safe) sealer around it, etc. I used the stock O-ring and it will leak if I fill the tank all the way (out the top). It is possible the ring could have moved though causing it not to seal. If you choose to use the stock stuff Im sure it could be made to work just fine with some more thought put into it.
Part of the increased capacity comes from moving the vent and fill tubes a little higher on the tank allowing more gas to fill the void. Mine is all the way at the top of the tank and I was able to still use the stock hoses all the way around, no troubles putting them back on.
The gas gauge in my car doesnt work right. Period. I bought a brand new Fiero Store sending unit with the updated sender design to put into my new tank. I dont know if my gauge itself is screwed up or if its the sending unit but it reads all wacky. Close, but wacky. It will go all the way to E when its empty though, half tank seems to be all over the place and full seems pretty close. Again not sure if its the unit, the gauge or what. I know that with the redesigned height it is pretty close to stock tank height inside where the sending unit is, and the placement on the tank is stock. With the marine sending unit we are working on, we may be able to get a much more reliable and accurate sending unit for less than a new FS one. The only drawback would be having to use an external fuel pump (though some may see that as a positive). In short, it should work as it does now, just be more careful sealing the assembly to the tank when installing it than I was and you should be pretty much stock for stock swap.
Shipping on the last few tanks was in the $35 or so range, you are fairly close to FL so it shouldnt be more than that. If interested I will get Tony to build the tank with a $300 deposit and then bill you for actual shipping cost when its built and ready to send off.
I do take paypal but it really bites into the cost. I would need to charge the 3% fee to be fair unless you decide to trust me enough to send the money as a gift to avoid fees.
I will give Tony a ring tomorrow. If anyone is serious about getting a tank made PM me and we will work out the details. We can change or move things if you decide to, I just need to know exactly what you want before I can get it made.
Oh and there are pictures on my build thread of the tank. I dont have exact measurements because I havent touched a finished tank in a while.
Part of the increased capacity comes from moving the vent and fill tubes a little higher on the tank allowing more gas to fill the void. Mine is all the way at the top of the tank and I was able to still use the stock hoses all the way around, no troubles putting them back on.
-Joe
I realize this is in the mall and not tech, but this is such a huge safety issue it really needs to be stated. The reason for the "void" above the filler necks is there is for expansion. If the tank is full and the fuel expands from heat the void area absorbs the greater capacity of fuel. The later cars had the expansion tank located in the right quarter panel, allowing more fuel to be in the tank. The posability here is that without the airspace to expand into you likely can push fuel out onto the ground (or garage floor). It can and does cause fires. I heard that Fieros are prone to it, no need to add likelyhood to the history.
I appreciate the info, and would like to point out that I did mention in this thread that moving the vent tube up doesn't leave airspace for expansion an also that I ask every customer that buys one exactly where they want their vent and fill tubes located. I don't just put them wherever, you have a choice.
I will also point out that I have an 85 with no expansion tank and my vent tube is all the way at the top and has been in my car for over a year and it has never overflowed from expansion.
I appreciate the info, and would like to point out that I did mention in this thread that moving the vent tube up doesn't leave airspace for expansion an also that I ask every customer that buys one exactly where they want their vent and fill tubes located. I don't just put them wherever, you have a choice.
I will also point out that I have an 85 with no expansion tank and my vent tube is all the way at the top and has been in my car for over a year and it has never overflowed from expansion.
-Joe
But yours leaks, as you mention above....so....that's not really useful to mention your year of experience, is it?
It only leaked on me once, when I kept pumping gas into the tank after it clicked. It came out the seal where the sending unit attaches but as soon as I drove it a little over 2 miles I parked it for a half hour or so (hot) and it never came out of the tank from expansion after that. LIke I said I suspect the seal may have shifted when I installed the sender which is another reason I want to figure out the marine sender deal. I am just waiting on them to send Tony a price on the senders with 0-90 ohms and the right size for these tanks.
Those marine senders are made to mate up to a flat aluminum tank anyway so Im sure the seal will be much better than I could get using the big O-ring seal under our sending units with an attaching ring screwed to the tank as mine is. It works fine but I would feel much better knowing my sender was sealed flat across the surface and made for that application.
Sorry, all I have is the pictures of my own tank before I installed it. The minor changes we have made wouldnt change the look of the actual tank enough to make a huge difference here.
Yes they are still available. Sent one out last week and another being made this week or next. They are made to order so please be patient as they may take a couple weeks to be made.
I have some confirmation on the marine sending unit that I was looking into. Looks like it will only add $80 to the tank and can be made and shipped to Tony in 2 weeks so by the time the tank is made it should be in store and we can mount them for you and ship together.
Ill put together a more informative post about this option when I get more info and pics later.
I am inquiring about one for racing purposes. Lou and I race together so I can chat with him as well about the mods. I would want the marine sending, external pump, max capacity. My current stock 88 tank is having a issue with fuel pick up at 1/2 full through right hand high speed corners and after market fuel gauge shows 1/4 when empty
I have done a quick read through but can you send me the details on pricing and the options?
Thanx
[This message has been edited by Racer_JT (edited 07-02-2012).]
An aluminum fuel tank is an interesting item but I would think that you will need to have the internal acceleration baffles to make it work right. With say 1/4 tank of gasoline and hard acceleration the gas supply will be forced to the rear of the tank making the fuel pump possibly run dry, and the engine stall. If the tank has the baffles then you have a great design.
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With the larger width of this tank you cant use a strap like attachment because there is no room on the sides of the tank. The attachment would most likely need to be something to the floor pan of the car at the front and back. Mine is held up with only the cross brace and it was a very tight fit. I dont think the tank can go anywhere as it is but I will probably make up a front and rear mount eventually.
The tank baffles mimic stock, there is an aluminum plate welded just in front and behind the stock pump area so the fuel doesnt rush one way or another on accel or decel. There is still room for the fuel to move just not as fast.
wondering if there is a different design for the baffles that might work better for road racing ???? where the g load is way higher than a stock car see's I am pulling over 1.5 g every lap and have seen a peak in the 2 g range around the banked carousel at summit
