This is with -2.5* static rear camber, 350 lb-in rear springs, no rear swaybar, solid rod end lateral links, and fieroguru's lateral link relocation kit:
Those are 275/35/18 Hankook RS3s on the rear... very sticky.
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Originally posted by fieroguru:
Thanks for the feedback and picture! You don't happen to have a picture before the relocation brackets and wheels/tires added do you?
The pic below is my old setup, before the relocation brackets and new wheels & tires -- less grip. Static rear camber was the same for both setups.
I have some videos showing the rear wheel action but haven't had time to edit them yet. I'll post links here once I do. I don't remember if I had any videos from before I added the brackets, but I have a lot from after.
Forgot to mention I'm running 18x9 wheels in the back with a 45mm offset. Fieroguru provided trailing link spacers in case the trailing link didn't clear the inside of the rim. It clears without the spacer, but barely. These wheels are probably at the limit on backspacing without using a trailing link spacer or other modifications. I don't think a 17x9-45mm would fit without a spacer.
Forgot to mention I'm running 18x9 wheels in the back with a 45mm offset. Fieroguru provided trailing link spacers in case the trailing link didn't clear the inside of the rim. It clears without the spacer, but barely. These wheels are probably at the limit on backspacing without using a trailing link spacer or other modifications. I don't think a 17x9-45mm would fit without a spacer.
Good point. I was just looking at mine. My wheels are 17x8 / 35mm and I was looking at the clearance between the corners of the brackets and the edge of the rim. Plenty, but a much deeper offset might run into issues. (Paul, I can measure or take pics if you'd like, while my car is on the ramps.)
With 17" wheels, there will be interferance to the strut/upright bolt flange well before any interferance to the trailing link. 18" wheels pass over the strut/upright flange which then makes the trailing link the first point of interferance. Here are some mockups showing these issues from this thread: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/120740.html
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Originally posted by fieroguru:
For the rears, I kept the tool setup for 17" 8 1/2" & 6" of back spacing and checked them. The tool has a slight interference with the strut mount/upright ear and the inner edge of the wheel tool is nearly flush (might stick out 1/8") with the top of the rear wheel well.
One of my main goals with this exercise is to maximize wheel width under a stock bodied fiero. From checking the 17" 8 1/2" setup, I noticed that going to 18" in the rear would give me more depth to play with. So I adjusted the tool to 18" diameter, 10" wide and 7 1/2" back spacing. This allows the tool to clear the strut/upright and the only interference is with the trailing link (which can be reworked or bushed from the upright to clear).
I am running this kit on my LS4/F40 car with 16x7 35ET wheels... it required contouring the supports for the trailing link bracket to clear the wheel and eliminated the possibility of wheel weights on the inside edge - so my wheels are balanced with weights in the center section.
This kit will not fit 15" and 16" wheels. It fits 17" and larger wheels w/o issue.
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Originally posted by fieroguru:
I am running this kit on my LS4/F40 car with 16x7 35ET wheels... it required contouring the supports for the trailing link bracket to clear the wheel and eliminated the possibility of wheel weights on the inside edge - so my wheels are balanced with weights in the center section.
Okay, I'm confused now.
It appears then that your lateral link relocation kit will work with 16" wheels (and some effort). Is it simply too much trouble for most of us to bother?
I'm just in the process of working out the bugs from a Formula I got a couple months ago, and my goal is to have it ready for autocross in the spring. However, I have no desire to change the 16" track tires/wheels that I've been using (on another Fiero) up to this point.
Its quite simple, I market my kits (lateral link brackets and my 13" brake kits) for issue free installation because I don't want my customers to have installation issues. Installing the lateral link relocation kit on 16" wheels requires some clearancing to the bracket and even then beyond a certain width/offset combo it is a complete no go.
I am a firm believer of using/abusing my products on my personal cars and both of my Fieros have the same Millie Miglia MII 16x7 wheels, so I made both items fit my wheels, but just barely.
In this picture you can see where I removed metal from the bracket to shape it around the backside of the wheel lip. This eliminates the possibility of lip wheel weights and requires the wheels to be static balanced. If the wheel bearing ever gets loose, or something else allows the wheel to touch the bracket, it will shave the backside of the wheel. Had my wheels be another 5mm deeper, then the lip would have been into the thicker portion of the bracket and not allow installation at all.
If you are building an 88 and want the widest rear tires possible, then you need 18" wheels to get the lip over the strut/upright connection. Anything smaller and you are giving up 1" or more in width opportunity. Eventually I will upgrade to 18's in the rear, but till then I will rock my 16's!
Installing the lateral link relocation kit on 16" wheels requires some clearancing to the bracket and even then beyond a certain width/offset combo it is a complete no go.
The wheels I have are 16x7 with an offset of P38. Can you say with any certainly that they will or won't work with your brackets, with or without some clearancing?
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Originally posted by fieroguru:
Had my wheels be another 5mm deeper, then the lip would have been into the thicker portion of the bracket and not allow installation at all.
If it came down to being able to use your brackets (with those wheels) or not being able to use them in a situation such as that, would using a 5mm wheel spacer be an acceptable option?
Originally posted by Patrick: The wheels I have are 16x7 with an offset of P38. Can you say with any certainly that they will or won't work with your brackets, with or without some clearancing?
Mine are 16 x 7 35ET, so yours are 3mm deeper on the backside and will likely put the lip into the thick metal part of the bracket
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Originally posted by Patrick: If it came down to being able to use your brackets (with those wheels) or not being able to use them in a situation such as that, would using a 5mm wheel spacer be an acceptable option?
I won't recommend spacers for a car you plan to autocross. With almost any thin spacer, you will lose the hub centric feature of the wheels. With the bracket that close to the wheel any deflection or movement will grind the backside of the wheel.
Its quite simple, I market my kits (lateral link brackets and my 13" brake kits) for issue free installation because I don't want my customers to have installation issues.
This is what I like to hear from a vendor! From a satisfied customer.
OOPs!!!! just saw that spider - scared the hell out of me for a moment!
[This message has been edited by ICouldaBeenAV8 (edited 10-29-2013).]
Hey Paul, just finished installing poly in the rear of my Formula and from my best calculations looks like I will be lucky to get any neg camber on the passenger side. Typical GM :-(. So if I leave my ride height factory (for now) will I see any gains if I install your relocation kit? I know I will need bigger wheels, but if they will help I want to move wheels higher on my priority list. Thanks!
Hey Paul, just finished installing poly in the rear of my Formula and from my best calculations looks like I will be lucky to get any neg camber on the passenger side. Typical GM :-(. So if I leave my ride height factory (for now) will I see any gains if I install your relocation kit? I know I will need bigger wheels, but if they will help I want to move wheels higher on my priority list. Thanks!
With a completely stock setup, you should be able to get 2+ degrees negative camber on each side of the rear. If you can't then look for binding between the strut and the upright. There is a lip on at the top of the upright, on the backside that can sometimes hit the strut body and cause adjustment issues. Most just grind that spot down some. I would suggest you loosen the upright to strut bolts and check to see where the lower one is in the slotted range of motion.
This kit when installed on a stock ride height Fiero (lateral links nearly horizontal), will relocate the outboard links 1 1/2" down. This will pull the bottom of the wheel in ever so slightly and tend to reduce the static negative camber. If you install it on a lowered fiero where the links are already angled up, it will make them closer to horizontal, which will push the bottom of the rear wheels out slightly and gain some negative camber.
