I've been following this thread very closely and with all do respects I think there is one person on this forum who could start making and selling these rapidly. He has the tooling and the knowledge to do this. I will pass on this opportunity and ask FIEROGURU to take a look ... he maks top notch parts and would definitely buy one for my 88.
greatest regards to all
Danyel
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Originally posted by fieroguru: Thanks for the referral, but I think this product should be brought back by aaron88.
Aaron88 has sold all his fiero stuff and left the fiero side of things ... he has not been seen in the fiero communities for a year and I’ve been told no return in the near future .... so Aaron88 has left the building !! He lives on the canadian side of the border by the way... if you will not take this on I know of someone who will .. I just want to be sure not to step on any toes.... Danyel
[This message has been edited by Danyel (edited 04-18-2018).]
Originally posted by Danyel: Aaron88 has sold all his fiero stuff and left the fiero side of things ... he has not been seen in the fiero communities for a year and I’ve been told no return in the near future .... so Aaron88 has left the building !! He lives on the canadian side of the border by the way... if you will not take this on I know of someone who will .. I just want to be sure not to step on any toes.... Danyel
One of the many differences between you and I is that I have a deep respect for those who develop creative and innovative products. Aaron's adjuster was quite creative and innovative and I purchased one of the first 5 he sold.
If I copied this design and started selling them without his expressed permission, then not only have I disrespected him, but I also demonstrated to the world that I can't be trusted with other people's ideas and products, which makes me an IP risk. Just because he sold his Fiero, hasn't posted in a long time, and lives in another country, doesn't change the fact that it is his wonderful design (not mine) and that he did not give me permission to do anything but install it and enjoy it.
If I started copying every product I have been exposed to, then people would stop selling me their cool products, and trusting me to be involved in their R&D efforts. That simply isn't who I am as a person or vendor.
Danyel, you don't need my approval to do anything, this isn't my product/design...
Originally posted by fieroguru: One of the many differences between you and I is that I have a deep respect for those who develop creative and innovative products. ........
At least I make things available AGAIN when designers flake out and decide to stop making them and leave members hanging out to dry....I invest my time and cash so people can buy these items for their Fieros again... as to respect for those who designed items..HE!! YA I respect them .... DESIGNERS at the least should offer these to other members to make OR sell their designs OR pass on the info for others to DIY instead of being selfish or disappearing forever...
(MY RANT ) I have NO quarrels with you but saying that I have no respect is a little far fetched .... you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not doing this for the money ... I still am in the RED a couple of grand for the buckets but heck I'm still making them available for members here... all you had to say is no I won't make them instead of comparing yourself to me ... I was just offering you making them because of the quality parts you make.... and not stepping on each others toes with these .... (End RANT) Danyel
EDITED. HELLL Here goes the krap again !!! .................. Members I will see if I can make these available again since MR GURU won't ....
[This message has been edited by Danyel (edited 04-18-2018).]
FieroGuru...I understand what you are saying.....But, then, basically, since Aaron has abandoned the Fiero world, you are stating that we need to just give up on this idea......That would be similar to GM building 88 front hubs, then they stop...and all 88s with bad front hubs go straight to the junkyard!
If someone can do it properly by contacting Aaron and getting his blessing (And possibly technical drawings/info) that would be great, but it is ridiculous to just say "That's it, noone may have this or build it!"
I understand your hesitancy, but the Fiero world needs this device, and if Aaron refuses to build it, and can not be contacted, I think someone, with the expertise, should go ahead and build them again.....
Well for me its a safety matter. So can someone please direct me to an alternative? I dont even know the thread sizes for my 2/4 nuts. So looking at random valves seems pointless.
At least I make things available AGAIN when designers flake out and decide to stop making them and leave members hanging out to dry....I invest my time and cash so people can buy these items for their Fieros again... as to respect for those who designed items..HE!! YA I respect them .... DESIGNERS at the least should offer these to other members to make OR sell their designs OR pass on the info for others to DIY instead of being selfish or disappearing forever...
(MY RANT ) I have NO quarrels with you but saying that I have no respect is a little far fetched .... you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not doing this for the money ... I still am in the RED a couple of grand for the buckets but heck I'm still making them available for members here... all you had to say is no I won't make them instead of comparing yourself to me ... I was just offering you making them because of the quality parts you make.... and not stepping on each others toes with these .... (End RANT) Danyel
EDITED. HELLL Here goes the krap again !!! .................. Members I will see if I can make these available again since MR GURU won't ....
we all no you have no problems copying someone else's work and claiming it as your own, see the 13" brake swap kit you ripped off of 'Guru. just because you think someone else's time, money, and effort should be shared, doesn't mean they have any requirement to do so. if you do make them, I won't buy one, and I hope others don't as well, it's not your product, you did nothing to support it, no intellectual investment, no financial investment. just talk, which is all you seem to be good for, hot air.
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Originally posted by cvxjet:
FieroGuru...I understand what you are saying.....But, then, basically, since Aaron has abandoned the Fiero world, you are stating that we need to just give up on this idea......That would be similar to GM building 88 front hubs, then they stop...and all 88s with bad front hubs go straight to the junkyard!
If someone can do it properly by contacting Aaron and getting his blessing (And possibly technical drawings/info) that would be great, but it is ridiculous to just say "That's it, noone may have this or build it!"
I understand your hesitancy, but the Fiero world needs this device, and if Aaron refuses to build it, and can not be contacted, I think someone, with the expertise, should go ahead and build them again.....
the fiero world does not NEED this device, a few people want them, and a none of them are willing to do the leg work on their own to make it happen. there are plenty of other options out there that can be used, but most fiero owners are to cheap, and/or lazy to do anything but an off the shelf $2 peel and stick upgrade(not a stab at Aaron's product as cheap). When I bought my fiero, I was intrigued by the ingenuity of the owners, the bull-dog tenacity to figure out a solution to making something work, now the vast majority want instant gratification for free, it's sad, and quite frankly, it's boring.
I'm with Guru, get a hold of Aaron if you want to make them, offer him a cut of the proceeds of the sales of HIS product. this wasn't an open source development, this was a man, a garage, a CAD program, and a desire to make his car better, that he offered to you and I to make our cars better as well.
the fiero world does not NEED this device, a few people want them, and a none of them are willing to do the leg work on their own to make it happen. there are plenty of other options out there that can be used, but most fiero owners are to cheap, and/or lazy to do anything but an off the shelf $2 peel and stick upgrade(not a stab at Aaron's product as cheap). When I bought my fiero, I was intrigued by the ingenuity of the owners, the bull-dog tenacity to figure out a solution to making something work, now the vast majority want instant gratification for free, it's sad, and quite frankly, it's boring.
I'm with Guru, get a hold of Aaron if you want to make them, offer him a cut of the proceeds of the sales of HIS product. this wasn't an open source development, this was a man, a garage, a CAD program, and a desire to make his car better, that he offered to you and I to make our cars better as well.
LOLOL as we all can see you’re still a troll $hit disturber ... maybe read the whole threadand you ‘ll still probably be in the dark. Idiot comments like yours are not needed here... as to Gurus brake kit I made it for MYSELF and my 88 since GURU wasnt making them available back then !I did not copy his as I did not have the HIS kit ... I made it designed it and my 88 has them on and working fine.. I spent 1.5 years trying to get a hold of Aaron88 and offered to pay royalties for his design. he did not answer as he left the fiero world..... you are one special character
We're better than this! If you don't support someone, don't buy their products. Very simple.
I often wonder if the people we haven't met, but get along with online, we would not in person, or the people we don't get along with online, we would in person.
FieroGuru...I understand what you are saying.....But, then, basically, since Aaron has abandoned the Fiero world, you are stating that we need to just give up on this idea......That would be similar to GM building 88 front hubs, then they stop...and all 88s with bad front hubs go straight to the junkyard!
If someone can do it properly by contacting Aaron and getting his blessing (And possibly technical drawings/info) that would be great, but it is ridiculous to just say "That's it, noone may have this or build it!"
I understand your hesitancy, but the Fiero world needs this device, and if Aaron refuses to build it, and can not be contacted, I think someone, with the expertise, should go ahead and build them again.....
All I am saying is that I will not be the one to bring this device back. If someone else chooses to, then that is their decision.
There are several other methods to accomplish the same end result w/o copying Aaron's design. The C4 world 20 years ago used to sell a stiffer spring to increase the rear brake bias, so someone could do some experimenting and source and test stiffer springs for the combo valve, as all Aaron's device does is effectively increase the spring pressure in the combo valve. Another option is to replace the combo valve. The stock Fiero one is unique in that it is the source for reduced rear line pressure, where as, nearly every other car on the road uses the physical size of the caliper pistons to make the course line pressure reduction. Switching to a different combo valve will result in more rear braking (likely too much), and then you can use nearly any one of the aftermarket rear bias adjusterd that are designed to reduce rear brake pressure. Coping Arron's design isn't needed to increase rear braking, it is merely one path to follow.
Back to your 88 front bearing scenario... yes they are needed, no they don't "need" to be copied. They can be completely redesigned so the only commonality is the bolt pattern to the upright, wheel flange offset, and wheel bolt pattern. Everything else is different. Bearing type, bearing size, bearing placement, spindle design, bearing housing, rebuild-able vs. non-rebuild-able, etc... a true re-development to address a needed product.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 04-19-2018).]
All I am saying is that I will not be the one to bring this device back. If someone else chooses to, then that is their decision.
There are several other methods to accomplish the same end result w/o copying Aaron's design. The C4 world 20 years ago used to sell a stiffer spring to increase the rear brake bias, so someone could do some experimenting and source and test stiffer springs for the combo valve, as all Aaron's device does is effectively increase the spring pressure in the combo valve. Another option is to replace the combo valve. The stock Fiero one is unique in that it is the source for reduced rear line pressure, where as, nearly every other car on the road uses the physical size of the caliper pistons to make the course line pressure reduction. Switching to a different combo valve will result in more rear braking (likely too much), and then you can use nearly any one of the aftermarket rear bias adjusterd that are designed to reduce rear brake pressure. Coping Arron's design isn't needed to increase rear braking, it is merely one path to follow.
Back to your 88 front bearing scenario... yes they are needed, no they don't "need" to be copied. They can be completely redesigned so the only commonality is the bolt pattern to the upright, wheel flange offset, and wheel bolt pattern. Everything else is different. Bearing type, bearing size, bearing placement, spindle design, bearing housing, rebuild-able vs. non-rebuild-able, etc... a true re-development to address a needed product.
Adjusting brake bias by changing springs in the stock prop valve is a time consuming and messy process. Having pulled one apart and put it back together, just getting the stock spring back in is a challenge, especially with it still on the car. I am now using a Willwood valve on my front brakes combined with a disabled stock prop valve. It does what I want it to do but I don't like the stack of adapter fittings I had to use to get everything to mate up. Aarron88's device gives a much cleaner install. And I really do not care if people think they are stepping on his toes by making and selling these. By stopping production and not offering to sell the idea to anyone and because he has neither a patent or copyright on it, he has effectively given it up to public domain. If you sold a 100 of these and he wanted a share of the profits, it wouldn't even be worth hiring a lawyer to get his share.
A few years ago I tried to Contact Aaron to get one of his adjusters.....Never heard back from him- At all!.....So I guess we should all start hacking up our brake plumbing to install a generic adjuster....This one is now.....>>>>OFFXXXXLIMITS!!!!<<<<
I did solve the problem (Basically) by changing to an 88 plug with a 87 spring....But I don't think it would be perfect nor work really well on a track.
There was that guy who had the project to produce new center console skeletons...He passed before completing the project.......That was years ago.......As our skeletons get worse, I suppose we should NEVER consider making new ones...Just rip out the center console completely and do without...
It seems to me if a person stops his project, abandons the Fiero world, we should make an effort to contact him, but that should not make it impossible to build a needed part....I even understand having a waiting period for the gentleman who passed.....But I think he would want someone to take up the skeleton project and complete it.
Nice. I sent Danyel a courtesy message, telling him I negged him for personal attacks and foul language. This is a 'family forum', after all. I get a neg back from him, and he blocks my PM response. Classic! Polite is not in your vocabulary, heh?
Nice. I sent Danyel a courtesy message, telling him I negged him for personal attacks and foul language. This is a 'family forum', after all. I get a neg back from him, and he blocks my PM response. Classic! Polite is not in your vocabulary, heh?
Yah right personal attacks.... you should of read the WHOLE thread !!! as to the NEG ...... I dont give a dam ... its people like you that makes sellers like me just wanna leave !! but then again who gives a $hit !!! Family forum hahahahaha what a F’n joke!!
Forgot to add .... looking to buy a spare brake proportioning valve for an 88... I have an 84-87 and dont want to disassemble my Automoda ... PM me... paypal standing by ......
OH by the way I dont sell Big Brake kits.... contact Fieroguru for those kits
It's between the 2 of you--nothing to do with this product. At least Joe told you what he did and why.
Danyel, I have no issue with you making this product, regardless of any physical similarities to Aaron's product. I'd probably buy one. COPYING is a different thing. I'm hoping you reproduce the functionality and the simplicity.
Personally, if I made one, I'd engrave it, to differentiate it from one made by someone else.
I am free to make a car, for example, that has 4 wheels, seats, an engine, a roof, a steering wheel, etc, and no one should sue me--unless I copy their product.
It's between the 2 of you--nothing to do with this product. At least Joe told you what he did and why....... .
I have no problem with his NEG ... when you give it for a good reason .... I don't and did NOT attack anyone in this thread .... I only defended myself of having apparently "no respect for designers" ... and copying discontinued products without permission... anyway I will NOT return to this thread .. will make a sale thread when available ... BY the way Aaron88 did not originally design these adjusters.. he adapted it to the Fiero BPCV .... Ford had something very similar for early 80's cars .... he did do a fantastic job with those .... but seems not wanting to do anything with fieros anymore...and I consider him a good friend.
EDITED. FORGOT TO ADD THIS SCREEN SHOT (don't forget to look at the time stamp) ... so all the NAH sayers will understand and shove it up their .#*$%!?#(Bleeped out since its a FAMILY FORUM apparently!!!)
[This message has been edited by Danyel (edited 04-20-2018).]
I'm sorry this has become a sore point with some. I mean no disrespect, but, my initial resistance to releasing information to allow others to produce product (should they want to) is that there are a few critically important detail that if not understood can cause failure in the rear breaking system. Anyone can take drawings to a shop and have something made, but if not made properly... I din't want to be responsible for the injury of others.
But on than note I shall release what I have developed...
To be clear: feel free to copy or reproduce.
Important notes: the design is based on the O-rings I have chosen (and spring to a lesser degree). - should someone substitute a different O-ring, please ensure that it is an EPDM (ethylene propylene diene monomer) rubber (not really rubber). And that the tolerances have been properly adjusted to allow for a seal to be maintained at 2000 psi. Note: Nitrile or rubber will disintegrate over time if exposed to DOT 3 brake fluid so definitely don't use that.
Also keep in mind that not everything that I did was captured in these drawings. Some of the procedures are based on memory and desired finish. For example the "inner seal retainer" is held in place with a defamation in the metal using a punch. Also I always added a small chamfer on one side of the ring to allow for the ring to be driven in and then a second (different chamfer) on the other end to give area for the deformation of the metal when "punched"
Hello Aaron I am happy you are still around and doing good..... I do understand the "Responsibility" that came with you making this item. I too am seriously looking at the backlash selling this item can have on me. I always wanted you to be in the loop if I ever made these items available to the members here. This is due to YOUR design and experience and it would of been the deciding factor. I am presently finishing up the 3D drawings in Fusion360 and will email you the files for your approval IF you still accept the offer I made you 2-3 years ago...
