Now that my vacation is over and I have sourced the parts needed, I am ready to make a batch of custom AC lines for running the 3800 Series 2 or 3 AC compressor in the Fiero.
If you send your Fiero hoses and 3800 hoses there will be no core charge. If I have to furnish the Fiero or 3800 aluminum sections there will be a core charge to cover that cost. If you just want basic hoses that connect the compressor to the rest of the Fiero AC system, the price will be $85 (plus applicable core) shipped in the continental USA.
Send me your aluminum sections. I'll crimp new rubber between them and send them back.
*** 9/27/15 Edit *** Changing the way I do this just a bit... 1) I am now pre-building these, that way when I get an order I can ship the same or next day. I have so many things going on right now that I can't stop everything to work on AC hoses at a moment's notice. Some people have had to wait for me to get a chance to build/send their hoses over the past year. Everyone was patient and nobody really complained but in order to send your set without delay, I'm prebuilding them now and just refunding the core charge when yours come in. Unless you specifically say so, you won't be getting back the exact cores you send me.
2) Regular PayPal fees are 2.9% + $0.30: On $175, they take out over $5.50. If you consider me to be "a friend" you can send it without a fee, otherwise these are the different payment amounts.
Set of hoses with switch port, including core charge for both ends: $180. (125+20+30+5) (This is what you will pay if I haven't received your cores yet.) Set of hoses with switch port, including core charge for Fiero end: $160. (125+30+5) Set of hoses with switch port, including core charge for 3800 end: $150. (125+20+5) Set of hoses with switch port, with no core charge: $129. (125+4)
Set of hoses without switch port, including core charge for both ends: $139. (85+20+30+4) Set of hoses without switch port, including core charge for Fiero end: $119. (85+30+4) Set of hoses without switch port, including core charge for 3800 end: $108. (85+20+3) Set of hoses without switch port, with no core charge: $88. (85+3)
As always, checks, money orders and such are still an option.
This is the way the old school swaps were done. The AC will function but not at peak efficiency. Running the compressor under this condition can cause compressor failure. The pressure switch on the accumulator/dryer will turn the compressor off if the pressure builds too high or drops too low but this is a safety switch and the operating range of the switch is higher and lower than what the system is designed to work in on a daily basis. Does this method work? Yes. Is it the best way? No. Did people run with this setup for many years? Yes. Some people who swap 3800s into other peoples' cars still do it this way today.
Over the past few years people have started wiring in the 3800's pressure sensor from the high side of the system. It is wired to the 3800 PCM and the PCM turns the compressor on and off for peak efficiency. I will also be offering custom hoses that will include a port incorporated into the High-side hose. The original pressure sensor screws onto the port and seals with an O-ring just like the 3800 did from the factory. The price for this version will be $125 (plus applicable core) shipped in the continental USA.
The core charge for the 3800 line will be $20. The core charge for the 85-88 Fiero line will be $30. 8/25/14 Update - The new fittings have finally arrived.
I can now supply these too.
If you have factory hoses that just need new rubber, I can do that for $85 shipped in the continental USA. When I priced this out before buying the crimper, NAPA would have charged ~$120 just for 2 hoses and 4 crimps.
All prices include shipping to the continental USA. Other locations can contact me for personalized quote.
Basic Fiero 3800 AC hoses - $85 Enhanced Fiero 3800 AC hoses - $125 Core charge for Fiero AC hose end - $30 Core charge for 3800 AC hose end - $20 Refurbished Fiero hoses - $85
Please post or PM if you'd like a set and say which kind you want.
<<<DISCLAIMER>>> Before you work on your AC system, please do your research and educate yourself on how to finish the job in a safe manner, in a way that will last for the long term.
Replace your expansion valve inside the orifice tube. They're available for about a dollar at any auto parts store. Anyone who works on their AC without replacing the expansion valve is wasting time and money.
If you are changing from R-12 to R-134 or if you have any reason to believe that the system has been contaminated, the dryer accumulator should be replaced prior to recharging the system.
If you have any reason to believe that the system has been contaminated, flush all components that aren't being replaced.
By selling these hoses, I'm just supplying a piece of the puzzle. Anybody that modifies a car from factory configuration by putting in an engine from another car, already has to assume responsibility for when things don't work like they did from the factory. By offering the enhanced version people have the option to incorporate the 3800's sensor into the system and let the PCM control the compressor.
I'm also working on a design to add switching into the AC line by the frame rail that will serve as a cycling switch, giving those without the PCM wiring built into their harness, the ability to cycle the compressor at lower pressures.
[This message has been edited by 2002z28ssconv (edited 09-27-2015).]
I would be interested in the sensor version. Since I have headers, can I measure the length of hose needed? I'm guessing to would need a few more inches.
I would be interested in the sensor version. Since I have headers, can I measure the length of hose needed? I'm guessing to would need a few more inches.
Thanks, Greg
Sure. These will be made on a jig so that the ends will be twisted in the correct positions. I can add a few inches in the middle, no problem.
I would be interested in the pressure switch version as well. It appears the line and hose sizes are different on the fiero and 3800 comp sides. What size hose and ferrules makes it all fit together?
Update - I did get the price quote back today but they will have to custom make the section to attach the sensor. They offered two options. One is the same price as the supplier I found earlier. The other option is $5 cheaper. I will get a sample of each and make a decision.
As of right now, I am only making the simple version until I get the parts for the enhanced version. That will hopefully be next week.
Update - I did get the price quote back today but they will have to custom make the section to attach the sensor. They offered two options. One is the same price as the supplier I found earlier. The other option is $5 cheaper. I will get a sample of each and make a decision.
As of right now, I am only making the simple version until I get the parts for the enhanced version. That will hopefully be next week.
Are the hose sizes #8 and #10 or #8 and #12 I was trying to figure that out.
I'm in need of a set as well. My car has West Coast Fiero headers and I once read somewhere that there could be a conflict between the hoses and the headers. Therefore, I'm not sure what length to use. Anyone have a clue, or the best way to measure for the correct length?
I'm in need of a set as well. My car has West Coast Fiero headers and I once read somewhere that there could be a conflict between the hoses and the headers. Therefore, I'm not sure what length to use. Anyone have a clue, or the best way to measure for the correct length?
If someone can send me a picture from under the car, I should be able to route them in a way that will miss the headers. I can also add some heat shielding material to them too. I found a supplier for that too when I was looking for the fittings.
You seem to have forgotten about the other information I provided to you. If your going to do it, do it right.
Like..
1. The orifice tube. You should change it to the correct size to work with R134 (again remember that R12 works at a diff press than R134). This helps immensely with efficiency and operation. Napa sells replacement R134 compatible orifice tubes for regular hot weather and for extreme hot weather.
2. You should also change your receiver drier (accumulator) to the more correct R134 friendly model. Not only because the desiccant is different (drier medium) it's also a reservoir for old incompatible oil that is actually taking up space that could be used for new oil and refrigerant. Napa also sells the correct receiver drier as well.
3. The correct charge of R134 . Because of the different pressures, you need to install the correct amount to realize the full potential of the system.
As a side note, I wouldn't offer the "basic" set without a disclaimer. You might be setting yourself up for potential issues. Especially if the buyer isn't aware of possible compressor failure due to the lack of a low pressure switch (as I referenced in the other thread). I do that with my fuel rails, as I cannot predict how a buyer is going to use them.
[This message has been edited by Fierofreak00 (edited 07-18-2014).]
The switch on the receiver/drier is a pressure cycling switch. If the system leaks down, that switch will prevent the compressor from running. The critical switch that is missing (at least on a 4.9 installation, using the caddy compressor) is the high pressure cutout switch. This, of course, was probably instrumental in making my high side hose blow off, coming back from Indy. Made a hell of a noise.
I am in the process of flushing/reworking my system, and plan to install a high pressure switch in the front compartment, in the high side service port next to the orifice tube. It will be wired in series with the cycling switch. Of course, the switch can also be installed in the lines, near the compressor.
The switch on the receiver/drier is a pressure cycling switch. If the system leaks down, that switch will prevent the compressor from running. The critical switch that is missing (at least on a 4.9 installation, using the caddy compressor) is the high pressure cutout switch...
You may be correct. The switch on the dryer does shut the switch off at pressures below a certain level. However I'm pretty sure that it shuts off at pressures above a certain level too. So with that said, it would be a "cycling" switch. However, my expectation is that it is a safety switch and the range is way wider than what should be seen in normal operating conditions. I will borrow a set of AC manifolds and give the pressure range that allows the compressor to be energized by just using this switch. One of my Fieros has a blocked expansion valve and shuts off soon after it is turned on because the pressure gets too high so I will be able to find this reading too.
As for an update... Each supplier, who told me they had what I was looking for, had items that were pretty close but when it came down to it they weren't 100% correct. I am having to get these custom made a couple states away. So please be patient. These WILL be made right and detailed info will be included with each set ordered. My latest supplier will get one of my spare hose ends that has the port and sensor attached to it on Monday. They will verify that the part they fabricate will allow an actual duplication of the stock 3800 setup. Once I have these in hand (hopefully mid to late next week) I will start building the hose assemblies.
Who knew a simple hose could get so complicated? All I want to do is make some hoses but with so many versions of the facts being passed around I feel it's time for me to test everything for myself. I myself am guilty of trusting what others have said and not verifying the facts for myself. For that I apologize. I believe everyone has had good intentions but that doesn't change the fact that there has been information shared that was not 100% factual. For example, the inline splice connectors that have been linked to on eBay are ALL the wrong configuration. Some are the wrong size tubing. And all listed so far have had the wrong size or type of port for the sensor to be attached to it. So if you are planning on doing this yourself, please beware of that. Likewise, the switch on the dryer does shut the compressor off at low pressure. None of this changes the fact that the best way to control the compressor is by letting the PCM do the work.
[This message has been edited by 2002z28ssconv (edited 07-19-2014).]
FF, I haven't forgotten... You do have a valid concern... So I have revised my initial post.
Good call! You can never be too safe when it comes to other peoples experience level. In the Marine Corps we had a saying, CYA...Cover Your Ass whether it be in combat or in everyday mundane things. You need to make sure you don't leave it all hanging out.. -Jason
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
Regarding the high/low pressure switches...
The switch on the receiver/drier is a pressure cycling switch. If the system leaks down, that switch will prevent the compressor from running. The critical switch that is missing (at least on a 4.9 installation, using the caddy compressor) is the high pressure cutout switch. This, of course, was probably instrumental in making my high side hose blow off, coming back from Indy. Made a hell of a noise.
I am in the process of flushing/reworking my system, and plan to install a high pressure switch in the front compartment, in the high side service port next to the orifice tube. It will be wired in series with the cycling switch. Of course, the switch can also be installed in the lines, near the compressor.
Thanks for the correction Raydar, I realize now that I had gotten the switches labeled incorrectly in my recent explanation. Honestly, I was writing off the cuff without any service information in front of me (I just looked it up to be sure ) because I wanted to get the information out there. But, I believe even with my minor mistake that my concern is still valid. In that, to have a properly operating system, you need all the correct pieces to the puzzle in play to make the system safe and operate correctly. -Jason
[This message has been edited by Fierofreak00 (edited 07-19-2014).]
Orifice tube 207311 Variable orifice tube for 95 or higher weather 207325 Accumulator (R134A compatible) 208543 Retrofit kit with oil, orings, and fittings 409995 Cycling switch (on accumulator if NOT using transducer) 207883
For an update... I am still having the adapters made. The company that will be making them has ordered the supplies but won't have any made until next week at the earliest. Sorry for the delay. I can still do the basic hose too.
Latest word today... The last supplier standing (who said they could do it cheaper too) had to pay more than expected for the materials. So they aren't able to save us any money... BUT their materials have arrived and they said that setting up the jig and getting these through their production line will take 2 weeks.
I'm getting one on Wednesday and will be sending it right out on the same day to someone who needs to have their AC up and running this weekend.
So sadly, they're not here yet... but it looks very promising that they will be really soon. Thank you for your patience.
At this time I have a couple people saying that they have a few of the stock Fiero fittings for me but I have none on hand so for now you'll need to send me yours. Post here or send a PM for payment info. I prefer PayPal but will accept other forms of payment if I need to.
[This message has been edited by 2002z28ssconv (edited 01-25-2015).]
PMs replied to... and let me add that if anybody has Fiero AC hoses, I'll buy the Fiero side pictured here for $30. . . .
Bringing this to page one for easier access: For the seals and O-rings... Just get an assortment from Autozone , Advance or O'Reileys. The packages they have here have the flat washer type for the 3800 end as well as the green O-ring type for the Fiero end. If your compressor has two different size ports (full-size cars like the Bonneville), get this one. MT2550
If your compressor has two ports of the same diameters, get this one. MT2540
For the pressure sensor, The GM part number is 13587697.
Okay, I've spent over $1,000 on parts to make these. Now that I'm spending more to buy old, used, unwanted Fiero hoses, the wife's concerned that I'm not going to make that back, so... Please help me prove her wrong.
For those needing me to furnish the fittings for either end. That's no longer a problem. I will be able to ship these as soon as Friday of this week or Tuesday of next week but the first to buy is the first that gets shipped.
Prices include shipping in the continental USA. The simple hose with no port for the sensor is $85. Add the port for the sensor for $40. The core charge for the 3800 line will be $20. The core charge for the 85-88 Fiero line will be $30.
I've been waiting on someone to make these...I will be ordering a couple sets with ports within the next couple months, just letting my bank account recover from the major summer mods
I like the idea of the hose mounted switch port. I had to buy the port nipple and aluminum braze it to the high side line as below. I know what you are saying about tooling up to make these. Just the hose crimp die set alone cost $175.00, then add the refrigerant hose, hose fittings and the hose ferrules. The first dozen or so hoses sold and you break even! Just for info. I am not selling these as I have zero time to make them for anyone else.
and yes I know that the refrigerant pressure sensor should have been on the other end but when I built the harness the connector just dropped down on that side, so I built the hose accordingly. ------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 08-27-2014).]
I have found one more variable... Some of the AC compressors have the same diameter discharge and suction ports. The fittings I have on hand have nubs that are the same diameter that fit into those ports. Now we are finding that some of the compressors have a larger diameter port on the suction side. I tried to find a suitable substitute but have yet to see anything that would work. All of the manifolds I found, that had the larger nub for the suction side, routed the lines toward the passenger side and ours need to go toward the driver side. However I have also found that if you're careful, you can get the washer seal for the larger port and it will just be loose around the smaller nub. When you bolt it onto the compressor center it up and it will still seal. If you don't want to do that, you'll need a compressor with both ports the same diameter.
[This message has been edited by 2002z28ssconv (edited 01-25-2015).]
Just giving a bump. This set is on it's way to North Florida tomorrow morning.
The pressure switch port was also included.
I only have 3 of the Fiero manifolds left so please send yours in if you order a set. They're worth $30. I only need that end, so small box shipping will be cheaper. I'll cut the remnants of the original hose and crimp sleeve off. Just leave them on there.
I also have finally gotten ahold of a car that had WCF headers. So I now have another design that will work with those. The big problem there is that the down pipe from the headers comes about 1/4" from where the stock tubes are on the driver's side frame rail. Then there's very little room between the firewall and the headers once you get to the center of the car. The hoses end up looking like S's but my WCF header edition is now ready for sale too.
Just giving a bump. This set is on it's way to North Florida tomorrow morning.
The pressure switch port was also included.
I only have 3 of the Fiero manifolds left so please send yours in if you order a set. They're worth $30. I only need that end, so small box shipping will be cheaper. I'll cut the remnants of the original hose and crimp sleeve off. Just leave them on there.
I also have finally gotten ahold of a car that had WCF headers. So I now have another design that will work with those. The big problem there is that the down pipe from the headers comes about 1/4" from where the stock tubes are on the driver's side frame rail. Then there's very little room between the firewall and the headers once you get to the center of the car. The hoses end up looking like S's but my WCF header edition is now ready for sale too.
These A/C hoses are great my chop has the WCF headers he does very nice work A+++++
------------------ 1987 FIERO GT BLACK CHOP 3.8 SWAP IN PROGRESS 1988 FIERO GT BLACK 5spd 1987 FIERO GT PEARL WHITE CHOP IN PROGRESS My build thread: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/082162.html 2002 Trans Am Ram Air 5000 miles 2014 Corvette Stingray 2007 JEEP WRANGLER 4 DOOR 2013 Mercedes C Class
I only have one more of the sections from the Fiero hose. If anyone has an old hose they aren't using, I'll make the same offer as before. Once I run out, buyers will have to send me one in order to get an AC hose made.
[This message has been edited by 2002z28ssconv (edited 05-13-2015).]
Made a hell of a noise.
You can never be too safe when it comes to other peoples experience level. In the Marine Corps we had a saying, CYA...Cover Your Ass whether it be in combat or in everyday mundane things. You need to make sure you don't leave it all hanging out.. -Jason
) because I wanted to get the information out there. But, I believe even with my minor mistake that my concern is still valid. In that, to have a properly operating system, you need all the correct pieces to the puzzle in play to make the system safe and operate correctly. -Jason
