I have tried to postpone it as long as possible but I'm afraid the time has come to seriously consider putting up a banner. The reason is that the forum is generating so much bandwidth that my ISP is no longer willing to cut me a special deal. I have been able to pay for the forum out of my own pocket up until now, but the new monthly bill simply is going to be too high for me to carry.
I'll be honest about it. The forum alone is going to cost about $1000 per month.
I have three options:
Shut down the forum. Ok, this really isn't an option but if I can't generate the funds to keep the forum up and running, I simply have no other choice...
Putting up sponsered banners. I hate banners, but since I'm just about the only forum on the net that still hasn't got any banners, it would be the best option.
Accepting donations. I don't like that option much, I'll explain why later.
One thing I will not even consider is membership-fees. So please, don't bring that up.
Ok, let me try to explain why I don't like the idea of donations. First of all, people seem to have a nasty habit of thinking that once they have made a donation, they have the right to be on this forum, or they have the right to post/do anything they want ("I've payed for it, haven't I"). So if I would accept donations, it would be totally anonymous. If you make a donation, it will not make you a special member or something.
Anyway, my original question stands: would you mind sponsored banners?
I should have been more clearer on the type of banners I was thinking about.
There will never be any popup ads. I'd rather shut down the forum than to ever allow a popup ad on the forum.
The banners will be Fiero-related. Anything other than that simply doesn't work. So it will not be those annoying banners you see on other sites, and most certainly no ****, no x10 camera, no "you are today's winner".
The banners will be non-intrusive. So non of those annyoing flashing banners.
Cliff, whatever you have to do to keep the forum going is fine by me. I would prefer it to be unobtrusive advertising without pop-ups, but if that is what I have to deal with to be able to come here, I will.
The donations idea is a good one....personally, I couldn't afford to give any money...but im sure some of the people on the forum would be more than willing to help if it came down to it. But the banner is an okay idea too. Like everyone else said....just none of those pop ups, or 'shock the monkey' thingys and its all good
I don't mind at all what you decide Cliff, I guess you have heard it about 4000 times now, but I think it is the best forum on the internet, and I would love to see it stay alive, so like I said, what ever you decide I am 100% behind you.
Cliff,It is not a matter of what we want!You pay the bills and have the right to do as you please.You are by far the most open minded and reasonable person it has been my pleasure to know.Whatever you do will be fine with me. Now for a suggestion. Charge a yearly subscription fee(nonrefundable)for anyone who wants to join the forum,give them a free trial period of one month.Have a rating system for anyone in jeopardy of losing their membership.Give the members one month(or less,like one week)to vote positive or negative on banning.If that member receives a negative vote exceeding a certain number they would be banned.Anyone who you determine is questionable would be subject to a review by their peers.That determination would then be enforced by you.If there was an immediate need for banning that would be your decision.
I just reread your opening post about no fees,but since I have already expressed my thoughts,I may as well stick by them.
[This message has been edited by hugh (edited 04-11-2002).]
Well, there are plenty of Fiero related vendors on here getting a LOT of free advertizing already. Most of us find out about them via this Forum and as they are making money from your efforts (indirectly maybe but cash is cash), have you considered something like a professional subscription say for commercial members. Otherwise if you gotta take adverts to keep this most excellent forum up and running then you have to do whatever it takes.
I don't like banners with the dumb monkey but since you plan on having them be Fiero related go for it if it keeps our playground open!! :-) hehehe I still love you cliffy!
Why not limit the bandwidth? As much as I like your allowing us to post pictures why not put a limit on it, I have no idea the amount of pictures I have posted here in the last year, if possible I link to another site but I would not be against posting limits. Even post limits on the forums would not be too bad, it would make us think before we post some of the crap that gets put on here.
Originally posted by ltlfrari: Well, there are plenty of Fiero related vendors on here getting a LOT of free advertizing already. Most of us find out about them via this Forum and as they are making money from your efforts (indirectly maybe but cash is cash), have you considered something like a professional subscription say for commercial members. Otherwise if you gotta take adverts to keep this most excellent forum up and running then you have to do whatever it takes.
Not a bad idea, maybe charge a fee for the use of the Fiero Parts Vendor section. The club I'm in has a newsletter which charges a reasonable fee for monthly ads.
Cliff, if it helps you and keeps the forum going go with banners.
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: The banners will be Fiero-related. Anything other than that simply doesn't work. So it will not be those annoying banners you see on other sites
You just might see a bidding war for the right to advertise here, as I would be more willing to make purchases from a business that supports this forum! Do it!
Cliff, do what you've got to do in order to keep your financial situation on an even keel, and hopefully the forum can continue to exist at the same time.
Also, let us know if just having the banner visibe will generate the needed revenue to keep things rolling, or whether we need to click on it when we see it in order to keep the cash heading your way - I know I'll click on whatever I need to in order to keep the ball rolling around here.
------------------ Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com 1988 Red Fiero Formula - 1st Place - Stock Coupe - FOCOSEVA 2000 - 3rd Place - Stock Formula - FOCOA Nat'l 2001 - Class Winner - 1982 to Present - Tarheel Tigers All-Pontiac Show 2001
One thing that I saw before on another site that worked great and that may work here, create a link to a banners page with about 5-8 banners on it, that way people can go to the link and click them freely when they are surfing here.
The good things about that is that they are not "forced" to click a banner, but its completely up to them if they click the banner link.
Also it does not clutter up the forum you try so hard to keep clean.
I know I would definely click the banner link when im bored here at work.
Also Im sure everyone else who cares about the forum will also.
I am with everyone else, Do it to it Cliff, And you neverknow, With this being the largest Fireo Forum on the net, you could even make a proffit off of it. (which you surely deserve)
I'd put up with just about anything for this service! Thanks for all your time, effort and $$$!!! The Fiero community already owes you a debt we couldn't begin to repay.
Is Infopop your ISP or the BBS? As a suggestion, have you discussed advertising or recognition for your ISP on the opening page for the forum? Something like a "Services provided by I-SomeStupidISPName.com". Maybe they would cut you a deal.
The banners wouldn't bother me. In fact you could even use banners that are not Fiero related directly but car related. Like places for tires or general auto parts. The annoymous donations may help too. You could set it up as an additional part. Maybe combine the donations with PFF merchandise type of thing. Say a donation of XXX amount or more and you can get a PFF T-shirt.
------------------ Happiness isn't around the corner... Happiness IS the corner.
I just joined your most excellent forum yesterday and here's my 2 cents:
1. Go ahead with the banners - it's easy enough to for us to get free banner & pop-up ad-blocker programs such as The Proxomitron ( http://www.proxomitron.cbj.net ) so you never have to see them or even know they're there, and...
2. On other forums that I am a member of they make it so you cannot post pics unless they're linked somewhere else - like your own site or in a yahoo briefcase or such. That could cut your bandwith use down considerably.
[This message has been edited by Roger That (edited 04-11-2002).]
I would prefer they be stationary banners at the top or bottom, and not the geocities type stuff, but I wouldn't mind at all if they're not Fiero-related, as long as they were clean.
I think whoever suggested the PFF merchandise was a genius! Even if you still needed banners, I'd LOVE to be able to buy PFF stuff and have it help fund continuing the forum.
Thanks again Cliff, for all you do.
------------------ []image dropped temporarilly[] TRiAD Motorsports ~ Performance Tuning of European, Japanese and Domestic Automobiles Project MR1 / Let the modding begin! ~ triadtuning@hotmail.com * AIM ~ Michael Blue 72 Only the dead have seen the end of war. ~ Plato
Cliff, I say do what you have to do. As nice as most people are on the forum, What ever you deem as "right" will go over well with them/us. I for one would hate to loose such a great forum because of $
Go for it Cliff. Anything goes as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't limit the ads to just Fiero related products - how about automotive related products? I can already see the Pontiac Vibe ad ... it would be kindof cool to have GM paying the bills for this site.
I think alot of members would also be willing to make anonymous donations - especially if is setup as a not-for-profit organization so we could write-off the contributions on our taxes. I'd rather give money to you than Uncle Sam.
Again, the banners will be Fiero-related only, and it will not be pay-per-click, but a fixed amount per month. Since I want the banners to be affordable (because I want to offer everybody that sells fiero-related stuff to have a banner) and since I really am only interested in covering the costs of the forum (no need to make money off it) I'm thinking about around $50 per month for a banner that rotates with other banners.
I will not allow "screaming" banners. In fact, I will treat banners the same way I treat messages: if I receive complaints about them, they will be removed.
Just so you know where I was thinking of placing the banners, click this link for an example page.
There's no free lunches. I would disable or severely limit (quantity AND size) the ability to upload files to your server. Out of courtesy (ok laziness is a factor too) I link to my own host and only put text on your forum.
That being said, most good forums I see are either covered with ads or funded by a business. If you only place some fixed banners you're still way ahead of the rest with all their pop-ups and other annoying ad tricks. I'd suggest you come up with some branded stuff to sell (coffee mugs, t-shirts, etc) in addition to the ads. I agree with you about the membership fees and donations too for that matter. I would anticipate that the ones that pay or donate the least will b1tch the loudest about control issues.
This may work to everyone's advantage. Giving Fiero related businesses a place to advertise on the best Fiero forum on the web would also allow the members an opportunity to find products they might not otherwise know about. It also helps Cliff pay the bills. I'm all for it!
I dont see a problem with the banners, like as others have said as long as they arent popups and annoying "shoot the monkey" type crap. Whatever u have to do to keep this place going, by all means, have at it.
------------------
Rebuilt HIPO 2.8, Zr-1 Cowl Induction Hood, 1/4 Window scoops, APR Euro Aluminum Adjustible Spoiler, Custom Blue Interior, Weight Reduction
Cliff, For the amount of good information I've recieved on this forum, and the people I've had the pleasure of meeting through this forum, a banner (or several) would be a very small price to pay to continue enjoying this place. Heck, I'd willingly cough up subscription money if you decided to go that route.
------------------ Rod Schneider, Woodstock, Ga. White 88 GT :)
It's your house, Cliff! If you want banners, put up banners, and tell anyone who disagrees to pound sand!
I like some of the other ideas about reducing bandwidth, too. Limiting uploads, requiring off-site links, and some of the other ideas mentioned are all good.
You could consider closing OT, too. That seems to be a constant source of conflict, anyway. Of course that just might bring some of that into the Fiero-related forums, which would be unfortunate.
The sample looks great! If they are Fiero (or even just automobile) related, that's even better. That would make them more informational than noise.
For donations, I saw another car forum (can't remember where) that let you make a $5 donation using paypal.
As mentioned above, you should really consider doing something about graphics files. I'd guess they make up the majority of your bandwidth. - Maybe not allow them in sigs, I know most aren't that big, but a few hundred sigs being downloaded by a few thousand people must add up. - Encourage people to link to other sites for pictures, I'm sure many don't even know how. - Maybe set up a separate area for pictures so the don't automatically get downloaded every time someone opens a thread.
Oh, and delete the Gwen thread... that should cut your bandwidth in half.
On another note, what's your mailing address for us to send in private donations Cliff?
Maybe they won't be so private due to the fact I put a return mailing label on them, but hey, too keep this place alive, if a small private contribution/donation helps, I'm all for it. Its a small price to pay for such a great forum and as we have all been taught by "Hershey's", "Big things come in small packages".
X members * $1.00 to $10.00 per member = $X dollars.
BTW, what's the exchange rate?
Banners -- Cliff, do what's you have too in order to keep this place alive if that is your wish. I've met so many wonderful Fieroites on this site, even met some in person and would like to meet more that this site would be a loss to the Fiero Community. We all know that.
AIM: Fierobaby87 
On another note, what's your mailing address for us to send in private donations Cliff?
Maybe they won't be so private due to the fact I put a return mailing label on them, but hey, too keep this place alive, if a small private contribution/donation helps, I'm all for it. 
