Sure I can... the vast majority of murders that occur are black on black... but you don't hear about any of them because the racist-liberal media doesn't care.
From your favorite site, Wikipedia:
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48% of murder or manslaughter arrests were of black individuals.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: If everyone was black, no... it would not have made the news, and Boonie would never have even heard of it.
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Originally posted by Boondawg:
You can't know that. Only I can speak for me.
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Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
1. Sure I can... 2. the vast majority of murders that occur are black on black... but you don't hear about any of them because the racist-liberal media doesn't care. 3. From your favorite site, Wikipedia:
48% of murder or manslaughter arrests were of black individuals.
and also:
94% of Black murders committed by Blacks.
1. No you can't. 2. You said I would never hear of them. You don't know that. 3. Wikipedia is not my favorite website, nor have I ever said it was.
Like I said, I can speak for myself.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-28-2012).]
As I see it from the information, the guy was protecting his own home from inside. Once you break into someones property as far as Im concerned, you lose all rights and deserve what you get. The ONLY thing I see wrong is that he didnt immediately call police and he shouldnt have moved them. I will shoot anyone coming thru my door I dont know if I can. I may not kill them but Im shooting till they stop moving or are not a threat. I dont care if its kids, girls, blacks, mexican or whites. Ones I have shot on my property were in the driveway hitching up my trailer. They were all white. Ones I held for police trying to break in a car with my shotgun were white. I went back to bed in an hour after the police left both times. The only problem I had was getting my handgun back, but I finally did when my lawyer demanded it be returned.
On a fresh note, just this morning a man and his neighbor found a man in his garage that had jacked up his car and removed the wheels. He was shot, then beaten with a tire iron in the head. Currently in intensive care and the man and his neighbor are having breakfast. Its funny how they call the thief alleged when hes caught in the act rolling the stolen tires out the door.
After the teen fell down the stairs, Smith said he shot him in the face as he lay on the floor.
"I want him dead," the complaint quoted Smith telling an investigator.
Smith said he dragged Brady's body into his basement workshop, then sat back down on his chair, and after a few minutes Kifer began coming down the stairs. He said he shot her as soon as her hips appeared, and she fell down the steps.
Smith said he tried to shoot her again with his Mini 14 rifle, but that the gun jammed and Kifer laughed at him.
"Smith stated that it was not a very long laugh because she was already hurting," according to the complaint.
Smith said he then shot Kifer in the chest several times with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to Brady, and with her still gasping for air, fired a shot under her chin "up into the cranium."
Execution... He was able to stop the threat on the first teen then proceeded to shoot him in the face as he was already on the ground. The second teen after being shot multiple times, he was able to drag her then place a gun to her chin and fire again. Yea.. must have been a real threat if your able to physically move the suspect and be close enough to place a firearm under their chin.
As I see it from the information, the guy was protecting his own home from inside. Once you break into someones property as far as Im concerned, you lose all rights and deserve what you get. The ONLY thing I see wrong is that he didnt immediately call police and he shouldnt have moved them. I will shoot anyone coming thru my door I dont know if I can. I may not kill them but Im shooting till they stop moving or are not a threat. I dont care if its kids, girls, blacks, mexican or whites. Ones I have shot on my property were in the driveway hitching up my trailer. They were all white. Ones I held for police trying to break in a car with my shotgun were white. I went back to bed in an hour after the police left both times. The only problem I had was getting my handgun back, but I finally did when my lawyer demanded it be returned.
On a fresh note, just this morning a man and his neighbor found a man in his garage that had jacked up his car and removed the wheels. He was shot, then beaten with a tire iron in the head. Currently in intensive care and the man and his neighbor are having breakfast. Its funny how they call the thief alleged when hes caught in the act rolling the stolen tires out the door.
How do you figure her breaking in gives him a right to rape her ? She broke in and got shot by the homeowner. Her tough luck...she should have looked for easier pickings for her thefts. Better yet, she should have got a job and a lawbiding bf. My youngest son (adult) got busted for drugs. He said his gf had them not him. I got him out of jail with the benefit of the doubt and told him to find new friends and dont do it again. He got busted again with the same gf. When he called for get me to get him out, told him tough luck he was on his own. He may still be there for all I know.
Excessive force was used IMO. It's one thing to neutralize someone, to go out of your way, with intent, to make sure you have killed someone is not self defense in this situation. I see him doing time. In his own words, he incriminated himself by showing his intent was to kill not to defend. For all we know, he could have invited them in, then broke out his own window to make it look like they tried to break in. I'm not saying this is what happened, but he's obviously at least a little unbalanced, how do we know he DIDN'T?
Excessive force was used IMO. It's one thing to neutralize someone, to go out of your way, with intent, to make sure you have killed someone is not self defense in this situation. I see him doing time. In his own words, he incriminated himself by showing his intent was to kill not to defend. For all we know, he could have invited them in, then broke out his own window to make it look like they tried to break in. I'm not saying this is what happened, but he's obviously at least a little unbalanced, how do we know he DIDN'T?
Sure it was excessive. But getting 12 jurors to all agree is the battle. The prosecutor, not the defense attorney, has got to hope for a change of venue to the metro/Twin Cities area of the state. That area is voicing out and rallying around/for the homeowner. They try this in any part of all white, small town, rural Minnesota and you have the makings for an acquittal or a hung jury. As for the "make it look like a break in"..... It's been CONFIRMED they burglarized another home that day. It's been CONFIRMED they were casing out another house to rob that day. The sheriff's dept is already trying to connect other burglaries TO INCLUDE Smith's previous burglary. They both headed for the basement of Smith's house. (WHERE THEY KNEW THE GUNS AND VALUABLES WERE.)
perhaps you approve of killing girls? whats your angle here?
YES if that female is breaking into or stealing from me she is making the choice to be a criminal and should die. Females commit crime as males do and can be as dangerous as a man. I do not see race or gender when it comes to people that break the law or chose to become low life scum.
YES if that female is breaking into or stealing from me she is making the choice to be a criminal and should die. Females commit crime as males do and can be as dangerous as a man. I do not see race or gender when it comes to people that break the law or chose to become low life scum.
So, stealing = death? That's not exactly an eye for an eye. What other crimes mean instant death? How about murder? If someone murders someone should they die? In my eyes, the guy murdered two people once they were no longer a threat but he continued to shoot them.
[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 11-30-2012).]
So, stealing = death? That's not exactly an eye for an eye. What other crimes mean instant death? How about murder? If someone murders someone should they die? In my eyes, the guy murdered two people once they were no longer a threat but he continued to shoot them.
We haven't heard any of the evidence as to if the first shot on each victim was a mortal wound. In that area, even if he called the abulance, would they have arrived in time before the victims bleed out?
Now I suppose we're going to hear the argument that the homeowner should have done first aid on the burglars after he shot them.
We hear the authorities scream execution because we really don't want to hear that the homeowner maybe fired extra shots because he figured they'd suffer because the ambulance wouldn't arrive in time before they bled out?
We haven't heard any of the evidence as to if the first shot on each victim was a mortal wound. In that area, even if he called the abulance, would they have arrived in time before the victims bleed out?
Now I suppose we're going to hear the argument that the homeowner should have done first aid on the burglars after he shot them.
We hear the authorities scream execution because we really don't want to hear that the homeowner maybe fired extra shots because he figured they'd suffer because the ambulance wouldn't arrive in time before they bled out?
Are you serious? He put the gun under the chin of one of them after several shots to the chest. Their deaths weren't reported until the FOLLOWING DAY. This wasn't done to ease their suffering because they wouldn't make it until the ambulace got there. Of course they weren't going to make it, he WANTED THEM DEAD and didn't report anything until the next day. I get it that you think they had it coming, but can you actually say he wasn't in the wrong as well?
...if that female is breaking into or stealing from me she is making the choice to be a criminal and should die.
You're being much too narrow in your focus. I say we should be allowed encouraged to waste cashiers (male or female) who shortchange us at the supermarket. Blow their freakin' brains out the back of their heads. That'll teach 'em.
the homeowner maybe fired extra shots because he figured they'd suffer because the ambulance wouldn't arrive in time before they bled out?
Ohhhhh, he's a humanitarian. He ends the suffering of others. He's kinda' like a Doctor...........Kevorkian. Without all that pesky consent stuff getting in the way.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-30-2012).]
We hear the authorities scream execution because we really don't want to hear that the homeowner maybe fired extra shots because he figured they'd suffer because the ambulance wouldn't arrive in time before they bled out?
It said he was shooting a .22... didn't a guy a couple months ago get shot in the chest 3 times before wrestling the gun from the assailant then drove to the hospital.... If im not mistaken a .22 is a very non deadly round unless it hit somewhere extremely vital.
You're being much too narrow in your focus. I say we should be allowed encouraged to waste cashiers (male or female) who shortchange us at the supermarket. Blow their freakin' brains out the back of their heads. That'll teach 'em.
Also a great remedy for people who don't use turn signals.
Also a great remedy for people who don't use turn signals.
Oh, for sure!
You know, I think this old man was onto something... something wonderful. There must be a whole lot of people we can blow away for some infraction or another.
I feel so freakin' empowered right now.
I wanna be important. I wanna be a tough guy. I wanna go kill somebody!!!!!!!
[EDIT] Not owning a gun, I'll have to beat someone to death with a hockey stick... but it'll be messy as hell. Oooo, macho bonus points!!!!!!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-30-2012).]
At my place, you get caught stealing ANYTHING or vandlizing, your getting shot, unless I miss (doubtful since I have laser sights). I dont even care if its inside or outside. My property is covered with keep out signs. You ignore them, you pay the price of admission. There wont be any doubt what the criminal is doing, the whole place is recorded 24/7.
At my place, you get caught stealing ANYTHING or vandlizing, your getting shot, unless I miss (doubtful since I have laser sights). I dont even care if its inside or outside. My property is covered with keep out signs. You ignore them, you pay the price of admission. There wont be any doubt what the criminal is doing, the whole place is recorded 24/7.
Shot once, or shot 37 times? If they're still moving or breathing you going to keep shooting until they're dead? Me personally, I'd give a warning shot, wound if needed. The only way kill is coming into the equation is if they have a weapon and either my life or someone I love is in danger.
Shot once, or shot 37 times? If they're still moving or breathing you going to keep shooting until they're dead? Me personally, I'd give a warning shot, wound if needed. The only way kill is coming into the equation is if they have a weapon and either my life or someone I love is in danger.
A gun is lethal force and should only be used as such, period. If you are going to pull the trigger you should only be shooting to kill. I would suggest you might consider getting an alternative defense weapon like gas or a Taser.
I am the type that almost always gives people the benefit of the doubt but somebody breaking into my home will get no such benefit. There is simply too much at stake and I think it is reasonable to expect the worst imaginable behavior form a burglar, it very often is even worse.
That was a general statement. This is a strange case.
A gun is lethal force and should only be used as such, period. If you are going to pull the trigger you should only be shooting to kill. I would suggest you might consider getting an alternative defense weapon like gas or a Taser.
I am the type that almost always gives people the benefit of the doubt but somebody breaking into my home will get no such benefit. There is simply too much at stake and I think it is reasonable to expect the worst imaginable behavior form a burglar, it very often is even worse.
That was a general statement. This is a strange case.
Yes a strange case, and telling me the only reason to own / use a gun would be to use lethal force (kill) is no less strange IMO. Honestly, I see guns as compensations for people that aren't able to handle a situation that is viewed as being beyond their control. I don't care for guns because of people thinking they're a justification for taking someone's life, an easy button. The ease with which a life is taken with them takes much of the consideration and accountability out of the equation. If a gun is not a defensive weapon, which it clearly isn't, then why do so many people have them for "self defense"?
Oh and about the "only should be used as such" comment, when was the last time you saw a LEO trained only to shoot to kill? Sorry, but it's not black and white. If a gun must be used, it should be used to immobilize first, and only used to end a life if no other course of action is possible. I agree a gun should not be used if you are not willing to use it, but using it doesn't mean eagerly killing someone. Protecting your property doesn't mean killing anyone that threatens it. This guy wasn't defending his life, he was defending his stuff. That's not worth intentionally and aggressively taking someone's life. He should go to prison. I wonder how helpless he's going to feel there without his gun to stop his stuff from being taken?
[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 12-01-2012).]
Yes a strange case, and telling me the only reason to own / use a gun would be to use lethal force (kill) is no less strange IMO. Honestly, I see guns as compensations for people that aren't able to handle a situation that is viewed as being beyond their control. I don't care for guns because of people thinking they're a justification for taking someone's life, an easy button. The ease with which a life is taken with them takes much of the consideration and accountability out of the equation. If a gun is not a defensive weapon, which it clearly isn't, then why do so many people have them for "self defense"?
Oh and about the "only should be used as such" comment, when was the last time you saw a LEO trained only to shoot to kill? Sorry, but it's not black and white. If a gun must be used, it should be used to immobilize first, and only used to end a life if no other course of action is possible. I agree a gun should not be used if you are not willing to use it, but using it doesn't mean eagerly killing someone. Protecting your property doesn't mean killing anyone that threatens it. This guy wasn't defending his life, he was defending his stuff. That's not worth intentionally and aggressively taking someone's life. He should go to prison. I wonder how helpless he's going to feel there without his gun to stop his stuff from being taken?
Again, not defending this guy! ok? get it?
You need to re read my post and the context I used the word defense. Never said anything about the only reasons to own a gun either. We are discussing the use of deadly force in a break in situation where a fire arm is concerned, not all the other reasons people may choose to “own” them..
Shoot to wound? wow, sounds like an old western movie. We have a very very different view of fire arms and the realistic application in which they can be used.
You never shoot to wound. You might shoot a warning shot under certain circumstances. That one time I shot at the guys stealing the trailer, I unloaded the whole clip. Unfortunately with a 9mm pistol, they were too far away to hit. I told the cops I shot till I ran out of bullets. Ironic that I didnt have any problem shooting at them numerous times, but if Id fired a warning shot, Id have gotten fined for discharging a gun within city limits. All they did was take my gun for a few months, collect the casings and get a report. Now with a better gun, I wouldnt miss as easily. If you do choose to shoot, you dont want to leave him to testify against you. The media will always be on the side of the ' poor victim ' that got shot. How many times have you heard of a burglar shot in the commission of a crime and wins a lawsuit against the person who shot him ?
You dont know who is armed and who is not unless they shoot first. I prefer to be the first one because you might not get a chance waiting to find out. Pretty much think its not a stretch to assume a criminal in a criminal act may be armed. I will agree if they find a weapon on him, you do look better. I dont even make the distinction that if Im attacked by a guy with a knife, im overdoing it using a gun.
Theres a lot more dead unarmed than ones that are.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 12-02-2012).]
I always thought you couldn't shoot an unarmed man.
It comes down to what is considered a threat.
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One of the first things we learned was how to take a gun away from someone. You would be surprised at how easy it was. The last thing an "unarmed person" is going to do is get close enough to me to have a chance to turn my own weapon against me. Did you know that someone with a screw driver in his hand can close 7 feet faster than you can bring up your gun and shoot him.
If I ran at you as fast as I could from 7 feet and stuck something 4 inches long into your face I wouldn't have any problems grabbing your gun and jerking it as high as I could then pulling it down as hard as I could breaking your grip and trigger finger as I twist it back in your direction. Should you manage to pull the trigger the odds would be in my favor at that point. Sure I may get hit but you have a screw driver sticking out of you and I have my hands on your weapon and after the first shot you are in no condition to shoot me again. Lets say you have me standing with my hands up. I start talking to you and pull my arms down so my elbows are bent. As soon as you are close enough I will make my move grabbing your gun and jerking it as high as I could then pulling it down as hard as I could breaking your grip and trigger finger as I twist it back in your direction.
If I am prepared to take you out then who would win this? Most home owners are not prepared to do what it takes. They think the threat of a gun will be enough. It is not, someone that has entered your house has made up his mind that he is doing something wrong, they have already crossed the line and will not think about hurting you to get away. That advantage is enough that you will lose.
I have opened my door and had 2 - 3 minute conversations with people and they had no clue I was armed. (not a gun) so I wouldn't trust anyone to not have a weapon or worse not to over power me and take mine.
I know you want to see the good in everyone and want to trust that they will do the right thing. I do just the opposite and trust that in a jam someone is going to do what ever they can to get them out of it. Best thing you can do is remove the threat and call for help but always be prepared to defend and if needed hurt someone that feels the only way out is to hurt you.
You have heard several times that a dead man cant sue you, well someone entering your home is thinking the same thing. A dead witness is a bad witness.
For the record if he shot the person laying on the floor gasping for breath then he should be put in jail. If he waited a full day after the threat was over to call for help he should be put in jail. If he wounded someone and after the threat was over didn't render assistance and or at least call for help he should be put in jail. Someone laying on the floor gasping for breath is someone you can get away from and call for help. I think it was a revenge killing myself from the description of how he shot from below the chin.
[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 12-02-2012).]
You never shoot to wound. You might shoot a warning shot under certain circumstances. That one time I shot at the guys stealing the trailer, I unloaded the whole clip. Unfortunately with a 9mm pistol, they were too far away to hit. I told the cops I shot till I ran out of bullets. Ironic that I didnt have any problem shooting at them numerous times, but if Id fired a warning shot, Id have gotten fined for discharging a gun within city limits. All they did was take my gun for a few months, collect the casings and get a report. Now with a better gun, I wouldnt miss as easily. If you do choose to shoot, you dont want to leave him to testify against you. The media will always be on the side of the ' poor victim ' that got shot. How many times have you heard of a burglar shot in the commission of a crime and wins a lawsuit against the person who shot him ?
So, will wherever you're moving to be this open about gunplay? How's that going btw, anyone showing interest in buying your place?
**edit** how did you miss with laser sights? How far away were they?
[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 12-02-2012).]
Oh and about the "only should be used as such" comment, when was the last time you saw a LEO trained only to shoot to kill? Sorry, but it's not black and white.
Huh? Law enforcement training must have really changed over the past 25 years since I got my Criminal Justice degree.
Can you cite something to back up this statement you made? A LEO is trained to shoot to stop the threat....Center mass. More than one round. If the criminal dies...threat stopped. If the criminal lives... threat stopped.
Right, wrong or indifferent, Mr Smith will likely walk away from this a free man. Either by a hung jury or an acquittal. The only way this man is doing prison time is if they lessen the charges from second degree murder or if the jury can find him guilty of a lesser charge.
So, will wherever you're moving to be this open about gunplay? How's that going btw, anyone showing interest in buying your place?
**edit** how did you miss with laser sights? How far away were they?
Ive been down to check things out last week. Already got my satellite tv equip. Already changed banks. Yes, you have to register a gun. You cant take yours there with you. The only law is you HAVE to buy any guns there (supports the economy I guess) and any you bring into the country will be confiscated. You can carry open or concealed. Property is basicly 'Texas' law, but unless you go into areas of the biggest cities theres not much crime at all. Those areas are worse than Detroit or DC. but I have no need to go there. A lot of the houses dont even have window glass. Since you dont need AC, everywhere is screened.
I missed with a 9 mm handgun from prob 100'...which is the reason I have laser sights NOW. The 9mm was my only gun at the time. Now I also have a carbine and 12 gauge.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 12-02-2012).]
After repeated break-ins to his home and his adjacent property throughout that fall, Smith set up an ambush, the prosecutor argued.
...and they walked right into it. Now it's a crime to be smarter than the criminals.
Sometimes, people just get tired of being the victim time after time, and having the law do nothing, time after time. Pretty soon, you would have to feel pretty helpless, I would think.
I wonder how many people of the defendant's age were on that jury. That would be some interesting info.
Edit - Didn't listen to the recording. If he's crazy and guilty, so be it. Just speaking from the point of view of someone who isn't quite so young any more.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 04-29-2014).]
First off, I need to make it clear that I own firearms and I would also shoot some one breaking into my house.
Having said that, there are several items in this story I find worthy of comment. Point #1 is that the home owner reportedly had 8 breakins but there was only 1 burglary report? Does that sound normal to anyone here? Point #2 is that the shooter in this case shot the first intruder before he could see above the individuals's waist. Personally, I would have waited until I could at least see the intruder's hands to determine if there was indeed a threat. Point #3, the police weren't called until the next day (After the home owner had asked a friend for a lawyer reccomendation). Point #4, obviously, the home owner had more than enough time to stage the crime scene and this scene has to be considered as suspect because of the time frame we are talking about. Point #5. Was he the only one in the neighborhood that night? Did none of his neighbors hear the gunshots?
My take on this at the moment is that until evidence to the contrary is developed, the homeowner crossed the line and is in the correct location ( a jail cell).
Looks like my comments are a little bit late here. I guess this will teach me to check the dates when I respond.
[This message has been edited by J-Holland (edited 04-30-2014).]
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