I saw in another thread how people identified themselves with a certain flavor of political parties. That saddens me. The old gang "click" mentality. Animal pack stuff. When George Washington helped win the American Revolution, he was offered kingship. That was the familiar political model. He recognized the perils of such rule and declined. When he did, opting for the choice of the people, he also warned us about political parties. He was a wise man. I would like to talk about how to fix America, for a better America. Specifically, I am interested in the mechanics, not issues. I do though welcome your comments on if a cowboy can marry his horse, fluoride being an aphrodisiac, or other such nonsense that will do nothing to fix America. I am likely to do the same. Rebuttals to suggestions are also encouraged. We need a conversation. America needs fixing. We are at a tipping point. "A house divided can not stand". Political polarization is at an all time high and is not going to get better. Citizens are again thinking and speaking of secession. Things could get ugly ... uglier. We here can come together, whether a D, an R, or an I. We give government power over us, yet we are supposed to tell it how to use it. We can see the failures into how government progressed. What do you see wrong, and how should we fix it ? I will start with two hallmarks of our existence. Voting and taxation.
Voting and campaigning: Senators are being bought off for votes on Riders. For this reason any representative's constituent should be able to vote forcing the representative to vote for his people. If he needs to be sold (or bought) the constituents need to be sold or bought. Especially if the bill does not affect us. Which further makes voter ID necessary. Term limits are needed. America already realized this when they limited Presidential terms. It needs to extend to Congress also. Fifty years of political family dynasty is akin to kingship. It creates a power vacuum of new ideas. A voter ID should be mandatory. Both sises of the isle have been harmed by elections being stolen. Dead people voting, multiple votes, fake citizens. All threaten our election process. Equal representation also needs to be addressed. No more of the big cities dictating the wishes of a whole state. Perhaps the Electoral College set up needs to be revisited. Political affiliations should be banned from the ballots. People should know who they are voting for, not a political ideological promise. Many good candidates which both sides can like have to pick a side to even get on the ballot. The Independents, the Libertarians, the Green Party, even the Socialist and Communist leaning people, all have to masquerade as a D or R which confuses those that don't want that. Political parties should be abolished. There should not be war chests of money to help sway weak candidates into office, only to gain political party strength. Which brings me to campaign financing. No one should be able to outspend another. Why does our President (who can't even be re-elected) keep using taxpayer money, Air Force One, and his bully pulpit to campaign ... for more money. If anything, the money a President can raise should go into the Treasury. Related to campaigning, the raising of political ideologies in educational settings must be abolished. Shaping young minds with ideological dogma (thanks rayb) is accomplished with propaganda. In effect, it is brainwashing. Colleges, like was required by the media, should be required to provide equal representation of all ideas.
Taxation : Sin taxes/social engineering The IRS needs to go. It has become a joke. Not only has it been used, past and present, to target political enemies, it's morass is beyond comprehension. The Internal Revenue code is seven times the length of the Bible, twice the length of Tolstoy's "War and Peace". The federal tax code with its 44,000 pages, 5.5 million words, and 721 different forms is a patchwork maze of complexity and a testament to confusion over common sense. Even our Secretary of the Treasury, Timothy "Turbo Tax" Geither, who oversees the IRS, could not figure out how to do his taxes. Americans are forced to go to accountants to get their taxes done. By the way, if you go to the US Government Printing Office ( www.gpo.gov ), you can order a complete set of Title 26 of the US Code of Federal Regulations (that's the part written by the IRS), all twenty volumes of it, at the bargain price of $974, shipping included. According to the US Government Printing Office, it's 13,458 pages in total. The full text of Title 26 of the United States Code (the part written by Congress--available for an additional $179) is a mere 3,387 printed pages, bringing the adjusted gross page count to 16,845. That $1,153.00 dollar tax code will only be good for one year as it grows in length every year. Lobbyists are always bribing our lawmakers for special loopholes. Politicians use it to to win votes. The "customer service we get from the IRS is horrendous. It is an agency which strikes fear into citizens. It dictates deadlines and we have recently seen they can not meet those required of them. Any monies owed past due, interest is charged daily, something private entities are prohibited by law from doing. Houses and properties can be seized, bank accounts confiscated, and wages garnished. To defend one's self from the IRS can cost thousands. Something different needs to be done. A flat tax or a fair tax I would have to think about.
Fiscal accountability. I want to see a balanced budget amendment, and the auditing of the Federal Reserve.
Governing and serving : Checks and balances. Since we are empowering political parties, no party should have a majority (Congress). Working for the government is not a right. It is a privilege we the voters grant certain people (even if by proxy). Just as licensed driving is a right, requiring people to involuntarily give up their Fifth Amendment rights, government workers should be required to do the same. If they plead the Fifth they should relinquish their jobs and be prohibited from working for the government or in any position with a private company which deals with the government. It's about accountability. End runs around Congress need to stop. A President using his departments to make rules at his whim is wrong. All rules should need Congressional approval. The existence of a Department should not be "forever". They should be subject to regular cost/benefit analysis. Our Dept. of Education has spent billions and test scores are down. I concede a President the power to nominate a department head, which has to be approved by Congress, but I think they are accountable to Congress. That Congress can fire them, via the same confirmation rules. I want an end to "riders" on proposed legislation. A bill should be able to stand on it's own. I am tired of Congressional vote buying by promising pork to another's district/state. Our forefather's realization that a separation of powers is needed is as true today as then. That separation has become muddied.
Transparency. Officials should be required to report to the people regularly and for a set amount of time. Be required to answer, at the very least, a specific amount of questions. No more bloviating to fulfill the appearance of answering to the people. Every press outlet should receive the same amount of time. No more picking "friendly audience" press outlets to carry their water. The so called "news conferences", where the press is granted the favor of asking questions, should be required to take regular "Joe the Plumber " questions. I know everybody in America can not ask at the same time but I believe a method could be worked out. We can even create a Dept. of Citizens, . It really is not a bad idea. Many police internal review boards have had to include regular citizens. Speeches. I would ban them being done with the "backdrop pawns" which are used to bolster a politician's point. A speech should also stand on it's own. A speech should never be a lecture. It should require a follow up with it's merits being questioned, in just a public bully pulpit as of which the speech was given in. At a later date, as a speech is a prepared remark(s).
Unions in government This is all kinds of wrong. A mini government within our government, ? Government exists to protect the rights of all people. Why do we need an entity to operate within our government which seeks to carve out it's own rights ?
Lobbyists Our Constitution granted us the right to redress(?) our government. By lobby is an effective method. Cash prostitutes that procedure. Redress should be done by person, not by hired gun. Granted, spokespersons are a natural and logically effective method to streamline a process but cash prostitute it. I say no ex government worker should lobby until after five years of employment. I not a genius. I realize some of my thoughts would/may not be feasible, or have unintended consequences, or likely don't go far enough. I would like to hear your thoughts.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 07-02-2013).]
Originally posted by cliffw: . I realize some of my thoughts would/may not be feasible, or have unintended consequences, or likely don't go far enough. I would like to hear your thoughts.
The ideas seem logical (I could get behind all of them), but also very simplistic. I think that in the working world, things are much more complicated. Humans taint everything they touch.
They certainly do. We need a government that has some kind of checks and balances built in to help prevent any one person or group from having too much power.
there is alot of good reasons for them - there are also bad reasons. I am sure Gary Johnson is having his second thoughts on this. great representative. term limits puts him out the door.
but - yes - cronyism, lazy voter mantality, and entrenching...I am divided on term limits.
I believe we need to have Congress stop policing themselves. What good does it do when you have the criminals decide if they've done anything wrong or not? As long as they make their own rules, the will of the people will never be followed in my opinion.
I agree with all of it. Term limits is a sticky one for me. I can see both sides of that but at this time I think it would solve more problems and limiting my choice is a price I would pay.
I would vey much like to see an immediate end to any and all retirement benefits or special rules for medical INS for the senate and congress and president.
Did you write this all out or is this a cut and paste from an article?
Voting and campaigning: Term limits are needed. America already realized this when they limited Presidential terms. It needs to extend to Congress also. Fifty years of political family dynasty is akin to kingship. It creates a power vacuum of new ideas.
I agree completely, for both elected and appointed offices, including the Supreme Court.
quote
A voter ID should be mandatory. Both sises of the isle have been harmed by elections being stolen. Dead people voting, multiple votes, fake citizens. All threaten our election process.
I think on this level that simpler would be better. Remove the ID demand, and simply have people dip their fingers in indelible ink like they do in other corrupt countries.
quote
Equal representation also needs to be addressed. No more of the big cities dictating the wishes of a whole state. Perhaps the Electoral College set up needs to be revisited.
I think that if a City gets to a certain size that they should automatically split into their own "State" of sorts, so their decisions (politically) do not effect the State they were a part of.
quote
Political affiliations should be banned from the ballots. People should know who they are voting for, not a political ideological promise. Many good candidates which both sides can like have to pick a side to even get on the ballot. The Independents, the Libertarians, the Green Party, even the Socialist and Communist leaning people, all have to masquerade as a D or R which confuses those that don't want that. Political parties should be abolished. There should not be war chests of money to help sway weak candidates into office, only to gain political party strength.
Just label the people running alphabetically and ignore their affiliations? Or ban them all together?
quote
Which brings me to campaign financing. No one should be able to outspend another. Why does our President (who can't even be re-elected) keep using taxpayer money, Air Force One, and his bully pulpit to campaign ... for more money. If anything, the money a President can raise should go into the Treasury.
I'm not sure how one would fix this problem.
quote
Related to campaigning, the raising of political ideologies in educational settings must be abolished. Shaping young minds with ideological dogma (thanks rayb) is accomplished with propaganda. In effect, it is brainwashing. Colleges, like was required by the media, should be required to provide equal representation of all ideas.
Another one that should be easy to fix. But I have no idea how. Some of the ideals taught in School are appalling to me.
quote
Taxation : The IRS needs to go. It has become a joke. Not only has it been used, past and present, to target political enemies, it's morass is beyond comprehension. The Internal Revenue code is seven times the length of the Bible, twice the length of Tolstoy's "War and Peace". The federal tax code with its 44,000 pages, 5.5 million words, and 721 different forms is a patchwork maze of complexity and a testament to confusion over common sense. Even our Secretary of the Treasury, Timothy "Turbo Tax" Geither, who oversees the IRS, could not figure out how to do his taxes. Americans are forced to go to accountants to get their taxes done. By the way, if you go to the US Government Printing Office ( www.gpo.gov ), you can order a complete set of Title 26 of the US Code of Federal Regulations (that's the part written by the IRS), all twenty volumes of it, at the bargain price of $974, shipping included. According to the US Government Printing Office, it's 13,458 pages in total. The full text of Title 26 of the United States Code (the part written by Congress--available for an additional $179) is a mere 3,387 printed pages, bringing the adjusted gross page count to 16,845. That $1,153.00 dollar tax code will only be good for one year as it grows in length every year. Lobbyists are always bribing our lawmakers for special loopholes. Politicians use it to to win votes. The "customer service we get from the IRS is horrendous. It is an agency which strikes fear into citizens. It dictates deadlines and we have recently seen they can not meet those required of them. Any monies owed past due, interest is charged daily, something private entities are prohibited by law from doing. Houses and properties can be seized, bank accounts confiscated, and wages garnished. To defend one's self from the IRS can cost thousands. Something different needs to be done. A flat tax or a fair tax I would have to think about.
I'm for a Sale tax based plan where we would no longer be taxed based on what we earn, but what we spend. It would eliminate other issues as well since the people who are currently dodging taxes would then be paying when they purchased things.
quote
Fiscal accountability. I want to see a balanced budget amendment, and the auditing of the Federal Reserve.
quote
Governing and serving : Working for the government is not a right. It is a privilege we the voters grant certain people (even if by proxy). Just as licensed driving is a right, requiring people to involuntarily give up their Fifth Amendment rights, government workers should be required to do the same. If they plead the Fifth they should relinquish their jobs and be prohibited from working for the government or in any position with a private company which deals with the government. It's about accountability.
I like this a lot.
quote
End runs around Congress need to stop. A President using his departments to make rules at his whim is wrong. All rules should need Congressional approval. The existence of a Department should not be "forever". They should be subject to regular cost/benefit analysis. Our Dept. of Education has spent billions and test scores are down. I concede a President the power to nominate a department head, which has to be approved by Congress, but I think they are accountable to Congress. That Congress can fire them, via the same confirmation rules. I want an end to "riders" on proposed legislation. A bill should be able to stand on it's own. I am tired of Congressional vote buying by promising pork to another's district/state. Our forefather's realization that a separation of powers is needed is as true today as then. That separation has become muddied.
I would like to add. Government pay: Everyone working for the Federal Government in any aspect elected, or hired should be paid the average of what all non-Government workers in the country make (not in their field, everyone from ditch diggers to Doctors.) Insurance for all of them from the top to the bottom should be Medicare/Medicaid (I never know which is which.) It's called a "Public Servant" for a reason, change the reason for taking the position from making a lot of money, to actually caring about their jobs.
quote
Transparency. Officials should be required to report to the people regularly and for a set amount of time. Be required to answer, at the very least, a specific amount of questions. No more bloviating to fulfill the appearance of answering to the people. Every press outlet should receive the same amount of time. No more picking "friendly audience" press outlets to carry their water. The so called "news conferences", where the press is granted the favor of asking questions, should be required to take regular "Joe the Plumber " questions. I know everybody in America can not ask at the same time but I believe a method could be worked out. We can even create a Dept. of Citizens, . It really is not a bad idea. Many police internal review boards have had to include regular citizens. Speeches. I would ban them being done with the "backdrop pawns" which are used to bolster a politician's point. A speech should also stand on it's own. A speech should never be a lecture. It should require a follow up with it's merits being questioned, in just a public bully pulpit as of which the speech was given in. At a later date, as a speech is a prepared remark(s).
I don't really have an opinion on this since I think that the speeches don't matter.
quote
Unions in government This is all kinds of wrong. A mini government within our government, ? Government exists to protect the rights of all people. Why do we need an entity to operate within our government which seeks to carve out it's own rights ?
I agree. Nothing more to add.
quote
Lobbyists Our Constitution granted us the right to redress(?) our government. By lobby is an effective method. Cash prostitutes that procedure. Redress should be done by person, not by hired gun. Granted, spokespersons are a natural and logically effective method to streamline a process but cash prostitute it. I say no ex government worker should lobby until after five years of employment. I not a genius. I realize some of my thoughts would/may not be feasible, or have unintended consequences, or likely don't go far enough. I would like to hear your thoughts.
I'm not sure what to do about lobbying. I think at the very least it should be made more transparent. Perhaps since we are all "shareholders" in this Country we should get a Quarterly report regarding different aspects of the Government. I'm not sure how it would be done, but that's why I make the little bucks.
Everyone working for the Federal Government in any aspect elected, or hired should be paid the average of what all non-Government workers in the country make (not in their field, everyone from ditch diggers to Doctors.)
NO.
Insurance for all of them from the top to the bottom should be Medicare/Medicaid (I never know which is which.)
Other than some of the analogies and metaphors being a stretch, I can't say I disagree with too much. None of the problems are insurmountable, they just have to take action. Therein lies the problem. How do we get a large group of people to actually sit down and take action.
Originally posted by Fats: Any reasons as to why you disagree or is this just a NO and run?
Brad
Government employees should not receive privileges that put them above the private sector, but at the same time, no one should be penalized for choosing to work for a government agency instead of the private sector.
So I am on board with what you said about Medicare (and by logical extension, Obamacare). But it doesn't make any sense to me that a person who seeks employment from a government agency should have to consider some average salary (averaged from all trades and professions) instead of a competitive, market-determined salary that is appropriate for their individual skills and education, and proportioned to the particular responsibilities that they would be expected to discharge in their prospective position with the government. That would be penalizing a person for considering government instead of the private sector. It would also be without precedent---and completely impractical.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 06-20-2013).]
Government employees should not receive privileges that put them above the private sector, but at the same time, no one should be penalized for choosing to work for a government agency instead of the private sector.
So I am on board with what you said about Medicare (and by logical extension, Obamacare).
I don't think that is a logical extension since the "affordable healthcare act" (Obamacare) is not medical coverage, but an act.
quote
But it doesn't make any sense to me that a person who seeks employment from a government agency should have to consider some average salary (averaged from all trades and professions) instead of a competitive, market-determined salary that is appropriate for their individual skills and education, and proportioned to the particular responsibilities that they would be expected to discharge in their prospective position with the government. That would be penalizing a person for considering government instead of the private sector. It would also be unheard of and completely impractical.
Average doesn't penalize people. Average is better than half (on average) of America is doing at any given time. The better the economy does, the more workers would get paid. Every Government worker would have a legitimate reason to help a person get off of Welfare, teach students better so that they make more money, keep areas from degrading and losing money. It would basically be incentive to do better on a mass scale, and to get rid of the non-performers in the Government sector.
I forgot to add earlier, all Military personal should get 1.5 times the average non-Government workers income, and 2 times for Hazard pay.
Some things that used to be unheard of are common place today. I for one have no problem seeing a girl in a tight pair of jeans, 30 years ago seeing that would be unheard of. Today you don't see a girl without skin tight jeans.
Government employees should not receive privileges that put them above the private sector, but at the same time, no one should be penalized for choosing to work for a government agency instead of the private sector.
So I am on board with what you said about Medicare (and by logical extension, Obamacare). But it doesn't make any sense to me that a person who seeks employment from a government agency should have to consider some average salary (averaged from all trades and professions) instead of a competitive, market-determined salary that is appropriate for their individual skills and education, and proportioned to the particular responsibilities that they would be expected to discharge in their prospective position with the government. That would be penalizing a person for considering government instead of the private sector. It would also be without precedent---and completely impractical.
Government salaries are NOT market-determined. Tragedy of the Commons.
Government salaries are NOT market-determined. Tragedy of the Commons.
I took it to mean that he thought that Government employee's salaries should be based on markets. Which could work, but the majority of Government workers don't really have other markets to base their pay on. For instance, what market matches a worker at the Social Security office? What market could we use to base the pay of a Congressman? Some Government jobs are like no other. Heck, teachers would even be difficult to do this to, since the vast majority of them are Government workers.
What market could we use to base the pay of a Congressman? Brad
There isn't one. Therefore it would be determined arbitrarily and probably very high. Whether it was the president that determined it or people voted on it, it's still the Tragedy of the Commons because they aren't paying the salary. Well maybe 2e-8 percent. Not enough to alter their decision.
EDIT: Fixed my horrible grammar.
[This message has been edited by NoMoreRicers (edited 06-20-2013).]
Government salaries are NOT market-determined. Tragedy of the Commons.
They should be in line with private sector jobs because you want to be able to get qualified people to take the jobs. They shouldn't pay markedly more, or less, than a comparable private sector job, IMO.
(this is for Civil Service jobs that have a comparable private sector counterpart. Political jobs, such as Congress, are another matter.)
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 06-20-2013).]
Originally posted by Fats: Some things that used to be unheard of are common place today. I for one have no problem seeing a girl in a tight pair of jeans, 30 years ago seeing that would be unheard of. Today you don't see a girl without skin tight jeans. Brad
Wow, where were you in the 60's and 70's?. I remember Rowan and Martin's Laugh In back in the mid 60's and a very sexy Goldie Hawn dancing around to that evil rock and roll. Hee Haw in the 70's etc... 30 years ago was only 1983. Heh, but I do get your point.
Voting and campaigning: Term limits are needed. America already realized this when they limited Presidential terms. It needs to extend to Congress also. Fifty years of political family dynasty is akin to kingship. It creates a power vacuum of new ideas. A voter ID should be mandatory. Both sises of the isle have been harmed by elections being stolen. Dead people voting, multiple votes, fake citizens. All threaten our election process. Equal representation also needs to be addressed. No more of the big cities dictating the wishes of a whole state. Perhaps the Electoral College set up needs to be revisited. Political affiliations should be banned from the ballots. People should know who they are voting for, not a political ideological promise. Many good candidates which both sides can like have to pick a side to even get on the ballot. The Independents, the Libertarians, the Green Party, even the Socialist and Communist leaning people, all have to masquerade as a D or R which confuses those that don't want that. Political parties should be abolished. There should not be war chests of money to help sway weak candidates into office, only to gain political party strength. Which brings me to campaign financing. No one should be able to outspend another. Why does our President (who can't even be re-elected) keep using taxpayer money, Air Force One, and his bully pulpit to campaign ... for more money. If anything, the money a President can raise should go into the Treasury. Related to campaigning, the raising of political ideologies in educational settings must be abolished. Shaping young minds with ideological dogma (thanks rayb) is accomplished with propaganda. In effect, it is brainwashing. Colleges, like was required by the media, should be required to provide equal representation of all ideas.
I don't have an opinion on term limits for Congress. I can see positives and negatives to them. I agree voter ID should be mandatory. There are no legitimate arguments for otherwise. I think the Electoral College needs to be revisited, but not done away with. I used to have an idea for how to fix it... can't think of it right now. I'll edit this statement if I remember my thought. Political affiliations should be barred from ballots, but political parties should not be abolished. People have the right to organize under specific ideas and create a more powerful force. However, third parties need better access to the presidential debates. The percentage rule that is in place now is all but impossible to overcome given that third parties don't have a voice in the first place. People should be able to raise and spend money as they will. If people willingly donate I have no problem with campaign funds. On education: Who is to decide which ideas to be presented? You say all ideas. What if they have no merit? By college time, students can think for themselves.
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Taxation : The IRS needs to go. It has become a joke. Not only has it been used, past and present, to target political enemies, it's morass is beyond comprehension. The Internal Revenue code is seven times the length of the Bible, twice the length of Tolstoy's "War and Peace". The federal tax code with its 44,000 pages, 5.5 million words, and 721 different forms is a patchwork maze of complexity and a testament to confusion over common sense. Even our Secretary of the Treasury, Timothy "Turbo Tax" Geither, who oversees the IRS, could not figure out how to do his taxes. Americans are forced to go to accountants to get their taxes done. By the way, if you go to the US Government Printing Office ( www.gpo.gov ), you can order a complete set of Title 26 of the US Code of Federal Regulations (that's the part written by the IRS), all twenty volumes of it, at the bargain price of $974, shipping included. According to the US Government Printing Office, it's 13,458 pages in total. The full text of Title 26 of the United States Code (the part written by Congress--available for an additional $179) is a mere 3,387 printed pages, bringing the adjusted gross page count to 16,845. That $1,153.00 dollar tax code will only be good for one year as it grows in length every year. Lobbyists are always bribing our lawmakers for special loopholes. Politicians use it to to win votes. The "customer service we get from the IRS is horrendous. It is an agency which strikes fear into citizens. It dictates deadlines and we have recently seen they can not meet those required of them. Any monies owed past due, interest is charged daily, something private entities are prohibited by law from doing. Houses and properties can be seized, bank accounts confiscated, and wages garnished. To defend one's self from the IRS can cost thousands. Something different needs to be done. A flat tax or a fair tax I would have to think about.
Yep, the IRS needs to go. I am in favor of either all sales tax or a very low flat tax, with a higher sales tax.
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Fiscal accountability. I want to see a balanced budget amendment, and the auditing of the Federal Reserve.
Governing and serving : Working for the government is not a right. It is a privilege we the voters grant certain people (even if by proxy). Just as licensed driving is a right, requiring people to involuntarily give up their Fifth Amendment rights, government workers should be required to do the same. If they plead the Fifth they should relinquish their jobs and be prohibited from working for the government or in any position with a private company which deals with the government. It's about accountability. End runs around Congress need to stop. A President using his departments to make rules at his whim is wrong. All rules should need Congressional approval. The existence of a Department should not be "forever". They should be subject to regular cost/benefit analysis. Our Dept. of Education has spent billions and test scores are down. I concede a President the power to nominate a department head, which has to be approved by Congress, but I think they are accountable to Congress. That Congress can fire them, via the same confirmation rules. I want an end to "riders" on proposed legislation. A bill should be able to stand on it's own. I am tired of Congressional vote buying by promising pork to another's district/state. Our forefather's realization that a separation of powers is needed is as true today as then. That separation has become muddied.
Things just need to be refined and enforced. There is a good separation of powers, but through the years people have found "loopholes" that nobody argues with.
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Transparency. Officials should be required to report to the people regularly and for a set amount of time. Be required to answer, at the very least, a specific amount of questions. No more bloviating to fulfill the appearance of answering to the people. Every press outlet should receive the same amount of time. No more picking "friendly audience" press outlets to carry their water. The so called "news conferences", where the press is granted the favor of asking questions, should be required to take regular "Joe the Plumber " questions. I know everybody in America can not ask at the same time but I believe a method could be worked out. We can even create a Dept. of Citizens, . It really is not a bad idea. Many police internal review boards have had to include regular citizens. Speeches. I would ban them being done with the "backdrop pawns" which are used to bolster a politician's point. A speech should also stand on it's own. A speech should never be a lecture. It should require a follow up with it's merits being questioned, in just a public bully pulpit as of which the speech was given in. At a later date, as a speech is a prepared remark(s).
Reputable news organizations should be allowed in press conferences, bar none. The whole "You can come in if you don't ask me about this, this, or this" is ridiculous. But speeches I don't care about. Speeches should, however, be delivered by the writer.
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Unions in government This is all kinds of wrong. A mini government within our government, ? Government exists to protect the rights of all people. Why do we need an entity to operate within our government which seeks to carve out it's own rights ?
Lobbyists Our Constitution granted us the right to redress(?) our government. By lobby is an effective method. Cash prostitutes that procedure. Redress should be done by person, not by hired gun. Granted, spokespersons are a natural and logically effective method to streamline a process but cash prostitute it. I say no ex government worker should lobby until after five years of employment. I not a genius. I realize some of my thoughts would/may not be feasible, or have unintended consequences, or likely don't go far enough. I would like to hear your thoughts.
People have a right to assemble. I'd say instead of banning unionizing, take all those government jobs and put them to the private sector. Lobbying should only be used for its intended purpose: to inform. No more promises and winks going around the table.
Originally posted by Red88FF: Did you write this all out or is this a cut and paste from an article?
It is all mine. I started it on 06-17-2013 09:45 AM here. It got no traction so I decided to start a thread dedicated to it. I have been writing it for the last few days. I would be thinking about it and when an idea struck me, I would jot it down. The night before last and yesterday morning I organized them for presentation. A couple of the thoughts I have heard before, such as a Social Security fund lock box, line item veto (which I rejected in favor of stand alone bills), and term limits, but by and large they are my thoughts. I have a couple more.
Freedom States should be able to secede, have the right. Without war. The tenth amendment granted powers not delegated to the Feds to the states. Government is supposed to fear the people. Especially fear them leaving. Much like marriage. The Emancipation Proclamation decreed that no one should own another. I argue that by extension, the government should not own people or states. Too often we are treated as commodities.
Fiscal accountability. All monies collected shall be spent on the reasons for promised collections. Social Security lock box for example.
Economics The Constitution granted the federal government the power to coin and print money, not to pick and choose winners and losers. Both of companies and locations. Let the local governments and private individuals create business. It is one thing for Congress to create laws which govern the economy but creating rules by department to move money is wrong. (Example: Fire Resistant Clothing mandated by OSHA for every job in the oil fields. I have been in it all my life and have never known of people to catch on fire. Any who did burn were gonna burn anyway.) Too often government does stuff just to move money around.
Governing Blackmailing states with our money to impose social will needs to stop. Executive orders. They shall not be used to make end runs around Congress as it defeats the balance of powers. Our executive is not a dictator. I very much like your thought here Red :
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Originally posted by Red88FF: I would very much like to see an immediate end to any and all retirement benefits or special rules for medical INS for the senate and congress and president.
I will add to it that all governing officials should have to abide by all the same rules and laws they force us to abide by. I think Executive Privilege needs to be revisited. I do not now much of it's history but it seems as a way to hide stuff they do not want to be found out about. I see no compelling reason why it's needed. Transparency is what we deserve. I also agree with you whade :
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Originally posted by whadeduck: I believe we need to have Congress stop policing themselves. What good does it do when you have the criminals decide if they've done anything wrong or not? As long as they make their own rules, the will of the people will never be followed in my opinion.
I'll add a couple of thoughts. What we have are lawyers writing the rules, which benefit lawyers. No matter how you see ObamaCare, I think legal care is much more needed. Especially if you are fighting city hall which have never ending deep pockets. Every aspect of our lives are affected by the laws they create, from buying a house to starting a business, to operating a business with a myriad of gooberment regulations. If nothing else, one should be able to recoup the monies they spend if they are found in the right. This would keep weak prosecutions from persecuting us. Also we can not even trust Congress from banning themselves from insider trading and we have seen how they always vote themselves a raise. Yes, Congress setting their own rules is like the wolf guarding the chicken coop.
I also think we need a Hall of Shame. We honor the great leaders with monuments. We need a national shrine for the bad ones. As so they will try to stay out of it. Thanks all for your feedback. I guess I should respond.
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Originally posted by Boondawg: Humans taint everything they touch.
Don, Donald, Donnie, yes and no. I have seen you opine this many times for different reasons. Sometimes to excuse (it seems to me), sometimes to justify (it seems to me), sometimes to say we can't do anything about it (it seems to me). Maybe sometimes in resignation to the fact. It is true but humans can be and are willing to be (for the most part) corrected. If they are not, others will do it for them. It is also the humans who do the good in the world. There would be nothing to taint if it were not for humans.
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Originally posted by Boondawg: The ideas seem logical (I could get behind all of them), but also very simplistic. I think that in the working world, things are much more complicated.
Could get behind then or will get behind them ? Print out what you like. Send it to your representatives. Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer. Tell them you want their thoughts on them. Demand a response. I see we question the need for term limits or not. That is good. Perhaps deserving it's own thread as their are many argument pro and con. Brad, I need to get busy. This little endeavor of mine has consumed more time than I would like. Not that I mind, I am just busy and type forty minutes a word. I will get back to you.
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Originally posted by cliffw: Government exists to protect the rights of all people.
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Originally posted by motoracer838: Somebody needs to turn on the tv, or what have you been smoking??? Joe
I would like to hear what you mean, perhaps give myself a chance to clarify my thoughts. Care to discuss ? Government wages. I'll add to the discussion later. theBDub, Brandon, thanks for taking the time. I'll need to get back to you later also.
I mentioned in my first post that it saddened me that people only identified their desires by a political flavor. What saddens me more is the ones who do not participate. The others sections of PFF have many Americans in it. Many in this T/OT section also do not participate. I get that political bickering is frustrating, boring, perhaps pointless. I get that many may not be current on events, ie ignorant. I get that many may not have debate skills (I learned mine right here). I get that some may fear being jumped on for their opinion (which they might not be able to articulate well). It's their country to lose too. We all have something to contribute. I am an uneducated dumbazz but I can believe I can make a positive difference. What's up with you Neptune ? RayB ? There are other usual suspects that are not posting, .
Voting and campaigning: Term limits are needed. A voter ID should be mandatory. Both sises of the isle have been harmed by elections being stolen. Dead people voting, multiple votes, fake citizens. All threaten our election process. Equal representation also needs to be addressed. No more of the big cities dictating the wishes of a whole state. Perhaps the Electoral College set up needs to be revisited. Political affiliations should be banned from the ballots.
In his 1796 Farewell Address to the nation, George Washington warned against "the baneful effects of the spirit of party" as inciting American citizens "with ill-founded jealousies." Yep. Smart man.
We have the technology to monitor illegal activity because the voting is a closed loop network. We still use paper sign in procedures. This should become electronic. Votes and voters should have encrypted tracking numbers that can't be used for anything but monitoring. Red flags can be instantly thrown if there's illegal activity. With a current database of registered voters, it we become harder and harder for illegal votes. Not on the list, can't vote.
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Fiscal accountability. I want to see a balanced budget amendment, and the auditing of the Federal Reserve.
Transparency. The so called "news conferences", where the press is granted the favor of asking questions, should be required to take regular "Joe the Plumber " questions. I know everybody in America can not ask at the same time but I believe a method could be worked out.
Do we need a PR team for the secretary of the undersecretary?
The IRS should become the Application Assessment Service. They should see if existing programs and departments are really needed. Get rid of the multiple layers of government.
One of the most important jobs is balancing the budget. If they can't do it, they get fined and/or fired.
There are some things in government spending that we shouldn't know about. Should it be public knowledge how much goes into R&D (and should they know every program?) of new technology and every defense program? We won the cold war with spending, could it happen against us in the future especially if they understand how far we'll spend?
Computers will be great for conferences. People can (for a simple phrase) Tweet their questions to a site. With the technology of tracking key words ( the government has a few ideas of that), similar questions can be grouped and the questions can be answered in real time.
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Governing and serving : Working for the government is not a right. I want an end to "riders" on proposed legislation. A bill should be able to stand on it's own. I am tired of Congressional vote buying by promising pork to another's district/state. Our forefather's realization that a separation of powers is needed is as true today as then.
We vote them in office. If they don't vote as the majority says, they need to be recalled. If they don't vote, they need to be recalled. If they leave office early for anything but severe health issues, all benefits need to be revoked and if a special election is required, they have to fund it. If they have severe health issues, why did they run in the first place? Their pensions are comparable to everyone else. 10 years as public servant before they become vested. 25 years before retirement.
On the same venue, why do they have to pay taxes if they're getting paid with taxes? Same with the military. If they have a business on the side, tax them with the revenue they make on that or use their service as a tax deduction.
Riders are not what the people want. Usually it's what business wants. Businesses are not people. They do not deserve their own vote.
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Lobbyists Cash prostitutes that procedure.
Every month there should be a list of who received what from who, or what. Every year all members compile a list to show what they received. If things are given under the table, when found severe penalties on both parties should be given, not just monetary, but banishment from lobbying for a time period would be a good deterrent.
In the past few days, a number of legislators, both Republican and Democrat, have raised serious questions regarding apparent deficiencies in the Affordable Care Act. To the extent that deficiencies do in fact exist, here is one explanation, from a prior post:
The most represented profession in the 113th Congress is law. Some 45 of 100 senators and 128 of 433 representatives are lawyers. See Dorothy Gambrell, “173 Lawyers and a Buddhist Walk Into a Capitol…,” Bloomberg Businessweek, January 14-January 20, 2013, 28. Is this a good or bad thing?
What is bad is that these lawyers don’t seem to read the draft legislation they vote on. News reports relate that the Affordable Care Act and Dodd Frank Financial Reform bills — both of staggering length — were passed before legislators had any realistic time period to review them even in a cursory fashion. More recently, the so-called fiscal cliff bill reached the floor of the House three minutes before it was voted on and passed.
What lawyer in private practice would let a client sign a contract or will he or she had not read? Which lawyer would herself pass a contract or bill on to the client for signature if she had not read it? Yet lawyers in Congress apparently do this all the time, relying on their leadership or staff to tell them what the bill provides.
In private practice, this would be clear malpractice. In public life, it has become the norm. In former Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi’s words, legislators have to pass the bill to find out what is in it.
So my answer is No, there are not too many lawyers in Congress. There are simply not the right kind. Good lawyers read bills and analyze them. If this were to become the new norm, lawyers could meaningfully assist in crafting coherent legislation. We might have fewer laws — but they would be better ones in my view.
Originally posted by TK: None of the problems are insurmountable, they just have to take action. Therein lies the problem. How do we get a large group of people to actually sit down and take action ?
That is a good question. I meant to answer it in my last post. Not a complete answer but first things first. We need to have a conversation. We need to frame it as appealing. We need to keep it simple.
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Originally posted by Boondawg: The ideas seem logical but also very simplistic. I think that in the working world, things are much more complicated.
Do they have to be ? No. Look at our Bill of Rights. Pretty succinct.
Gokart, I am looking forward to reading your contribution, can't right now though.
There are many good ideas floating around in this thread. The only problem is people's apathy to try and implement any of them. Most believe they cannot make a difference or don't even care to make one. Many just think "what does it matter?", that is why our country is where it is.
There are many good ideas floating around in this thread. The only problem is people's apathy to try and implement any of them. Most believe they cannot make a difference or don't even care to make one. Many just think "what does it matter?", that is why our country is where it is.
I don't believe it is apathy... It comes down to getting support and finances, and those come with strings attached. This is how we got into this mess to begin with.
Governing What's up with Harry Reed not allowing Bills to come up for a vote ?
It's the Republican's fault. If there's enough support for a GOP or bipartisan bill that the administration doesn't want, that leaves him no choice but to refuse to allow it to come up for a vote. Otherwise, Obama could be put in the position of having to sign or veto a bill he doesn't like. The GOP minority in the Senate is forcing Reed to do this.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 06-22-2013).]
I get confused very easily, but isn't it the republican party that holds up votes on the things they don't like? Maybe both parties. Or is it the republicans in the house instead of the senate?
I get confused very easily, but isn't it the republican party that holds up votes on the things they don't like? Maybe both parties. Or is it the republicans in the house instead of the senate?
Maybe you're referring to filibusters? That's a tool the minority party has (both Republican and Democrat) to stop the vote on a bill. It can be overriden by a large enough majority. That's how the system is designed to work. That's not what Reid is doing. As the Senate Majority Leader, he's simply refused to let bills even come up for a vote. They don't get reviewed. There is no opportunity for filibuster or vote.
As people were blasting the GOP as the "Party of No", the House was passing bill after bill that never got voted on in the Senate. It's not that they were voted down - they were never even brought up for a vote. You need to pay attention to more than just the sound bites.
How many budgets has the Senate passed since Obama took office in 2008? That's the Senate's job. Who's been the majority leader in the Senate the entire time?
Remember all the hoopla when the SS tax holiday was going to expire, the Senate wanted a 2 month extension, but the GOP majority controlled House didn't? That was played up a lot, but this is what wasn't talked about:...
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 06-22-2013).]
That's the first time I've listened to anything that Allen West had to say since he made the ridiculous charge that eighty democrats were communists. liberals yes, communists no. Maybe you're right about the rest of it. I'm a victim of the media and I know that both sides spin everything. Anyway I'm all for our legislators voting on anythingnthat comes up, not blocking a vote.
Originally posted by dratts: I get confused very easily, but isn't it the republican party that holds up votes on the things they don't like?
Confusion is good. The regime likes that. I am not sure either if the repulsivecans have done that. No matter what, it is wrong. The elected officials of any state should be duty bound to present legislation for consideration. The legislation should be put forward and I can not think of one good reason why it should not be.
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Originally posted by Jonesy: Bill Mar would agree with you on term limits..
He might. I wish he would have mentioned something about "new fresh ideas" being the result. Something about corruption cronyism being eradicated. Disrupting "nudge wink wink" relationships.
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Originally posted by Fats: I think on voter ID that simpler would be better. Remove the ID demand, and simply have people dip their fingers in indelible ink like they do in other corrupt countries. Is it really that indelible, ? Are they voting in the right legal district ? What about absentee ballots ?
Just label the people running alphabetically and ignore their political affiliations? Or ban them all together? We can not ban them as we have the Constitutional right of freedom of assembly. It should not matter how they appear on the ballot as far as alphabetically. One should know who they are voting for. Political affiliations on the ballot should be banned.
I'm not sure how one would fix the problem of campaign financing. We want fair elections. Everybody spending the same amount of money is fair. Elections should not be bought.
Another one that should be easy to fix. But I have no idea how. Some of the ideals taught in School are appalling to me. I am not sure how it could be more fair in the freedom of choice of who to invite on campus. However, hacks in an audience, way laying a opposition opinion, should be banned. This is mostly done by the party of tolerance,
Government Pay I would have to think about this more. Comparative rates of the private sector seems reasonable. I don't really have an opinion on this since I think that the speeches don't matter. I don't think you could be more wrong. Speeches are for many reasons. I just think that a speech should stand on the merits of it's words and ideas. Maybe it's not that big of a deal. Maybe it doesn't matter if he has a back drop of props. I think a speech preaching to the choir which will cheer is just like a laugh track on a sitcom. Not in just being annoying, into duping the viewers that it is all that.
I'm not sure what to do about lobbying. I think at the very least it should be made more transparent. Perhaps since we are all "shareholders" in this Country we should get a Quarterly report regarding different aspects of the Government. I'm not sure how it would be done, but that's why I make the little bucks. Lobbying by money is bad. Period. I can see the sense in presenting a thought out opinion made concise and it takes money to organize a presentation. Yet, this post has been no easy task for me. I did it in the fervor of my belief in the cause. Lobbying could be done by mail petition. 100,000 signatures demands attention.
Did I miss anything Brad ? ******************************************************************************************************************************************************
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Originally posted by theBDub: I think the Electoral College needs to be revisited, but not done away with. I used to have an idea for how to fix it... can't think of it right now. I'll edit this statement if I remember my thought. Did you think about remembering, ? ... third parties need better access to the presidential debates. The percentage rule that is in place now is all but impossible to overcome given that third parties don't have a voice in the first place. I agree we should not be burdened with only two choices, us or them. I am no scholar but I have heard that there are arguments about the dysfunction of multi-party systems. I think if we just eliminated party affiliation from the ballot it would be a good start.
People have a right to assemble. I'd say instead of banning unionizing, take all those government jobs and put them to the private sector. I agree people have a right to unionize. It should not be necessary for government employees to unionize. The government exists to protect rights and it's employees deserve no more rights than an average citizen working in the private sector. Let's look at it this way. Union membership is decreasing rapidly. Except in government. Unions 99% support and donate big bucks to just one party. Anything to get rid of the other party. The IRS party targeting was done by union employees. Government employees can not fairly administer govwernment when they have a loyalty to one party.
Interesting. I am not so sure I want private contractors doing government jobs. It is said they do it more efficiently, cheaper, and better. Our government shouldbe capable of doing the same. Also, who would get to decide which private entity got those jobs (I had previously mentioned I am against government picking winners and losers). I do understand we put contracts out for bid so it may be possible to do.
Lobbying should only be used for its intended purpose: to inform. No more promises and winks going around the table.
See my thoughts to Brad on lobbying. ******************************************************************************************************
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: We have the technology to monitor illegal activity because the voting is a closed loop network. We still use paper sign in procedures. This should become electronic. Votes and voters should have encrypted tracking numbers that can't be used for anything but monitoring. Red flags can be instantly thrown if there's illegal activity. With a current database of registered voters, it we become harder and harder for illegal votes. Not on the list, can't vote. Many people don't vote. What about impersonations ? Nothing wrong with an ID to vote. You have to have an ID to get a library card, get on a plane, get a bank account, and on and on. Computers will be great for conferences. People can (for a simple phrase) Tweet their questions to a site. With the technology of tracking key words ( the government has a few ideas of that), similar questions can be grouped and the questions can be answered in real time. Great way to ensure Joe the Plumber questions get answered. Unanswered questions should be noted so as they can again be asked. Every month there should be a list of who received what from who, or what. Every year all members compile a list to show what they received. If things are given under the table, when found severe penalties on both parties should be given, not just monetary, but banishment from lobbying for a time period would be a good deterrent.
Thanks for your good feedback. Especially your second post. Lawyer malpractice indeed. ***********************************************************************************************************************************
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Originally posted by avengador1: There are many good ideas floating around in this thread. The only problem is people's apathy to try and implement any of them. Most believe they cannot make a difference or don't even care to make one. Many just think "what does it matter?", that is why our country is where it is.
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Originally posted by jaskispyder: I don't believe it is apathy... It comes down to getting support and finances, and those come with strings attached. This is how we got into this mess to begin with.
Apathy is one problem but it only applies to those which care to inform themselves. Ignorance is another. And to jaski's point, self defeatism is another. I am sure there are others such as the lazy, the easily discouraged, those that believe in miracles and somehow this mess will fix itself.. All I can say is "hold my beer and watch this", . There are two other types of people. Those that accept life and those that affect life. Doing nothing is not an option for me. I believe this country is at a tipping point. I am deeply patriotic. I can try to fix it, or I can leave and take Texas with me. I ask what are you gonna do ? Me ? I am subject to apathy, admittedly ignorant, a self defeatist to a point, lazy ... or too busy elsewhere, and believe in miracles. Neither is good enough. It's big boy time ! I am glad reasons of failure are being mentioned. Gotta know what needs to be overcome. Getting support. Heck, I have almost all posting in agreement. I am still disappointed in Neptune, Rayb, fierobear, wolfhound, blackrams, maryjane, pokeyfiero, fierobear, Patrick, MEM, and all the rest of our cast for not posting. I need feedback, so as to better present my thoughts. Getting finances ? Money is not a problem. I'll call in the cliffw bikini team to raise money, . Kidding sort of. Money will take care of itself. The strings attached part is something to be worried about. As is bad associations killing the message. I need to take this conversation to a bigger stage. My local radio morning DJ at Rev FM (Revolution Radio in an ironic twist, (named for a non country music format in a dominated country music demographic) often discusses politics. Local, state, and federal. He once ran for local office. I bet he would have me on as a guest to discuss this. Another station I like/listen to, ,Real Country, 92.3, The Ranch, just started a feature segment entitled We The People (they just finished their second segment). I bet they would be receptive to this discussion. I can think of other's that might be interested in the discussion and not just radio venues. The state of affairs of our nation are ripe for this to be a well received discussion and I think it needs to be a notional one. I think it will get there. I have never been on a political stage, even one not seeking office. I have never been on the radio or TV. At one time, I had never had sex. I am going for it. Are you gonna just stand there and hold my beer while watching, or are you gonna help me ?
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Originally posted by Boondawg: The ideas seem logical (I could get behind all of them)....
Don't be like Nobama and lead from behind. I need some help. I am big on ideas. A little sucky on follow thru but not easily discouraged. I would like some help refining my first post. To make an alluring argument which will attract venues to deliver it to an to also motivate others into doing what I can not do. I can not save America. ***********************************************************************************************************************************
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Originally posted by TK: None of the problems are insurmountable, they just have to take action. Therein lies the problem. How do we get a large group of people to actually sit down and take action.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, conversation is a good start. It will though take more conversation than we are having here. Here if I could get one guy to spread the idea (presentation still to be formalized) to many different venues, and they gained one to do the same, the conversation will spread. From the conversation ideas of action likely will be discussed.
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Originally posted by TK: Other than some of the analogies and metaphors being a stretch, I can't say I disagree with too much.
What ? You don't recognize Obamanese, ? Thank you for the delivery style critique. A little I think is necessary and I agree too much is too much.
Every Law And Regulations Should Have An Expiration Date ! Our legislators seem to have nothing better else to do but make new laws and regulations. Now everything is criminal and we are regulated to death (or out of existence). The regime (Congress and the President) always whines about how "we the people" are frustrated that nothing gets done. Myself, I like it that way, except really important issues. e need to take up more of there time so they can not concoct more ways to make us less free.
I know that my saying so is just another post agreeing with what you have posted, but I want to say that it gives me some hope for the future when I read your thoughts and see the support that you have here. Thanks again! You've put a lot of thought and effort into your thread.
Originally posted by dratts: I want to say that it gives me some hope for the future when I read your thoughts and see the support that you have here.
Don't get your hopes up. I am just one man. I hope for that support. I will need it. You have heard that saying. "A good friend will be in jail besides you". We will see if I have that support. I am just gonna do my thing here. I am counting on that support to do it where they live.
cliffw Texan American
EDIT for notes. Social Engineering
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 06-27-2013).]
Taxation : The IRS needs to go. It has become a joke. Not only has it been used, past and present, to target political enemies, it's morass is beyond comprehension. The Internal Revenue code is seven times the length of the Bible, twice the length of Tolstoy's "War and Peace". The federal tax code with its 44,000 pages, 5.5 million words, and 721 different forms is a patchwork maze of complexity and a testament to confusion over common sense. Even our Secretary of the Treasury, Timothy "Turbo Tax" Geither, who oversees the IRS, could not figure out how to do his taxes. Americans are forced to go to accountants to get their taxes done. Lobbyists are always bribing our lawmakers for special loopholes. Politicians use it to to win votes.
Governing and serving : Working for the government is not a right. It is a privilege we the voters grant certain people (even if by proxy). Just as licensed driving is a right, requiring people to involuntarily give up their Fifth Amendment rights, government workers should be required to do the same. If they plead the Fifth they should relinquish their jobs and be prohibited from working for the government or in any position with a private company which deals with the government. It's about accountability.
Originally posted by Boondawg: I could get behind all of them.
Not just you Boondawg, everybody, ... call your legislators, mail them also, email them, do it regularly. Be the squeaky wheel, make them listen. Demand a reply.
Originally posted by cliffw: Not just you Boondawg, everybody, ... call your legislators, mail them also, email them, do it regularly. Be the squeaky wheel, make them listen. Demand a reply.
BUMP The primaries are coming up. I would suggest a more important part of our voting process. At a local level, it strengthens or gives momentum to state contests. Which do the same at a national level. Less money is spent on the propaganda of the populace during the primaries. This is our best time to "throw the bums out". Even if not successful, it sends a message to the general election candidates. We have more of an influence in the outcome of our country at the lower levels of the voting process than one might think. It may not be an instant outcome, I will compare it to like investing or saving. It may take some time. That said, read my first post. Re-read it if you have read it as I have added notes/edited it for my purposes. Don't just vote. Ask questions of the candidates, even the ones you don't favor. Don't just listen to them. See how they react (I suggest question them about some of the things my first post suggests). Ask them anything but ask. Bitchin' after the fact is why we are where we are at.
Topic Closed
. It really is not a bad idea. Many police internal review boards have had to include regular citizens.
? Government exists to protect the rights of all people. Why do we need an entity to operate within our government which seeks to carve out it's own rights ?
I think that if a City gets to a certain size that they should automatically split into their own "State" of sorts, so their decisions (politically) do not effect the State they were a part of. 
? Print out what you like. Send it to your representatives. Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer. Tell them you want their thoughts on them. Demand a response.
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? Thank you for the delivery style critique. A little I think is necessary and I agree too much is too much.
