Originally posted by dennis_6: Yes, if you want to compare it at its creation in 1938 during the great depression you are correct. Just wondering if you consider 1938 as a time that worked out well for companies and employes? Why was it raised to a higher amount over time, if the 1938 amount worked so well? Would you say that since we are getting closer to the 1938 value, that the economy is doing better? Are employers making record profits without the burden of a 1968 level min wage?
I haven't suggested it should stay at the 1938 level. I've pointed out that over the life of the law minimum wage increases have outpaced inflation.
What's special about the 1968 minimum wage? http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774473.html Oh, I see. 1968 was the highest minimum wage from 1955 to present adjusted for inflation. Naturally you'll want to set that as the bare minimum.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 03-17-2014).]
I haven't suggested it should stay at the 1938 level. I've pointed out that over the life of the law minimum wage increases have outpaced inflation.
What's special about the 1968 minimum wage? http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774473.html Oh, I see. 1968 was the highest minimum wage from 1955 to present adjusted for inflation. Naturally you'll want to set that as the bare minimum.
Since I don't make minimum wage, I don't personally care what it is. This thread is only aimed at showing the other side of, the min wage is already to high, and should be abolished threads.
Since I don't make minimum wage, I don't personally care what it is. This thread is only aimed at showing the other side of, the min wage is already to high, and should be abolished threads.
Is there a rash of those threads? I've seen a few individual comments about abolishing minimum wage, but there hasn't been any big push for it to my knowledge. Meanwhile, there is a significant push here, in media and government to trumpet "income inequality" and how minimum wage is so low you can't raise a family of 4 on it and afford a house, two cars, 3 cellphones and a big screen TV.
All of the comparisons talking about how much minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation or cost of living reference 1968 - the historic high mark for minimum wage.
The problem is less about minimum wage than it is quality higher wage jobs for people who want them. Minimum wage jobs are supposed to be a starting point for someone unskilled, so they can learn skills and move on to a better job. People with trade skills or degrees having to take minimum wage jobs because it's all they can find is the problem people should be addressing.
Is there a rash of those threads? I've seen a few individual comments about abolishing minimum wage, but there hasn't been any big push for it to my knowledge. Meanwhile, there is a significant push here, in media and government to trumpet "income inequality" and how minimum wage is so low you can't raise a family of 4 on it and afford a house, two cars, 3 cellphones and a big screen TV.
All of the comparisons talking about how much minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation or cost of living reference 1968 - the historic high mark for minimum wage.
The problem is less about minimum wage than it is quality higher wage jobs for people who want them. Minimum wage jobs are supposed to be a starting point for someone unskilled, so they can learn skills and move on to a better job. People with trade skills or degrees having to take minimum wage jobs because it's all they can find is the problem people should be addressing.
I will agree on that to an extent. I am not willing to dig up all the abolish min wage post its a waste of time. I agree there is a huge problem with availability of skilled labor jobs, that is a product of outsourcing, and a service economy mindset.
Apparently wages may need to be even higher than the CPI suggest....
The Census Bureau’s Philadelphia office wasn’t just corrupting the nation’s unemployment rate by fabricating data. It was also filing false information about inflation in this country.
Just how large an effect this fraud was having on the Consumer Price Index (CPI) — and consequently the cost of living adjustments for Social Security recipients and others — is not yet known. http://nypost.com/2014/03/2...flation-stats-faked/
It's time government stepped in and fixed this problem once and for all. End this capitalist experiment and let government decide what people should be paid. Everyone will get the job government deems them best suited for by aptitude tests. Then everyone will be provided a livable home and stipend. No more class warfare. Everyone gets the same fair deal. Doesn't matter if you're a doctor or a ditch digger, you still only need the same amount of room and board to live. It's time people stopped thinking success makes them better than someone else. It doesn't. You shouldn't have a higher standard of living just because you're more successful.
Amen, amen. Who do I have to talk to? I want to be a doctor, Formula88.
Originally posted by dennis_6: The Census Bureau’s Philadelphia office wasn’t just corrupting the nation’s unemployment rate by fabricating data. It was also filing false information about inflation in this country.
I wonder how bad the economy actually is....
Interesting. No wonder we don't print "In Government We Trust" on money.
I think anyone working a full time job should at least be able to make enough to sustain them selves with a place go live and some forum of transportation. But within means.
I think anyone working a full time job should at least be able to make enough to sustain them selves with a place go live and some forum of transportation. But within means.
I think anyone working a full time job should at least be able to make enough to sustain them selves with a place go live and some forum of transportation. But within means.
Because some people have something called a disability, and the job you mock is all they can do. Be grateful they don't just say f-it and suck up disability like millions of others. If it is all someone is capable of, for whatever reason, and they are willing and determined to work. Don't you think they should be allowed to live? At least as the working poor, and not die homeless and starving or does that make me a socialist?
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 03-31-2014).]
Because some people have something called a disability, and the job you mock is all they can do. Be grateful they don't just say f-it and suck up disability like millions of others. If it is all someone is capable of, for whatever reason, and they are willing and determined to work. Don't you think they should be allowed to live? At least as the working poor, and not die homeless and starving or does that make me a socialist?
I think employers should be able to decide what a job is worth and employees should be able to decide if they want to accept it or not.
Yeah, they should be allowed to live. I'm not going to kill them. But if all someone can do is put cheese on a sandwich and hand it to the next employee, I'm not going to pay that person more than putting cheese on a sandwich and handing off to the next person is worth.
I think employers should be able to decide what a job is worth and employees should be able to decide if they want to accept it or not.
Yeah, they should be allowed to live. I'm not going to kill them. But if all someone can do is put cheese on a sandwich and hand it to the next employee, I'm not going to pay that person more than putting cheese on a sandwich and handing off to the next person is worth.
Any person willing to give 40 hrs a week, is trading most/all of their potential time to earn income. If a employer requires all of a persons available time to earn income, then they must at least pay enough to scrape by. Yes, some people work 70+ hrs a week, I did for 7.5 years and have nothing to show for it. Wised up, and quit doing it, found a job that only demands 44 hrs a week. The 40hr work week is the socially accepted norm, so I am going with that. Much more and you are at best a indentured servant, unless well compensated for giving up years of your life.
BTW, I have never worked fast food, but I have been at McDonalds during rush hour, I have seen that it requires a certain skill set to work with unreasonable customers, cussing, screaming, and threatening. Rushing orders while not screwing them up, and to top it off understaffed. I wouldn't want to be them at lunch time. I wouldn't want to be one of the three cashiers at walmart on Friday evening, that has to deal with pissed off customers. Not their fault, the company doesn't want to hire extra staff for periods of demand. I am not claiming they should be paid 20 dollars a hour, but its not as simple as putting cheese on a burger. If it was there would be a lot of leaches running to apply.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 03-31-2014).]
That's one opinion. I have another. Value is determined by both parties and is a mutually beneficial and agreed upon number.
In this economy, it is a employers market. There is no agreed upon number, its whatever desperate people are willing to work for. If employers had it there way children would be working too, and no one would make over 10 dollars a day. I am not saying all employers are evil. I am saying to a person that only looks at the bottom line, the less they can pay the better. It doesn't matter if their employes can survive, they are expendable. A loaf of bread cost less in mexico, so you can pay a mexican less. Wonder why outsourcing is so popular? Employers are not willing to pay even what a American is worth.
onsumer Prices in United States are 62.09% higher than in Mexico Consumer Prices Including Rent in United States are 89.24% higher than in Mexico Rent Prices in United States are 200.54% higher than in Mexico Restaurant Prices in United States are 89.75% higher than in Mexico Groceries Prices in United States are 66.83% higher than in Mexico Local Purchasing Power in United States is 129.08% higher than in Mexico http://www.numbeo.com/cost-...untry2=United+States
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 03-31-2014).]
In this economy, it is a employers market. There is no agreed upon number, its whatever desperate people are willing to work for. If employers had it there way children would be working too, and no one would make over 10 dollars a day. I am not saying all employers are evil. I am saying to a person that only looks at the bottom line, the less they can pay the better. It doesn't matter if their employes can survive, they are expendable. A loaf of bread cost less in mexico, so you can pay a mexican less. Wonder why outsourcing is so popular? Employers are not willing to pay even what a American is worth.
onsumer Prices in United States are 62.09% higher than in Mexico Consumer Prices Including Rent in United States are 89.24% higher than in Mexico Rent Prices in United States are 200.54% higher than in Mexico Restaurant Prices in United States are 89.75% higher than in Mexico Groceries Prices in United States are 66.83% higher than in Mexico Local Purchasing Power in United States is 129.08% higher than in Mexico http://www.numbeo.com/cost-...untry2=United+States
I've never wondered why outsourcing was so popular.. because it makes financial sense. We disagree on an extremely fundamental level.
Originally posted by theBDub: That's one opinion. I have another. Value is determined by both parties and is a mutually beneficial and agreed upon number.
wonderful theory. but, from where most folks are sitting - there is no determination. there is no agreement. it is $X - Take it or leave it, and, since I am the only game it town - $X is your only choice.
and, again, since this Minimum Wage is such a huge amount of money - we should also use it as the benchmark cap of the maximum amount one person can transfer to another person as a gift, inheritance, or any other "non productive" purpose. Min Wage X 40 hours X 52 Weeks / Year. That exorbitantly large sum, which is apparantly to much for some types of jobs, must be WWAAYY to much for No Job Whatsoever. How about the maximum amount for playing a game for a living? How about the maximum amount for the leisurely job of Ownership? start poking back, and adding perspective, and we quickly see this is all horsecrap.
and, again - at the end of the day - min wage job will be the bottom of the heap. The economy will adjust, and the loser jobs now will be the loser jobs then. Those of us who can do, and are in demand, will thrive. No Loss Here. Make Min wage $50/Hour. so what. a pack of smokes will then be $50. yippie. I will be fine. my compensation will adjust accordingly as well. a crap job is a crap job. the turd wont polish.
Any person willing to give 40 hrs a week, is trading most/all of their potential time to earn income.
Time has value to the person giving it, but it's only valuable to the employer if you can do something useful during that time. If all you can do is stand at the door and be a Wal-Mart greeter, don't expect to get paid as much as someone who does more.
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Originally posted by dennis_6: BTW, I have never worked fast food, but I have been at McDonalds during rush hour, I have seen that it requires a certain skill set to work with unreasonable customers, cussing, screaming, and threatening. Rushing orders while not screwing them up, and to top it off understaffed. I wouldn't want to be them at lunch time. I wouldn't want to be one of the three cashiers at walmart on Friday evening, that has to deal with pissed off customers. Not their fault, the company doesn't want to hire extra staff for periods of demand. I am not claiming they should be paid 20 dollars a hour, but its not as simple as putting cheese on a burger. If it was there would be a lot of leaches running to apply.
I have. I worked at McDonald's in High School. I started out at minimum wage and within 6 months got my first raise. I walked in not knowing how they do anything (McDonald's has a specific way to do *everything*). That's McDonald's strong suit. They expect you to be inexperienced and will train you to do the job they want you to do. You don't start out making twice minimum wage, but you can get there with training if you apply yourself. It's not difficult to move up at McDonald's - a high school dropout with a work ethic could start at minimum wage and be in a management position within a couple years, maybe less. The key is you have to go after it - they're not going to beg you to take a promotion. You have to show them you're willing to do more than just the minimum work for minimum pay. Without the work ethic, education and opportunity are worthless.
In any job you do, regardless of pay or title, you should always do more than is expected. That's the only way you're going to move up on your own merits.
I have. I worked at McDonald's in High School. I started out at minimum wage and within 6 months got my first raise. I walked in not knowing how they do anything (McDonald's has a specific way to do *everything*). That's McDonald's strong suit. They expect you to be inexperienced and will train you to do the job they want you to do. You don't start out making twice minimum wage, but you can get there with training if you apply yourself. It's not difficult to move up at McDonald's - a high school dropout with a work ethic could start at minimum wage and be in a management position within a couple years, maybe less. The key is you have to go after it - they're not going to beg you to take a promotion. You have to show them you're willing to do more than just the minimum work for minimum pay. Without the work ethic, education and opportunity are worthless.
In any job you do, regardless of pay or title, you should always do more than is expected. That's the only way you're going to move up on your own merits.
Won't disagree with any of that. I don't think anyone should have a free ride through life, there are very few people who are truly disabled to the point they can't work at a call center, or walmart greeter. I do think anyone giving their 110% 40 hrs a week should be able to afford a $2500 dollar car, $400 apartment, groceries, gas, etc,
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 04-01-2014).]
