Originally posted by Boostdreamer: Your problem is that you think I'm trying to make an arguement. I was asked my BELIEF. That was what I answered with.
You seem to have a desperate need to identify a villan. Will you ever get to a point where you can say, "if that's what you're into, it's not my place to interfere"?
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Originally posted by dratts:
From that line of reasoning you would not be offended if I said my belief is that the Noahs ark story is in NO way possible, right?
Just looking at that, wouldnt that be an argument? If you stated your belief, what you do believe, when asked instead, it would equate more properly. Not that I mind rebuttals. Just saying.
Then you miss the whole point of religion. All are different. All claim to be the correct one. That proves that ONLY one out of the entire bunch can be correct if ANY of them are. ... The fact that all the others are lying does not make a liar out of the original and true religion ....
I didn't miss anything. In your pride and arrogance, you are mistaken. Of course, that's just my sincere opinion.
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Next, if you know that only one religion CAN possibly be true, and you believe that your religion is the correct one, why would you give ANY consideration to possibly believing any portion of any other religion? That would be completely illogical. That's why I believe in Christianity and only Christianity and all of Christianity.
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I believe God has given me the information He wants me to have in my Bible. Which Bible? Whichever one is in my hand.
So, let's summarize your recent posts in this thread:
All religions are different.
All claim to be the correct one.
Only one religion can possibly be true.
Christianity is the only valid religion.
Your particular flavor of Christianity is the only "true" Christianity. (All the others are "liars.")
Your personal Bible is the only valid version.
Your own (or your own sect's) literal interpretation of the Bible is the only valid interpretation.
Did I miss anything this time? That certainly doesn't leave much room for discussion and understanding, does it?
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... [God] would have no trouble creating the Earth to show any amount of age He chooses. Either God created the world the way He wanted it to be or He didn't. My faith tells me to believe this. My experience tells me God and His son are real. I find it easy to believe in a young Earth for these reasons.
It seems equally plausible that God chose to create a 4+ billion year old Earth but for some reason also chose to allow you to believe that it is "young." Or perhaps you simply misunderstood Him. Perhaps science is God's gift to his people, for them to use as a tool to understand the universe they have inherited and to provide new ways for them to explore, enjoy, and appreciate what they have been given. What you choose to do with such a gift, to use it productively or to squander it, is up to you. (See: Parable of the Talents)
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Or you could simply answer, "because that's the way it is" to any and all questions.
It may be a statement of fact, but "It is the way it is" is not in any sense an answer to a "Why ..." question. Try again.
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The Civil War, the Trail of Tears, Obamacare ...
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You simply do not understand my position.
End of discussion. I'll have to remember to use that one sometime.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 04-02-2014).]
I didn't say ANY of those things. Why do you feel a need to make me a villan? Will you ever be able to say, "if that's what you're into, it isn't my business to interfere"?
I didn't miss anything. In your pride and arrogance, you are mistaken. Of course, that's just my sincere opinion.
So are you saying that you are never mistaken or that my ability to express my thoughts into words is the epitome of perfection? I must humbly admit that I am not worthy of such a compliment so it must be you. Sounds like pride and arrogance to me. I could be wrong though, you're the expert. Speaking of which, if you're right. You should have no trouble in completing this sentence based on my posts in this thread: I, Boostdreamer am proud of _____.
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Next, if you know that only one religion CAN possibly be true, and you believe that your religion is the correct one, why would you give ANY consideration to possibly believing any portion of any other religion? That would be completely illogical. That's why I believe in Christianity and only Christianity and all of Christianity.
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I believe God has given me the information He wants me to have in my Bible. Which Bible? Whichever one is in my hand.
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Originally posted by Marvin McInnis:
So, let's summarize your recent posts in this thread:
Christianity is the only valid religion.
Your particular flavor of Christianity is the only "true" Christianity. (All the others are "liars.")
Your personal Bible is the only valid version.
Your own literal interpretation of the Bible is the only valid interpretation.
Did I miss anything this time? That certainly doesn't leave much room for discussion and understanding, does it?
Again, you misunderstood my points. If you can humble yourself long enough to admit that possibility and ask for clarification, I'd be happy to expound.
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... [God] would have no trouble creating the Earth to show any amount of age He chooses. Either God created the world the way He wanted it to be or He didn't. My faith tells me to believe this. My experience tells me God and His son are real. I find it easy to believe in a young Earth for these reasons.
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Originally posted by Marvin McInnis:
It seems equally plausible that God chose to create a 4+ billion year old Earth but for some reason also chose to allow you to believe that it is "young." Or perhaps you simply misunderstood Him. Perhaps science is God's gift to his people, for them to use as a tool to understand the universe they have inherited and to provide new ways for them to explore, enjoy, and appreciate what they have been given. What you choose to do with such a gift, to use it productively or to squander it, is up to you. (See: Parable of the Talents)
It was possible for God to create the Earth 4+ billion years ago. However, according to the Bible, that is not the time that He did it. So, as long as we are going to assume there is a God and He created the world, and gave us His Holy Word in the Bible, we should also assume that he didn't intend to lie to us. I did not come up with the 6K year old Earth theory. That was extrapolated from the information in the Bible. Therefore, to think that God has allowed me to "believe" something false or that I have misunderstood Him, isn't logical. God wants me to believe His Word, The Holy Bible. If by doing so is somehow wrong in your eyes, I'll volunteer to be wrong all day long.
I am thrilled with what science has provided to me and mankind! I never said otherwise. I do believe our ability to study and discover is a gift from God. I use it every day. I'm thankful for it (even though being thankful means arrogance in your book). What have I squandered?
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Or you could simply answer, "because that's the way it is" to any and all questions.
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Originally posted by Marvin McInnis:
It may be a statement of fact, but "It is the way it is" is not in any sense an answer. Try again.
Try what again? I never used the answer, "Because that's the way God wanted it". You brought that up. I do believe things are the way God wants them. If you're asking why the Earth appears to be old, my answer is I don't know. I wasn't brought in as a consultant on the design.
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The Civil War, the Trail of Tears, Obamacare ...
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Originally posted by Marvin McInnis:
So are you saying that the Civil War was a shining example of happiness and prosperity in the USA? Are you laughing at the Trail of Tears? Are you incapable of seeing the humor that was interjected by the inclusion of Obamacare on that list? The facepalm is yours, sir.
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You simply do not understand my position.
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Originally posted by Marvin McInnis:
End of discussion. I'll have to remember to use that one sometime.
Never had to go back and explain anything? Never misunderstood anyone else? I find it hard to believe that. Perhaps if you would humble yourself long enough to ask what others mean instead of telling them what they mean, you might be able to understand their position. The sad thing is, I'm afraid that even if you did understand, you could never concede any points that another person "below you" had made. Pride and arrogance, indeed.
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 03-21-2014).]
Just looking at that, wouldnt that be an argument? If you stated your belief, what you do believe, when asked instead, it would equate more properly. Not that I mind rebuttals. Just saying.
Making an argument implies the desire to convince someone. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about anything. I can tell my thoughts and clarify them as requested without it being a debate.
Did I miss something? Did any believers in this thread actually disagree with the OP?
Why would someone assume that a person of faith would disagree with the original posting? Faith in God does not mean a rejection of science or scientific methodology.
On a light note...so, am I the only one what when seeing that chart, thought of those recent threads about how to wipe and checking to see after a dump?
Dark matter, Dark energy, Intergalactic gas, you dont want to be seeing stars...ha!
Why would someone assume that a person of faith would disagree with the original posting? Faith in God does not mean a rejection of science or scientific methodology.
Maybe not reject it, but the lack of using the scientific method.
I would be very interested in how a long-haired and bearded European looking dude caused bread to rain from the air, turn water into wine by a wave of the hand or how can one die and three days later start living again and then float up to the sky. Or how burning bushes talk to people or snakes talk to people, or how a man lived in a belly if a fish or how a woman can conceive a child without sperm.... scientifically speaking.
Maybe not reject it, but the lack of using the scientific method.
I would be very interested in how a long-haired and bearded European looking dude caused bread to rain from the air, turn water into wine by a wave of the hand or how can one die and three days later start living again and then float up to the sky. Or how burning bushes talk to people or snakes talk to people, or how a man lived in a belly if a fish or how a woman can conceive a child without sperm.... scientifically speaking.
I've heard alot of people argue all kinds of stuff about "aliens" or "ghosts", but somehow they dont see it as supernatural.
Maybe not reject it, but the lack of using the scientific method.
I would be very interested in how a long-haired and bearded European looking dude caused bread to rain from the air, turn water into wine by a wave of the hand or how can one die and three days later start living again and then float up to the sky. Or how burning bushes talk to people or snakes talk to people, or how a man lived in a belly if a fish or how a woman can conceive a child without sperm.... scientifically speaking.
Science has yet to explain everything, and there is no guarantee that it will. It is fascinating to me how much faith professed non religious people put into science, but scorn those that have faith in religion. Perhaps it's not as black and white as many make it out to be.
[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 03-21-2014).]
It seems people think that what ancient civilizations worshipped were actually Aliens. This view spurred on by :
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
But what about all the ghosts and Aliens, some of the things worshipped being Demons etc instead. Its been said advanced alien technology would appear to be “magic”.
If Demons deceived people what might they try to appear as? Lost loved ones ghosts? Alien life forms? Talk to “psychics” influence people in dream/drugged states? I’ve heard it mentioned in a thread on this forum in the past, something like “what would Christians do if Aliens came down and showed themselves”. As if there would be a collapse of Christians. I don’t doubt there would be of many, but…this seems to imply that Aliens convince many people that God doesn’t exist. What would demons like to do? Just that?
How about all the TV shows about demonic stuff, trivializing it, making it laughable?
If Jesus used actual power what would you say that looked like? If Moses wielded it?
Anyway just thoughts.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 03-21-2014).]
Science has yet to explain everything, and there is no guarantee that it will. It is fascinating to me how much faith professed non religious people put into science, but scorn those that have faith religion. Perhaps it's not as black and white as many make it out to be.
Science has explained alot, if not most what we know and understand. Sure there is a lot we don't know, but Christians professed to have all the answers in the Bible.
I'm still not clear about how the burning talking bush is real though, but its real because the Bible says so. Scientifically talking burning bushes and half naked chicks with bird wings aren't real.
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 03-21-2014).]
It seems people think that what ancient civilizations worshipped were actually Aliens. This view spurred on by :
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
But what about all the ghosts and Aliens, some of the things worshipped being Demons etc instead. Its been said advanced alien technology would appear to be “magic”.
If Demons deceived people what might they try to appear as? Lost loved ones ghosts? Alien life forms? Talk to “psychics” influence people in dream/drugged states? I’ve heard it mentioned in a thread on this forum in the past, something like “what would Christians do if Aliens came down and showed themselves”. As if there would be a collapse of Christians. I don’t doubt there would be of many, but…this seems to imply that Aliens convince many people that God doesn’t exist. What would demons like to do? Just that?
How about all the TV shows about demonic stuff, trivializing it, making it laughable?
If Jesus used actual power what would you say that looked like? If Moses wielded it?
Anyway just thoughts.
Unless you are into aliens, ghost (non holy), big foot, Ness or what ever then go about trying to find evidence and speak to that.
But since you are into Jesus and worship him and love him above your own family, I would consider that a serious life dedicated to a person. Make your scientific case about how Jesus does miracles and I would be very interested to hear or read what you got to say.
If you continue to choose to deflect your faith as trivial then so be it, speak about aliens and ghost and not your savior
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 03-21-2014).]
Science has explained alot, if not most what we know and understand. Sure there is a lot we don't know, but Christians professed to have all the answers in the Bible.
I'm still not clear about how the burning talking bush is real though, but its real because the Bible says so. Scientifically talking burning bushes and half naked chicks with bird wings aren't real.
Some Christians take the Bible literally as the end-all Word of God. Other Christians see the Bible as the Word of God, but not literally. Allegory is used in many of the lessons taught. Consider that the burning bush could be a concept that would be easier for an uneducated person to understand than a column of ionized plasma. And angels are not half-naked chicks with wings, nor would Jesus have had European facial characteristics. Humans have a gift for taking simple things and adding layers of complexity.
I've heard alot of people argue all kinds of stuff about "aliens" or "ghosts", but somehow they dont see it as supernatural.
"Ghosts" would clearly fall under supernatural IMO while the existence of aliens (as in intelligent beings not from Earth) is not all that unlikely, scientifically speaking (the question is if we'd ever meet them because of separation in time and space and if we did, if we would recognize each other as intelligent beings).
Some Christians take the Bible literally as the end-all Word of God. Other Christians see the Bible as the Word of God, but not literally. Allegory is used in many of the lessons taught. Consider that the burning bush could be a concept that would be easier for an uneducated person to understand than a column of ionized plasma. And angels are not half-naked chicks with wings, nor would Jesus have had European facial characteristics. Humans have a gift for taking simple things and adding layers of complexity.
Two different explanations with one conclusion means that one has to be wrong. Many Christians here on PFF have adopted the literal meaning as the true Christian God word.
Why would someone assume that a person of faith would disagree with the original posting? Faith in God does not mean a rejection of science or scientific methodology.
I don't know why they do but they do. I just didn't see anyone here specifically say the Big Bang (and the proposed timeline) is BS.
Science has yet to explain everything, and there is no guarantee that it will. It is fascinating to me how much faith professed non religious people put into science, but scorn those that have faith in religion. Perhaps it's not as black and white as many make it out to be.
You don't see the distinction in the usage of the word "faith"? I know of no one with faith in science as also believing it's infallible.
[This message has been edited by TK (edited 03-21-2014).]
OK, there was no matter.... Where did the energy come from, or was it already there?
new answer: didnt come from anywhere. and, no, it wasn't already there. since space/time did not exist yet, there is no "before", and there is no "already there". unfortunately, this is not something our brains can deal with - but - there ya go.
new answer: didnt come from anywhere. and, no, it wasn't already there. since space/time did not exist yet, there is no "before", and there is no "already there". unfortunately, this is not something our brains can deal with - but - there ya go.
Maybe it was already somewhere else So the emptyness does not age unless something is in it?
If a tree falls in the woods.....
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-02-2014).]
Originally posted by 2.5: Maybe it was already somewhere else So the emptyness does not age unless something is in it?
If a tree falls in the woods.....
yup fun stuff
but - no - it cannot be somewhere else because there is no where else. and, the "emptyness" is not empty - it is not even there. in order to be "empty", there has to be container. cant age without time. so, I guess in that regard it was never there, and always there
there was no space or time there was not anything to be empty there was no before
it is what it is
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Originally posted by Pyrthian:
but - no - it cannot be somewhere else because there is no where else. and, the "emptyness" is not empty - it is not even there. in order to be "empty", there has to be container. cant age without time. so, I guess in that regard it was never there, and always there
Some day, people will look back thru history and wonder how primitive people of today must have been to have believed in such a thing. Do you not see that this is just another fanciful explanation of something humans don't understand? Not unlike the proposition of how early man created "gods" as a way to explain the unknown.
Does ANYBODY else see the hipocrisy in this?
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 04-02-2014).]
Originally posted by Boostdreamer: Some day, people will look back thru history and wonder how primitive people of today must have been to have believed in such a thing. Do you not see that this is just another fanciful explanation of something humans don't understand? Not unlike the proposition of how early man created "gods" as a way to explain the unknown.
Does ANYBODY else see the hipocrisy in this?
of course. Just as many today look back at Moon God, Mountain God, Thunder God, etc. God has perpetually been 'the unknown'. Just know that that is also how many are seeing your Sun God.
and, I do not see exploring and learning more as 'fanciful', tho, at this point of human achievement I can surely see how it may seem that way, as we have learned more than we will be able to harness for MANY generations.
there is also the simple fact that those primitive books may in fact be correct, but could only be put into the words and concepts available at the time.
Human narcissism and ego need Gods. They will never go away. The may change to fit the current unknowns - but the Gods will always be with us.
Exactly, however laws of physics evolve and cant get everything in space even today to "add up". You also suppose the parameters remained constant "forever".
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-02-2014).]
