"There is no good in much of their secret conferences save in whosoever enjoineth charity and fairness and peace-making among the people and whoso doeth that, seeking the good pleasure of God, We shall bestow on him a vast reward." (Al-Nisa, Qur'an 4:114).
Reprising some of the agenda of the Amman Message--the prestigious Islamic peace and tolerance-oriented confab of 2005 that was convened in the capital city by Jordan's King Abdullah II--Muslim clerics and scholars gathered from around the world earlier this month in Abu Dubai (United Arab Emirates) with the objective of finding common ground and clarifying what they believe is an authentic version of Islam: An Islam that has no room for extremists like the late Osama bin Laden and others of his ilk. The Forum for Promoting Peace in Muslim Societies was framed in terms of promoting four overarching objectives or "tracks":
Humanistic Values and Coexistence
Correcting Misconceptions
Fatwa in the Age of Upheaval
Islam's Contribution to World Peace
Predicatably, the conference was the subject of considerable reportage on the UAE's "The National" news online. Here are some representative columns:
Ed Husain, a senior fellow for Middle Eastern studies at the Council on Foreign Relations (New York), who was just talking about this on air on the Aljazeera America TV channel, offered this commentary (excerpts):
"Al Qaeda is a direct result of misinterpreting Muslim scripture and exploiting contemporary Muslim politics. It is not enough to say mainstream Muslims are against extremism – where is the orthodox Islamic correction of radicals’ writings? They exist in complex, scholarly language from Libya to Egypt to Pakistan. . . ."
"Thus far, many Muslim leaders and institutions have held back the tide of Muslim radicalism by arguing that now is not the right time for an “Islamic state” or that spilling blood of innocents is forbidden by the Quran. To these points, extremists shout back their rehearsed lines by referring to selected verses or quotes from radical clerics. Rather than try to engage hardliners only on their own aims and declarations, Sheikh bin Bayyah’s fresh approach changes the conversation. . . ."
"Sheikh bin Bayyah reminds us that Prophet Mohammed signed the treaty of Hudaibiyah with his oppressors to keep peace in society. When his opponents rejected the first line of the treaty drafted by Muslims, the Prophet erased references to Allah as “compassionate and merciful” in line with demands from Mecca’s non-Muslims. Not content, they then required the Prophet delete mention of “Mohammed, the Prophet of God” – in other words, the Prophet’s entire raison d’être was rejected. The Prophet made the changes, the Hudaibiyah agreement was signed. At what price? The very basis of belief in God’s characteristics and the Prophet’s purpose dismissed – but agreed by the Prophet himself for maintaining wider peace in society. Peace is the first right – once that is secured, other rights can be considered. . . ."
Peace by eradication of infidels. That is the ONLY peace Muslims want, and will not stop the slaughter until they get it. ( or are eradicated themselves )
[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 03-22-2014).]
Peace by eradication of infidels. That is the ONLY peace Muslims want, and will not stop the slaughter until they get it. ( or are eradicated themselves )
Of course...I forgot...all Muslims are extremists.
Yeah, yeah, Pat Condell. Did HE attend this forum in Abu Dubai? Condell moves me to laugh, but he doesn't move me to take his comments with anything except a giant-sized shaker of salt. A comedian, but not a commentator. If he weren't so skilled with his barbed tongue, I would dismiss him as both disreputable and not entertaining. He's just disreputable AND entertaining.
Yeah, yeah, Pat Condell. Did HE attend this forum in Abu Dubai? Condell moves me to laugh, but he doesn't move me to take his comments with anything except a giant-sized shaker of salt. A comedian, but not a commentator. If he weren't so skilled with his barbed tongue, I would dismiss him as both disreputable and not entertaining. He's just disreputable AND entertaining.
Does being a comedian disqualify his remarks? Somebody should tell Senator Franken.
Clearly you already know who he is and didn't need to bother listening to the message. Please tell me what part of his argument you disagree with. He was talking about how the extremists are a problem for the moderate Muslims as well (among other things).
There are extremists in many religions. Those preaching tolerance and love to the mainstream aren't the ones you need to worry about. They never have been.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 03-23-2014).]
Yeah, yeah, Pat Condell. Did HE attend this forum in Abu Dubai? Condell moves me to laugh, but he doesn't move me to take his comments with anything except a giant-sized shaker of salt. A comedian, but not a commentator. If he weren't so skilled with his barbed tongue, I would dismiss him as both disreputable and not entertaining. He's just disreputable AND entertaining.
Another crock of **** . What he said is very true.
One of Pat Condell's main points (maybe his only point) is that sensible or decent Muslims are either so frightened--or so cowardly--that not hardly one of them in recent history, anywhere in the world, has ever tried to stand up and take a meaningful stand against any of the various kinds of Islamic extremists.
This recently convened forum in Abu Dubai that is the subject of my post, is an effort by a group of well known Muslim clerics and scholars to present what they see as a more authentic version of Islam, in a bid to undermine the narratives and justifications put forth by extremists, such as the late Osama bin Laden, and the other individuals and groups who claim an affiliation with Islam and are still forging ahead with their intolerant objectives and coercive and intimidating methods.
I don't expect that this gathering in Abu Dubai, which reminds me of another well attended forum that took place in Amman, Jordan in 2005 and became known as "The Amman Message", is going to stop the extremists in their tracks, or even slow them down in any noticeable way, in the short run. Maybe, if these latest efforts at combatting the extremists using Qur'an itself and the written history of Qur'anic interpretation (the very definition of Islam) are enlarged and sustained--which is an aspiration or objective of the group that convened in Abu Dubai--they will have a positive effect in terms of what is going on all around the world. Maybe not. But either way, it tells me that while voices like Pat Condell's may be on target about the travesties of Islam that are still being promulgated by so many of the world's Muslims and their renegade leaders, Condell et al are not speaking truly about Islam itself.
Now let me cut to the chase: One of my objectives in starting another new thread related to Islam and Muslims is to draw out a certain member or members (who shall remain unnamed). I think that they have been responding (in previous discussions) to themes and ideas that they are inaccurately superimposing upon my posts--they are putting words in my "mouth"--but I don't think that they are responding to what I actually presented in the writing of my posts.
And for what reason? Just for "fun". I like to post, and this is one of my chosen genres. I've actually got more useful things that I should be doing, even at this very moment, but who among us doesn't struggle with the temptations of immediate gratification, vs the slower developing fruit that evolves from attending to what is needed, instead of what is instantly pleasurable?
My size is "medium", if anyone would like to find a straight-jacket and send it to me. But you can't, because I haven't provided my shipping address.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-23-2014).]
Does being a comedian disqualify his remarks? Somebody should tell Senator Franken.
Clearly you already know who he is and didn't need to bother listening to the message. Please tell me what part of his argument you disagree with. He was talking about how the extremists are a problem for the moderate Muslims as well (among other things).
There are extremists in many religions. Those preaching tolerance and love to the mainstream aren't the ones you need to worry about. They never have been.
It's the same ammunition that people use for Colbert, and Stewart. Whenever someone doesn't like them..... "But they are just comedians"...
I don't expect that this gathering in Abu Dubai, which reminds me of another well attended forum that took place in Amman, Jordan in 2005 and became known as "The Amman Message", is going to stop the extremists in their tracks, or even slow them down in any noticeable way, in the short run. Maybe, if these latest efforts at combatting the extremists using Qur'an itself and the written history of Qur'anic interpretation (the very definition of Islam) are enlarged and sustained--which is an aspiration or objective of the group that convened in Abu Dubai--they will have a positive effect in terms of what is going on all around the world.
It won't, until groups meeting like this seriously address those making Islamic extremism possible and probable for the undetermined future.
Originally posted by Fats: It's the same ammunition that people use for Colbert, and Stewart. Whenever someone doesn't like them..... "But they are just comedians"...
Not speaking for those other folks, and their dismissals of these satirists (Stephen Colbert and John Stewart) as mere comedians.
I just explained why I don't accept the complete package from Pat Condell.
Anyone could say that my facts are actually not facts, or that my logic is not validly constructed (according to the commonly accepted rules of logic), but how can anyone fairly say (in view of my previous post) that I am dismissing Pat Condell as a mere comedian, without my trying to actually come to grips with his content? (Rhetorical question.)
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-24-2014).]
Not speaking for those other folks, and their dismissals of these satirists (Stephen Colbert and John Stewart) as mere comedians.
I just explained (in my second post on this thread) why I don't accept the complete package from Pat Condell.
Anyone could say that my facts are actually not facts, or that my logic is not validly constructed (according to the commonly accepted rules of logic), but how can anyone fairly say (in view of my second post here) that I am dismissing Pat Condell as a mere comedian, without my trying to actually come to grips with his content? (Rhetorical question.)
You had valid points, I have no argument with ya......today.
Originally posted by rinselberg: Condell et al are not speaking truly about Islam itself
I don't believe he was commenting on Islam itself, but certain types of Muslims. A recurring theme of his videos has been that while he finds religion silly, he doesn't care what religion you practice so long as you're decent to other people. It's what people do in the name of the religion that cause the problems.
I think he's spot on about the fear of offending Mulsims (speficially extremist Muslims, not the mild mannered peace loving ones).
Never forget on september 11 ,2001 every mosque in America,100% was collecting & sending money to a variety of terrorist organizations the below from page 268 of the book ""The Looming Tower"" ""once inside the defenceless city, the taliban continued raping & killing for 2 days,indiscriminately shooting anything that moved,, then slitting throats & shooting dead men in the testicles ,the bodies of the dead were left to wild dogs for 6 days before the survivors were allowed to bury them"" ............hundreds of al qaeda were with the Taliban
the Taliban air force bombed the Civilian survivors trying to escape. men , women & children were placed in shipping containers & baked alive in the desert sun ..400 of the best women were taken to be concubines Al qaeda is bigger than ever & muslems from all over the world send them vast amounts of money ! Obumbles is destroying our Military, killing much needed systems we need to fight the Russians & POS muslems ! Many of the The peaceful muslems in America will sing a different tune if power comes to them!! There is no end to the War with the Muslems, this is a War forever,never an end the Muslems are killing, murdering,slaughtering,beheading ,torturing ,bombing all over the world they are Like the orcs in the ring trilogy,canabalism is also in thier bag of fun tricks so very many could care less,, they figure they will never suffer ,it will be the other guy who gets blasted . sick of War?? more is comming
.......................................THEY ARE COMMING
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 03-26-2014).]
