The grandparents of a little girl in central Virginia decided to remove her from the private, Christian school where she had been an excellent student after receiving a letter complaining that their granddaughter’s dress and behavior didn’t “follow suit with her God-ordained identity.”
Sunnie Kahle, 8, sports a short haircut, likes to wear jeans and T-shirts, and collects autographed baseballs, her grandparents told CBS affiliate WDBJ7. She also maintained a 4.0 average at Timberlake Christian School and steered clear of any disciplinary issues, save for her desire to wear boy’s pants as part of her school uniform. (According to the school’s dress code, both elementary boys and girls are allowed to wear pants, but only boys are allowed jeans.)
The letter to Sunnie’s grandparents, who have raised her from infancy, did not mention any specific violations of the school’s dress code, however, but rather “several occasions when the other students, particularly those who do not know Sunnie personally, have been confused about whether she is a boy or a girl.” Although the school did not expel Sunnie, the letter did ask that she not be re-enrolled next fall unless steps are taken to change her behavior.
Timberlake Christian School reserves the right to refuse admission or discontinue enrollment of any student whose behavior or family conduct is “counter to or in opposition to the biblical lifestyle,” according to the letter, posted online by ABC affiliate WSET. “This includes, but is not necessarily limited to, living in, condoning or supporting sexual immorality; practicing homosexual lifestyle or alternative gender identity; promoting such practices; or otherwise having the inability to support the moral principles of the school.”
Sunnie’s grandparents were outraged, and decided to put her in public school instead.
“To claim that we are condoning sexual immorality in our home is nonsense,” said Doris Thompson, Sunnie’s grandmother, to WDBJ7. “We are Christians. We understand the Bible. Sunnie knows it very well. She has accepted Christ.”
School officials declined a request to speak with msnbc, referring the matter instead to Liberty Counsel, a nonprofit litigation, education and policy organization. Timberlake administrator Jeff Abbett did send a statement to WDBJ7, however, saying the school was “heart-broken” over the latest developments.
“You can be assured that we have cared for Sunnie and worked with her grandparents for several years to assist them,” read the statement. “Our TCS teachers and administrators love Sunnie and we can assure everyone that this has never been an issue of hair length or boots as it has been portrayed. It has been our constant desire over the last several years to work with this family and to shepherd this precious little girl in a way consistent with traditional values.”
As for Sunnie, her grandparents say she misses the Christian school and the friends she made there.
“I should just be able to be me and not let them worry about it,” the 8-year-old told WDBJ7.
Timberlake Christian School reserves the right to refuse admission or discontinue enrollment of any student whose behavior or family conduct is “counter to or in opposition to the biblical lifestyle,” according to the letter, posted online by ABC affiliate WSET. “This includes, but is not necessarily limited to, living in, condoning or supporting sexual immorality; practicing homosexual lifestyle or alternative gender identity; promoting such practices; or otherwise having the inability to support the moral principles of the school.”
The part "counter to or in opposition to the biblical lifestyle. This includes, but is not necessarily limited to," stumps me. So, they could actually go beyond what the book "allows"?
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 03-26-2014).]
To me, "accepting" Christ sounds like "OK, fine, I surrender..."
You assume a certain amount of lack of understanding. My eight year old has a perfect grasp of Christ's finished work on the Cross.
Yes, she has also "surrendered" to Christ, as I did when I was 19. I surrendered myself to my wife when I married her out of love, and she to me the same. My children have surrendered to Christ not blindly - they understand the logic of the state of the world, the atonement and substitutive work of Jesus and the forgiveness and freedom that that act offers - but in the same way my wife and I surrendered to each other out of love for each other.
I don't expect you to accept the difference, but I know that you comprehend them. My eight year old is not stupid, nor, I suspect, is the young lady in the story. As has been stated, it is a private institution, and, sometimes, the dress code is designed so that attendees don't have to buy a uniform, but should look similar to others at school. One reason is to keep class issues out of school, as some can afford designer clothes and others can't, thus avoiding myriad issues between students. My children's school has a similar dress code, though a little looser. Jeans are permitted only on certain days (Spirit days, supporting school sports or other benefits), pants can only be tan or black, polo shirts white, black or maroon, though black on black is not allowed. My older son can wear his team uniform on game days. Chapel day is short and tie for the boys and skirts or jumpers with bouses for the girls. The school is a family, and all act as family.
A leaf is alive and useful when it is green and attached to the tree. When it turns fiery red, bright yellow or other colors, those are its "true" colors, but that is also when the leaf dies.
She didn't dress according to the dress code that the school required of everyone else.
She didn't act according to the moral standards that the schools requires of everyone else.
It's not a public school, it's a private school. They have the right to say yay or nay.
Brad
Public schools can kick you out for dress code ( and bad behaviors ) too.
And good the family has learned an important less on how stupid organized religion is, and that she learned it early in life and will hopefully not repeat the mistake of her parents.
Long ago, In grade school ( before you could chose your public school and were stuck with what was in your district ), my sister had a problem with a particular teacher. The school refused to deal with it, so my parents pulled her out and stuck her in a 'christian' school for a year ( the only thing local..). After about 8 months she figured out they were not really about education but programming and and indoctrination, and wanted to go back to public school, even with the teacher problem. The next year she went back to public. Thankfully the bad teacher had quit by then....
[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 03-27-2014).]
Yeah, it seems pretty cut and dry. They don't want girls to wear jeans. But I'm sure there's more going on here...
I doubt it. Flaming religious types will go off the deep end just because you are not like them. If you are not the obedient little robot you dont fit in.
I doubt it. Flaming religious types will go off the deep end just because you are not like them. If you are not the obedient little robot you dont fit in.
It's what caused the problem. The kid should never have been enrolled there by the grandparents if they were'n't willing to follow the rules that were in place at the time of enrollment or if they were just too stupid to understand the rules.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-27-2014).]
OK, so she's a chubby little girl who likes sports and has an unflattering short haircut. What specifically is the violation?
Someone at that school is over-reacting to a problem that simply does not exist, and its not the family or the kid.
The problem is that she is not an obedient little female doing as she is told. So yes, the problem does exist, for the church. ( from the statement "god ordained identity" you cant make that stuff up. )
[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 03-27-2014).]
I understand that the girl dressing like a boy isn't a big deal, and I really don't care about this, but what if it was a boy wearing high heels and dresses?
What if he let his pants sag, and just wore womens (girls) thong underwear all the time?
I understand that the girl dressing like a boy isn't a big deal, and I really don't care about this, but what if it was a boy wearing high heels and dresses?
What if he let his pants sag, and just wore womens (girls) thong underwear all the time?
Brad
In my school when i was a kid no one would have cared if a boy wore a dress. If you didn't pull your pants up you would be offered a belt.
I understand that the girl dressing like a boy isn't a big deal, and I really don't care about this, but what if it was a boy wearing high heels and dresses?
That isn't the issue.
The girl has not violated the dress code. Girls are allowed to wear pants at that school, just not jeans. But the article did not say she was wearing jeans.
Perhaps the school should change the rule so that no girls can wear pants? That way, the ones with bad haircuts won't accidently look like boys (seriously, I'll bet her grandma cut her hair! She'd probably look better if she had been taken to a salon).
[This message has been edited by css9450 (edited 03-27-2014).]
It has been our constant desire over the last several years to work with this family and to shepherd this precious little girl in a way consistent with traditional values.
And that there is why i disagree with organized religion and say its nothing more than a scam. Closed minded pricks. Screw them and their perceived values, if the girl wants to wear pants and short hair, let her. Who are they to tell another human being what they can or cant do, think, or believe. Its not THEIR job to dictate and judge. Its their supposed god.
Grandparents should have seen what was going on years ago and pulled her out so she could grow up in a non-bigoted environment that appreciates people for who they are, not what they are not, and doesnt force people ( children ) into little boxes to serve their needs.
[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 03-27-2014).]
I find it hard to believe no one would have cared if a boy wore a dress. Want to explain how or why?
Believe what you want. I was there. As a group we would not have cared. In fact, in highschool we did have kids that were openly gay. No one judged them, or if they did they kept their damned mouths shut as they knew it would not have been taken well by the rest of us. In middle school they were more closeted, but they existed and we all knew it.
We also had people with mental, emotional and physical issues in highschool, and again we were not running around making fun of them. Even the girls who got pregnant were not made fun of. ( tho they didn't stay around long, 5 or 6 months and they were gone to prepare for having the baby ).
The people i grew up with didn't cause commotions, ( our biggest 'thing' we did in high school was we tossed a box of munchkins around one morning in the cafeteria, every other senior class did something so we had to come up with something... we even cleaned up our mess ), didn't hurt anyone, weren't out stealing stuff... we respected our elders, and stuck to what we were there for, learning. About the only event we had was when one of our classmates was killed in 6th grade in a car accident, due to a drunk driver. So we learned that lesson early.
Sorry if you grew up with a bunch of stupid ass self-serving heathens, but i didn't.
Originally posted by User00013170: Believe what you want. I was there. As a group we would not have cared. In fact, in highschool we did have kids that were openly gay. No one judged them, or if they did they kept their damned mouths shut as they knew it would not have been taken well by the rest of us. In middle school they were more closeted, but they existed and we all knew it.
We also had people with mental, emotional and physical issues in highschool, and again we were not running around making fun of them. Even the girls who got pregnant were not made fun of. ( tho they didn't stay around long, 5 or 6 months and they were gone to prepare for having the baby ).
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Pretty rare if true. I was made fun of just for glasses, or a hat, or poor kid clothes, or not playing bball, or being quiet.
You say as a group, you mean all students and faculty or just your group of friends?
Believe what you want. I was there. As a group we would not have cared. In fact, in highschool we did have kids that were openly gay. No one judged them, or if they did they kept their damned mouths shut as they knew it would not have been taken well by the rest of us. In middle school they were more closeted, but they existed and we all knew it.
We also had people with mental, emotional and physical issues in highschool, and again we were not running around making fun of them. Even the girls who got pregnant were not made fun of. ( tho they didn't stay around long, 5 or 6 months and they were gone to prepare for having the baby ).
The people i grew up with didn't cause commotions, ( our biggest 'thing' we did in high school was we tossed a box of munchkins around one morning in the cafeteria, every other senior class did something so we had to come up with something... we even cleaned up our mess ), didn't hurt anyone, weren't out stealing stuff... we respected our elders, and stuck to what we were there for, learning. About the only event we had was when one of our classmates was killed in 6th grade in a car accident, due to a drunk driver. So we learned that lesson early.
Sorry if you grew up with a bunch of stupid ass self-serving heathens, but i didn't.
Did you happen to make it back to your school after they remolded it recently?
I went to 16 different schools across the country, and every single one of them was exactly the same when it came to how the students picked on each other. Your Twilight zone version is nice, but only existed in your version of reality man.
Brad
[This message has been edited by Fats (edited 03-27-2014).]
Pretty rare if true. I was made fun of just for glasses, or a hat, or poor kid clothes, or not playing bball, or being quiet.
You say as a group, you mean all students and faculty or just your group of friends?
Honestly cant say about faculty, we stuck to business and didn't get overly friendly with them as a rule ( and in lower grades would not have noticed anyway ). Yes i am talking the entire class, not just 'my group'. To be fair I do admit there might have been one or 2 jerks as you cant see into someones head.. but as a group we did not, so they never acted that way and we never heard about it.
We did have a bully in middle school, but he was 2 grades older so not technically part of my class. He tried something first week of our class arriving from grade school, and we ( i ) put him in his place as it was not going to be tolerated by us at all. ( his place was into a locker door, with a free broken nose. He was kind enough to pick up my books off the floor before he wandered off bleeding on the floor )
Originally posted by Fats: I went to 16 different schools across the country, and every single one of them was exactly the same when it came to how the students picked on each other. Your Twilight zone version is nice, but only existed in your version of reality man.
Brad
Same answer as above, its too bad where you lived your 'peers' sucked.
Honestly cant say about faculty, we stuck to business and didn't get overly friendly with them as a rule ( and in lower grades would not have noticed anyway ). Yes i am talking the entire class, not just 'my group'. To be fair I do admit there might have been one or 2 jerks as you cant see into someones head.. but as a group we did not, so they never acted that way and we never heard about it.
We did have a bully in middle school, but he was 2 grades older so not technically part of my class. He tried something first week of our class arriving from grade school, and we ( i ) put him in his place as it was not going to be tolerated by us at all. ( his place was into a locker door, with a free broken nose. He was kind enough to pick up my books off the floor before he wandered off bleeding on the floor )
I had glasses in 3rd grade..
Yes i mean the whole school though, not just your class. On buses, lunchbreak, hallways, etc. Faculty too, as in this case faculty and school rules were involved. The thing about most schools is the kid who gave the broken nose would get punished. Sounds like yours was very hands off. Just trying to clarify.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 03-27-2014).]
Yes i mean the whole school though, not just your class. On buses, lunchbreak, hallways, etc. Faculty too, as in this case faculty and school rules were involved. The thing about most schools is the kid who gave the broken nose would get punished. Sounds like yours was very hands off. Just trying to clarify.
I cant answer about other grades without lying. We didn't intermingle much. They kept the grades separated ( at least until highschool, then i was no longer in the public system and everything was different ). I can say in the neighborhood i didn't see any of it across age groups. But i do admit im not magic and was not everywhere all the time... just that we were all friends and got along as far as i know there too ( we even helped each other out in the event of bad things happening in the area, like blizzards and tornadoes ).
As far as the bloody nose, this was before you had cameras and cops in schools.. I doubt the kid ever reported the facts out of shame, and even if he did and the school complained about an act of self-defense my father would have been down on them so fast they would not know what to do. it would have been a bad scene
I doubt the kid ever reported the facts out of shame, and even if he did and the school complained about an act of self-defense my father would have been down on them so fast they would not know what to do. it would have been a bad scene
Was your father in a special position of authority? Or a lawyer?
Was your father in a special position of authority? Or a lawyer?
Anyway hopefully not getting off topic too much..
Not in this state, but he was on the bar of the previous state we lived in while in grade school. He was also a business owner in the area. He was also a person that would have made an example of a situation like that. We were taught to stand up for ourselves ( and think for ourselves ), and he would support such an act.
And trying to get close to the topic he would have been all over the school with this girl in the topic too.
[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 03-27-2014).]
