we now have 2 supporters of Americas enemies ,, how quickly men become traitors,sellouts ,turncoats to thier own country much easier when you are an atheist & support our enemies for small reasons
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
We either believe this for what it says, or we don't. It says ALL MEN, not all Americans--not all men except those we have a gripe with, not all men except those who align themselves with someone we have a gripe with, not all men except those of a different ethnicity or skin color than what we happen to be -- it says ALL MEN.
If Eastern Ukraine wants to be free from Kiev's rule and wants to fall under Russian Sovereignty or independence, short of being hypocrites, we have no other option than to allow them the the basic right of self determination.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-06-2014).]
We either believe this for what it says, or we don't. It says ALL MEN, not all Americans--not all men except those we have a gripe with, not all men except those who align themselves with someone we have a gripe with, not all men except those of a different ethnicity or skin color than what we happen to be -- it says ALL MEN.
If Eastern Ukraine wants to be free from Kiev's rule and wants to fall under Russian Sovereignty or independence, short of being hypocrites, we have no other option than to allow them the the basic right of self determination.
Arent there a few being abused though, as many paragraphs in this thread indicate, what about their unalienable Rights? Also are you saying Putin will stop expanding when he reaches the middle fo the Ukraine?
Originally posted by maryjane: If Eastern Ukraine wants to be free from Kiev's rule and wants to fall under Russian Sovereignty or independence, short of being hypocrites, we have no other option than to allow them the the basic right of self determination.
I agree. The problem we have is not knowing what the Ukrainians truly want and what it being manipulated by Russia. The difficult part to follow is that the desire to join Russia came after Russian troops moved into the area. I'd have an easier time believing it was genuine self determination if the Russian military wasn't already there and they were invited in.
There are always going to be some who are "abused" in any civil war, and civil war, tho currently a fledgling one, is what we are seeing in Ukraine. This whole thing, like most conflicts thru out the ages is about resources, and autonomous ownership of those resources. As with most nations, Ukraine has a region of users and a region of providers of those resources. The western region, is a large population center that has heavy industry, tech communication plants, large textile factories and needs raw material imports from the southern and Eastern regions, and of course, that population has to be fed, and power provided. The Crimean/Odessan oil and gas fields are considered close to depletion, but with new fracking tech, there is a lot more that can be recovered, and the offshore region of Crimea is thought to contain substantial reserves of both crude oil and natural gas.
The breadbasket of East and outhern Ukraine is legendary. Most of the agriculture, especially wheat, is located in this region. Contrast that map with the language and ethnic map and you begin to see what the ramifications of a geo-political are: and the population dispersal map:
The West (US/EU/NATO) had offered a path into the EU and even eventual admission into NATO if Ukraine rejected Putin's EuroRussia plan. This was a Russian plan to directly compete against the EU in trading both raw materials and finished goods. Everyone screaming about Russian intervention into Ukraine (Kiev's) affairs would be on opposite sides if Southern/Eastern provinces still belonged to Russia as they did during the early days of the USSR. The same people who are currently so upset about Crimea's return to Russia would be yelling at the top of thier lungs that these areas should have an unalienable right to self detemination, instead of opposing it.
IMO, the US/EU/North America should have made a long lasting economic trading agreement with Putin the first time he was in power, in order to fully compete against the greater economic enemy--China/India (and soon enough the African sub-continent)
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-06-2014).]
Great info, Don! Thanks. The language map is a bit misleading, though. The stark colors showing the difference between the "Ukraine" and "Russian" speaking areas, when even the darkest blue areas at just over 50% Russian speaking. It's good info but it's only in the darkest blue regions that the majority identifies "Russian" as their primary language.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 05-06-2014).]
this is all orchestrated by Putin,he is the puppet master! they now are using civilians on the barricades,to deter the Ukraine military they are in a lose,lose.lose situation .the violent vocal Russian speakers want to bond with Russia,this is probably only 10% of the Russian speakers but they are very belligerent & beating any Ukraine Or Russian speakers who are against them amny people can not work ,pensioners are not paid because the government buildings are held by terrorist,,this will destroy the Ukraine ,a country we need as another bulkward against our enemy Russia ,& Russia wants Ukraine to help build the new soviet empire Putin wants Glory for Russia & it looks like his present policy will work for him.. There is no need to invade when 1,000,000 Russian speakers are working for him to fight & destroy Ukraine ,Putin has created a violent hate among people who previously got along how fragile the relationship is among people,a real hate of your neighbor is building in Ukraine
the kurds are not fighting in the main Syrian scuffle ,the pesh merga have other problems ,almost all the fighters on both sides hate Christians,,bagdagdaddy wants to hurt & kill americans,we can only hope the Syrians fight & kill each other for 50 years. The more the muslems fight each other the less time they have to kill Israeli,s & Americans there is no relationship between the declaration of independence & fierogtit1 weirdo hate against Ukraine & ,support of Putin & Yellowstone support of muslem murdering terrorist who hate America just to polk uhlanstan
this is a serious crisis with our #1 enemy & the OT hate should be elsewhere so forum members can be informed
[This message has been edited by ranger stone (edited 05-06-2014).]
this is all orchestrated by Putin,he is the puppet master! they now are using civilians on the barricades,to deter the Ukraine military they are in a lose,lose.lose situation .the violent vocal Russian speakers want to bond with Russia,this is probably only 10% of the Russian speakers but they are very belligerent & beating any Ukraine Or Russian speakers who are against them amny people can not work ,pensioners are not paid because the government buildings are held by terrorist,,this will destroy the Ukraine ,a country we need as another bulkward against our enemy Russia ,& Russia wants Ukraine to help build the new soviet empire Putin wants Glory for Russia & it looks like his present policy will work for him.. There is no need to invade when 1,000,000 Russian speakers are working for him to fight & destroy Ukraine ,Putin has created a violent hate among people who previously got along how fragile the relationship is among people,a real hate of your neighbor is building in Ukraine
the kurds are not fighting in the main Syrian scuffle ,the pesh merga have other problems ,almost all the fighters on both sides hate Christians,,bagdagdaddy wants to hurt & kill americans,we can only hope the Syrians fight & kill each other for 50 years. The more the muslems fight each other the less time they have to kill Israeli,s & Americans there is no relationship between the declaration of independence & fierogtit1 weirdo hate against Ukraine & ,support of Putin & Yellowstone support of muslem murdering terrorist who hate America just to polk uhlanstan
this is a serious crisis with our #1 enemy & the OT hate should be elsewhere so forum members can be informed
Quoted intact for posterity. We wouldn't want anything to happen to such a rare and unique nugget as this.
Yes, --well, not really related by birth---evidently one brother went USMC and the other went US Army Airborne Ranger. (profile) https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/132629.html (newt refers to Stan--short for Newton))
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I have known newt for 40 years we are military associates,belong to the same chapel ,our chaplain is one mean sob christian ..I rode scooters with newt ,we were in opposing motorcycle 1% social clubs as he says I am at his leanto shack right now he is off with some hag I do not have a computer ,,I normally use the library computer
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-07-2014).]
Ranger stone is black !! we are brothers from a different mother & known each other off & on for years ,he came to A Central florida fiero meeting seeking help & I decided to help him.. I have mention this a few times over the past 2 years he is the man I help build his Lotus rebody on a fiero, after the man I was helping do a lambo/fiero build lost interest ! I have a relationship with a cardiologist in Lugansk, the info below comes from her ,her hospital is the best in eastern Ukraine run to western standards I have been to Lugansk stay at the Domino hotel she has been 100% accurate & it takes a while for some of the info I recieve from her to hit the press!! I also communicate with a former announcer , now a T.V. reporter in Lugansk & of course my interpreter ,the buxom ms aleksandrova I also listen to interviews from congressmen return from Ukraine & russian speaker Lt. Col. frank Dowse who was at the Ukraine embassy 3 years.
from slavansk 2 teenage girls were shot a child on a balcony was shot by a russian sniper Ukraine speakers in slavansk now live in fear of russian speakers ,,some taken hostage Slavansk now strongly held by hundreds of armed men with military experience russian speaking civilians blocking Ukraine army movements calling them facist enemy of the innocent people some russian military capture admit it was all preplaned ,they knew long aggo they would inter Ukraine ofcourse this is well known now common knowledge Congressman Johnson recent return from Ukraine says they want basic weapontry like ammo & anti tank missiles A few weeks ago Obumbles refused the request anti tank missiles ,yet he had help the Libyans who hate us ! ...........................below from various news sources the fire in Odessa that killed so many was started by the russian speakers in the building. a man on top of the building dropped a molotav gas cocktail & a man dropped a molotav cocktail on the third floor about the same time ..there is video but the russians are blaming the ultra soccer fans outside the building, there is viseo showing russians shooting into the crowd hiding behind russian police lines I have dealt with the police in Odessa they seem corrupt a majority of Russians on the police force.. the kind of corruption the Ukrainians want to leave behind,,espeacialy in east Ukrane you have to pay off officials to get fast service ,but it is wide spread some of the dead from the fire had I.D, from foreign ,Moldova & trans Dieper, indicating they were convert russian military
Formula 88 no sweat,, not one of these cowards would come from behind thier computer to confront Ranger Jeffery Stone .not one would say a word to his face .a former heavy weight Boxer,Martial arts instructor ,a muscular weight lifter, a 6'1" bad to the bone Black man ,a ranger instructor ,airborne school black hat,who likes to hurt white boys !! he does not like white people..white Devils of course he will laugh out loud, at the panty boys who shout from safety !! ..I feared Ranger Stone,even before I was hurt so bad,he is scary looking , married to a smoking hot white woman,,& I am now 72 Years old,fat & slow,senile but none of these men, if before me would lift a finger against my lard butt ,knowing I will fight.. have the missing teeth to prove it
I have not lived as other men & neither has the highly decorated war hero of America Ranger Stone!! a walking breathing real Black John Wayne
hope you like his profile
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 05-07-2014).]
Mary jane do you really think I or ranger stone is a liar on this important subject?? 95% is taken from online newspaper USA & British,,MOSTLY LEFT WING, THE bbc, nbc cbs abc reports & the info is widely available ,easy to find every thing I have posted ended up in verifyable reports from legitimate news sources . I have many sources in Ukraine ,I have live there at 17 shevcheko street ,Odessa & travel to Ukraine 10 times in the past few years I lived with a Ukraine woman & her daughter in Florida
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 05-07-2014).]
Washington wants to punish Moscow by refusing to negotiate over a tax agreement that, if not approved by July 1, could mean steep penalties for Russian banks. Talks were suspended last month over an agreement to help Russian financial institutions comply with 2010's U.S. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA).
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 05-07-2014).]
Mary jane do you really think I or ranger stone is a liar on this important subject?? 95% is taken from online newspaper USA & British,,MOSTLY LEFT WING, THE bbc, nbc cbs abc reports & the info is widely available ,easy to find every thibg I have posted ended up in verifyable reports from legitimate news sources I have many sources in Ukraine ,I have live there at 17 shevcheko street ,Odessa & travel to Ukraine 10 times in the past few years I lived with a Ukraine woman & her daughter in Florida
I think you post so much sensationalist BS most of us don't believe even a very small fraction of any of it, including the quote above.
mary jane I have no idea why you would question my post ?? I have no idea why you would doubt My post ,,they are not sensational , Question? were you a Marine ?? or Corpsman ?? if you are an atheist ,it explains all !! If you do not believe I lived in Ukraine , or I travel there frequently ,solly bout that ,I have posted many times about my Ukraine travel exploits, I have a son by a Ukraine lady .. There is a civil war!! 90% of my post on Ukraine are taken from legitimate news source , that I have listed I recieve " The Guardian Today"daily.I recieve information from my private source,s that eventually are covered by the big news outlets.. today I recieve info that in severdonetsk there were shots fired all day I search Ukraine lanquage source first. this is one Https://news.pn they have bad english translation but there you can check it out ,I speak very little russian ,but can translate aided by a dictionary you have to google it ,you can not access from above you get Nikolaev to start I tried
english post are now available just google "shooting in severodonetsk""
...google shooting in severodonetsk OR shots fired in severodonetsk,this is still in russian,but news.pn has bad english version shots were fired all day in severdonetsk, this seem to be some sort of false flag operation as no way could pro Ukraine shoot up the town & rob any thing ,the place is filled with russian spetsnaz military ,with militia Pro Ukraine armed men supposely beat the severdonetsk militia chief & set fire to the military radar & rob someplace ..seems a false flag..
LUGANSK= VERY IMPORTANT city TO PUTIN =armed men assaulted the regional prosecutors office building may 7 & occupied it , the poobahs were held as hostage ..office staff workers were allow to exit building ,but order to stand outside,near the building to prevent police from retaking building ..Donetsk,Lugansk & Kharkov are the most important cities, Ukranians speaker have fought back in Kharkov,but are vastly outnumbered & the russian speakers are better organized & many have guns ,Rifles all my sources are frighten
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 05-07-2014).]
I was harassed by Uhlanstan to join this forum ,& then join central florida fiero ,I have monitored Pennock fiero forum for years after meeting members online of the forum, I can see a bunch of lying white honkys & mary jane is a honky liar,, hate for no reason other than to slam newt,NAME ONE THING THAT IS NOT TRUE ,JUST ONE !! just one you liar, you lie so easily it must be a long ingrain habit, just shows the white devil honkies I destest I will never join the CFF now I want to meet mary jane face to face, he needs a black attitude adjustment , Maryjane will need a trip to dental after he gets out of the hospital ,after our face to face meeting..then maryjane will know respect.TO BAD YOU HIDE BEHIND YOUR COMPUTER SO MANY MILES AWAY. you are not worthy in your world of lying, deceit to condem with out knowledge I have been following the Ukraine Russian military led rebellion,I do not see even one untrue statement newt is the only white boy I ever knew who help the black man for no gain .. Major Newton , Uhlanstan worked with austistic, cripple children as a soccer/ basketball coach,to give mothers a day off ! most were black,I help one day & they drove me crazy with their spastic activity & drooling ..spent most of the day trying to catch them. ,I was a contract soldier with Major Newton. ,He lives his life with integrity, honor & loyalty! rare qualities, yes he is an opinionated fat,loud mouth braggart but he lives his life as many of you wish you could in your false Macho dreams ..
I was harassed by Uhlanstan to join this forum ,& then join central florida fiero ,I have monitored Pennock fiero forum for years after meeting members online of the forum, I can see a bunch of lying white honkys & mary jane is a honky liar,, hate for no reason other than to slam newt,NAME ONE THING THAT IS NOT TRUE ,JUST ONE !! just one you liar, you lie so easily it must be a long ingrain habit, just shows the white devil honkies I destest I will never join the CFF now I want to meet mary jane face to face, he needs a black attitude adjustment , Maryjane will need a trip to dental after he gets out of the hospital ,after our face to face meeting..then maryjane will know respect.TO BAD YOU HIDE BEHIND YOUR COMPUTER SO MANY MILES AWAY. you are not worthy in your world of lying, deceit to condem with out knowledge I have been following the Ukraine Russian military led rebellion,I do not see even one untrue statement newt is the only white boy I ever knew who help the black man for no gain .. Major Newton , Uhlanstan worked with austistic, cripple children as a soccer/ basketball coach,to give mothers a day off ! most were black,I help one day & they drove me crazy with their spastic activity & drooling ..spent most of the day trying to catch them. ,I was a contract soldier with Major Newton. ,He lives his life with integrity, honor & loyalty! rare qualities, yes he is an opinionated fat,loud mouth braggart but he lives his life as many of you wish you could in your false Macho dreams ..
Obvious Stan is Obvious!
BTW obvious Stan you may not enjoy the backlash for slagging MaryJane. I may disagree with him many times but he has my respect!
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 05-08-2014).]
I can see a bunch of lying white honkys & mary jane is a honky liar,, hate for no reason other than to slam newt,NAME ONE THING THAT IS NOT TRUE ,JUST ONE !! just one you liar, you lie so easily it must be a long ingrain habit, just shows the white devil honkies I destest I will never join the CFF now .. ..
Ok ..without comment to much else, I do recommend you do some more research before labeling a guy like MJ. I recommend backing up the statements made that are claimed to be true, rather than violent threats. It can also be said respect goes both ways, even when skin color is not regarded at all.
I was harassed by Uhlanstan to join this forum ,& then join central florida fiero ,I have monitored Pennock fiero forum for years after meeting members online of the forum, I can see a bunch of lying white honkys & mary jane is a honky liar,, hate for no reason other than to slam newt,NAME ONE THING THAT IS NOT TRUE ,JUST ONE !! just one you liar, you lie so easily it must be a long ingrain habit, just shows the white devil honkies I destest I will never join the CFF now I want to meet mary jane face to face, he needs a black attitude adjustment , Maryjane will need a trip to dental after he gets out of the hospital ,after our face to face meeting..then maryjane will know respect.TO BAD YOU HIDE BEHIND YOUR COMPUTER SO MANY MILES AWAY. you are not worthy in your world of lying, deceit to condem with out knowledge I have been following the Ukraine Russian military led rebellion,I do not see even one untrue statement newt is the only white boy I ever knew who help the black man for no gain .. Major Newton , Uhlanstan worked with austistic, cripple children as a soccer/ basketball coach,to give mothers a day off ! most were black,I help one day & they drove me crazy with their spastic activity & drooling ..spent most of the day trying to catch them. ,I was a contract soldier with Major Newton. ,He lives his life with integrity, honor & loyalty! rare qualities, yes he is an opinionated fat,loud mouth braggart but he lives his life as many of you wish you could in your false Macho dreams ..
You can take your bravado and racism and shove em up your ass.
Now personally, I wouldn't get off a bar stool for the likes of you but I am easy to find if you want to invest your own energy into it.
Go visit Don first though. That way I'll be guaranteed never have to look upon your racist ass.
I don't have any black or white attitude but here is some American attitude for you
I had plan to fly to Ukraine & take part in the Odessa rally ,I was to leave the day of the big storm in the southeast & maily florida my jetblue flight was delay 5 hours ,I knew I might not make my flight ukraine international 232 but flew to New york , missed it by 15 minutes would have made it but a lady decide she did not want to take off in such bad weather & we had a futher delay. ......
while I may disagree with ALOT of what uhlanstan posts - I find this to be worthy of alot of respect.
I was harassed by Uhlanstan to join this forum ,& then join central florida fiero ,I have monitored Pennock fiero forum for years after meeting members online of the forum, I can see a bunch of lying white honkys & mary jane is a honky liar,, hate for no reason other than to slam newt,NAME ONE THING THAT IS NOT TRUE ,JUST ONE !! just one you liar, you lie so easily it must be a long ingrain habit, just shows the white devil honkies I destest I will never join the CFF now I want to meet mary jane face to face, he needs a black attitude adjustment , Maryjane will need a trip to dental after he gets out of the hospital ,after our face to face meeting..then maryjane will know respect.TO BAD YOU HIDE BEHIND YOUR COMPUTER SO MANY MILES AWAY. you are not worthy in your world of lying, deceit to condem with out knowledge I have been following the Ukraine Russian military led rebellion,I do not see even one untrue statement newt is the only white boy I ever knew who help the black man for no gain .. Major Newton , Uhlanstan worked with austistic, cripple children as a soccer/ basketball coach,to give mothers a day off ! most were black,I help one day & they drove me crazy with their spastic activity & drooling ..spent most of the day trying to catch them. ,I was a contract soldier with Major Newton. ,He lives his life with integrity, honor & loyalty! rare qualities, yes he is an opinionated fat,loud mouth braggart but he lives his life as many of you wish you could in your false Macho dreams ..
Major Newton? uhlanstan, is on record here at PFF as saying he served as a L/cpl. That's a pretty big jump, from E-3 to 0-4. Even from an E-5 sgt to Major is a huge jump.
quote
Originally posted by uhlanstan:I was a gung ho hard charger, a lance corporal,who many of the men respected ,but seen as a bookworm untill I won my stripes by fist fighting my opponent for the l/cpl rank,
I was an officer in the Angola ovimbundo army & have held various ranks in other armies & could care less what the empty hearted atheist liars think of me Ranger stone is furious do not think he will be around much longer ..I do not have to invent people to take on the empty heart atheist who kill our children & in the 80s made so many elementary children cry when the atheist attack god & our schools & Christmas Atheist are trying to destroy our society ,our schools., our families! thier hate at christmas is most apparent atheist are united in thier hate & contempt of American values with their allies the muslems ,mutual aims.. atheist are the most mistrusted group in America because the majority are liars & thiefs they have low morals Surveys show Atheist to be the most mistrusted group in America Atheist are intolerant, just look at this forum ,,they drive many young Fiero owners away. with thier hate & intolerance !!. BEWARE OF MINDLESS INTOLERANCE & HATE ,because so many atheist are empty inside,, atheist kill maim & massacre thousands of children & adults every year .. the rise of atheism has increased the number innocent victims in direct proportion to thier growth Tm Mc veigh ?? another atheist Sandy hook?? just another killing atheist empty monster ..atheist hate equality, they hope destroying society ,american values & the family will bring on the atheist Satanic cults & atheist based devil worshipping will destroy the american family & founding fathers christian values ..YES the founding fathers including Jefferson & Franklin thought ""the hand of god was on America"" , ..The atheist alliance declaration is that religion must be destroyed to enjoy a secular America .. super moron richard dawkins spoke at the alliance convention ,he made zero sense, he makes a lot of money from the idiots who join his personal atheist hate group Please,please , the atheist Poobah,s want you to wear a white shirt with a big red A on it.. please do so we can tell who the mass killers & LIARs are.. you can tell on this FORUM who they are?? bullying, ranting,intimidation,along with there democratic allies ,I rant right with them, the communist ,marxist & Nazi,s are their guideline & gods .. the rise of atheist radical secularism wanting to kill Christianity & the family is one strong factor bringing America down, they attempt every day to destroy hospitals, schools,& christian help centers & church led welfare ..atheist so not care who gets hurt as long as they hurt,crushed or destroy Christians , the good people & Christians must fight evil ! there is a real rise in evil & the atheist satan worshipers rise at the same pace !! I loved when the atheist tore down the veterans cross & an old Iwo Jima veteran who could not walk , lunged from his wheel chair & grab 2 of them, & beat the snot out of them
Oh!! Ukraine military attack the Mariupol police staion unclear how many were killed !! A BUNCH OF RUSSIANS !! POLICE STATION BURN DOWN photos,show it still standing,but burning . LATER A POLICE COMMANDER WAS KILLED BY A SNIPER & A POLICEMAN WAS WOUNDED the Ukrainians can not win this one it is a loosing battle
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 05-09-2014).]
Stan sez never trust an atheist. Is it because you can't trust someone who don't believe in something they can't see? How does that equate to untrustworthy?
Stan sez never trust an atheist. Is it because you can't trust someone who don't believe in something they can't see? How does that equate to untrustworthy?
Haven't you heard? They are (according to uhlanstan)--- intolerant, hateful, and they take joy in calling people liars.
Haven't you heard? They are (according to uhlanstan)--- intolerant, hateful, and they take joy in calling people liars.
OMG, now it all falls into place! Uhlanstan is a closet atheist, by his own definition! Come out of the closet, Stan, you'll see how liberating it is! We're waiting for you, Stan. Come. Come.
I spoke to a native Ukrainian (from the western part of the country) today and she told me that many people there think that it would be best to let the Russian-speakers in the east and south become independent or join Russia and get one with it without the constant quarreling that would paralyze the country if it stayed in one piece...
