HOORAH !! the atheistas are spending hundreds of millions to destroy America s right to pray Millions to destroy American values this right has been strongly affirmed by the court.in the Greece N.Y. decision the atheist want to destroy the american family & religion !! screw the heartless empty hearted atheist & there muslem allies .. a few here on this forum have written to me, that they are going to leave the forum because of the LOUD hate filled atheist !STAY on the Fiero forum ,just avoid the scum if a few have written it means many more are effected ! I have thick skin honed on the hot anvil of war by killing a pick up truck load of communist,muslems & atheist Murderers & other assorted enemies of America & western values STAY ON THE FIERO FORUM just leave the LIAR democrats & atheist dirt to uhlanstan they all hate me !! ,I LOVE IT , GOTTEN TO OLD TO FIGHT...A bunch of sissies atheist insulting uhlanstan in a callous contemptious way is raw meat to a real FIGHTING warrior Christian man ,,umm good,good bear meat for ugh Our christian religion is part of what defines American values,so do not let the loud mouth atheist kill this forum keep GOD keep your Fiero ..it is a unique car.. stay out of the hate filled atheist post ,they seem to be a low information stupid humourless lot ! Al qaeda yellowstone IMBECILE leads the humourless pack ..never could understand why those who believe in nothing want to destroy America values ,, when the Christians are gone there will be no America ,, Gods hand was on the founding of America ,, the atheist want it removed they have done more than any one to destroy America from within ther god is wimp Obumbles & the other corrupt democrats who destroy America a little at a time many worship the devil did you know the atheist have churches ?? weird
I keep saying this over and over and over. Christians only have themselves to blame for all of the action to make sure religion and government never touch in any way shape or from. If you use your religion as a shield to defend your social political opinions, don't be surprised when those you use it against do whatever they can to rip it from your hands. It's not atheists so much as it's political groups that are tired of being beaten over the head with religion.
It is a sad comment on the state of our society that the Supreme Court even had to consider hearing the case. Think whatever you want about Stan (he doesn't care), but his message is to the point and very true. This country was founded on Christian principles and values, and evil is afoot working and succeeding in destroying our nation.
It is a sad comment on the state of our society that the Supreme Court even had to consider hearing the case. Think whatever you want about Stan (he doesn't care), but his message is to the point and very true. This country was founded on Christian principles and values, and evil is afoot working and succeeding in destroying our nation.
It's not evil, it's Christians trying to make others live by their standards, and using the Bible to justify it. Every time a Christian beats some gay person over the head with their Bible with quotes about the evils of their lifestyle, and tries to use religion to justify their agenda and opinions, they're helping to build the foundation on which those people will stand in order to further separate religion from Government in every imaginable way. You can't have it both ways. You can't try to use the Bible as a tool in social politics, and then not expect it to come under fire. If you want to keep religion or any notion of religious context as an element of our government, then stop holding it up like a shield. If you don't make it an issue, it won't be an issue. I would prefer there to remain the tradition of prayer and the notion of God at least as a symbol of something greater in our government. And it pisses me off that people who are afraid to stand behind their opinions on their own think using the Bible as justification for their prejudices is a good idea. And then have the audacity to act surprised when it's ripped from their hands.
It's not evil, it's Christians trying to make others live by their standards, and using the Bible to justify it. Every time a Christian beats some gay person over the head with their Bible with quotes about the evils of their lifestyle, and tries to use religion to justify their agenda and opinions, they're helping to build the foundation on which those people will stand in order to further separate religion from Government in every imaginable way. You can't have it both ways. You can't try to use the Bible as a tool in social politics, and then not expect it to come under fire. If you want to keep religion or any notion of religious context as an element of our government, then stop holding it up like a shield. If you don't make it an issue, it won't be an issue. I would prefer there to remain the tradition of prayer and the notion of God at least as a symbol of something greater in our government. And it pisses me off that people who are afraid to stand behind their opinions on their own think using the Bible as justification for their prejudices is a good idea. And then have the audacity to act surprised when it's ripped from their hands.
To some extent, I agree, however I see the sociopolitical issues as a sideshow to the real problems this country faces; erosion of the family unit, out of control spending, and the deconstruction of the Constitution.
To some extent, I agree, however I see the sociopolitical issues as a sideshow to the real problems this country faces; erosion of the family unit, out of control spending, and the deconstruction of the Constitution.
I don't disagree that those are real problems, but those aren't going to be fixed by beating people over the head with the Bible. I don't think it's a sidehshow at all. People try to use the Bible as justification to promote the good things in life, instead of just promoting the good things themselves. Don't focus on what you *don't want*, focus on what you *want*.
This country was founded on Christian principles and values, and evil is afoot working and succeeding in destroying our nation.
This country was not founded on Christian principals and vallues. I am in no way saying that most values put forth by Christians are not worthy and people may lead better lives by trying to adhere to them, but none the less it is still simply not true.
The second part I have to agree with.
This has been brought up countless times on the forum and links and history HAS been provided to back it up.
This country was not founded on Christian principals and vallues. I am in no way saying that most values put forth by Christians are not worthy and people may lead better lives by trying to adhere to them, but none the less it is still simply not true. .
I'm pretty sure that's not right. Maybe you define them differently.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-08-2014).]
This country was not founded on Christian principals and vallues. I am in no way saying that most values put forth by Christians are not worthy and people may lead better lives by trying to adhere to them, but none the less it is still simply not true.
The second part I have to agree with.
This has been brought up countless times on the forum and links and history HAS been provided to back it up.
Because this country is free, you are entitled to have your erroneous opinion, as am I. Anything can be proven by cherry picking the writings of our Founders.
while not a religious person of any "popular flavor", I do 100% support this decision. freedom of (and from) religion means YES - you CAN pray - as you like.
just dont make me do it, and its all A-OK.
but - no - this country was NOT founded on "christian principals". It may have had a good percentage of christians, but they clearly made sure to NOT make ANY religion, or lack thereof, carry any weight. Tho we do clearly see the christian influence in the following genocide of "the savages".
Praying is a harmless act, unless you hold other peoples hands during a group prayer.
I don't see any issue with people praying at council meetings, school or whatever.
Although I know those who are real Christian have no use to comment in this thread, versus the posers who are hate filler and vile, just their postings alone show you that. The non-Christians like Stan, olejoe, 2.5 and etc
They are not the voice of Christianity on this forum and far from knowing the facts of history.
Wait till a Muslim or Buddhist prayer is done in a council meeting and watch the hate that spews from that awful person known as Stan come posting away.
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 05-08-2014).]
Because this country is free, you are entitled to have your erroneous opinion, as am I. Anything can be proven by cherry picking the writings of our Founders.
Nothing erroneous about it, not an "opinion" it is a fact.
It is my belief that this country was founded on capitalism. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Properly maintained, it's a cow that just keeps on giving.
At all AA meetings in southern Calif. and I assume all over, at the end of the meeting everyone moves in a circle around the walls, holding hands and we recite the Lords Prayer.
At all AA meetings in southern Calif. and I assume all over, at the end of the meeting everyone moves in a circle around the walls, holding hands and we recite the Lords Prayer.
Makes sense. The 12 Steps:
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 05-08-2014).]
Praying is a harmless act, unless you hold other peoples hands during a group prayer.
I don't see any issue with people praying at council meetings, school or whatever.
Although I know those who are real Christian have no use to comment in this thread, versus the posers who are hate filler and vile, just their postings alone show you that. The non-Christians like Stan, olejoe, 2.5 and etc
They are not the voice of Christianity on this forum and far from knowing the facts of history.
Wait till a Muslim or Buddhist prayer is done in a council meeting and watch the hate that spews from that awful person known as Stan come posting away.
It's olejoedad. At least be accurate when you are wrong. My comment refers to you calling Jesus a communist. Socialist, maybe; communist, no. As to Christian values, yes this country was founded by Christians who feared a State sponsored religion; therefore the separation of Church and State provisions in our Founding Documents. The separation has been twisted from the original intent by special interest groups. As for myself, I could give a crap less about what others do. Its not my place to judge anyone's morals. Just don't expect me to attend the parades.....
"When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I tell you the truth, that is all the reward they will ever get.''
Originally posted by uhlanstan:Al qaeda yellowstone IMBECILE leads the humourless pack
Totally untrue. You crack me up all the time!
Personally, I think that people can pray all they want (I just don't think anything will come of it but that's not my problem). I also think any religious preference should be absent from government (I think that makes me really unpopular with Al-Qaeda, too).
[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 05-09-2014).]
It is a sad comment on the state of our society that the Supreme Court even had to consider hearing the case. Think whatever you want about Stan (he doesn't care), but his message is to the point and very true. This country was founded on Christian principles and values, and evil is afoot working and succeeding in destroying our nation.
I am not sure because I am not in the religion camp and could care less what anyone believes but don't want anyone to try to cram their so called beliefs down my throat. but unless protestants are Christians, no it wasn't founded on Christian principles.
Religion
Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and two were Roman Catholics (D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons).[citation needed] Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.[citation needed]
A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians, such as Thomas Jefferson[21][22][23] (who created the so-called "Jefferson Bible") and Benjamin Franklin.[24] Others (most notably Thomas Paine) were deists, or at least held beliefs very similar to those of deists.[25]
Historian Gregg L. Frazer argues that the leading Founders (Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, Wilson, Morris, Madison, Hamilton, and Washington) were neither Christians nor Deists, but rather supporters of a hybrid "theistic rationalism".[26]
If the Founders actions in their lives, their associations, and their writings proclaimed themselves to be Presbyterians, etc., then any arguments to what they 'actually' were smells of an agenda by the person posing the argument.
..posers who are hate filler and vile, just their postings alone show you that. ..2.5
Your judgement does not affect me, however I would love to see evidence from my postings why you feel this way. Stan does not speak for me, if you think he does you are mistaken.
Right. That's why the court decision to allow prayer at town board meetings seems odd.
It was a close 5-4 decision and in dissent, Justice Elena Kagan said, "When the citizens of this country approach their government, they do so only as Americans, not as members of one faith or another. And that means that even in a partly legislative body, they should not confront government-sponsored worship that divides them along religious lines."
Separation has been skewed to exclude, originally it was intended to prevent State sponsorship; i.e., the Church of England; no other religions allowed.
Originally posted by olejoedad: Separation has been skewed to exclude, originally it was intended to prevent State sponsorship; i.e., the Church of England; no other religions allowed.
yes, that was my take too when hanging with the founding fathers talking about it over beers....
you statement is 100% supporting: Justice Elena Kagan said, "When the citizens of this country approach their government, they do so only as Americans, not as members of one faith or another. And that means that even in a partly legislative body, they should not confront government-sponsored worship that divides them along religious lines." which is a statement against allowing these prayers by governing peoples in government buildings. which to me goes against the idea of freedom of religion. one should be allowed to pray - no matter what you say.
Praying is a harmless act, unless you hold other peoples hands during a group prayer.
I don't see any issue with people praying at council meetings, school or whatever.
Although I know those who are real Christian have no use to comment in this thread, versus the posers who are hate filler and vile, just their postings alone show you that. The non-Christians like Stan, olejoe, 2.5 and etc
They are not the voice of Christianity on this forum and far from knowing the facts of history.
Wait till a Muslim or Buddhist prayer is done in a council meeting and watch the hate that spews from that awful person known as Stan come posting away.
I can see the "hate filled" with Stan, but olejoe? 2.5? of all the christian posters on the this board, I'd have to say 2.5 is probably the best example of someone who has NOT let board drag him down into the spiteful garbage which gets thrown around.
I can see the "hate filled" with Stan, but olejoe? 2.5? of all the christian posters on the this board, I'd have to say 2.5 is probably the best example of someone who has NOT let board drag him down into the spiteful garbage which gets thrown around.
The First Amendment guarantees 'freedom of', not 'freedom from'....and the Bill of Rights as a whole places limits on government power. Separation has been skewed from the original intent. Sam Adams told me that when I was drinking one of his Boston Lagers....
I have kept an old Encyclopedia from the 1940s it says George Washington was the first conservative & the country was founded on Christian principals ,the atheist religion hating college professors have changed History & the Atheist & democrats are eager to destroy American society ,religion & the family ..once the society ,family & religion are destroyed then a better secular hell/life can be enjoyed. with the Atheist based Satanic & devil worship party cults enjoyed at a recent Atheist alliance convention ,they declared religion must be destroyed ,religious values ended ,super moron Richard Dawkins & Cris hitchen spoke, (thought he was dead??) Atheist are united in thier absolute hate & contempt of religion, tho many love & support thier islamic allies because they have the same end game.. ...Atheist are the most mistrusted group in America according to surveys because they have no real believe & they are the worlds biggest liars,thiefs & they massacre, murder,kill & maim with out pity thousands every year ! Sandy hook & all the recent mass killings were done by Atheist,, the list of cruel heartless Atheist mass killer has no end !! every so often some normal person goes off his head,,but the Atheist are kings of mass murderers by 90% & the worlds biggest Liars you can see it with absolute clairity, clearly on this forum!! Having you shut up & Lying is natural to the Atheist
Atheist are eager to call people LIARS, to have Christians shut up!! it it is in thier DNA normal to them
.Atheist are the most mistrusted group in America according to surveys because they have no real believe & they are the worlds biggest liars, Atheist are eager to call people LIARS, to have Christians shut up!! it it is in thier DNA normal to them
