well, one of my current projects is Bill Payment Kiosks for utilities.
they do the job of the counter girls better and faster. while most of us wonder WTF - I do my bills online. well, yeah. these are aimed at the "banking challenged" areas
the first one we put in February has already brought in more $$$ than it cost to deploy. And I expect by August it will have paid for my part in the project.
anyways yes - these McDonalds Kiosks would be silly easy & cheap to put out. enter your order on the touch screen swipe card or insert cash grab reciept remaining workers will bring your grease slabs when ready
We've had touch screen at our local mini markets for years.. you place your order making any number of adjustment to your food in a matter of minutes..go pay for it and by time you come back it's sitting on the counter waiting for you. I would love to see this happen at all fast food restaurants. lol
We've had touch screen at our local mini markets for years.. you place your order making any number of adjustment to your food in a matter of minutes..go pay for it and by time you come back it's sitting on the counter waiting for you. I would love to see this happen at all fast food restaurants. lol
The only problem with this, is the fast food employee no longer buys the product you are selling. We have became a service economy, and we are now trying to figure out ways to fire all the service workers. Who buys the product you are peddling?
At least Boeing aircraft will let the pilot override the computer. Airbus won't. The computer is smarter than the pilot, so it makes the final decision.
Don't worry - the political message doesn't start until 2:55. The opening of the vid is about the Air France #447 crash.
Then we will really see a change in the way we think about ourselves.....and each other.
They will be if it's feasible. The only thing you really need a human to do is *think*. Repetitive tasks of "doing" can be automated, and as technology improves more and more jobs where you only have to "do" and not "think" will be automated.
At least Boeing aircraft will let the pilot override the computer. Airbus won't. The computer is smarter than the pilot, so it makes the final decision. <snip youtube clip> Don't worry - the political message doesn't start until 2:55. The opening of the vid is about the Air France #447 crash.
Actually I can override the computers any time I wish (I'm an Airbus A320 Captain). Simply turn off FAC1 and FAC2 (Flight Augmentation Computers) and I can do rudder rolls, loops, stalls, whatever. Under normal circumstances you want all the help you can get to fly a smooth safe airplane. But if the SHTF, you have options.
Actually I can override the computers any time I wish (I'm an Airbus A320 Captain). Simply turn off FAC1 and FAC2 (Flight Augmentation Computers) and I can do rudder rolls, loops, stalls, whatever. Under normal circumstances you want all the help you can get to fly a smooth safe airplane. But if the SHTF, you have options.
What I got out of the first 2:55 of the video is that the Airbus flight controls aren't physically connected and different FC inputs are possible and if the controls show different inputs, it takes an average of the inputs and that's what it applies to the control surfaces, whereas the Boeing flight controls are physically connected and if the pilot and co-pilot put 2 different inputs they will be fighting against each other and only 1 input is recorded so only 1 input is processed.
[This message has been edited by Rallaster (edited 05-22-2014).]
What I got out of the first 2:55 of the video is that the Airbus flight controls aren't physically connected and different FC inputs are possible and if the controls show different inputs, it takes an average of the inputs and that's what it applies to the control surfaces, whereas the Boeing flight controls are physically connected and if the pilot and co-pilot put 2 different inputs they will be fighting against each other and only 1 input is recorded so only 1 input is processed.
That's a more accurate description. The Airbus still has the computer interpreting the input from the pilots, and the pilots have no feedback to know what the other pilots are doing. At least that's my understanding of what happened.
Right, and when 1/3 of the customers don't show up, what happens to the price then?
Most businesses run on what, a 20% profit margin? Less if it's larger.Wow, I was way off there. lol
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Fast-food restaurants could not pay this additional amount out of their profits. The typical restaurant has a profit margin of just 3 percent before taxes.[4] That works out to approximately $27,000 a year[5]—less than the annual cost of hiring one full-time employee at $15 an hour.[6] In order to raise wages, fast-food restaurants must raise prices.
Take away 30% of the money, and something has to give doesn't it?
(Numbers are guesses at best.)
Brad
[This message has been edited by Fats (edited 09-06-2014).]
I am 63 now and my first payroll job was at a McDonalds for $1.15 an hour at 16 years old. Back then it was never considered a career job. The sad fact now is that a large part of our career jobs have been out sourced to other countries by multi-national corporations. There really are very few career jobs left for high school grads, most higher paying manufacturing has been moved elsewhere. Is the fast food worker worth $15 per hour, no, but I understand why they are trying to get it.
Yup. I can't wait. Every job should be afforded this choice.
Then we will really see a change in the way we think about ourselves.....and each other.
Eventually most every job WILL be this way, without a choice. ( except for politicians, we wont ever be rid of them... )
I expect a total collapse of the middle class and poor at that point. No jobs = no money for those who didnt have it already. And it wont be some sort of 'star trek' situation where everyone just accepts it and 'does things since they are right'
[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 09-06-2014).]
They will be if it's feasible. The only thing you really need a human to do is *think*. Repetitive tasks of "doing" can be automated, and as technology improves more and more jobs where you only have to "do" and not "think" will be automated.
But what is thinking, in the context of providing "services"? In almost all cases it is just as you described, an automated repetitive task. In reality our daily lives is now filled with this, and very little we do really involves 'independent thought'. People may think it is, but f they look closely and are honest with themselves, their tasks are defined by a set of rules that anyone can follow if they have the knowledge. Often times if those rules are well enough defined upfront, even the knowledge isn't required, just the ability to follow the rules.
Not only that, is our thought really independent or do we just think it is.. There have been some studies that do suggest this and we are just creatures of learned habits and our subconscious..
only fools think this will only effect the min wage jobs.. it'll start there and move up the latter.. and once it's in the door there will be no stopping it.. most computers can do most cubicle farm jobs now.. so think before you make that wish.. yes 15 bucks an hours is crazy... but no one though this through when they voted for "o" the 2nd time.. and all those that didn't have health insurance because, wait for it, wait for it, could not afford it,, now have no choice in the matter.. where are they coming up with the money for the mandated ACA.. you dopes voted for this, without thinking how the f_____ they will pay for it.. if they couldn't afford the 300.oo healthcare monthly bill before what makes you bright lights think they can magicly afford it now.. and they say it's the poor that are stupid.. still looking for that money tree..
[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 09-07-2014).]
But what is thinking, in the context of providing "services"? In almost all cases it is just as you described, an automated repetitive task. In reality our daily lives is now filled with this, and very little we do really involves 'independent thought'. People may think it is, but f they look closely and are honest with themselves, their tasks are defined by a set of rules that anyone can follow if they have the knowledge. Often times if those rules are well enough defined upfront, even the knowledge isn't required, just the ability to follow the rules.
Not only that, is our thought really independent or do we just think it is.. There have been some studies that do suggest this and we are just creatures of learned habits and our subconscious..
That's the beauty of it. If a human brings no value add to the transaction, there's no reason not to automate it. If having a human for the interaction does help - then those who have that will be able to offer service that an automated system cannot.
Buying underwear doesn't really require human input; however, haute couture would benefit from a human's input, stylistic ideas and ability to adapt to the customer's request.
A robot can do the same weld exactly right thousands of times in a row. A professional welder can examine a problem or request and come up with a one-off solution on the fly.
That's the beauty of it. If a human brings no value add to the transaction, there's no reason not to automate it.
And for better or worse, people like me do just that. Over the years a big chunk of my carrier in IT has been automation and 'improving inefficiencies'.. My hope is i enabled people to move on to better jobs, and not just push them out the door.
One of my projects in school was to design a totally automated factory.. the only human allowed ( aside from maintenance ) was the truck driver that drove his truck to the dock and pushed a button that he was there and ready to deliver/pickup. ( we didnt have wireless stuff like WiFi back then to do it from the cab.. or even Google-trucks to eliminate him too )
[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 09-07-2014).]
You have to keep improving efficiency. If you don't, other companies will and leave you behind and everyone ends up losing their job. Banks used to process paper checks - actually moving the physical check through the process until it was either stored or returned to the account holder. Just the amount of shipping fees for all that paper required an enormous amount of manpower and shipping costs. Check imaging is now done electronically. That eliminated a lot of jobs, but once one bank could do it, the others had to follow suit or they'd be operating with this huge overhead handicap. The company running more efficiently can offer better rates and more services. The haters will say it just drives up profits - yes it does that too. That means higher stock prices, giving investors more money in their 401k plans and giving the company money to expand and hire more workers.
I'm coming around to welcoming the automation more and more as I talk to the people against it. :\ I may even try Walmarts system sometime.
Brad
When I drive up through Va. and Pa, I have the Sheetz stations on my GPS for gas stops ($0.03/gallon discount with Sheetz card) and food stops. For under $5 I can get a six inch sub. Using the kiosk, I can order just what I want. WaWa also has a similar system for food.
The auto industry went to robotic construction of cars elimination many pot smoking or drunk union welders building cars. However you now need skilled workers to care for and program those robots.
You have to keep improving efficiency. If you don't, other companies will and leave you behind and everyone ends up losing their job. Banks used to process paper checks - actually moving the physical check through the process until it was either stored or returned to the account holder. Just the amount of shipping fees for all that paper required an enormous amount of manpower and shipping costs. Check imaging is now done electronically. That eliminated a lot of jobs, but once one bank could do it, the others had to follow suit or they'd be operating with this huge overhead handicap. The company running more efficiently can offer better rates and more services. The haters will say it just drives up profits - yes it does that too. That means higher stock prices, giving investors more money in their 401k plans and giving the company money to expand and hire more workers.
I take advantage of technology every chance I get but keeping up the new systems and robots requires far fewer workers. You have to wonder though: will all of those lost jobs will result in the elimination of the middle class completely. I live close to The Villages in Florida. It's the fastest growing city in the US. Most of their buyers come from people retiring from high paying jobs in the auto industry, etc. The bulk of those jobs are going away so this crop of retirees will be the last of their kind.
Originally posted by Csjag: You have to wonder though: will all of those lost jobs will result in the elimination of the middle class completely.
I don't have to wonder. It will not happen. We have always risen in class, if we strived to. One is not locked into a lower class unless say ... they wait on entitlements or depend on a job as a cashier being a living. They say in Mexico that the middle class has disappeared. It certainly is not because of automation. It is because of government and I don't mean lack of government.
I don't have to wonder. It will not happen. We have always risen in class, if we strived to. One is not locked into a lower class unless say ... they wait on entitlements or depend on a job as a cashier being a living. They say in Mexico that the middle class has disappeared. It certainly is not because of automation. It is because of government and I don't mean lack of government.
I hope you are right but I doubt it. We only need so many Firemen, Policeman and Military and those are the career jobs left that still have decent pensions and benefits.
Originally posted by Csjag: I hope you are right but I doubt it. We only need so many Firemen, Policeman and Military and those are the career jobs left that still have decent pensions and benefits.
That is not true. I am 55 years old, am a high school drop out, and have some black marks on my "permanent" record. I make $60 - 80 thousand a year with excellent benefits and 401k plans with every company I have worked for. I also have a tendency to tell a boss to "take this job and shove it". I think I am middle "middle class". I drill oil wells. Many support companies also pay well and have good benefits. I would think railroad companies also provide "middle class wages" as well as trucking, shipping, even jobs at Google that are not high tech/geek. Having a job is not the only way one can become middle class. I would think investing could also accomplish a "meager" income.
That is not true. I am 55 years old, am a high school drop out, and have some black marks on my "permanent" record. I make $60 - 80 thousand a year with excellent benefits and 401k plans with every company I have worked for. I also have a tendency to tell a boss to "take this job and shove it". I think I am middle "middle class". I drill oil wells. Many support companies also pay well and have good benefits. I would think railroad companies also provide "middle class wages" as well as trucking, shipping, even jobs at Google that are not high tech/geek. Having a job is not the only way one can become middle class. I would think investing could also accomplish a "meager" income.
I take advantage of technology every chance I get but keeping up the new systems and robots requires far fewer workers. You have to wonder though: will all of those lost jobs will result in the elimination of the middle class completely. I live close to The Villages in Florida. It's the fastest growing city in the US. Most of their buyers come from people retiring from high paying jobs in the auto industry, etc. The bulk of those jobs are going away so this crop of retirees will be the last of their kind.
Not necessarily. In the 60's nobody could have predicted the millions of IT jobs created. Some jobs disappear, while others take their place. If all those restaurants put in kiosks, somebody will have to build them, sell them, and maintain them. Nothing is a zero sum game but in 20 years many jobs today will be obsolete, while new jobs will be created we haven't even imagined yet.
Then look at cliffw's example - drilling oil wells. It's not a new industry, but in the 70's and 80's the US was shuttering oil wells. Domestic oil production was dead. Today it's booming again. You have to be willing to go where the opportunities are and not expect the opportunities to come to you.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 09-08-2014).]
I don't have to wonder. It will not happen. We have always risen in class, if we strived to. One is not locked into a lower class unless say ... they wait on entitlements or depend on a job as a cashier being a living. They say in Mexico that the middle class has disappeared. It certainly is not because of automation. It is because of government and I don't mean lack of government.
Mexico isn't a wasteland. They have access to, and have the same technology that the US has. Hell, a lot of OUR technology is now there. Saying (or implying) that Mexico doesn't have automation shows how little you know about the country.
Yup. I can't wait. Every job should be afforded this choice.
Then we will really see a change in the way we think about ourselves.....and each other.
And... people will begin to realize that their job at Mc.Donalds isn't "deserved" to them, and that they need to work hard too. I've probably said it 10 times in this thread, (no idea since we're on page 2)... but I worked at Mc.Donalds, and I never screwed up like the people screw up today. The job that I did is now serviced by three people. I worked at the Mc.Donalds in Vienna, Virginia... it's one of the busiest MCDs in the DC/Metro Area... during the lunch rush, it makes the MCDs in ChinaTown look like a joke. Anyway, I used to take the order, get the food, collect the money, hand over the food, give the change, and move on to the next customer. I did this fast, efficient, and honestly... I can't even remember having ever screwed up. I can't imagine the impossibility, but honestly... if the person ordered right, and you put it into the system right... then it's not difficult to read the overhead screen. It just wasn't a difficult job. It was fast paced, demanding, and taught me work ethic. Even though my friends busted on me for working at "lowly" McDonalds (while they still had to borrow money from their parents), I took pride in my job. That is something that is SERIOUSLY, SERIOUSLY lacking at pretty much every McDonalds I've been to in the last decade. It seems like people do the absolute bare minimum to get the job done, and not get fired. I mean, lines get so backed up now, and the people behind the counter and in the drive through just aren't motivated.
They now have THREE people doing the job that I used to do by myself... I was making $4.25 an hour. So when I see people complain about needing/wanting 15 dollars an hour for that job, I am just beside myself. How about working hard first, and then let's see what you're worth. There are tens of thousands of people that would be happy to take those jobs over for them (they're called immigrants) and they would work much harder and faster than the people in those positions now... because they know the value of hard work. Man, people in today's society are so God-damned lazy, it just infuriates me.
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Originally posted by Csjag:
I am 63 now and my first payroll job was at a McDonalds for $1.15 an hour at 16 years old. Back then it was never considered a career job. The sad fact now is that a large part of our career jobs have been out sourced to other countries by multi-national corporations. There really are very few career jobs left for high school grads, most higher paying manufacturing has been moved elsewhere. Is the fast food worker worth $15 per hour, no, but I understand why they are trying to get it.
Exactly... and when I was working there (1992-1993), McDonalds had lots of videos (VHS) that they would play which showed fortune 500 company owners that had worked at McDonalds and talked about how they got their start there. It used to be sort of a thing of pride that McDonalds was the first job of many, and that taught people the value of hard work (at least... non-manual labor hard work).
Exactly... and when I was working there (1992-1993), McDonalds had lots of videos (VHS) that they would play which showed fortune 500 company owners that had worked at McDonalds and talked about how they got their start there. It used to be sort of a thing of pride that McDonalds was the first job of many, and that taught people the value of hard work (at least... non-manual labor hard work).
I worked there too. It was during the McLean times. I loved that "burger". Pickles and mustard only.
Anyway. I ordered 5 dollar burgers the other day, for my wife, mother and I. Every single one of them was horribly made. I don't mean they tasted bad, two of them the ketchup was on the top of the bun, the cheese was off to the side of two of them... I'm talking about off the burger itself off to the side. And the wrapper was just kinda there on all of them, one of the burgers fell out of the wrapper getting it out of the bag. One of the burgers had the onion slices on it instead of the freeze dried ones, this means someone that paid for "real" onion on a dollar burger probably didn't get it.
They tried to hand me a coke at the drive-through, we didn't order drinks. It was all just.... Nuts. And it usually is anymore. I remember working the back during a rush, and quality was a very important thing.
What is a person to do? I could spend all day running back and getting it fixed, complain to management... But it just keeps getting worse.
