Energy in any form will have to be transported and stored where it is needed or consumed..
Saying making hydrogen is simple...
Well other than being extremely explosive,makes extreme amounts of heat,have to be precisely regulated with correct voltage and amps,precise PH levels maintained with absurd amounts of pressure created....Then the collection of the "bubbles" .....Which then has to be separated into there primary elements,Hydrogen and Oxygen...Then separately stored and commpresed...
Ooh and lest we forget that batt aint gonna charge itself..And if you think the solar cells are gonna be suffeciant to supply the Amps and constant voltage,than write a paper and become the next Billionare...
The materials that are used to create all the parts of this "simple" process ,plastics,metals ,rubbers,:ETC...Have to be mined and refined in a constant supply..
Other than that stuff ...Yep pretty EZ...
If we can manage to drill for oil miles under the ocean, separate out the crude and natural gas, create gasoline, diesel and a host of other petroleum based products that are then shipped around the world so all you have to do is go to the corner filling station to get any 1 of a number of selections of fuel for about the same price as a gallon of milk, I think we can figure out how to reliably and efficiently do the same with hydrogen.
Electric is the way to go, but not with batteries as the main storage medium. Not until batteries are far more advanced than they are today. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe.
I expect a lot of areas in the Middle East to start solar hydrogen production in the future. Plenty of sun to drive the solar power, plus the hydrogen fuel cells can be used to power plants and equipment and generate fresh water - something an area that already has to use desalination plants can put to good use.
lol - c'mon, you are talking to folk who think unleaded gas & front wheel drive are a bad idea. but, I must say - I too do not see the electric car as a fully viable option at this point.
yes, it has become good enough to be a great option for for specialized scenarios, and for certain lifestyles. Over the last few weeks I spent alot of time at the DTE headquarters in Detroit, and they do have an entire parking area dedicated to the plug-ins - it is a covered parking area, the cover being a solar collector, and a bank of connectors to plug in.
no matter how you slice this - regenerative braking is what will win it in the end.
Yes, I say "vote"... is there something wrong with that? Do you not agree with voting?
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Your the one that says vote. I will cancel yours out. Unless you vote for no green subsidizes too. I don't think the ethonal people should be getting subsidizes either. I also do not think it is fair that GE had zero tax liabilities.
You are the one who brought up the Volt .... Also, here in my tiny town I have seen 3 of them. The local NAPA uses one for deliveries. What a great idea.
It is nice you can buy a used engine for a few hundred dollars... but with that you get a very limited warranty and it may not work after that warranty. So that argument is pretty weak, sorry. We are talking about a battery unit that can tell you more about it's condition than an IC engine could ever do. Plus, an engine can just die, so can a tranny... without any warning. It seems to me that if you look at the current crop of hybrids/electric cars, you will see very few failures of the type you described. The technology works and the IC engine will be replaced one day by another technology.
If the price of the volt was cheaper, I would have one. It is better than a Tesla or other pure electric car, for everyday use (not just to work and back).
Columbus is a pretty big city...and Ive seen 2 on the street. A white one and a blue one, period. So rare I can even tell you where I seen them. Ive bought lots of used engines and transmission from yards for under $300. Ones where I buy them let you get it running if you want, and offer only that block and head are not cracked and dont use excessive oil...or they give you another one. Trans they guarantee to work in all gears or they give you another.A lithium battery setting in a junked car is not going to be any good after setting a few months dead. Maybe if you get it a week or two after it crashed...but then again, can they sell them at all. My batteries all have warning labels not to use if its been dropped or abused...so being in a wreck may ban them being sold at all. Try and try as much as you want, theres no good argument for having an electric car. The Tesla ONLY looks good to me because its got a range I could live with. I drove a Volt across their parking lot and said no thanks. Just a fad, cheap built, piece of junk.
Columbus is a pretty big city...and Ive seen 2 on the street. A white one and a blue one, period. So rare I can even tell you where I seen them. Ive bought lots of used engines and transmission from yards for under $300. Ones where I buy them let you get it running if you want, and offer only that block and head are not cracked and dont use excessive oil...or they give you another one. Trans they guarantee to work in all gears or they give you another.A lithium battery setting in a junked car is not going to be any good after setting a few months dead. Maybe if you get it a week or two after it crashed...but then again, can they sell them at all. My batteries all have warning labels not to use if its been dropped or abused...so being in a wreck may ban them being sold at all. Try and try as much as you want, theres no good argument for having an electric car. The Tesla ONLY looks good to me because its got a range I could live with. I drove a Volt across their parking lot and said no thanks. Just a fad, cheap built, piece of junk.
You are still using standard/disposable batteries for comparison and you need to understand that they are not the same... but I don't think I could convince you of that, no matter what evidence would be provided. http://media.gm.com/content...docs/battery_101.pdf
BTW, here is a website of some volt owners in your area (not all the owners, just those who joined this group, and there are more than 2, period): http://www.voltstats.net/Stats/GroupDetails/96
Telsa is great, if you have a lot of money and like to drive between charging stations (and have time to wait) or if you only drive around town. I could drive a Tesla... but for the price, it is a waste. It is a toy for the wealthy, at this point.
I could easily live with a car that has a 200+ mile range on a single charge, especially since it can get recharged while you have dinner for another 200 miles. As I understand them, the lithium ion batteries are exactly the same as in anything else, just bundled together...like 4000 AA cells. So each cell should behave just like any other AA cell thats by itself. (water is water) Educate me what makes a AA battery in a car pack any different than an AA battery in my RC car if they are both lithium ion ?
I didnt say only two were sold here. I said Ive only SEEN two on the streets. In the same time ive seen dozens & dozens of Crown Vics...and lots of Land Rovers and Hummers. I rate how popular something is by how many I see being used. 2 in 2 years is pretty slim. I dont even know how many they say they sold, but I do know that they didnt sell anywhere near what they expected.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 05-28-2014).]
Originally posted by Formula88: All you need to do is get the Law of Thermodynamics repealed.
No worries. The much beloved current president can simply nullify that with another executive order... kee-rect? It's probably coming already, as part of the new "Climate Change" regulations that the White House will be revealing soon.
Oh wait, I lost track here for a moment... I'm the rinselberg.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-28-2014).]
I could easily live with a car that has a 200+ mile range on a single charge, especially since it can get recharged while you have dinner for another 200 miles. As I understand them, the lithium ion batteries are exactly the same as in anything else, just bundled together...like 4000 AA cells. So each cell should behave just like any other AA cell thats by itself. (water is water) Educate me what makes a AA battery in a car pack any different than an AA battery in my RC car if they are both lithium ion ?
I didnt say only two were sold here. I said Ive only SEEN two on the streets. In the same time ive seen dozens & dozens of Crown Vics...and lots of Land Rovers and Hummers. I rate how popular something is by how many I see being used. 2 in 2 years is pretty slim. I dont even know how many they say they sold, but I do know that they didnt sell anywhere near what they expected.
The link I gave you was a list of various owners (16) from your city and the mileage they have driven. By your same logic, hummers, land rovers, mercedes, corvettes didn't sell well, as I don't see any around here. I guess those are not popular vehicles.
I also gave you another link about the Volt batteries. I have done all I can to educate you, but as the student, you don't want to learn. You have already decided that the Volt is a bad car by driving it in a parking lot. Seems odd because the Volt has one of the highest owners satisfaction ratings.
The link I gave you was a list of various owners (16) from your city and the mileage they have driven. By your same logic, hummers, land rovers, mercedes, corvettes didn't sell well, as I don't see any around here. I guess those are not popular vehicles.
I also gave you another link about the Volt batteries. I have done all I can to educate you, but as the student, you don't want to learn. You have already decided that the Volt is a bad car by driving it in a parking lot. Seems odd because the Volt has one of the highest owners satisfaction ratings.
Im only speaking of what I know...around here in Columbus. So there are 16 in the 15th largest city in the US of almost 1,000,000. That explains why you never see one. Corvettes, Mercedes and Hummers here are as common as taxi cabs. Of course owners say they love them. They dont want to admit to their bad choice or are the type of dorks that do buy them and think their saving the world. As far as batteries I already know all I need to know about them from my own use, until they make some mega breakthru. You live in Michigan, Im surprised they all dont drive buggies with the lousy economy there.
Im only speaking of what I know...around here in Columbus. So there are 16 in the 15th largest city in the US of almost 1,000,000. That explains why you never see one. Corvettes, Mercedes and Hummers here are as common as taxi cabs. Of course owners say they love them. They dont want to admit to their bad choice or are the type of dorks that do buy them and think their saving the world. As far as batteries I already know all I need to know about them from my own use, until they make some mega breakthru. You live in Michigan, Im surprised they all dont drive buggies with the lousy economy there.
Interesting article.... about Tesla stock. Have to see where this goes.
I have a good friend who bought Tesla stock at $20 a share at about the same time he pre-ordered his 'S' model. By the time his car was delivered (June 2013) Tesla stock was trading for about $160 a share. (It closed at $210 today.) He took an investment risk, to be sure, but one way of looking at it is that if he had sold some of his stock when the car was delivered it would have been free ... his net cost would have been zero.
One thing that distinguishes Tesla from most other automotive startups is that Tesla is delivering well-designed and beautifully-manufactured cars, on schedule, and in substantial quantities. It doesn't hurt that, by all accounts, Tesla's customers are highly satisfied with the product and the company's after-sale support. Two big questions remain: 1) At what point will the market for the luxury 'S' model begin to saturate? 2) Will Tesla's business model be able to transition successfully from building luxury cars in moderate quantities to much higher volume production of a medium-priced car? The most dangerous time for many small companies is when they begin to achieve some market success, enter a period of very rapid growth, and are unable to finance and/or manage that growth.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 05-30-2014).]
