I have a question I'm hoping someone here will shed some light on. I'm going to be running 3 amps and I purchased this distribution block so I can run the main 4 gauge wire to the top and then three 8 gauge wires for each amp. I'm looking at this block and can't understand how the power is going to feed?! The top (2 connectors) is not at all touching the bottom row of 4 connectors! Thanks for any advice!
[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 07-14-2014).]
How much of a gap is there? Almost looks like there is enough room for a fuse. Do you have an ANL fuse you can fit? If not that then just put some terminals on and make a feeder cable.
Otherwise I'd go by a car audio only store that does installs, or order them online from E-bay, Amazon, Parts Express or somewhere like that. As a temp solution you could just use a metal buss bar to complete the circuit, but I wouldn't leave it like that for any real length of time. Possibly, a short piece of wire with crimped connectors on each end. The fuse is there in case you get a short between that block and the amp. If you have a main fuse on the power line near the battery, that fuse will blow instead if there is a short between the block and the amp. Usually the main fuses, having 3 amps off of it are rather large and a bit more expensive. Figure if each of your 3 amps use single 50 amp fuses, your main fuse would need to be 150 amp. If one is 40 amp, one 25 and one 80 you'd need around 145 amp fuse. With the class D amps a lot of people run for subs now, you may need a several hundred amp fuse as I had one that used 3 40 amp fuses so it was 120 amp itself.
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 07-14-2014).]
Otherwise I'd go by a car audio only store that does installs, or order them online from E-bay, Amazon, Parts Express or somewhere like that. As a temp solution you could just use a metal buss bar to complete the circuit, but I wouldn't leave it like that for any real length of time.
Great advice, thanks! I'm in no hurry because i'm still putting the rest of my car back together. Is the link that you provided an ANL fuse that I can use? Curious if they're pretty much standard and if it will fit? Should I get a couple in case one blows!
[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 07-14-2014).]
Yeah, like I said in an earlier post, I'm pretty sure (like 95%) that you need a Mini ANL for that block. As to whether it's the right amperage, I don't know. You'd need the value for each amp. SO if one amp uses a 30 amp fuse, you'd need one of those. If another uses a 25 amp, you'd need one of that value for it and if the last used a 50 amp, you'd need a 50 amp for it. I'd order an extra of whatever values you need and keep it in the glove box so you can replace it on the go if one blows. In short, yes those 2 links are both for Mini ANL and that's the size you should need. Standard ANL are about 3" or so long and a inch or so wide, if that's to big to fit in there, you need the Mini ANL.
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 07-14-2014).]
Yeah, like I said in an earlier post, I'm pretty sure (like 95%) that you need a Mini ANL for that block. As to whether it's the right amperage, I don't know. You'd need the value for each amp. SO if one amp uses a 30 amp fuse, you'd need one of those. If another uses a 25 amp, you'd need one of that value for it and if the last used a 50 amp, you'd need a 50 amp for it. I'd order an extra of whatever values you need and keep it in the glove box so you can replace it on the go if one blows. In short, yes those 2 links are both for Mini ANL and that's the size you should need. Standard ANL are about 3" or so long and a inch or so wide, if that's to big to fit in there, you need the Mini ANL.
Couple more questions please The 8 gauge wire going to the battery has an in-line fuse holder. I removed the fuse and it reads 60. My amps hold a 20 in one, 30 in another & 40 amp fuse in the last. So should I replace this in-line fuse with a 70? Are these easy to find like Radio Shack? I did already order some mini ANL fuses at e-bay from hifisoundconnection. Thanks, Marc
Yes, you'd want to replace that fuse with a 70. That style fuse is easier to find, and I believe I have seen them at Radio Shack. Whether they have a 70, I'm not sure but you can check. I've also seen those fuses at Pep Boys and Auto Zone. I've seen them somewhere else that I didn't expect to find them but can't recall it now... Maybe it was Home Depot? I'm not sure.
Yes, you'd want to replace that fuse with a 70. That style fuse is easier to find, and I believe I have seen them at Radio Shack. Whether they have a 70, I'm not sure but you can check. I've also seen those fuses at Pep Boys and Auto Zone. I've seen them somewhere else that I didn't expect to find them but can't recall it now... Maybe it was Home Depot? I'm not sure.
What a huge help UR thank you so much! I have one more novice question that I'm sure you'll be able to answer. Should I find three separate grounds from my 3 amps or is it okay to find one good ground and then jumped the other 2 amps to that ground on the first amp?
[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 07-15-2014).]
You can combine the three grounds into one ground point, but like you splitting the 4 ga into three 8 ga, you'll want to do the opposite and combine the three 8 ga into a 4 ga. You can skip that and run the three 8 ga to the same grounding bolt individually, but if you jump the two 8's to one amp , then run the 8 from the last amp to the ground your feeding all your power through that single 8 ga going to ground. Something most don't know is protons, you + power are in the nucleus of the atom and the electrons, you negative power, orbit it. The electrons are what moves in electricity, so electricity really travels from neg to pos. So that ground needs to be as big as the positive or else the larger positive wires are pretty pointless. Think of it this way, if you have a ground the size of a straw and a positive the size of a 1/2" PVC pipe and you hook those together, you can only feed what will go through the straw no matter how much bigger that other pipe is.
Got it! Thanks so much for explaining it all and making it easier to understand. I'm sure this will help others in the future with their car audio projects, thanks again and all the best! Marc
Not a problem . I won't claim to know everything about car audio or electronics but I did get a MECP certification back in the 90's for installing. Things have advanced, like the ANL being a common fuse back then but the Mini ANL wasn't being used at all. So there are new things available that I try to keep abreast of but I'm not always as successful as I'd like to be, LOL. Car audio is a hobby of mine since I was a driving teen in the late 80's when car audio was really exploding and big woofers being heard a block away was all the rage along with your lowered mini-trucks. I don't know if you ever saw a pic of what I installed in my Fiero. I've since sold the Fiero, but while some would consider it a bit overkill, i liked it . It wasn't "finished" in this picture, I made a cover that hid the amplifier and also swapped the amp out for a lightning audio amp I had when I sold the Fiero. I used that Aura amplfier in my Neon along with it's 4 channel mate I had.
This was my Neon. My eldest daughter needed a car to get around in and wanted it so we sold it to her. Now she gets to enjoy the stereo in it, LOL.
I don't have a fuse at the distribution block, I have it about 6 inches away from the battery connection. If I was you I would also hook up a fuse off the battery just in case.
Not a problem . I won't claim to know everything about car audio or electronics but I did get a MECP certification back in the 90's for installing. Things have advanced, like the ANL being a common fuse back then but the Mini ANL wasn't being used at all. So there are new things available that I try to keep abreast of but I'm not always as successful as I'd like to be, LOL. Car audio is a hobby of mine since I was a driving teen in the late 80's when car audio was really exploding and big woofers being heard a block away was all the rage along with your lowered mini-trucks. I don't know if you ever saw a pic of what I installed in my Fiero. I've since sold the Fiero, but while some would consider it a bit overkill, i liked it . It wasn't "finished" in this picture, I made a cover that hid the amplifier and also swapped the amp out for a lightning audio amp I had when I sold the Fiero. I used that Aura amplfier in my Neon along with it's 4 channel mate I had.
This was my Neon. My eldest daughter needed a car to get around in and wanted it so we sold it to her. Now she gets to enjoy the stereo in it, LOL.
Extremely impressive Thanks for sharing!
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Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:
I don't have a fuse at the distribution block, I have it about 6 inches away from the battery connection. If I was you I would also hook up a fuse off the battery just in case.
Yes, I do. It's pictured in my reply on 07-15-2014 06:55 AM
[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 07-16-2014).]
I don't have a fuse at the distribution block, I have it about 6 inches away from the battery connection. If I was you I would also hook up a fuse off the battery just in case.
I've always done it that way to. I usually buy solid distribution blocks to split my power and ground wires. I always found the fused distribution blocks to be more about looks than function. The amp is fused and the main wire is fused right by the battery, why do I need another fuse for that last 2 or 3 feet of wire before the amp? If it shorts the main fuse will blow. If something in the amp goes wrong, its fuses should blow. Plus with the barrel type fuse like Gokart is using on his main line, they are pretty easy to find and not that expensive to get.
I've always done it that way to. I usually buy solid distribution blocks to split my power and ground wires. I always found the fused distribution blocks to be more about looks than function. The amp is fused and the main wire is fused right by the battery, why do I need another fuse for that last 2 or 3 feet of wire before the amp? If it shorts the main fuse will blow. If something in the amp goes wrong, its fuses should blow. Plus with the barrel type fuse like Gokart is using on his main line, they are pretty easy to find and not that expensive to get.
I hope all of you won't be upset after all my mini-fuse questions but I was told the same thing this morning at best buy about fused blocks being a waste so I picked up this one. Now my question is can I use this original fused block for the ground wires by installing a bus bar or just using fuses? If so do I feed it the same as the power? 8 and then 3 4 gauge wires? I was also told that I should not jump the blue wire coming out of the stereo that shuts the amps off from amp to amp. The tech told me the amps will constantly shut down and turn back on?! He told me to connect the blue wire to the red wire coming out of the stereo and then I can jump the other two amps off the one wired to the stereo. Make any sense? He also told me there's no amp protection with the fuses in the amp themselves. It just keeps them from frying and starting a fire! So much tech and questions...thanks for your advice! Marc
[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 07-16-2014).]
Otherwise I'd go by a car audio only store that does installs, or order them online from E-bay, Amazon, Parts Express or somewhere like that. As a temp solution you could just use a metal buss bar to complete the circuit, but I wouldn't leave it like that for any real length of time. Possibly, a short piece of wire with crimped connectors on each end. The fuse is there in case you get a short between that block and the amp. If you have a main fuse on the power line near the battery, that fuse will blow instead if there is a short between the block and the amp. Usually the main fuses, having 3 amps off of it are rather large and a bit more expensive. Figure if each of your 3 amps use single 50 amp fuses, your main fuse would need to be 150 amp. If one is 40 amp, one 25 and one 80 you'd need around 145 amp fuse. With the class D amps a lot of people run for subs now, you may need a several hundred amp fuse as I had one that used 3 40 amp fuses so it was 120 amp itself.
That's different than what I was told when I was installing a 2 amp fused D-block in my truck. I was told the main fuse by the battery should only be 75-80% of the combined amperage rating of the fused block, not 100%.
That's different than what I was told when I was installing a 2 amp fused D-block in my truck. I was told the main fuse by the battery should only be 75-80% of the combined amperage rating of the fused block, not 100%.
You had me questioning my recollection so I went and grabbed my MECP study guide from the garage. It says the fuse must handle the maximum total amperage load of all components powered by that wire. Maybe there are different schools of thought on this or over the years they've began doing it differently?
Now my question is can I use this original fused block for the ground wires by installing a bus bar or just using fuses? If so do I feed it the same as the power? 8 and then 3 4 gauge wires? I was also told that I should not jump the blue wire coming out of the stereo that shuts the amps off from amp to amp. The tech told me the amps will constantly shut down and turn back on?! He told me to connect the blue wire to the red wire coming out of the stereo and then I can jump the other two amps off the one wired to the stereo. Make any sense? He also told me there's no amp protection with the fuses in the amp themselves. It just keeps them from frying and starting a fire! So much tech and questions...thanks for your advice! Marc
Yes you can use the other block with a bus bar for the grounds. You've got your wire size backwards though, the smaller the number the larger the wire so you would have three 8's going to one 4. However, if your going to do that and you already ordered the fuses, why not use the fused for the + and the solid for the - ? You can do it either way, just if you ever want to compete or show your car, you might get points docked. I used a 2 bus solid for the Neon. Not the greatest of pic, but you can see it here.
As to everything else the tech said, wow. Okay so, the blue wire is most commonly used for a power antenna. This can cause problems if the head-unit only turns the power antenna on when you are using the radio. Then whenever you inserted a CD for example, the power antenna would retract and that line would go dead shutting the amps down. Head-units that do that usually have a second lead labeled "Remote". It's sometimes orange or blue with a white stripe, depending on the manufacturer. If you have a dedicated "Remote" wire coming from the head-unit, use it. And yes, you can jumper that from one amp to another without any problem. All it does is provide a low amperage signal to the amp telling it to turn on.
Hope that helps
Edit: Oh yeah! The fuse "can" protect the amplifier depending on what goes wrong. I've had amps blow the fuse before and when changed it went back to working. I've had amps fry that the fuse never blew on. I've had amps blow the fuse and when replaced found them fried. It just depends. At one time, when I first got into stereos, I had a 25 amp circuit breaker on the power lead going to a 20 amp fused amplifier. That was a heat style breaker and in hot Phoenix summers, it would trip and cut the amp out until it cooled down some. Those type of breakers aren't recommended for installs anymore, but were pretty common place back then.
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 07-17-2014).]
I have got to ask, because I have nothing to add to the OPs questions and know nothing about car audio. Why put a subwoofer in a sealed trunk? As I think those look like subs anyway, but why put them into a sealed truck that would in reality muffle the sound going into the passenger compartment? To me it just doesn't make sense, actually putting all that power into a car audio system makes little sense to me but to each his own. It's just that with all the info on load music/noise damaging our ears, why anyone would put all that power into such a small compartment.
Auto manufacturers spend literally millions of dollars on designing audio systems for their cars and trucks and placement of speakers to get the ideal sound in all seats inside the passenger compartment. Think about the original placement of the Fiero speakers in the seats because of the confined space and proper stereo separation. That to me sounds lots better than the newer design where they put the speakers in the sail panels for truer stereo sound separation and speakers. I am actually considering when I have the seats recovered having them done with the old style seats and speakers because of the way it sounded better to me anyway than the way the speaker in the sail panels sounds.
I also considered using both the sail panel speakers and the seat speakers together but thought that might be counter productive to the best sounding stereo sound?
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 07-17-2014).]
I have got to ask, because I have nothing to add to the OPs questions and know nothing about car audio. Why put a subwoofer in a sealed trunk? As I think those look like subs anyway, but why put them into a sealed truck that would in reality muffle the sound going into the passenger compartment? To me it just doesn't make sense, actually putting all that power into a car audio system makes little sense to me but to each his own. It's just that with all the info on load music/noise damaging our ears.
But even sub woofers for home stereos have openings out of the speaker cab, so how does sealing a speaker inside a cabinet with no actual outlet into the listening area improve sound?
But even sub woofers for home stereos have openings out of the speaker cab, so how does sealing a speaker inside a cabinet with no actual outlet into the listening area improve sound?
Steve
A hatchback really reverberates the sound, but putting subs in a trunk still gives TONS of sound into the cabin. The seats and back deck baffle seem to just let the bass pour through. Space is less at a premium in the trunk too. They are passing through a firewall so sound passes easily. EDIT. Most of my woofers for home are in sealed boxes, not ported ones. They this can affect the sound and loudness in different ways.
The loudest and best sounding car audio setups I've seen where either "free air" or "bandpass".
[This message has been edited by ls3mach (edited 07-17-2014).]
Originally posted by Khw: You had me questioning my recollection so I went and grabbed my MECP study guide from the garage. It says the fuse must handle the maximum total amperage load of all components powered by that wire. Maybe there are different schools of thought on this or over the years they've began doing it differently?
Well, as a novice, wouldnt it have to or it would blow right away?
Well, as a novice, wouldnt it have to or it would blow right away?
No not really. The fuses are rated to cover the maximum current draw the amplifier should ever achieve. At normal listening levels for most people the amplifier isn't drawing the full amperage, rather just part of it. I mean, a amplifier rated at say 1000 watts isn't always producing 1000 watts. You figure most speakers are rated in the mid 80's to high 90's for their decibel out put from 1 watt of power at 1 meter of distance. I've been in cars that had systems that went in excess of 130 db and I can tell you that at around 120 db, you can't hear the person next to you let alone anything outside the vehicle. So most people aren't listening to music "that" loud. If your 1000 watt amp, is only putting out about 128 watts for your normal listening, for example, then it's not drawing all 50 amps that the fuse is rated for. Rather it's only pulling between 10 to 15 amps. SO if you had a 25 amp fuse on the power wire at the battery, you'd probably never blow it until you decided to crank it up to show off.
I have got to ask, because I have nothing to add to the OPs questions and know nothing about car audio. Why put a subwoofer in a sealed trunk? As I think those look like subs anyway, but why put them into a sealed truck that would in reality muffle the sound going into the passenger compartment? To me it just doesn't make sense, actually putting all that power into a car audio system makes little sense to me but to each his own. It's just that with all the info on load music/noise damaging our ears, why anyone would put all that power into such a small compartment.
Auto manufacturers spend literally millions of dollars on designing audio systems for their cars and trucks and placement of speakers to get the ideal sound in all seats inside the passenger compartment. Think about the original placement of the Fiero speakers in the seats because of the confined space and proper stereo separation. That to me sounds lots better than the newer design where they put the speakers in the sail panels for truer stereo sound separation and speakers. I am actually considering when I have the seats recovered having them done with the old style seats and speakers because of the way it sounded better to me anyway than the way the speaker in the sail panels sounds.
I also considered using both the sail panel speakers and the seat speakers together but thought that might be counter productive to the best sounding stereo sound?
Steve
Have you ever heard a competition audio system, or one even approaching competition quality? They put the "stock" stereo systems to shame. It's the same as all the other things you've complained about with car manufacturers. The bean counters get in and that reduces the quality of the audio systems that come stock in a vehicle. I've heard some pretty good premium sound packages in cars, but that upgrade is usually pricey and still no where near as good as it could be with better components. Let's face it, stock components are not the best the market has to offer because "most" people don't want the best they just want something to listen to their music with. The stereo in our 2000 Bonneville was a stock system. I upgraded the door and rear speakers, and it was like night and day. I added a 12" sub and everything rounded out really nice. Was it a block pounder? No, but that's not what I want anymore. I do however want to be able to hear the bass and be able to crank it up a little and feel it to when I want to.
As to the subs in the trunk, bass is a very long wave form so it passes through things very easily. Even so, most of the time your rear deck is not a solid piece of sheet metal, meaning it has a skeletal appearance with wide areas devoid of metal. In those instances there is usually just a little carpet and maybe some insulation over those open areas that the bass can pass through rather easily.
My Father was of the same opinion as you back when I was 17/18 and bought and installed my first set of 10" subs in my truck. He didn't understand why anyone would want something like that in their car... Until I got him to sit in it and I popped a country cassette in. He agreed it sounded really good but thought he could get a similar extension of bass with a good set of 6x9's. Well, 20 years down the road when he built his Chevelle...
He found out that 6x9's while nice, just didn't go low enough or loud enough. So yeah, he wanted better sound and to round out the bottom end asked his son what he thought of different brands and settled on Sony subs powered by an Audiobahn amp. He then installed front and rear Audiobahn speakers powered by another Audiobahn amp. The head-unit is a Sony CD with changer controls and he has a changer in the trunk also. In this instance, a little of the son rubbed off on the dad.
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 07-18-2014).]
when sound quality is not a concern,,,, (16) 2400d's well there really was not any thing close to sound quality, It was just 4 15" with 16 amps, I did have 2 6x9's in the dash to listen to on a cheap radio,,, to keep it on topic about dist blocks , I had no dist. blocks 4 strands of 0awg from the 2 350 amp alts to the 32 8v batteries in the back..
My questions ... I am intent on purchasing this Alpine head unit srereo. It puts out 50W maximum power x 4 channels (18W RMS) which is not quite enough for me, so, I want to add this amp to the system. Does it's 180W add to the 50W that the head unit puts out, or is 180W the final output ? Also the amp mentions "brigdeable".
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Give your car stereo system a power boost with this Alpine Power Pack KTP-445U 180W Class D bridgeable 4-channel amplifier that features a 12dB/Oct high-pass filter for powerful sound.
It also mentions 4 ohms bridged impedance. What exactly is bridged ? Lastly, what do you think of my choice ? I know Alpine is a better brand but would you buy it ? Thanks.
My questions ... I am intent on purchasing this Alpine head unit srereo. It puts out 50W maximum power x 4 channels (18W RMS) which is not quite enough for me, so, I want to add this amp to the system. Does it's 180W add to the 50W that the head unit puts out, or is 180W the final output ? Also the amp mentions "brigdeable". It also mentions 4 ohms bridged impedance. What exactly is bridged ? Lastly, what do you think of my choice ? I know Alpine is a better brand but would you buy it ? Thanks.
Okay, no the wattage doesn't add. You can use the RCA outputs on the stereo and run them to the amp then you can use the amp to power some speakers and the head unit to power other speakers. Bridged is when you combine 2 channels of an amplifier into one channel. Effectively, you could turn that 4 channel amp into a 3 channel (2 channels at 45w and 1 at 90w) or a 2 channel (2 channels at 90w). So if you wanted you could use the amp to power you front speakers and a small 8 or 10" sub with your rear speakers (since they are just for rear fill) off the head unit. As to your choices, yes Alpine is one of the better brands out there. I've had Alpine units in the past and can't remember having any complaints about them. The amp is class d so its distortion will be a little higher than a class ab amp, but probably not noticeably so. It will be small so it can fit a lot of different places. For a upgrade to stock, I think what you've got there will work good, even better if you replace the stock speakers with something you like the sound from to.
Originally posted by Khw: Okay, no the wattage doesn't add.
Thank you for that/your knowledge. Since I am learning, a few more dumb questions please. So, I could have bought a cheapie head unit and had the same output noise decible level ? Did I get better sound quality by using a better head unit ... by pushing a better signal(?) perhaps ?
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Originally posted by Khw: You can use the RCA outputs on the stereo and run them to the amp then you can use the amp to power some speakers and the head unit to power other speakers.
How can I best maximize my listening experience doing something like that. I could see it maybe if I was running a dedicated sub woofer. I would think everybody would want to amp up all their speakers.
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Originally posted by Khw: Bridged is when you combine 2 channels of an amplifier into one channel. Effectively, you could turn that 4 channel amp into a 3 channel (2 channels at 45w and 1 at 90w) or a 2 channel (2 channels at 90w). So if you wanted you could use the amp to power you front speakers and a small 8 or 10" sub with your rear speakers (since they are just for rear fill) off the head unit.
Interesting, mind boggling. Choices/decisions. I have actually always preferred my rear speakers to be my main source of listening pleasure, as left/right channels are more easily identified (from a distance). I use the front for "fill", which also helps with any conversations which may be going on. Not that my preferences matter to the info you provide. What do people who run four speakers and a sub use ? Help me fully understand channels. I have four on my head unit/amp. Front left/right and rear left/right. By bridging, do I lose fader control ability ? With two channels at 45w and one at 90w, as you mention is possible, do I lose left right balance control ability ? More of interest to me, is, what if I added two more speakers, ie a remote set used temporarily in the bed of my P/U for outdoor activities ? While on this thought, what do you think of using home telephone jacks as a dedicated outlet, and phone cords as speaker wires for my remote speakers ? Heh, now we are on to telephone wire as a medium replacing car audio speaker wire. Can it carry enough of the signal for best sound reproduction ? I know it works but how well is the question.
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Originally posted by Khw: I think what you've got there will work good, even better if you replace the stock speakers with something you like the sound from to.
Heh, old used/abused factory speakers is what got the ball rolling. New speaker selection may be my most important question. I have heard and believe that automotive guages work best and are most accurate when they read at 3/4 of the dial. I also have heard that speakers best re-produce sound quality when they are sized right ... by wattage they can handle. Obviously you don't want speakers which will not handle the wattage your system will put out. I have heard that some systems do not put out enough power to ... adequately power a speaker. So ... my system will put out 45w RMS, per channel. (I am not sure why "peak" power is not listed.) I don't think I would benefit from 600w speakers or even a 280w choice available. What is the sweet spot I should look for ? Thanks for sharing, !
Have you ever heard a competition audio system, or one even approaching competition quality? They put the "stock" stereo systems to shame. It's the same as all the other things you've complained about with car manufacturers. The bean counters get in and that reduces the quality of the audio systems that come stock in a vehicle. I've heard some pretty good premium sound packages in cars, but that upgrade is usually pricey and still no where near as good as it could be with better components. Let's face it, stock components are not the best the market has to offer because "most" people don't want the best they just want something to listen to their music with. The stereo in our 2000 Bonneville was a stock system. I upgraded the door and rear speakers, and it was like night and day. I added a 12" sub and everything rounded out really nice. Was it a block pounder? No, but that's not what I want anymore. I do however want to be able to hear the bass and be able to crank it up a little and feel it to when I want to.
WHAT, ME complain about anything !
You obviously have confused with someone who gives a sh!t !
I actually have a t shirt that says that !
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 07-19-2014).]
Thank you for that/your knowledge. Since I am learning, a few more dumb questions please. So, I could have bought a cheapie head unit and had the same output noise decible level ? Did I get better sound quality by using a better head unit ... by pushing a better signal(?) perhaps ?
Yes, Alpines tend to have better sound quality than a Sanyo for example.
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How can I best maximize my listening experience doing something like that. I could see it maybe if I was running a dedicated sub woofer. I would think everybody would want to amp up all their speakers.
Well, since below you say you like the sound coming from the rear, I'd suggest some really nice rear speakers and using 2 channels unbridged from the amp on them, then the other 2 channels bridge to a 8" woofer. 8" woofers don't take much airspace, but will still fill out that bottom end. I'd only do 1 woofer in a small enclosure wherever you can "tuck" it in. Then, since you only use your front speakers for fill, I'd just run them off the front speaker channels from the stereo. Usually, the preamp outputs if there is only 1 set, are treated as your rear channel on the fader. So that would still keep your fader functional. However, if you are skipping a small subwoofer, then I'd just use the 4 channel amp to power both your front and rear speakers and skip hooking anything up to the speaker level outputs on the stereo itself.
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Interesting, mind boggling. Choices/decisions. I have actually always preferred my rear speakers to be my main source of listening pleasure, as left/right channels are more easily identified (from a distance). I use the front for "fill", which also helps with any conversations which may be going on. Not that my preferences matter to the info you provide. What do people who run four speakers and a sub use ?
"Usually" when you try to reproduce the sound the way it was meant to be heard, you think about it like being at a concert. The music comes from in front of you and they might have some speaker towers behind you to "fill" in the sound. So generally in a car people try to get that same type of sound staging where the majority of your music is coming from in front of you. They would amplify the speakers that are in front of you (front doors or dash or both) and add a sub wherever they can with the rear speakers either off the headunit or a the amplifier also but with the gain turned down on them (unless the headunit has more than one set of preamp outputs and they are fader controlled).
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Help me fully understand channels. I have four on my head unit/amp. Front left/right and rear left/right. By bridging, do I lose fader control ability ?
If you bridge all 4 channels it turns your 4 channel amplifier into a 2 channel, just with more wattage in those 2 channels than each channel in 4. You would retain your fader control, usually, assuming you have your front speakers hooked up tot he front outputs on the stereo. If you hooked your front speakers up to the rear output on the stereo and then the amp up to your rear speakers you would lose your fader control.
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With two channels at 45w and one at 90w, as you mention is possible, do I lose left right balance control ability ?
Yes and no. On the 2 channels that would be powering a set of speakers in stereo you would retain your balance control. On the single bridged channel though, your left and right would be combined making that output monoral. In vehicles a lot of time people make bass mono because it's difficult to tell where it's coming from. Does that mean if you had a song with a left right left right left right bass thump that you wouldn't be able to tell it pulsed back and forth if your subs were in stereo? Not at all, I can attest that you can but such an occurrence in music is not common. So mono bass is common even though I prefer stereo. Our Mazda is mono bass as we have a single 12" subwoofer in it but my Fiero and Neon were both stereo.
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More of interest to me, is, what if I added two more speakers, ie a remote set used temporarily in the bed of my P/U for outdoor activities ?
According to the specs on that amp it is 1 ohm stable (at least that's what Best Buy lists under specifications). So if your rear speakers are 4 ohm (most common ohms for car speakers) you could connect another set up to the output on the amplifier along with the set already on those 2 channels and it would only drop the ohm rating to 2 ohms (again assuming the speakers you add are 4 ohm, the most common ohm for car speakers). Theoretically, you could actually connect four 4 ohm speakers up to each channel without going below the 1 ohm rating.
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While on this thought, what do you think of using home telephone jacks as a dedicated outlet, and phone cords as speaker wires for my remote speakers ? Heh, now we are on to telephone wire as a medium replacing car audio speaker wire. Can it carry enough of the signal for best sound reproduction ? I know it works but how well is the question.
I wouldn't do it. Think of it as being under water. Would you want to breath through a straw or a 1" PVC pipe? Well, the speaker is you and the wire is that straw or the PVC pipe. I'd suggest 18 gauge minimum for the speaker wire and 18 gauge lamp cord would be fine. It's pretty cheap and easy to find at Home Depot or Lowe's. For the connection, I'd get something like this:
Except I'd try to find the style that is encased in plastic so you don't have to worry about something metal jumping 2 of the contact and shorting your amp.
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Heh, old used/abused factory speakers is what got the ball rolling. New speaker selection may be my most important question. I have heard and believe that automotive guages work best and are most accurate when they read at 3/4 of the dial. I also have heard that speakers best re-produce sound quality when they are sized right ... by wattage they can handle. Obviously you don't want speakers which will not handle the wattage your system will put out. I have heard that some systems do not put out enough power to ... adequately power a speaker. So ... my system will put out 45w RMS, per channel. (I am not sure why "peak" power is not listed.) I don't think I would benefit from 600w speakers or even a 280w choice available. What is the sweet spot I should look for ? Thanks for sharing, !
The sweet spot. This one is a little harder to answer as it's somewhat controversial. There are those who say 500 watt amp - 500 watt speakers, but I'm not of that camp. The reality is speakers are rated at a certain DB from 1 meter with 1 watt of input. This is usually in the high 80's to high 90's for that DB rating. So say your speaker will produce a 96 DB volume level with 1 watt. If you double the power you go up 3 DB as a general rule, so at 2 watts you'd be 99 DB, 4 watts 102 DB, 8 watts 105 DB, 16 watts 108 DB, 32 watts 111 DB, 64 watts 114 db and so on. Like I said earlier, you get up to 120 DB and you have eliminated the ability to hear anyone else in your car or anything happening outside your car, so chances are you aren't going to be listening to it at that level. Most people probably don't listen to their stereo much past 110 DB. So while you may have 6000 watts, your not really using all that wattage nor are your 6000 watt speakers seeing 6000 watts that often if ever. If your competing in a DB drag race, okay they probably see that 6000 watts, but how many of us really do that? That's why people are always surprised when they hear my stereo install. It usually goes like this: "Wow, what, do you have like 3000 watts in here?" "No, I've got a 250 watt amp pushing the 10's and a 280 watt 4 channel for the other speakers.". You don't need thousands of watts. Back in the day when this all began we didn't have 1000 watt amps and speakers but you could here our systems from a block away. Anyways, Yeah get a speaker that isn't less wattage then what your giving to it because you are more apt to blow it. Yeah don't get a 1000 watt speaker and use a 50 watt amp to push it because it's power hungry and your going to have to push your amp into clipping to move it, again meaning your more likely to blow it. Rather, get something close, say within 50 to 100 watts, to watt your supplying as long as you like the way they sound. Because again, your probably not going to ever feed them 150 watts. Most speakers nowadays are rated in peak watts, just like amps. Why? Because people are impressed by BIG numbers.Usually a amp will supply twice it's RMS wattage peak. So a 45 watt RMS should do 90 watts peak. So I'd say look for something in the 100 to 200 watt range as far as speakers go. I mean consider this. How many people buy those 200 watt Sony 6x9's and then hook them up to there 12.5 watt RMS stereo speaker output yet never have a problem with them and are happy with the improved sounds?
The above is my point of view on things, and if others chime in with points of view that oppose mine, it's kewl, I'm fine with that. The above is just my experience and what I've observed over the years that I've been doing car audio. Sorry this took so long to get posted. We had our grandson today and well, family comes first .
Originally posted by Khw: Sorry this took so long to get posted. We had our grandson today and well, family comes first .
That's ok, I am used to playing second fiddle, . Congratulations. I have a grandson due on the second of August. My daughter's first, hence no tracking number. The first is the most unpredictable. Thank you for your wisdom. It gives me options to figure out a speaker power supply plan. I get your analogy of needing the correct sized snorkel tube. My fondness of a phone jack remote connection is the ease of whipping out a cord and plugging it in ... no tools needed. A simple phone jack also has the exact amount of wires to power two speakers. What do you think about a regular home 110v receptacle (which has two outlets)? Heh, I could even use an outdoor weatherproof cover.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 07-20-2014).]
A home outlet, while it's an interesting idea, you would need two separate outlets. You wouldn't be able to hook left and right up to a single twin outlet. I mean, you hook up 1 Hot, Neutral and Ground per outlet which has 2 sockets. You don't hook up a pair of those to each socket to power the top half and the bottom half. So internally, the top and bottom are connected together. But yeah, it's a possibility also if you use 2 separate outlets.
Speakers. multiple drivers (2 way, 3 way, 4 way, components) divide up the frequencies they are reproducing between the speakers present with capacitors and coils and such. Dual cone use a whizzer in the center to help reproduce the higher frequencies but off a shared coil. Oval speakers tend to distort easier than round speakers. Personally I like components (your speakers where the mid/woofer is separate from the trweeter and has a crossover network that comes with them to send certain frequency ranges to each speaker). But hear again, if at all possible I'd try to listen to the speakers your thinking of buying. Pep boys, best buy and car audio stores should have audio boards you can audition their products with. 2 different speakers can have very similar specs and sound completely different. I like the way most Polk speakers I've heard sound while my dad likes mostly JBLs.
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 07-21-2014).]
The 8 gauge wire going to the battery has an in-line fuse holder.
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