According to this report, the Obama Administration gave $3.1 billion in Foreign Military Financing (FMF) for Israel for the Fiscal Year 2014. In addition, the U.S contributed $504 million to the joint U.S.-Israel Missile Defense Program during FY 2014. If we include that number, American taxpayers give Israel $9.9 million per day.
So, basically we are now giving money to both sides of the fight, which not only solves nothing, it makes things worse.
Brad
[This message has been edited by Fats (edited 07-21-2014).]
Israel is a country completely surrounded by either water or enemies who openly call for its destruction. It is the only free society in the ME, and counts Arabs and Palestinians as her citizens. Many of our own high tech devices are created/innovated in Israel, the Iron Dome missile defense system, for instance. Don't think that Raytheon was in on that alone. So aid to ensure its survival is pretty vital and is in our interests, as well.
The US funds the opposition enough to prevent interests opposed to ours from gaining too strong a foothold, as Russia has done in Syria and Iran.
Both sides need to go find go find somebody who gives a frack about their middle-eastern-bronze age deities.... SOME of us are so sick of them and their religiosity wars, crusades, and terrorism over sand-niggah gods, prophets and saviours from several THOUSAND years ago, that have'nt shown up YET...... that we just dont care anymore
Blow the whole place to hell............to me it only means fewer muslims, xtians, and jews left to bother me about their bull-crap middle-eastern gods.......personally, I consider it a shame Gr. Sr. didn't end gulf war one with several million megatons......
Go find some somebody who cares about the middle east, its religions, and "holey" sites....I'm not one of those who cares.....the only thing I care about is that they----and thier deities, and believers---just go away.
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 07-21-2014).]
Yeh, I know Niel...just gettin tired of the same-old-sheet over-and-over again.....Ya know, I can remember sitting and watching (on an RCA TV) in the early 70's about their fighting...I'n those 40 years, I've been infantry, been pilot, been rodeo....LEARNED to forget my infantry training and only shoot a living creature if I need food (thatnks to a sexual affair with a native american)
And these azzholes are still fighting and killing each other about beliefs, and have been for 5,000 years plus......none of them will take "no" or "peace" or "freedom" for an answer---so frack 'em.
I don't think it is primarily a conflict about irreconcilable religious beliefs.
It's considerably more about who gets to live where, and farm which plots of land, and get access to what amount of water for irrigation and other uses--that kind of stuff.
Israel just wants to be left alone. Since Day One, Arabs have hated them and want to kill them all. That's pretty much it, except for the religion part, and a very small percentage of PFF'ers agree with my views on that, so I'll leave it at that.
Israel just wants to be left alone. Since Day One, Arabs have hated them and want to kill them all. That's pretty much it, except for the religion part, and a very small percentage of PFF'ers agree with my views on that, so I'll leave it at that.
Israel just wants to be left alone. Since Day One, Arabs have hated them and want to kill them all. That's pretty much it, except for the religion part, and a very small percentage of PFF'ers agree with my views on that, so I'll leave it at that.
Correct! It is only a religious war for one side. Israel is fighting for their survival.
The latest edition of Slate(.com) presents a handy 13 by 13 matrix for the Middle East.
For example: Israel and Saudi Arabia. Row down to Israel and column right to Saudi Arabia. Or you could do it the other way around. That cell has a yellow emoticon that signifies "complicated". Click on that cell and a lithe window pops up with a brief explanation. Other cells have a green emoticon for "friends" or a red emoticon for "enemies". The last row and column is for the U.S.
"TROUBLETOWN'S E-Z GUIDE TO FRIENDS & FOES IN THE REGION"
Genius must have its day. (The cartoonist Lloyd Dangle's genius.) So I will interpret these hard-to-read cartoon panels, which are presented as a 4x4 matrix, starting with the first frame in the upper left corner (1,1), then going one to the right (1,2), one more to the right (1,3) and one more again (1, 4) and then on to the second row (2,1), etc.
(1,1) "The Northern Alliance Hates the Taliban" Uncle Sam says "Help us find Osama". He's talking to a Northern Alliance gunman. (The Northern Alliance of Afghanistan.)
(1,2) "The Northern Alliance and Taliban Fought Side-By-Side Against the USSR" A Taliban gunman and a Northern Alliance gunman firing their weapons from foxholes against opposing Russian forces in Afghanistan.
(1,3) "The United States Hated the USSR" Uncle Sam says "We'll help you win" (against the USSR) to Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan. Osama says "OK".
(1,4) "Now the United States and Russia are Friends" Uncle Sam says "Help us find Osama" to Vladimir Putin. Putin says "OK".
(2,1) "Russia Arms the Northern Alliance" Putins says "Enjoy" as he hands weapons to a Northern Alliance member.
(2,2) "The Taliban Likes Osama" A Taliban member says "We'll help you win the jihad" to Osama. Osama says "OK".
(2,3) "The United States Liked the Taliban's War on Drugs" Uncle Sam sees an Afghan who used drugs with his hands chopped off by the Taliban and says "Wow!"
(2,4) "The Northern Alliance Sells Black Tar Heroin" A Northern Alliance member steps past an OD'd American teenager with a syringe stuck in his arm.
(3,1) "Afghan People Have Nothing to Eat but Boiled Grass" Two desperate Afghans boiling a pot of field grass.
(3,2) "The Northern Alliance Liked Saddam in the Gulf War (between Iraq and Iran)"
(3,3) "The United States Liked Saddam in the War Against Iran" Uncle Sam says "We'll help you win" to Saddam. Saddam says "OK".
(3,4) "The United States Hates Saddam Ever Since the War in Kuwait" Uncle Sam rolls up in a battle tank and says "Help us find Saddam". He's talking to some ordinary Arab who just happens to be nearby.
(4,1) "Iran's Shiite Muslims Hate the Taliban's Sunni Muslims" An Iranian Shia and a Taliban Sunni are exchanging ethnic slurs in the local vernacular.
(4,2) "Iran Helps the Northern Alliance Even Though It Hates Them Too" An Iranian and an Afghan Hazara from the Northern Alliance are exchanging ethnic slurs in the local vernacular.
(4,3) "Even the Members of the Northern Alliance Can Barely Stand Each Other" Two members of the Northern Alliance of different ethnicities are exchanging ethnic slurs in the local vernacular.
(4,4) "The United States Likes Israel the Most" Uncle Sam stands next to an Israel in Jewish religious garb, with "Valentines" (heart shapes) above their heads. On the other side, two scruffy looking and clearly disgruntled Muslims, looking on at the U.S.-Israel "love affair" with obvious disapproval.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 07-22-2014).]
Yeh, I know Niel...just gettin tired of the same-old-sheet over-and-over again.....Ya know, I can remember sitting and watching (on an RCA TV) in the early 70's about their fighting...I'n those 40 years, I've been infantry, been pilot, been rodeo....LEARNED to forget my infantry training and only shoot a living creature if I need food (thatnks to a sexual affair with a native american)
And these azzholes are still fighting and killing each other about beliefs, and have been for 5,000 years plus......none of them will take "no" or "peace" or "freedom" for an answer---so frack 'em.
No, MEM, it's not about the beliefs. If they didn't have land to fight over, they'd be cool. But they each claim the same worthless piece of sand, which, funnily, is the only place around that doesn't have any oil!
Yeh, I know Niel...just gettin tired of the same-old-sheet over-and-over again.....Ya know, I can remember sitting and watching (on an RCA TV) in the early 70's about their fighting.. And these azzholes are still fighting and killing each other about beliefs, and have been for 5,000 years plus......none of them will take "no" or "peace" or "freedom" for an answer---so frack 'em.
I think alot of them are actually fighting for water, food, clean living conditions and jobs. They just dont do it right.
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg: I don't think it is primarily a conflict about irreconcilable religious beliefs. It's considerably more about who gets to live where, and farm which plots of land, and get access to what amount of water for irrigation and other uses--that kind of stuff.
I want to say we should just bugger out and let the Middle East handle itself, but I know the situation is complicated and don't have any real suggestions beyond that.
But we should definitely not bomb a bunch of innocent people.
14 minutes since the last rocket attack as of 15:42 2014-7-22. 6229 rocket attacks since 2001. 50 minutes since the last rocket attack as of 15:54 2014-7-23. 6272 rocket attacks since 2001. 35 minutes since the last rocket attack as of 11:37 2014-7-24. 6299 rocket attacks since 2001.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 07-24-2014).]
I want to say we should just bugger out and let the Middle East handle itself, but I know the situation is complicated and don't have any real suggestions beyond that.
But we should definitely not bomb a bunch of innocent people.
If we bomb innocent people, they'll be (justifiably) angry, and attack us in return. THEN we'll be justified in bombing them in return, and call the first bombing "Preemptive Self-defense"!
Jeez, you really don't understand how international politics works, do you?
My plan is now officially on the table for acceptance by the conflicting parties :
Immediate cessation of hostilities by all sides.
Israel to end blockade of Gaza. The port of Gaza and all landward crossings with Egypt and Israel open for unrestricted flow of commercial goods and legals (people with documentation), under the control of a NATO task force that will monitor and exclude weapons and terror suspects going in or out.
Second NATO task force to enter Gaza and complete the demilitarization of Gaza, removing or destroying all rockets and artillery, explosives and other military grade weapons, and locate and destroy all remaining tunnels and underground bunkers, weapons caches and command centers.
Israel to recognize Palestine as a sovereign but non-militarized nation joining the West Bank and Gaza under a unified Palestinian national government. Gaza borders as currently established. Israel to consolidate some larger West Bank Jewish settlements and abandon all the rest. Demarcation between Israel and Palestinian West Bank to 1967 Israel/Jordan border with negotiated land swaps to accommodate certain Israeli West Bank settlements (as just described).
Palestine to recognize Israel as the national homeland of the Jewish people. Palestine to maintain armed police forces but prohibited from acquiring or establish any military grade forces and equipment. Third NATO task force to enter the West Bank and secure what will become the new demarcation between Palestine and Jordan, along the western edge of the Jordan River.
All of Jerusalem to remain under control of a unified, Israeli municipal government with guaranteed access for Muslims to Muslim holy sites and unrestricted access for Palestinians to conduct their national government in an appropriately sized and constructed facility in East Jerusalem. (To satisfy the specific Palestinian desire for a capital in East Jerusalem.)
Israel to establish free and easy passage for documented Palestinians with homes in the West Bank or Gaza and jobs in Israel. Staged elimination of security checkpoints and recently constructed West Bank security separators/walls/barriers, in tandem with monitoring of security conditions and expected abatement of hostile incidents and episodes.
A limited number of Palestinians to be offered resettlement in or near ancestral homes in Isreal. Number not to exceed 10,000.
QED.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 07-24-2014).]
I don't think it is primarily a conflict about irreconcilable religious beliefs.
It's considerably more about who gets to live where, and farm which plots of land, and get access to what amount of water for irrigation and other uses--that kind of stuff.
Nonsense... the Palestinians believe with every fiber of their being that it is their duty to kill all Jews... bottom line, that is what their religion dictates.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Nonsense... the Palestinians believe with every fiber of their being that it is their duty to kill all Jews... bottom line, that is what their religion dictates.
its the same stupid God. its NOT the religion - its the leaders within the religion. They all whoreship the same Adam & Eve, Noahs Ark Jew God. its the damn conservatives who are stuck in the past, and will never enter the future. They will forever dig in with the Us vs Them BS that conservative always fall back on. There will NEVER be peace as long as religous conservatives are allowed to bluster their BS.
but, of course, I expect the conservatives already shot anyone who actually stood up and showed them how full of $hit all this is. and now all that is left is violent frightened conservatives, with a itch to kill "them".
and, dont forget, the Israeli Jews have there every fiber of their being with that same ignorant duty to kill
they ALL suck. and we should have NOTHING to do with any of these maniacs. but, since that aint gonna happen - at least remove the burden from the Taxpayers. there is no reason for a US citizen to have to pay to support this. NONE.
No, MEM, it's not about the beliefs. If they didn't have land to fight over, they'd be cool. But they each claim the same worthless piece of sand, which, funnily, is the only place around that doesn't have any oil!
Actually, they have found HUGE reserves in the Israeli waters off the coast. It is said to be an upcoming game changer. I am sure it is many years off as far as production goes. I believe there was a thread on this here in the last year or two.
Now that you have mentioned it, kind of strange nobody has been talking about it.
its the same stupid God. its NOT the religion - its the leaders within the religion. They all whoreship the same Adam & Eve, Noahs Ark Jew God. its the damn conservatives who are stuck in the past, and will never enter the future. They will forever dig in with the Us vs Them BS that conservative always fall back on. There will NEVER be peace as long as religous conservatives are allowed to bluster their BS.
but, of course, I expect the conservatives already shot anyone who actually stood up and showed them how full of $hit all this is. and now all that is left is violent frightened conservatives, with a itch to kill "them".
and, dont forget, the Israeli Jews have there every fiber of their being with that same ignorant duty to kill
they ALL suck. and we should have NOTHING to do with any of these maniacs. but, since that aint gonna happen - at least remove the burden from the Taxpayers. there is no reason for a US citizen to have to pay to support this. NONE.
And don't forget the people spreading ignorant BS like it is all the same thing or that somebody else did bad things hundreds of years ago or that the most BASIC human rights are thrown out the window in the name of god and the "WAY" they choose to worship. Sure, no difference at all..................
...we should have NOTHING to do with any of these maniacs. but, since that aint gonna happen - at least remove the burden from the Taxpayers. there is no reason for a US citizen to have to pay to support this. NONE.
Woah... I almost mistook you for an libertarian... Pyrthian, is that you?
I supposed if the Democrat party is no longer cool to you, you will definitely do good as a libertarian. I wholly support this new Pyrth in the making...
You know. Since the US is eventually going to place a puppet leader in the region at some point anyway, and he will control the people with an iron fist. Why not have someone that also says that all religions must get along?
For instance; Saddam Hussein type, but make religion a non-issue. Force the entire religion to like each other despite having fought for generations.
The people blindly follow authority figures, why don't we use that to create peace?
Originally posted by Fats: You know. Since the US is eventually going to place a puppet leader in the region at some point anyway, and he will control the people with an iron fist. Why not have someone that also says that all religions must get along?
For instance; Saddam Hussein type, but make religion a non-issue. Force the entire religion to like each other despite having fought for generations.
The people blindly follow authority figures, why don't we use that to create peace?
Brad
Thats reminicent of how it works most places, when the people are playcated, and have at least food and shelter and entertainment they play nice. They just need to do that then. If not right away a few gereations and they will be there. Kind of sad really, who really stands for something?
Thats reminicent of how it works most places, when the people are playcated, and have at least food and shelter and entertainment they play nice. They just need to do that then. If not right away a few gereations and they will be there. Kind of sad really, who really stands for something?
It may not be right because it discourages free thought, but very few are utilizing free thought when they hate other religions. They are just parroting hate.
I say that aside from killing everyone in the region (which would just move the fight elsewhere), we should at least use some intelligence to deal with the problem, and drop the emotional side for a bit.
We have the tools, and the ability to psychologically neuter this entire region. It may take a few years, but we could do it.
Originally posted by Zeb: If we bomb innocent people, they'll be (justifiably) angry, and attack us in return.
Or ... they will stop allowing themselves to be used as human shields. They will quit associating/supporting those that cause the reason for bombs to fall on them.
quote
Originally posted by Pyrthian: all monies shipped to the middle east should come from oil/gas taxes exclusively. put the burden on the problem.
Hahaha, the problem is oil/gas. They never fought before oil and gas was liked on facebook, . Perhaps you should Google all the things we depend on which are possible because of oil and gas. Oil and gas already pays for everything.
quote
Originally posted by Pyrthian: its the same stupid God. its NOT the religion - its the leaders within the religion. They all whoreship the same Adam & Eve, Noahs Ark Jew God. its the damn conservatives who are stuck in the past, and will never enter the future.
The same stupid God, . It's not politics, it's the politicians. They all whore-ship the same god of power and money. It's the damn Progressives who are stuck with their head up their azz, thinking Utopia doesn't smell like zhit, and cater to emotions. Not realizing people are emotionally disturbed. Or, counting on it.
The same stupid God, . It's not politics, it's the politicians. They all whore-ship the same god of power and money. It's the damn Progressives who are stuck with their head up their azz, thinking Utopia doesn't smell like zhit, and cater to emotions. Not realizing people are emotionally disturbed. Or, counting on it.
yup. I can agree with most of that. tho, I have hard time imaging that either side of this conflict has many "progressives" left how many trees are there to hug in Isreal or Gaza?
Israel just wants to be left alone. Since Day One, Arabs have hated them and want to kill them all. That's pretty much it, except for the religion part, and a very small percentage of PFF'ers agree with my views on that, so I'll leave it at that.
I agree with you too. I also think we should just stay out of the region entirely, and let them blow each other to hell.
Originally posted by texasfiero: Correct! It is only a religious war for one side. Israel is fighting for their survival.
hey, that gives me a great idea. why not put Israel in Texas? its just a made up spot anyways, it could actually be anywhere. so, put it somewhere with people who give a crap.
the real Israel has been gone for a long long time. This BS they call Israel right now is just a WW2 leftover, which is nothing but a token. put it in Texas. They can be "left alone" all they like.
hey, that gives me a great idea. why not put Israel in Texas? its just a made up spot anyways, it could actually be anywhere. so, put it somewhere with people who give a crap.
the real Israel has been gone for a long long time. This BS they call Israel right now is just a WW2 leftover, which is nothing but a token. put it in Texas. They can be "left alone" all they like.
I know you are probably being sarcastic, but I'll humor ya.
The Promised Land (Hebrew: הארץ המובטחת, translit.: Ha'Aretz HaMuvtahat) is the land promised or given by God, according to the Tanakh (the Hebrew Bible), to the Israelites, the descendants of Jacob. The promise is first made to Abraham (Genesis 15:18-21) and then renewed to his son Isaac, and to Isaac's son Jacob (Genesis 28:13), Abraham's grandson. The promised land was described in terms of the territory from the River of Egypt to the Euphrates river (Exodus 23:31) and was given to their descendants after Moses led the Exodus out of Egypt. (Deuteronomy 1:8)
Put in simpler terms, God Blessed Texas, he did not however promise Texas.
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