A 78-year-old Florida woman tried to fly on an international trip from Detroit Metropolitan Airport with almost $41,000 in cash hidden inside her girdle, bra and carry-on bag, federal authorities said.
A complaint filed Friday in U.S. District Court in Detroit said the Clearwater woman was trying to board a flight April 2 to the Philippines with her daughter. She initially said she had $200 in cash but submitted a form declaring she had $1,200, prompting questions. ... Federal law requires travelers to declare if they are carrying more than $10,000. The woman hasn't been charged, but the government in the forfeiture complaint said it wants to keep the money. The Detroit News reported details of the request Friday.
If there's a violation of the law, charge her, prosecute her, and if convicted them perhaps seize the money. This BS about seizing property without any charges is ridiculous and it happens all the time. When they do file charges, they don't charge the person, they charge the money. That way they don't have to prove the person is guilty of anything, but the person has to prove they legally have the money to get it back.
If there's a violation of the law, charge her, prosecute her, and if convicted them perhaps seize the money. This BS about seizing property without any charges is ridiculous and it happens all the time. When they do file charges, they don't charge the person, they charge the money. That way they don't have to prove the person is guilty of anything, but the person has to prove they legally have the money to get it back.
Putting the lawyer filth who think of this kind of crap in camps would go a long way towards solving it.
Police pull a guy over, accuse them of some drug crime. Seize the car, and money the guy has. When court comes up there is no evidence and the guy is released.
Want your car? You gotta fight for years to get it back. Kiss any cash you had goodbye.
We had a similar instance with a few guns the family owned, and kept in the family farm. The Police took all of them, and it took aver 12 years of fighting in court to get most of them back. (a few got "lost" in the process) If we didn't have relatives with means that had an interest in the guns, we wouldn't have seen them again.
She would have had no problem at all had she not broke the law & simply claimed the amount of cash she had.
Why was she hiding the money? Was it unclaimed-as-income drug/vice proceeds leaving the country? Or was she just trying to avoid paying taxes/duty on the money? Regardless, either way, it's stealing.
Which means there should be no sympathy from the Pennocks crowd here who have stated adamantly time & time again and in no uncertain terms that they absolutely HATE a thief of any kind.
Lots of people are funny with their money. Seen a ton of people who clutch their wallet for dear life in the X-ray scanners. Thats why they started the policy of holding xxx item in one hand when being scanned instead of stripping everything from the person
She had cash on her person, the scanner saw something odd and the agent was like wow money! They invoke obscure laws to try and get said money
She would have had no problem at all had she not broke the law & simply claimed the amount of cash she had.
Why was she hiding the money? Was it unclaimed-as-income drug/vice proceeds leaving the country? Or was she just trying to avoid paying taxes/duty on the money? Regardless, either way, it's stealing.
Which means there should be no sympathy from the Pennocks crowd here who have stated adamantly time & time again and in no uncertain terms that they absolutely HATE a thief of any kind.
She lied. It's a stretch to call her a thief.
What if she was just nervous about anyone knowing she had that kind of money on her... so, you know, people didn't steal it?
"She would have had no problem at all had she not broke the law & simply claimed the amount of cash she had."
It's a BS law in the first place. The government shouldn't need to know what the **** I'm doing with my own money.
If she didn't claim it as income, and she didn't pay taxes on it, then she's stealing tax money owed the government. It will be easy to prove or disprove; Look at her tax form....
quote
Originally posted by theBDub: It's a BS law in the first place. The government shouldn't need to know what the **** I'm doing with my own money.
I'm sure R.I.C.O. has something to do with it. But Organized Crime Syndicates & Drug Dealers do agree with you.....they know hiding money from the government (preferably out of the country) is how you don't pay taxes on that money. It's practically a necessity if the afore-mentioned gains are ill-gotten.
I often think how much more money I would be taking home if there was no government record of it.........i.e. "The government shouldn't need to know what the **** I'm doing with my own money."
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 08-11-2014).]
easiest way to leave the country with cash is on cards, drug dealers do it all the time and get away with it. check it out there was an article about it a while back I read, they have limits on the amount you can put on them but that is easy enough to bypass by simply carrying multiple cards. That's what the drug dealer/runners do now, this woman was not no drug dealer just an old lady who wanted to get her money out of the country.
Now was she lying about where the money came from? who knows that isn't in the article and we will probably never know, but she's carrying cash, how many peoples older relatives don't trust banks?
Edit to add its alright for rich people to wire transfer millions to Swiss bank accounts but god forbid some poor old lady with the profits from her home sale takes cash out of the country.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 08-11-2014).]
It won't be the first time I'm the only one that gets my point. I'm not saying she did anything.....other then break the law and lie about it.
Old, young, we're still against that, right?
P.S. And no, she is no different then the "rich" that do it by wire.
The only law she possibly broke was not claiming the full amount of money. The rest of your "stealing" comments have no basis in anything that has presented to date. But beyond that, she hasn't been charged with the one law she may have broken. (remember innocent until proven guilty?) So they want to seize the money without any charges or conviction of any broken law. Are you okay with that? Personally, I'm not. As I said in my original post, if there's a crime, charger her and prosecute and if convicted, deliver a sentence. Seizing personal property without any charge or conviction of wrongdoing is stealing.
All she has to do is prove her innocence, right? The very notion of having to should be abhorrent to any free person.
Edit to add its alright for rich people to wire transfer millions to Swiss bank accounts but god forbid some poor old lady with the profits from her home sale takes cash out of the country.
Steve
It would have been ok for her to wire transfer the money as well. She transferred part of it without problem. What does that have to do with your hatred and mistrust of the wealthy?
It won't be the first time I'm the only one that gets my point. I'm not saying she did anything.....other then break the law and lie about it.
Old, young, we're still against that, right?
P.S. And no, she is no different then the "rich" that do it by wire.
Basically what you are saying is that a crack rock costs 20 bucks, if someone has a 20 on them it's to buy drugs, and should be taken from them unless they also carry a paper saying why they have the money, and what they are going to do with it.
easiest way to leave the country with cash is on cards, drug dealers do it all the time and get away with it. check it out there was an article about it a while back I read, they have limits on the amount you can put on them but that is easy enough to bypass by simply carrying multiple cards. That's what the drug dealer/runners do now, this woman was not no drug dealer just an old lady who wanted to get her money out of the country.
Now was she lying about where the money came from? who knows that isn't in the article and we will probably never know, but she's carrying cash, how many peoples older relatives don't trust banks?
Edit to add its alright for rich people to wire transfer millions to Swiss bank accounts but god forbid some poor old lady with the profits from her home sale takes cash out of the country.
Steve
Actually that is how I take money out over here in China to pay my bills. I put dollars in my bank account in Tennessee and take out yuan here in Shanghai. The limit is $600 a day equivalent.
Realize she can not get dollars through an ATM in the Philippines, only pesos. Real dollars are actually worth more than the official exchange rate plus you lose a little in the transaction as the bank takes their cut.
I am in the camp of thinking my government should not be seizing money and making you prove it's not for nefarious purposes. Especially if the money goes to the police department that actually takes the money in the first place. Police for profit? Yea, that would not be abused.....
Boonie, I do get your point, but as the law stands, if you possess over $10,000 in cash and have it all on your person or in possession at one time, the law officers may seize it without probable cause. Even if all her money was totally legal, she would probably have lost it by not being able to show how she acquired it. It could have been a lifetime savings. All siezed in the name of the war on drugs.
The law has a value, but it's heavily overused to boost the revenues of enforcement agencies.
Boonie, I do get your point, but as the law stands, if you possess over $10,000 in cash and have it all on your person or in possession at one time, the law officers may seize it without probable cause. Even if all her money was totally legal, she would probably have lost it by not being able to show how she acquired it. It could have been a lifetime savings. All siezed in the name of the war on drugs.
The law has a value, but it's heavily overused to boost the revenues of enforcement agencies.
And I never spoke a single word about the seizure. Only about what she did (or didn't) do.
P.S. For the record, I despise seizure on "suspicion".
I'm sure R.I.C.O. has something to do with it. But Organized Crime Syndicates & Drug Dealers do agree with you.....they know hiding money from the government (preferably out of the country) is how you don't pay taxes on that money. It's practically a necessity if the afore-mentioned gains are ill-gotten.
I often think how much more money I would be taking home if there was no government record of it.........i.e. "The government shouldn't need to know what the **** I'm doing with my own money."
Uhh... The article doesn't mention any of this or that she didn't claim the money.
All that is known to be true is she lied on that paper.
That's it.
And I don't think it's right that you should have to. So I disagree with the whole thing.
No. Listen, I don't want to argue. I think we can agree she broke the law.
Right?
We can agree that she broke the law. As long as you're not adding things that she's doing we're fine.
Broke the law. One thing. She wasn't smuggling drug money, she wasn't taking tax free money anywhere. She just didn't declare the amount she was taking out of the country.
Sad to say the RICO statute was started to prevent bank robbers, gangs and others from income tax evasion as a way to get those people in jail. Now they have expanded the law to include terrorists organizations and more. In this case as others have said it is just a way for the police state we have become to take money from people who have it for the police to use as they please. as others have said she lied on a form, she lied by saying verbally she didn't have what she had, and she lied as they were searching her so she is pretty much screwed up with old poop Shute with sand as a lubricant.
People who do this for nefarious reasons to avoid taxes are actually braking the law and have even more hidden in places to get themselves out of it. In this case I think this old lady just didn't trust the Philippian government from taking it when she transferred it legally because she was older and paranoid of her own government but not paranoid enough of our government obviously.
we have gotten no better than the USSR we thought was the worst and it shows in how we are treated by our own government, they take everything in the name of helping us, when all they are doing is what those countries we were against in the early years of our country like England, and RUSSA. You may be to young to remember when the Berlin wall fell and not realize that is what America is becoming. Nothing more than a police state, the very people we elect are the ones we should be the most afraid of, why you say because we are no longer a government for the people, of the people, and by the people. But a government of the corporations, by the banks and for the rich. The rest of us are nothing but cannon fodder for the their whims.
Ah my young padawan.the things you will learn as you grow older will only be more as the days pass than you have learned the years you have lived.
<link>
Sorry don't know any other way to link to a PDF.
Sad to say the RICO statute was started to prevent bank robbers, gangs and others from income tax evasion as a way to get those people in jail. Now they have expanded the law to include terrorists organizations and more. In this case as others have said it is just a way for the police state we have become to take money from people who have it for the police to use as they please. as others have said she lied on a form, she lied by saying verbally she didn't have what she had, and she lied as they were searching her so she is pretty much screwed up with old poop Shute with sand as a lubricant.
People who do this for nefarious reasons to avoid taxes are actually braking the law and have even more hidden in places to get themselves out of it. In this case I think this old lady just didn't trust the Philippian government from taking it when she transferred it legally because she was older and paranoid of her own government but not paranoid enough of our government obviously.
we have gotten no better than the USSR we thought was the worst and it shows in how we are treated by our own government, they take everything in the name of helping us, when all they are doing is what those countries we were against in the early years of our country like England, and RUSSA. You may be to young to remember when the Berlin wall fell and not realize that is what America is becoming. Nothing more than a police state, the very people we elect are the ones we should be the most afraid of, why you say because we are no longer a government for the people, of the people, and by the people. But a government of the corporations, by the banks and for the rich. The rest of us are nothing but cannon fodder for the their whims.
Steve
Steve,
I know what the point is. I know the lady could have been avoiding taxes. I know we are becoming a police state.
So what don't I know that you just tried to teach my little young self?
This is what you responded to, for clarification:
quote
Originally posted by theBDub:
Uhh... The article doesn't mention any of this or that she didn't claim the money.
All that is known to be true is she lied on that paper.
That's it.
And I don't think it's right that you should have to. So I disagree with the whole thing.
Was that false? Nope. Boonie is trying to point out some double standard. There isn't one.
[This message has been edited by theBDub (edited 08-12-2014).]
I've never had to declare precise dollar/euro amounts when I've flown internationally.
I usually carry 4-7k with me, some travelers checks and the rest in debit/credit or personal checks.
I use 'Xoom' to transfer money from my U.S. accounts to my European accounts. The conversion rate is very good and it costs less than $5 in fees per $3000 transferred.
[This message has been edited by Joseph (edited 08-13-2014).]
Or was she just trying to avoid paying taxes/duty on the money?
This usually.
I went to Grand Cayman for a Doctor I know. While there he had $27,000 drawn from his bank. 3 of us went so on our return journey each 1 of us carried $9,000 in cash on us. Doing it that way avoided any entry or exit taxes on the money because it only need be declared if you are in excess of $10,000. I don't know how well it would have went over if the other 2 had the money found in a bag search and caught since they were husband and wife, but I being of no relation to them would have been fine.
I went to Grand Cayman for a Doctor I know. While there he had $27,000 drawn from his bank. 3 of us went so on our return journey each 1 of us carried $9,000 in cash on us. Doing it that way avoided any entry or exit taxes on the money because it only need be declared if you are in excess of $10,000. I don't know how well it would have went over if the other 2 had the money found in a bag search and caught since they were husband and wife, but I being of no relation to them would have been fine.
I was just going to say. The lady should have just invited a few friends to go along, and had them each carry a portion. I'm betting she didn't know, or understand though.
