It is not just "bizarre" it is old. He and I have been discussing the prejudgment of Police for some time in a number of threads. And as long as he hates them, I will be there to defend them. I held back any critical comment to or about him till he addressed me. He swung first, I get the next. I guess in some strange way, that is bizarre.....to some people?
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Originally posted by maryjane:
I addressed what you typed, in regards to patriotism--I did not address you personally.
Sarcasm is a form of insult.
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
Ahh, yes--the old "You are unpatriotic" allegation.
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
Police "judge" citizens everyday--very often, wrongly. They judge them for the color of their skin, the clothes they wear, the length of their hair, where they are parked, how they walk, what time of day it is and under any and every other criteria any judgment call is made. Many of those judged, are arrested, and never charged--some, completely innocent of any wrongdoing, are injured or killed-- evidently, by non patriots.
[/QUOTE]
Police do not "judge" people every day. Police assess situations and make decisions based on a multitude of factors. "judge" in your loose definition of the word is no different than any other slang word, meaningless. Judge is a very specific legal or professional term.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 08-20-2014).]
Your wife's SGT. made an ignorant statemet. To assume that every state or City in Ameica is like The SGT's home beat is unrealistic. America has COPS that have never shot, and COPS that have. We also have gangs that shoot COPS for little to no reason. Maybe if her SGT were do do a month in Compton or Oakland or Detroit a better understanding could be reached?
Police do not "judge" people every day. Police assess situations and make decisions based on a multitude of factors. "judge" in your loose definition of the word is no different than any other slang word, meaningless. Judge is a very specific legal or professional term.
According to you? The dictionary says "form an opinion or conclusion about."
But keep up the ignorant posts, they're entertaining!
I can't disagree with what you said here, BDub. Law enforcement and other government officials are supposed to be held to a higher standard than the general public, but all too often they are not; or are excused for many acts, less legal or even criminal. And that's not right.
That having been said, when corruption permeates the very highest office of the land, and nobody of a particular political leaning seems to have any problem with it, how can you expect government officials holding lower positions of power be held to account as well?
People want to disconnect this terrible tragedy in Ferguson from national politics but I don't think you can really do that, nor should you. I believe some of the worst things that happen on our nation's streets are a direct reflection of the politics we see on the national level. We've got many people occupying very high offices in this country right now who have made a living peddling hate and dissention. And those attitudes have filtered down to the general public level - emboldening all walks of scum to take advantage of a terrible situation.
I feel pity for the innocent people of Ferguson, MO; of all races, who have been wrongly caught up in this tragedy. They are caught in the middle - between a mass media who is fueling unrest for ratings, politicians who are angling to use the bad situation in any way they can for their own political benefit, and thugs (most who are not from the immediate area) who have come in to loot and pillage for their own selfish gains. It is truly a sad state of affairs.
I understand what you mean--I just think that conversation is relatively fruitless. Replacing local heads of police? Doable. Replacing the PotUS? People have been trying since he was inaugurated. So why focus out conversation and efforts in that direction?
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
I understand your frustration, I get upset when I see what I perceive as an injustice. I see judging all "controversial" police actions as "criminal" before the facts are collected as wrong and hypocritical. Infact, this one is not even played out or done and people have judged the COPS to be the wrong doers.
I gather my views from videos seen. I don't care about Michael Brown so I haven't really expressed a view on him. I know there are looters and rioters and I have expressed my view on them. I didn't focus my conversations on them because they don't need it--they'll get what is coming their way. I have focused my efforts on the police because I have seen direct video of them doing the things I mentioned. Will anyone be at least tried in a court of law? Not guilty verdict, maybe, and I'd be okay with that under most circumstances, but will any officer actually be tried in a court of law? I highly doubt it.
I perceive these as injustices... will anything happen?
I don't trust the police at all...or the media either.
A developer wanted my sister's property. So, they made an anonymous drug tip that resulted in a team of police in riot gear breakiung into her house, mostly trashing it, holding my sister and her son at gunpoint while the police mostly destroyed the house. No warrant was presented, just threats. Nothing was found. No apology made. No reimbursement for damages. Nothing but a wreck of a house. A complaint to the department resulted in a notice that this happened regularly, and this complaint would be filed with the others. No riots, no news, just a follow-up from the city with a code violation and a threat of eviction.
The media are creating and sensationalizing the news. I apologize to any that may be trying for ”pure” reporting, but those seem to be non-existent. I'm from the Show-Me-State. I've dealt with too many reporters whose stories were related as fact, but fact was the one thing missing. I've dealt with too many reporters who went into places they were told weren't safe, then who blamed us for not protecting them. Unfortunately, they weren't more than scared...but they didn't learn. There are some good reporters who, unarmed, share the same dangers as everyone else and follow the rules. These aren't, apparently, the types in Ferguson. My hat is off to the genuine reporters.
So, do you want the media to blow this up even more out of proportion, bring in even more rioters, and be the indirect cause of even more deaths? If bodies is what you want, I would happily let you see what I see when I close my eyes.
Firstly, I am sorry to hear about your sister. It truly is amazing what the police can get away with nowadays.
On your second point... How do I put this? I don't want more deaths. Definitely not more deaths. And I want all the rioting and looting to stop. And I want the police to stop oppressing the people in the area. However, the media keeping this up and talking about this has made it a point of conversation on a global forum. It has made news in Australia and Hong Kong (just that I know of) and other places. It's time we've had this talk about police in America. If this does it--it will have all been worth it. The corruption in this country is remarkable and if this is the way for it to be curbed, count me in. I only wish I could do more.
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
I dont think I am at all apologetic or sympathetic towards those that judge before the facts are in. Judging COPS or citizens before all the facts are in is unpatriotic. Basically those types of people are hypocrites and and ignore the Constitution of America.
Ignore the Constitution? Like cops have done many times over?
Unpatriotic? I love this country. What does that have to do with cops?
They are just as human as you and I. And can make bad calls just like you and I when they dont have or consider all the facts.
And I agree 100%. Never said anything to the contrary. However, they are trained to diffuse situations and use minimal force as required. The initial reaction from a police officer will quickly determine in what direction the altercation is going to go. Always give the suspect a peaceful resolution option. A gun should NEVER be drawn on an unarmed suspect. I suspect it was drawn or it was at the ready and not secured, this is why the suspect MAY have been able to access the firearm (if this is what happened in Ferguson). If a big guy is charging a police officer, that officer should be trained well enough to use non-lethal force in incapacitate the suspect.
All I know is what is being reported. I find it interesting that one side of this story gets a huge amount of media coverage and the other almost nothing. I have to assume someone has an agenda they wish to promote.
Just an observation, I'm probably wrong.
------------------ Ron Count Down to A Better America: http://countingdownto.com/countdown/196044 Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
Funny, you ask me that question yet my post you quoted from you missed "My wife's Sargent". My wife ---> RCMP.
It's not a population issue since Ottawa has well over 1 Million in population, police rarely even pulls out their firearm.... and Doraville GA has a population of 8500.... Yet they have a friggen tank.... WTF?
I wasn't asking about your wife. You seem to be acting like you know what it's like to be a police officer in a crime ridden area of America. I was a military police officer, but I would never compare how I would do a traffic checkpoint in Afghanistan to how I did one at Ft. Dix or Ft. Riley. You have not walked up to a car during a traffic stop, or fought someone double you're size with one handcuff on. You have not pulled someone over for suspicion of drunk driving and have that person grab at your weapon as soon as you open his door. Stop generalizing all cops without knowing their job. Especially when you are comparing apples to oranges. I don't really have time to pull statistics and account for population, but I'll bet my hat that the U.S. has more violence, assaults, and shootings than Canada.
What do you think this police officer in Ferguson did wrong?
And I agree 100%. Never said anything to the contrary. However, they are trained to diffuse situations and use minimal force as required. The initial reaction from a police officer will quickly determine in what direction the altercation is going to go. Always give the suspect a peaceful resolution option. A gun should NEVER be drawn on an unarmed suspect. I suspect it was drawn or it was at the ready and not secured, this is why the suspect MAY have been able to access the firearm (if this is what happened in Ferguson). If a big guy is charging a police officer, that officer should be trained well enough to use non-lethal force in incapacitate the suspect.
It couldn't be that the suspect punched the officer in the eye so hard it fractured his orbital socket and then grabbed at the officers weapon while he was being placed in the back of the car?
As soon as you're hit in the face by someone that big, and he's still trying to fight, my weapon is getting drawn. I don't know many police officers who would disagree. Then if the suspect does not listen or charges he's getting shot until he stops, 1 bullet or 13.
Talk about the aftermath, and how long they let the diseased lay on the road, or the show of force during the protests, and I won't argue. But when it comes to the initial shooting, give me a break.
[This message has been edited by CoryFiero (edited 08-20-2014).]
Like I said, not all police are bad. I wanted to share the video because I've been fairly one-sided in this argument (because I think it needs exposure) but I want to clarify that all police should be allowed to defend themselves at all times.
I do think the police presence there only amplifies the negative feelings of the area and does little good at all, but when shot at, they should definitely return fire and take all measures to keep everyone safe, including themselves.
All I know is what is being reported. I find it interesting that one side of this story gets a huge amount of media coverage and the other almost nothing. I have to assume someone has an agenda they wish to promote.
Just an observation, I'm probably wrong.
Yep, several sides to the story. I don't doubt that Brown was in some kind of trouble and should of been arrested. Just not killed... What I can't wrap my mind around is, knowing typical police procedures, how Brown could of hit Wilson from within the police vehicle? Are suspects not normally cuffed when in the vehicle? Do the doors not lock only from the outside? Is there not a cage separating the driver's compartment from the rear holding area? Why was he in the police vehicle? reports say he was a suspect of jay-walking... Not even a suspect of the earlier robbery at that time.
I won't think Wilson had it out for Brown... I think he was scared, lacked some training and / or did not follow proper procedures.
What was racial is how it was handled afterwards… quickly labeling the suspect as a criminal with violent tendencies (yet no criminal record?) and the other side labeling the suspect as an angel who was struggling to make it in this world. The truth is in the middle….
Like I said, not all police are bad. I wanted to share the video because I've been fairly one-sided in this argument (because I think it needs exposure) but I want to clarify that all police should be allowed to defend themselves at all times.
I do think the police presence there only amplifies the negative feelings of the area and does little good at all, but when shot at, they should definitely return fire and take all measures to keep everyone safe, including themselves.
I'm going to accept this as sincere but, I gotta be honest, what it looks like is the evidence is starting to flow against your previous position and now you're backing up.
------------------ Ron Count Down to A Better America: http://countingdownto.com/countdown/196044 Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
What was racial is how it was handled afterwards… quickly labeling the suspect as a criminal with violent tendencies (yet no criminal record?) and the other side labeling the suspect as an angel who was struggling to make it in this world. The truth is in the middle….
The truth is more toward being a criminal with violent tendencies and race has 0 to do with that.
- He robbed a store (if they video is him, which is families lawyer said it was) - He assaulted the store clerk (if they video is him, which is families lawyer said it was) - He assaulted a police officer
I wasn't asking about your wife. You seem to be acting like you know what it's like to be a police officer in a crime ridden area of America. I was a military police officer, but I would never compare how I would do a traffic checkpoint in Afghanistan to how I did one at Ft. Dix or Ft. Riley. You have not walked up to a car during a traffic stop, or fought someone double you're size with one handcuff on. You have not pulled someone over for suspicion of drunk driving and have that person grab at your weapon as soon as you open his door. Stop generalizing all cops without knowing their job. Especially when you are comparing apples to oranges. I don't really have time to pull statistics and account for population, but I'll bet my hat that the U.S. has more violence, assaults, and shootings than Canada.
What do you think this police officer in Ferguson did wrong?
Is that not what you are doing? Generalizing cops?
quote
You have not pulled someone over for suspicion of drunk driving and have that person grab at your weapon as soon as you open his door.
And why was this weapons accessible?
Well $hit then, you probably have a point! Doraville must need that tank! those 8500 residents must all be harden criminals way worse than anything we have ever seen in Canada... After all, we can tell if a man on a skidoo has a gun on them, not like you Americans with them fancy automobiles... *sigh*
I'm going to accept this as sincere but, I gotta be honest, what it looks like is the evidence is starting to flow against your previous position and now you're backing up.
Nope. I saw that video last night before posting my other reply and it's the first one of its kind that I've personally seen. I've tried to share most of the videos that have created any sort of thought in my head.
This nation has a major police problem. I don't know how many more ways I can say it. My post before that one just mentioned Ferguson police errors. I can think of multiple other instances going on recently all over the nation. Coverups running rampant. What will it take for that to change?
The truth is more toward being a criminal with violent tendencies and race has 0 to do with that.
- He robbed a store (if they video is him, which is families lawyer said it was) - He assaulted the store clerk (if they video is him, which is families lawyer said it was) - He assaulted a police officer
First two were not relevant to the initial encounter with the officer.
Last one is not confirmed yet, but my point is, if he really did assult the officer, how was it allowed to happen? By the time the suspect is in the police vehicle, he should be restrained and isolated from the officer.
I'm curious as to your opinion(Since you're local) of the initial incident. I see you're talking a whole bunch about the police actions afterwards, militarization, etc, but what about the event that started it all.
From the evidence you've seen, can you speculate if the officer was justified in his actions and maybe the police actions following the shooting, and the atmosphere of the city itself caused suspicion leading to where we are today. I've heard the kindling was already there, but this shooting was the spark that ignited the fire. It didn't matter that the spark was justified and had nothing to do with race.
Nope. I saw that video last night before posting my other reply and it's the first one of its kind that I've personally seen. I've tried to share most of the videos that have created any sort of thought in my head.
This nation has a major police problem. I don't know how many more ways I can say it. My post before that one just mentioned Ferguson police errors. I can think of multiple other instances going on recently all over the nation. Coverups running rampant. What will it take for that to change?
As I said, I'll accept it as sincere regardless of how it looks. Reference that major police problem, that would depend on the viewers perception. Personally, I think every organization has it's problems, police generally enforce laws other's enact. I see the problem at a higher level. Just my perspective.
This nation has a major police problem. I don't know how many more ways I can say it. My post before that one just mentioned Ferguson police errors. I can think of multiple other instances going on recently all over the nation. Coverups running rampant. What will it take for that to change?
I think the movement is taking some momentum... With more cell phone videos and sharing on the internet, it's getting harder to cover things up...
Originally posted by CoryFiero: It didn't matter that the spark was justified and had nothing to do with race.
well..... I'll be honest, I jaywalk every single day when I go to work. Police are here because of the Parliament buildings and diplomatic offices... not once has one even bat an eye at me... This question can never be answered but would a white, well dressed business man of got Officer Wilson's attention had he been the one jaywalking?
Don't bother answering. It can't be proven either way... Just food for thought..
I'm curious as to your opinion(Since you're local) of the initial incident. I see you're talking a whole bunch about the police actions afterwards, militarization, etc, but what about the event that started it all.
From the evidence you've seen, can you speculate if the officer was justified in his actions and maybe the police actions following the shooting, and the atmosphere of the city itself caused suspicion leading to where we are today. I've heard the kindling was already there, but this shooting was the spark that ignited the fire. It didn't matter that the spark was justified and had nothing to do with race.
I'm no longer local, but I grew up next door until middle school, then was like 30 minutes from Ferguson. Racism permeates the St. Louis area pretty highly. Gentrification has happened back and forth in multiple areas and places go good-bad-good-bad over and over (of course there are constants as well). Usually, yes, the crime comes with the Black community, and that has created resentment by the White community, who then subtly displays that to the Black community, who then go back and hate the White community, who are then confirmed that their initial beliefs were "right." I've even seen people calling in to the radio and saying thinly veiled racist remarks and it being aired. Ferguson itself was an area that I ONLY went to when I had my kickass sound system and there was a shop there that I liked. But the area wasn't good and it wasn't somewhere I wanted my car in very long. I'm more familiar with E. St. Louis, where most of my family is from and resides in, which is much worse than Ferguson but kind of a necessary evil for me to travel to occasionally.
So now that you have my background... I believe this was coming regardless of Michael Brown. As posted earlier, some kid named Chad, or Chris, or Jamal, or Susan, or Sally, or what-have-you could have been what could be perceived as unjustly punished for something, and we'd have the same reaction. I personally have no opinion on the Michael Brown case, and haven't had one the entire time, but my initial reaction to people calling it racially motivated was saying "Probably" with a shrug. I just don't think this really has anything to do with him when you boil it all down though. People have been mad for decades, and finally the anger has been released, and people found that half of St. Louis agreed with them (both sides). Because this has blown up, my White friends have posted racist remarks left and right, and my Black friends have as well. Now that it's all out, the tensions are there, and I just don't see it just "going away" with the Michael Brown case.
As I said, I'll accept it as sincere regardless of how it looks. Reference that major police problem, that would depend on the viewers perception. Personally, I think every organization has it's problems, police generally enforce laws other's enact. I see the problem at a higher level. Just my perspective.
What is your view on police raids without warrants? Not a trick question, just something that came to my head more as a "small police" problem instead of a "higher level" problem. I agree that there is a major high level problem, just also think it goes all the way down to the little guys. Curious as to your opinion on that either way.
In light of the Ferguson situation, "a professor of homeland security at Colorado Tech University, [who] has been an officer with the Los Angeles Police Department for 17 years" gives his take on how to avoid confrontation with police, and agrees pretty much with Rickaddy (and likely most here). I find this exact mentality the glaring problem with the mentality of the majority of police.
Many of you will agree pretty unilaterally with what he says. It's not that he isn't correct--sure, if you respond with a lot of "Yessuh mastah I do what ya say mastah" I'm sure they'll jizz in their pants and not give you a ticket. The problem is, when you respond to them with the same treatment that you'd respond to any other normal person who isn't above the law, they view it as disrespectful and confrontational. I used to respect cops, but a day came when I had guns drawn on me and backup called and I was yelled at and called slurs and a liar that I was just done. Many things came before and after that, but that was the day.
"Every person stopped by a cop should feel safe instead of feeling that their wellbeing is in jeopardy." Well, I don't. I wish I did but I don't. In some situations I do, like when they're around a bar known for bar fights and they stand outside keeping it all down just by being there. But usually I just feel threatened.
In light of the Ferguson situation, "a professor of homeland security at Colorado Tech University, [who] has been an officer with the Los Angeles Police Department for 17 years" gives his take on how to avoid confrontation with police, and agrees pretty much with Rickaddy (and likely most here). I find this exact mentality the glaring problem with the mentality of the majority of police.
Many of you will agree pretty unilaterally with what he says. It's not that he isn't correct--sure, if you respond with a lot of "Yessuh mastah I do what ya say mastah" I'm sure they'll jizz in their pants and not give you a ticket. The problem is, when you respond to them with the same treatment that you'd respond to any other normal person who isn't above the law, they view it as disrespectful and confrontational. I used to respect cops, but a day came when I had guns drawn on me and backup called and I was yelled at and called slurs and a liar that I was just done. Many things came before and after that, but that was the day.
"Every person stopped by a cop should feel safe instead of feeling that their wellbeing is in jeopardy." Well, I don't. I wish I did but I don't. In some situations I do, like when they're around a bar known for bar fights and they stand outside keeping it all down just by being there. But usually I just feel threatened.
Sorry to hear that BDub... I’ve found out the hard way in my youth that when the police busts your for something (right or wrong… ) you can never win an argument with them outside of court. If you got pulled over, you got pulled over. Telling them you are in a hurry or they are wrong will change nothing… At this point all you can hop for is a warning… If you get arrested, you are arrested… I never seen or heard of someone who was arrested and then the officer changed his / her mind…
It’s a saving face thing… they can never be wrong… The best you can do in any police altercation is make the process as uneventful as possible so that they have less to document against you and a harder time to remember events if you need to go to court.
That being said, there are much more good cops than bad ones. The really good ones are a cherished member of any community.
- He robbed a store (if they video is him, which is families lawyer said it was) - He assaulted the store clerk (if they video is him, which is families lawyer said it was) - He assaulted a police officer
quote
Originally posted by Purple86GT:
First two were not relevant to the initial encounter with the officer.
I certainly agree that they aren't relevant from a legal standpoint, but, if true, they may be relevant to understanding the encounter.
(N.B. Everything that follows is conjecture.)
Let's assume for the moment that it was Brown in the convenience store video. (Fact: In a press conference, in response to a question if evidence of the robbery was found on Brown's body, the chief of the Ferguson police department answered, "Yes.")
At the time of the encounter, Officer Wilson probably didn't know about the robbery, and he definitely didn't know that Brown was a suspect. All he (Wilson) saw were two guys walking down the middle of the street ... behavior often indicative of mental illness or intoxication due to alcohol or drugs, or perhaps an just indication of someone with an anti-social "attitude." Urban police departments usually log dozens of such encounters every day.
On the other hand, Brown (and probably his companion) knew that he had just stolen a $50 box of cigars from the convenience store. But Brown would have been unaware that Officer Wilson didn't know about the robbery. Brown would have had a strong incentive to avoid the police, and an even stronger incentive to resist arrest, especially if he still had the cigars in his possession.
So Brown and Wilson approached the encounter with different sets of information and totally different expectations. Wilson may have thought he was stopping a couple of the usual "crazies." Brown probably thought that he was about to be arrested. Racial issues aside, the encounter was charged with danger that neither Brown nor Wilson were likely to have anticipated.
(N.B. Remember, all of the preceding is only conjecture.)
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 08-20-2014).]
I certainly agree that they aren't relevant from a legal standpoint, but, if true, they may be relevant to understanding the encounter.
(N.B. Everything that follows is conjecture.)
Let's assume for the moment that it was Brown in the convenience store video. (Fact: In a press conference, in response to a question, the chief of the Ferguson police department stated that evidence of the robbery was found on Brown's body.)
At the time of the encounter, Officer Wilson probably didn't know about the robbery, and he definitely didn't know that Brown was a suspect. All he (Wilson) saw were two guys walking down the middle of the street ... behavior often indicative of mental illness or intoxication due to alcohol or drugs, or perhaps an just indication of someone with an anti-social "attitude." Urban police departments usually log dozens of such encounters every day.
On the other hand, Brown (and probably his companion) knew that he had just stolen a $50 box of cigars from the convenience store. But Brown would have been unaware that Officer Wilson didn't know about the robbery. Brown would have had a strong incentive to avoid the police, and an even stronger incentive to resist arrest, especially if he still had the cigars in his possession.
So Brown and Wilson approached the encounter with different sets of information and totally different expectations. Wilson may have thought he was stopping a couple of the usual "crazies." Brown probably thought that he was about to be arrested. Racial issues aside, the encounter was charged with danger that neither Brown nor Wilson were likely to have anticipated.
(N.B. Remember, all of the preceding is only conjecture.)
Totally agree!
But the escalation does not add up... I mean, no criminal record and you are busted for an unarmed robbery. Not worth a confrontation with the police.. Would of got off with a slap on the wrist or a fine... But who knows what state of mind he was in.
Originally posted by theBDub: I'm no longer local, but I grew up next door until middle school, then was like 30 minutes from Ferguson. Racism permeates the St. Louis area pretty highly. Gentrification has happened back and forth in multiple areas and places go good-bad-good-bad over and over (of course there are constants as well). Usually, yes, the crime comes with the Black community, and that has created resentment by the White community, who then subtly displays that to the Black community, who then go back and hate the White community, who are then confirmed that their initial beliefs were "right." I've even seen people calling in to the radio and saying thinly veiled racist remarks and it being aired. Ferguson itself was an area that I ONLY went to when I had my kickass sound system and there was a shop there that I liked. But the area wasn't good and it wasn't somewhere I wanted my car in very long. I'm more familiar with E. St. Louis, where most of my family is from and resides in, which is much worse than Ferguson but kind of a necessary evil for me to travel to occasionally.
So now that you have my background... I believe this was coming regardless of Michael Brown. As posted earlier, some kid named Chad, or Chris, or Jamal, or Susan, or Sally, or what-have-you could have been what could be perceived as unjustly punished for something, and we'd have the same reaction. I personally have no opinion on the Michael Brown case, and haven't had one the entire time, but my initial reaction to people calling it racially motivated was saying "Probably" with a shrug. I just don't think this really has anything to do with him when you boil it all down though. People have been mad for decades, and finally the anger has been released, and people found that half of St. Louis agreed with them (both sides). Because this has blown up, my White friends have posted racist remarks left and right, and my Black friends have as well. Now that it's all out, the tensions are there, and I just don't see it just "going away" with the Michael Brown case.
Thanks. This definitely helps me understand the underlying issues. The problem is the media is latching onto the instance (Michael Brown) that started the fire. I would like to see the media talk more about what led up to this and the true issues. When I first heard of this, I thought that there would be no way these protests and then riots started because of this man getting shot. Protest because of the police force and city government diversity and prejudice. When the media says the protest are because of this shooting it makes the protestors lose credibility. Don't say "hands up don't shoot" Say, "You don't represent us" or "listen to your neighbors".
Originally posted by Purple86GT: well..... I'll be honest, I jaywalk every single day when I go to work. Police are here because of the Parliament buildings and diplomatic offices... not once has one even bat an eye at me... This question can never be answered but would a white, well dressed business man of got Officer Wilson's attention had he been the one jaywalking?
Don't bother answering. It can't be proven either way... Just food for thought..
When you say he was jaywalking you make it seem like he was walking across the street where there was no crosswalk. We all do that. I heard that Michael Brown and his friend were walking down the middle of the street, which is 'jaywalking' but it's not something most people do. No matter how you are dressed, I would think a police officer would question what was going on, or request you to get onto the sidewalk if you're walking down the middle of a street..... What happens next is up to the person walking in the middle of the road. If they show respect and go to the sidewalk there is no issue, it they say something disrespectful and don't listen it changes from a jaywalking warning to a jaywalking ticket.
The mentality in Ferguson, on both sides is pretty sad. At this point a lot of the protesters are from other areas... Probably NWS because language.
Brad
OMG.... That officer needs to go back to training NOW! Why was he walking around pointing that gun in all directions in a crowd??? I don’t care where you are from, that is not how it’s done!
That is a perfect example of a scared cop hiding behind his weapon! That weapon could of got him killed. Had he fired once, even by accident, that mob would have destroyed him. Serious lack of training.
Of course, all of that is irrelevant to whether or not the shooting was justified.
It does make you a thug in the way he did it. If he just took the cigars and walked out the door, simple shoplifting. BUT he grabbed the objecting owner by the throat and threw him against a wall. THAT makes him a thug. He thought he could get away with doing what he wanted because he could push someone around.
How about lets turning it around a bit. Say a 20 year old white guy, walking out of a 7/11 with a couple of friends is ordered to stop and raise his hands by a black cop. He dont and the black cop shoots and kills him ? Yep, for real just last week in Salt Lake City. Bet no one has even heard a word about this one...same circumstances. The police now wont even confirm the cop was black, and you never hear the victim was white. Originally as reported the cop was 'other than white', but later confirmed he was 'african american'. Any news coverage now completely omits any of those facts because its not interesting enough.
As the days go on this is sounding more and more like the Trayvon Martin story. Sounds like Mike Brown went full chimp on one of the police officers, before he was put out of his misery.
Loafer, that may be a bit over the top. The facts aren't in yet. I wasn't there, didn't see it, but am local, and it's no time to judge. Do you have something that may help resolve this issue?
[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 08-20-2014).]
