As the days go on this is sounding more and more like the Trayvon Martin story. Sounds like Mike Brown went full chimp on one of the police officers, before he was put out of his misery.
Loafer, that may be a bit over the top. The facts aren't in yet. I wasn't there, didn't see it, but am local, and it's no time to judge. Do you have something that may help resolve this issue?
I haven't seen you post a lot so you may not know loafer, but he's a racist, plain and simple. Post history doesn't lie--the dude is a bigot.
How about lets turning it around a bit. Say a 20 year old white guy, walking out of a 7/11 with a couple of friends is ordered to stop and raise his hands by a black cop. He dont and the black cop shoots and kills him ? Yep, for real just last week in Salt Lake City. Bet no one has even heard a word about this one...same circumstances. The police now wont even confirm the cop was black, and you never hear the victim was white. Originally as reported the cop was 'other than white', but later confirmed he was 'african american'. Any news coverage now completely omits any of those facts because its not interesting enough.
Apparently no whites are rioting and looting in the streets there either.
You're right, but that's also because there hasn't been systematic Black on White oppression and racism in the area. If that were true, it could be perceived as a racially motivated attack instead of not.
I'm about as unapologetic as it gets. I'm a heterosexual, rich, White male and I love the **** out of myself and will never apologize for any of that. But there are differences.
What is your view on police raids without warrants? Not a trick question, just something that came to my head more as a "small police" problem instead of a "higher level" problem. I agree that there is a major high level problem, just also think it goes all the way down to the little guys. Curious as to your opinion on that either way.
Police raids without warrants? I smell a set up.
Generally speaking, I could not support a police raid without a warrant but, there are always exceptions. Probable Cause? I would need ALL the information to make any kind of call and even that might not be correct because of that perspective thing discussed previously.
------------------ Ron Count Down to A Better America: http://countingdownto.com/countdown/196044 Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
Generally speaking, I could not support a police raid without a warrant but, there are always exceptions. Probable Cause? I would need ALL the information to make any kind of call and even that might not be correct because of that perspective thing discussed previously.
They happen, tshark even said earlier his sister had one done off one anonymous tip. But thanks, I agree with you.
One group you left out of your post Darth is the professional racists like Rev. Jackson and Rev. Sharpton. They have caused more violence and animosity that just about anyone in this country.
No, I think those people can be covered by the "politicians who are angling to use the bad situation in any way they can for their own political benefit". In this case, they are using their political benefit to make money - and they are as bad as some politicians (or is it some politicians are as bad as these race baiters? - sorry I get them confused all the time).
I understand what you mean--I just think that conversation is relatively fruitless. Replacing local heads of police? Doable. Replacing the PotUS? People have been trying since he was inaugurated. So why focus out conversation and efforts in that direction?
I'm trying to understand what you mean by this and where you are coming from. Are you saying that we should hold local law enforcement to a higher standard than the person occupying the top law enforcement (executive) position in this country? And that we should ignore what is going on at the very top levels of the government, but instead, we should focus all our attention on what local government/law enforcement officials are doing?
I know it may be difficult for some to envision the connection between what happens on the national level and what happens at the local level, but I assure you it is there, and it is probably stronger than you think. When people observe top government officials, like the president, acting lawlessly; they get the idea those actions are now somehow "acceptable behavior" and that also somehow gives them justification for doing the same.
I guess the point I'm trying to make here is LEAD BY EXAMPLE. This works both at the national level and at the local levels.
In other words, I'm tired of some people complaining about how certain local law enforcement officers committed acts that violate the constitution and how they want action taken on that, but many of these very same people don't give a rat's ass about how the POTUS has also violated the constitution, nor do they seem to want any action taken on what he did. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.
Let's look at what your ramblins mean when using your rules you seem to have for MJ...
Read my posts and you will see I have been using the same "rules". I have said it a few times in this thread alone, we are ALL innocent till proven guilty. This forum is not a court of law where we are judgeing each other for crimes. We have differing opinions, this is far from a crime that needs judgement at a legal level.
The rest of your comments and posts are so out of touch with what I believe, they are not even worth commenting on.
According to you? The dictionary says "form an opinion or conclusion about."
And this must mean that all COPS are racist too? Yah, OK I guess they are to base decisions on......? what exactly? Never mind, you dont have the capacity.
quote
Originally posted by 1988holleyformula:
But keep up the ignorant posts, they're entertaining!
And this from such an informative well spring of knowledge such as yourself. Sure.
Im not fond of cops in any way myself, so Im not leaning that way. This thug though he was big dawg and found out he wasnt. If the story is as the police say it was, Im on the cops side all the way. Same with the rioter there the other day that dared cops to kill him. He got his wish. Brown reportedly told the cop who told him to freeze " what you gonna do.... shoot me "..... guess he got the answer. Ive had the same thing happen with thugs and bullys here...I just havent had to shoot one yet. They think because they are black they are entitled to intimidate you...they dont me any more.
Read my posts and you will see I have been using the same "rules". I have said it a few times in this thread alone, we are ALL innocent till proven guilty. This forum is not a court of law where we areeach other for crimes. We have differing opinions, this is far from a crime that needs judgement at a legal level.
The rest of your comments and posts are so out of touch with what I believe, they are not even worth commenting on.
No read your posts...You have been doleing out the judgements ,You have labled and convicted all on your own..
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
So where did your hate for COPS come from? And why do you judge them without trial or facts? You give thugs a pass and judge COPS? Thanks for your service. Life in America did not stop after military life. When did you give up and say "let the thugs have it"
And lest we forget your personal attacks on Issues you haven't a clue about...Like this one you posted about MJ>>
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
When you grow balls big enough to step up, you could apply for the job and show them how its done,....LOL. I don't think you would even pass the psych test, but you could dream about it I guess?
But what should we expect from someone who rambles about not judgeing anyone and we should know the facts ...You know no bias. You know like how you explain why you know MJ is hypocrite....
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
He and I have been discussing the prejudgment of Police for some time in a number of threads. And as long as he hates them, I will be there to defend them.
I wonder.....do you mean even when they are wrong? Well anyway. Keep up the good work...
I'm trying to understand what you mean by this and where you are coming from. Are you saying that we should hold local law enforcement to a higher standard than the person occupying the top law enforcement (executive) position in this country? And that we should ignore what is going on at the very top levels of the government, but instead, we should focus all our attention on what local government/law enforcement officials are doing?
I know it may be difficult for some to envision the connection between what happens on the national level and what happens at the local level, but I assure you it is there, and it is probably stronger than you think. When people observe top government officials, like the president, acting lawlessly; they get the idea those actions are now somehow "acceptable behavior" and that also somehow gives them justification for doing the same.
I guess the point I'm trying to make here is LEAD BY EXAMPLE. This works both at the national level and at the local levels.
In other words, I'm tired of some people complaining about how certain local law enforcement officers committed acts that violate the constitution and how they want action taken on that, but many of these very same people don't give a rat's ass about how the POTUS has also violated the constitution, nor do they seem to want any action taken on what he did. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.
Uhh, no. I see the connection. I don't see the point in talking about the president right now though. What are you going to do--impeach him for not speaking about our police structure? He's gone soon, and he's here to stay whether I like it or not (hint: I don't). So let's talk about things that we can actually do right now instead of just bringing everything right back around to the Dems and Obama. We can actually replace local law officials. That is a much more fruitful conversation because results can be had. The other way, what results will we see? Nothing. We'll just talk about the same thing that's discussed in 20 other threads.
I don't know why you think I don't agree with you. I just think you keep going back to that, and it's pointless.
Are you saying that we should hold local law enforcement to a higher standard than the person occupying the top law enforcement (executive) position in this country?
I will only point out that the POTUS has no jurisdiction whatsoever over local law enforcement and policing. That jurisdiction is reserved to the States by the Constitution. The state governor is as high as you can go, and there are plenty of bad examples from both ends of the political spectrum to be found there. I will agree that abuse of authority occurs frequently at all levels of government; that's one thing the courts are there for.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 08-20-2014).]
So, lets tackle the elephant in the room.... What can be done to end (or at least minimize) racism today? How can we get to a time and place where people would not be able to conceive how people used to be judged by the color of their skin? This is a crucial step in the evolution of humanity. Slap on your tinfoil hats folks! but if we encounter an alien race in the future, black, white brown, red, yellow, whatever color skin you have, it won't be relevant anymore....
I can see it now, Fiero enthusiasts solve world racism and manage to retrofit a Gen III Ecotec...
[This message has been edited by Purple86GT (edited 08-20-2014).]
Uhh, no. I see the connection. I don't see the point in talking about the president right now though. What are you going to do--impeach him for not speaking about our police structure? He's gone soon, and he's here to stay whether I like it or not (hint: I don't). So let's talk about things that we can actually do right now instead of just bringing everything right back around to the Dems and Obama. We can actually replace local law officials. That is a much more fruitful conversation because results can be had. The other way, what results will we see? Nothing. We'll just talk about the same thing that's discussed in 20 other threads.
I don't know why you think I don't agree with you. I just think you keep going back to that, and it's pointless.
It's not pointless. IT IS the reason why we always seem to have this kind of crap going on in this nation. Nobody wants to deal with the REAL problem and it starts at the very top of our government. I ask again: HOW can you expect to hold someone accountable for something they do wrong in a low ranking position when you won't hold someone in a high ranking position accountable for doing something wrong? It is a top-down corruption problem.
If you are going to excuse/ignore/not care about what people do at one end of the spectrum, then you have no credibility when you want action taken on people at the other end.
Sorry, wrong is wrong no matter who does it. And the problems we have in this country can be attributed to the fact so many of our population only want to hold certain people accountable and not all, for each of their own actions.
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 08-20-2014).]
So, lets tackle the elephant in the room.... What can be done to end (or at least minimize) racism today? How can we get to a time and place where people would not be able to conceive how people used to be judged by the color of their skin? This is a crucial step in the evolution of humanity. Slap on your tinfoil hats folks! but if we encounter an alien race in the future, black, white brown, red, yellow, whatever color skin you have, it won't be relevant anymore....
I can see it now, Fiero enthusiasts solve world racism and manage to retrofit a Gen III Ecotec...
I don't know if you can get to that point where everyone is looked at the same. This has never happened since the beginning of time. I think the USA is closer than it ever was but you have race batters like Rev AL and Jessie Jackson like to stir things up for that all mighty dollar. We in the USA have a BLACK President that is a first for us. Now I have read that in Ferguson, New York and Chicago Communists have now entered the fray to keep the riots going. One step forward two steps back.
Originally posted by Purple86GT: well..... I'll be honest, I jaywalk every single day when I go to work. Police are here because of the Parliament buildings and diplomatic offices... not once has one even bat an eye at me... This question can never be answered but would a white, well dressed business man of got Officer Wilson's attention had he been the one jaywalking?
Don't bother answering. It can't be proven either way... Just food for thought..
And how many times do you walk down the middle of a street when j walking and refuse to go to the side of the road. That is not just j walking that is disrupting traffic, impeding traffic, or something a lot different than just simple j walking now isn't it.
and yes a white well dressed person doing what that kid, kid my ass he was the size of a line backer for a nation football team. Did the cop over react, if his story is true, no, if the kids story is true yes. I have posted on a previous page a video someone took when the kid was laying on the ground dead and they inadvertently heard a neighbor say BIG MIKE was charging the officer when the cop fired. look back and read and watch it. but not a single person even commented on that video or its content.
the people in that neighborhood are afraid, afraid of the cops and their own neighbors who if they tell the police what they actually saw then their very own racist neighbors will go after them, just like the rioters went after the store owner who was reportedly robbed by BIG MIKE, The dam kid is like 6'2" and 300 lbs if you had read the reports.
depending on what the cop was carrying for his service weapon a few bullets in the arm is not going to stop him, and we have yet to have any toxicology reports of weather he was on drugs.
now who do we believe? That's the problem, the blacks are only going to believe a person of color and only if they agree with what they themselves WANT to believe. its a pack mentality in areas like that, go against the pack and you get destroyed. I know I have lived in places like that, the blacks stick together, the Puerto Ricans stick together, the whites stick together.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 08-20-2014).]
And how many times do you walk down the middle of a street when j walking and refuse to go to the side of the road. That is not just j walking that is disrupting traffic, impeding traffic, or something a lot different than just simple j walking now isn't it.
and yes a white well dressed person doing what that kid, kid my ass he was the size of a line backer for a nation football team. Did the cop over react, if his story is true, no, if the kids story is true yes. I have posted on a previous page a video someone took when the kid was laying on the ground dead and they inadvertently heard a neighbor say BIG MIKE was charging the officer when the cop fired. look back and read and watch it. but not a single person even commented on that video or its content.
the people in that neighborhood are afraid, afraid of the cops and their own neighbors who if they tell the police what they actually saw then their very own racist neighbors will go after them, just like the rioters went after the store owner who was reportedly robbed by BIG MIKE, The dam kid is like 6'2" and 300 lbs if you had read the reports.
depending on what the cop was carrying for his service weapon a few bullets in the arm is not going to stop him, and we have yet to have any toxicology reports of weather he was on drugs.
now who do we believe? That's the problem, the blacks are only going to believe a person of color and only if they agree with what they themselves WANT to believe. its a pack mentality in areas like that, go against the pack and you get destroyed. I know I have lived in places like that, the blacks stick together, the Puerto Ricans stick together, the whites stick together.
You seem to think that this can be something rational, it isn't it never is when people like The right rev Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson get involved, those 2 are the most racist people I have ever heard words come out of their mouths.
So, lets tackle the elephant in the room.... What can be done to end (or at least minimize) racism today?
Why are we putting the elephant in the room?
The dumbass had a 90% chance it was going to be a white police officer in the squad car. We're sure that a black police officer would have responded any differently? Oh wait! The dead dumbass, being BLACK, wouldn't have had a RACIST attitude towards the BLACK police officer.
Perhaps the dead dumbass' (victim is too good of a word for him) racist asttitude was what ignited the situation....NOT THE WHITE COP.
I've read that the cop had no complaints against him or marks on his record.
We throw out the assumption that if a WHITE 230+ lbs dumbass would have done the same thing that the WHITE cop that the WHITE cop wouldn't have shot?
The dumbass had a 90% chance it was going to be a white police officer in the squad car. We're sure that a black police officer would have responded any differently? Oh wait! The dead dumbass, being BLACK, wouldn't have had a RACIST attitude towards the BLACK police officer.
Perhaps the dead dumbass' (victim is too good of a word for him) racist asttitude was what ignited the situation....NOT THE WHITE COP.
I've read that the cop had no complaints against him or marks on his record.
We throw out the assumption that if a WHITE 230+ lbs dumbass would have done the same thing that the WHITE cop that the WHITE cop wouldn't have shot?
What are you talking about?? Get over this incident, I'm talking about racism. Stop defending it or justifying it, forget about the shooting, I'm talking about everyday life here.
So, lets tackle the elephant in the room.... What can be done to end (or at least minimize) racism today? How can we get to a time and place where people would not be able to conceive how people used to be judged by the color of their skin? This is a crucial step in the evolution of humanity.
Easy. Enough generations of interracial relationships will do the trick. And the result isn't too bad, either... my wife is black, Asian and European and for sure looks much better than me (just European).
I live in a similar neighborhood where as a white, I'm a minority. About 5 years ago, I did a rolling stop on the corner of my street. I had South Dakota plates on my car and the other 3 cars in my driveway had South Dakota plates. (I was stationed with the army in Minnesota.) The cop flipped his lights and siren on as I pulled into MY driveway. I got out of the car and stood by it as we both were now parked in MY driveway. He immediately popped out of the car with his weapon drawn and said "GET THE frack DOWN ON THE PAVEMENT!" As he asked for my ID, he demanded to know why I got out of the car. I stated, "I'm in MY driveway. It's pretty evident by all the cars with South Dakota plates and you didn't turn your lights on until I was in MY driveway." He finally holstered his weapon and started talking civilly to me after he verified my address on my license and viewed my military ID.
I watch WEEKLY people (Black, White, Hispanic, Hmong) getting pulled over and tasting pavement in front of my house. It's not racism, it's the nature of the neighborhood.
Easy. Enough generations of interracial relationships will do the trick. And the result isn't too bad, either... my wife is black, Asian and European and for sure looks much better than me (just European).
What are you talking about?? Get over this incident, I'm talking about racism. Stop defending it or justifying it, forget about the shooting, I'm talking about everyday life here.
Well you said it was the elephant in this room of this incident.
Really? I'm defending or justifying RACISM? You want to talk with me about racism? I know exactly where I stand and who I am with racism. You're talking to someone who for the last 7 years of my Army career was a school trained Equal Opportunity Advisor. That school is no cakewalk and will put you through the wringer on what you think and know about racism.
[This message has been edited by aceman (edited 08-20-2014).]
What are you talking about?? Get over this incident, I'm talking about racism. Stop defending it or justifying it, forget about the shooting, I'm talking about everyday life here.
Man, this thread is about Ferguson, and the goings on there. If you want to talk about other things go start a thread.
