Experimental mice have been telling us this for years, but pot-smoking humans didn't want to believe it could happen to them: Compared with a person who never smoked marijuana, someone who uses marijuana regularly has, on average, less gray matter in his orbital frontal cortex, a region that is a key node in the brain's reward, motivation, decision-making and addictive behaviors network...
...Researchers noted that the IQ of the marijuana-using group was significantly lower than that of the non-using group--not a finding of the study, but an incidental factor that might be indirectly linked to marijuana use.
I didn't need a study to tell me this. I am reminded of it every time I am forced to interact with someone who regularly smokes pot. But I'm still left wondering, why would someone do this to themselves?
I didn't need a study to tell me this. I am reminded of it every time I am forced to interact with someone who regularly smokes pot. But I'm still left wondering, why would someone do this to themselves?
You haven't heard that it is a wonder cure-all miracle drug?
Meh, I think it just enhances the person. I know a lot of highly intelligent pot smokers. I also know a lot of ridiculously idiotic non-pot smokers. and almost every combination in between.
My younger brother used to be pretty mechanically inclined. I worked with him repairing paintball guns, but after marijuana use and whatever else he could get his hands on that didn't require a needle he has regressed in less than 10 years. The other day he called me asking how to remove anodizing. I asked "why" out of curiosity and he said "because the the part is turning yellow". This from a person who has actually anodized parts in the past. The worst part is he still thinks he is a good mechanic as do many pot smokers. I don't believe all of it is due to pot but it's still got a hold of him and it's what he still spends his money on instead of important things like gas, tires, HIS 3 MONTH OLD SON, food, etc. He lives with my enabling parents who actually pay him to go to work. Recently he did get it out of the house because he is expecting cps to inspect the house after his sons mother abandoned his son but he still disappears for hours saying he is taking care of something but he is really at a friends house getting high. Today he was laid off and is eligible for unemployment and food stamps, he says he feels like he's on vacation, I have a feeling he's going to stretch that vacation out as long as possible. Isn't that nice?
Many people would be surprised at who in their lives smoke pot....they're not all Cheech & Chong.
Not really, maybe older people don't realise it, but younger generations are more open about it, some people are consumed by it, some people function so well you don't see a difference.
Many people would be surprised at who in their lives smoke pot....they're not all Cheech & Chong.
I once heard this analogy, from I think Dr. Drew back in the day that said something like, Pot will dull your mental blade and some people, although not many, have a mind like a ginsu knife. Although the knife might get a little dull, they can still cut through a tomato.
Me? I would probably be very surprised to find out anybody that I know would be a closet pot smoker. I know there are people here that proclaim regular use and even up to a $1000 a month pot smoking habit. I know of people from acquaintances of my friends who are pot smokers (I'm not directly friends with them), but they don't hide it and not a single one of them has anything going for them in life. They live on welfare or their significant others or parents.
But I'm way, way out of touch of pot smoking culture though. I don't have clue one on how to even find or buy a dime bag of pot. I see the episodes on COPS where people go to the hood to score the drugs and whore themselves out and etc. I guess that is where people go, I don't know. Because underneath the pot trade is a very bad criminal element to this that has wide spread ramifications. That is why I say to legalize it and cut the seedy criminal element out.
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 11-12-2014).]
Hard for me to tell. I've been a light but steady mmj user for 45 years. I'm not as sharp as I used to be but at 74 I see lots of non users who are having the same memory problems that I'm noticing in myself. The other thing is that I've always seen things a bit different from most people. Not sure how much of that is due to an open mind or how much is from being constantly influenced by the daily barrage that we get from a media that is used to influence us. OK, I'll admit to the confusion just not sure if it's the mmj. Mmj can definitely give you a different perspective and I've always liked looking at things from every angle.
Too many cigarettes: cancer Too much alcohol: cancer Too much greasy food: heart disease Too much pop: diabetes
Too much MJ: slightly smaller brain? Seems pretty mild compared to over-doing most everything else in life. But hey, big win for the anti-weed folks. I guess with so much positive news about weed you gotta play up any downsides you see, as small as they might be
It's their own brain, right? Let them shrink it, I say!
quote
Originally posted by jmbishop:
...Today he was laid off and is eligible for unemployment and food stamps, he says he feels like he's on vacation, I have a feeling he's going to stretch that vacation out as long as possible. Isn't that nice? .
Originally posted by 2.5: guote from yellowstone and jmbishop
My relationship actually runs deeper than you'd expect with pot, although I've never used it I am always involved in some way or another with a ministry called Overcomers. I see addicts at their lowest and I get to see what the long unpredictable road to recovery looks like. The issues with my brother are just more of the same and its the enablers who share responsibility with addicts. One of the biggest hindrances in the fight against addiction is the system and people who can be manipulated. The drug still plays its part but my parents and the system made it possible for him to become the useless sack my brother is today.
With the legalization of marijuana I don't expect to see a drastic spike in addicts, in the case of marijuana it relies more on a persons personality to become a addict than it is a chemical dependance so without the presence of legal marijuana those same personalities will still struggle with other equally addictions like alcohol, sex, **** , video games, etc.
About the only intelligent thing you said in your entire post,
quote
Originally posted by Wichita:
I don't have clue
That you were right about !
quote
Originally posted by jmbishop: My relationship actually runs deeper than you'd expect with pot, although I've never used it I am always involved in some way or another with a ministry called Overcomers. I see addicts at their lowest and I get to see what the long unpredictable road to recovery looks like. The issues with my brother are just more of the same and its the enablers who share responsibility with addicts. One of the biggest hindrances in the fight against addiction is the system and people who can be manipulated. The drug still plays its part but my parents and the system made it possible for him to become the useless sack my brother is today.
With the legalization of marijuana I don't expect to see a drastic spike in addicts, in the case of marijuana it relies more on a persons personality to become a addict than it is a chemical dependance so without the presence of legal marijuana those same personalities will still struggle with other equally addictions like alcohol, sex, **** , video games, etc.
Then some of the people on this list may or may not surprise you,
And they even admitted that they used it, but hey we only use what 10% of our brains most of the time during our day right, that's another myth just like this study is just another myth to perpetuate the peoples idea that pot is a gateway drug, kills brain cells, turns you into Zombie addicted to a drug there is no turning back from and has no legitimate medical use.
If you believe that pot has no medicinal use just read any study on it made in any country other than the US who has the most draconian pot laws in the world, hell you can't even get a permit here in the US to study the affects of pot without millions of dollars to fight the red tape and BS the government throws at you to prevent the truth from getting out to the public.
Some more people who smoked pot on a regular basis that just may or may not surprise you.
But hey believe what you like and all the US government BS to keep it from becoming a legitimate drug for people it would really help medically ! We wouldn't want people like Wichita to be proven wrong now would we.
What is worse for you medically pot or Booze? What has put more people in jail over the last few hundred years ? What has killed more people over the last hundred years? What is more dangerous to be under the influence of ? What is really the TRUE Gateway Drug ?
Why do I even bother you all know it all even though you have never had any first hand experience with it so you guys must be right, and I don't mean people who work with people going over the edge with pot, ya there are so many people who have ruined their lives after becoming addicted to pot, RIGHT WTF is wrong with some of you do you even have a functioning brain cell left, lets see last time I smoked pot was literally months ago and I haven't had a puff in all that time, never had any withdrawal symptoms or anything else. But ya it is the most addictive, Gateway drug, there is out there and we must prevent any new studies from happening to see if it really is of any legitimate medical use !
A quote from your very own study that I find funny,
"More ambiguously, in regular pot smokers, that region is better connected than it is in non-users: the flow of signal traffic is speedier to other parts of that motivation and decision-making network, including across the superhighway of "white matter" that connects the brain's hemispheres."
So regular pot smokers brains are actually more interconnected to the entire brain, maybe that is why people who smoke pot on a regular basis are artists.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 11-14-2014).]
Why is it every time there is a study showing pot produces negative effects, the long knives come out?
Like jmbishop, I've never used pot but I have a brother who is hopelessly addicted to it. He is a barely functioning addict; barely in the sense that he does hold a job but the only reason why is because that job can be "worked in" around his regular, daily pot use. He has had other jobs in the past that he quit because they conflicted with his pot use. And this job was more of a necessity because his unemployment ran out and my parents' income just decreased substantially because my dad recently retired, and they can no longer afford to give him as much money as they were (yes - they are enablers).
Unlike jmbishop, I do believe that the legalization of pot will inevitably lead to more addicts, because it will become more available and become more "accepted" in society since it will lose the stigma of being illegal. Not only that, but we are bombarded every day by biased studies that try to put a positive tilt on pot use (one has to wonder how many of these studies are run by people under the influence of pot)...
84fiero123 asked what is more dangerous to be under the influence of. I believe he was comparing alcohol to pot. My response to that is if a person is addicted to either and it affects his or her capacity to make good judgments, then both are dangerous. So I guess the real question is which is more addictive? I know plenty of people who occasionally drink alcohol but they are not alcoholics. I also know a few people who are alcoholics. In contrast, over the course of my life, I've only known a handful of people who only occasionally smoked pot (or at least would only admit to me that much). The vast majority of people I knew or know who smoke pot, do it on a daily basis for the high - to the extent they plan their daily life around it and let it influence all the daily decisions they make. And that, my friends, is what is known as an addiction.
This study proves that regular pot use negatively affects the part of the brain that deals with addictive behavior, decision-making ability, and motivation. By definition, that tells me that pot smoking can certainly lead to addiction, affect a person's judgment, and could decrease their motivation. How is any of this good for society?
I HAVE TO ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN: WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THIS TO YOURSELF? For the life of me, I can't imagine any high being good enough to offset the negative effects the use of such substances would induce in me.
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 11-14-2014).]
I HAVE TO ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN: WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THIS TO YOURSELF? For the life of me, I can't imagine any high being good enough to offset the negative effects the use of such substances would induce in me.
I wouldn't.
You bring up it has negatives and wonder why people bring up its positives.
You have a particular agenda non objective against it. That is obvious.
It happens to be a very small problem in the grand list of problems and stats prove that without a doubt by far.
Why not rage against stuff that is actually important? Seriously. Do you rant against booze or tobacco?
Do you realize how insignificant weed is in comparison to other vices that you don't have an agenda against?
I bet Red Meat is more harmful than weed. I hope no one you know gets heart disease or cancer. You will be ranting about how bad it is to eat steak.
Look, go pour yourself a shot and light up a smoke while cooking a burger with charcoal and relax cause none of this **** is going to get you.
Originally posted by Darth Fiero: This study proves that regular pot use negatively affects the part of the brain that deals with addictive behavior, decision-making ability, and motivation. By definition, that tells me that pot smoking can certainly lead to addiction, affect a person's judgment, and could decrease their motivation. How is any of this good for society?
I'm sure there are also studies that don't indicate this, but I can say the above is exactly what my personal experience has led me to conclude. I also believe there are addictive personalities that would be addicted to something else if pot wasn't available. In my younger years, I knew all kinds of "burn-outs" who could have had a "successful" future if they had put 1/10th the effort into self-improvement instead of self-destruction. Their lives revolved around smoking that next joint and they mooched their way through all of their friends and relatives until they eventually began stealing from these same people and others to support their habits. Back when I worked at the prison, the majority of the inmates were past users of some type of drug. Granted correlation doesn't mean causation, but I doubt that it's that difficult to connect the dots on this one.
To keep things balanced, a cop once told me he'd rather deal with a pot-head than a drunk any day as alcohol makes people more aggressive and pot tends to mellow them out. And, after I watched a video of a little girl whose brain was destroyed by thousands of seizures and modern pharmaceuticals have her seizures greatly reduced due to a cannabis derivative (not THC) for some people that "brain shrinking" side-effect might be a good thing.
Unlike jmbishop, I do believe that the legalization of pot will inevitably lead to more addicts, because it will become more available and become more "accepted" in society since it will lose the stigma appeal of being illegal.
I disagree, see my "correction" above.
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:I know plenty of people who occasionally drink alcohol but they are not alcoholics. I also know a few people who are alcoholics. In contrast, over the course of my life, I've only known a handful of people who only occasionally smoked pot (or at least would only admit to me that much). The vast majority of people I knew or know who smoke pot, do it on a daily basis for the high - to the extent they plan their daily life around it and let it influence all the daily decisions they make.
Interesting. I agree with you on the alcohol users among the people I know but I haven't ever personally experienced a pot "addict", just a lot of recreational users.
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:
This study proves that regular pot use negatively affects the part of the brain that deals with addictive behavior, decision-making ability, and motivation. By definition, that tells me that pot smoking can certainly lead to addiction, affect a person's judgment, and could decrease their motivation. How is any of this good for society?
I HAVE TO ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN: WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THIS TO YOURSELF? For the life of me, I can't imagine any high being good enough to offset the negative effects the use of such substances would induce in me.
Fully agreed. I don't get using pot, either. I think I tried about three times in my life and, if anything, disliked the effects. But the same goes for cigarettes... and there are millions upon millions out there who smoke and I don't understand why someone would want to do that.
But just because you and me don't understand it, that's not the basis for policy in a society. I see the fact that a lot of people seem to want to get high on a regular basis using everything from prescription drugs, alcohol, nicotine, and pot to cocaine, crack, heroin, and meth. That's not good but it seems pretty common to me (across cultures and ages). On the other hand, I see the effects that making drugs illegal and the so-called "war on drugs" has on individuals, societies and whole countries. If I weight one against the other, I think most, if not all, drugs should be made legal, quality controlled, and taxed. Fighting a war against human nature is a losing proposition and the way we're doing it is doing much more harm than good. It also makes a lot of very bad people very wealthy (and I'm not talking about the Bacardi family here...).
[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 11-14-2014).]
I'm surprised so many people here are quick to blame the substance when somebody abuses it. What happened to personal responsibility? You don't blame the gun in a shooting do you? Of course not. You will fight for guns no matter how many times a gun gets misused.
Darth if your brother was an alcoholic would you be marching to have alcohol prohibition reinstated?
At the end of the day none of this matters. The legal MJ movement is happening whether you like it or not. That's the result of people actually learning the truth about it, not still believing the reefer madness lies
I don't. Some people here just don't want to read and/or understand what I'm saying. If I just blamed the gun I wouldn't have to make an argument, would I?
Why is it every time there is a study showing pot produces negative effects, the long knives come out?
Like jmbishop, I've never used pot but I have a brother who is hopelessly addicted to it.
What would you call what you did?
I know literally hundreds of people who smoke pot on a regular basis for pain relief, you do know pot, weed, MJ, what ever your preferred name is, that are not addicted to it. I also have known over my lifetime a few hundred more who smoke all the time for recreational use as well, many are very productive members of society even very successful business owners who you would never know used it. So I guess the reason you only see the ones who smoke pot as the waste products they are is because they overuse it and can't control themselves. Lots of people have addictive personalities, they get addicted to just about anything they try that makes them feel good, is that any reason that those few can't control their urges to take all the good things pot does for people away from them?
Pot has been proven to be not addictive, or if you prefer less addictive than any of the other drugs that doctors regularly prescribe for pain relief, helps people with things like glaucoma, pain relief, and many other medical problems, here is a short list,
But yet you and some others who have never even tried it once for any reason Know that its horribly addictive because you know a person like your brother who I am sure would be addicted to any drug he try's, feel good that he is not addicted to alcohol, pot you don't get sick from, don't get a hang over, or a lot of other things that comes with habitual alcohol use.
I will admit the first time someone try's pot they will have some of the more easily recognized affects so maybe those people you know are just starting to use pot for the first time. Hell first time I used pot I got the Ho, Hos and Munchies so bad I had a hard time functioning, but those go away when you use it more often or regularly for medical reasons.
I gave list of people in my first post of people who have used pot, did you even read the links? My guess is no or you would have mentioned some of them in your posting.
So your brother is addicted to pot huh, that is one person who can't control themselves and there are literally millions who can and function everyday as doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs, But you know all there is to know about pot because you have this perception of it because of one person you know, or should I say a few people who overuse it. Why don't you try reading a few articles from doctors about pot, maybe ask your own doctor about its medicinal use?
But most of you will not do that or even look at the studies that prove it actual medical use. Do some people get mentally addicted to pot, sure but some of those would also get addicted to anything that makes them feel good, but there is no proof that pot is physically addictive, are there some side affects to pot sure but they are minor compared to alcohol, opioids, and just about every other medically accepted drug prescribed today, but they continue to prescribe those more addictive drug because pot is still illegal federally and we all know the federal government would never do anything that wasn't good for us.
Just check any study not done in the US about Pot and you will see that it is not the reefer madness drug that the feds would want you to believe.
For instance did you know the biggest person who wanted pot to be illegal was William Randolph Hearst ?
Or how about that Henry Ford built a car that was made of pot and ran on pot seed oil gasoline ?
Or that pot became illegal because our so called representatives were racist ?
But don't let the real true facts change your mind, keep being just one more person in the governments back pocket who only believe what the government tells them and not the doctors or lawyers or police or any other study made in countries that actually have done studies that are contrary to the ones made in the USA.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 11-14-2014).]
Sounds as if Darth's brother is a weak man. This is not my fault. I cannot do anything about a person that is tiny of personal responsibility. Sure, we can direct such a soul, but it is that person's own personal responsibility to care for themselves. Not mine.
As stated earlier, why not fight the good fight against a killer like alcohol? Meth? Over the counter drugs?
Here is a little pop quiz. Answer the following. I Googled the answers.
I am more curious about the motivations of those who are for or against "pot smoking" we've seen 2 above with understandable motivations regarding family. and, of course the "I smoke pot, and I'm OK". The camp I am in as well.
[This message has been edited by Pyrthian (edited 11-14-2014).]
Sounds as if Darth's brother is a weak man. This is not my fault. I cannot do anything about a person that is tiny of personal responsibility. Sure, we can direct such a soul, but it is that person's own personal responsibility to care for themselves. Not mine.
As stated earlier, why not fight the good fight against a killer like alcohol? Meth? Over the counter drugs?
Here is a little pop quiz. Answer the following. I Googled the answers.
Deaths per year from...
Marijuana-
Cigarettes-
Alcohol-
Vehicle accidents-
Cancer-
Bicycles-
Prescription drugs-
OTC drugs-
Walking-
Guns-
Because none of those are affecting his brother, we all have issues that affect us personally that color our perception of what is really important. We also have issues with people who don't agree with us when we feel that we are right about something But for some reason we allow our problems to color what we think is reality. When studies are contradictory you have to take them all with a grain of salt the size of my Suburban and figure out what colored their study, for us in the US it is the governments wanting to keep pot illegal because that makes them money, money in putting people in jails, money for confiscating all their possessions they say were bought with drug moneys, money from the pharmaceutical companies lobbyists and more.
