Just found this short story, and thought it was extremely well crafted and thought provoking...

Read, enjoy, and comment below.

International Association of Time Travelers: Members’ Forum
Subforum: Europe – Twentieth Century – Second World War
Page 263

11/15/2104
At 14:52:28, FreedomFighter69 wrote:
Reporting my first temporal excursion since joining IATT: have just returned from 1936 Berlin, having taken the place of one of Leni Riefenstahl’s cameramen and assassinated Adolf Hitler during the opening of the Olympic Games. Let a free world rejoice!

At 14:57:44, SilverFox316 wrote:
Back from 1936 Berlin; incapacitated FreedomFighter69 before he could pull his little stunt. Freedomfighter69, as you are a new member, please read IATT Bulletin 1147 regarding the killing of Hitler before your next excursion. Failure to do so may result in your expulsion per Bylaw 223.

At 18:06:59, BigChill wrote:
Take it easy on the kid, SilverFox316; everybody kills Hitler on their first trip. I did. It always gets fixed within a few minutes, what’s the harm?

At 18:33:10, SilverFox316 wrote:
Easy for you to say, BigChill, since to my recollection you’ve never volunteered to go back and fix it. You think I’ve got nothing better to do?

11/16/2104
At 10:15:44, JudgeDoom wrote:
Good news! I just left a French battlefield in October 1916, where I shot dead a young Bavarian Army messenger named Adolf Hitler! Not bad for my first time, no? Sic semper tyrannis!

At 10:22:53, SilverFox316 wrote:
Back from 1916 France I come, having at the last possible second prevented Hitler’s early demise at the hands of JudgeDoom and, incredibly, restrained myself from shooting JudgeDoom and sparing us all years of correcting his misguided antics. READ BULLETIN 1147, PEOPLE!

At 15:41:18, BarracksRoomLawyer wrote:
Point of order: issues related to Hitler’s service in the Bavarian Army ought to go in the World War I forum.

11/21/2104
At 02:21:30, SneakyPete wrote:
Vienna, 1907: after numerous attempts, have infiltrated the Academy of Fine Arts and facilitated Adolf Hitler’s admission to that institution. Goodbye, Hitler the dictator; hello, Hitler the modestly successful landscape artist! Brought back a few of his paintings as well, any buyers?

At 02:29:17, SilverFox316 wrote:
All right; that’s it. Having just returned from 1907 Vienna where I secured the expulsion of Hitler from the Academy by means of an elaborate prank involving the Prefect, a goat, and a substantial quantity of olive oil, I now turn my attention to our newer brethren, who, despite rules to the contrary, seem to have no intention of reading Bulletin 1147 (nor its Addendum, Alternate Means of Subverting the Hitlerian Destiny, and here I’m looking at you, SneakyPete). Permit me to sum it up and save you the trouble: no Hitler means no Third Reich, no World War II, no rocketry programs, no electronics, no computers, no time travel. Get the picture?

At 02:29:49, SilverFox316 wrote:
PS to SneakyPete: your Hitler paintings aren’t worth anything, schmuck, since you probably brought them directly here from 1907, which means the paint’s still fresh. Freaking n00b.

At 07:55:03, BarracksRoomLawyer wrote:
Amen, SilverFox316. Although, point of order, issues relating to early 1900s Vienna should really go in that forum, not here. This has been a recurring problem on this forum.

11/26/2104
At 18:26:18, Jason440953 wrote:
SilverFox316, you seem to know a lot about the rules; what are your thoughts on traveling to, say, Braunau, Austria, in 1875 and killing Alois Hitler before he has a chance to father Adolf? Mind you, I’m asking out of curiosity alone, since I already went and did it.

At 18:42:55, SilverFox316 wrote:
Jason440953, see Bylaw 7, which states that all IATT rulings regarding historical persons apply to ancestors as well. I post this for the benefit of others, as I already made this clear to young Jason in person as I was dragging him back from 1875 by his hair. Got that? No ancestors. (Though if anyone were to go back to, say, Moline, Illinois, in, say, 2080 or so, and intercede to prevent Jason440953’s conception, I could be persuaded to look the other way.)

At 21:19:17, BarracksRoomLawyer wrote:
Point of order: discussions of nineteenth–century Austria and twenty–first–century Illinois should be confined to their respective forums.

12/01/2104
At 15:56:41, AsianAvenger wrote:
FreedomFighter69, JudgeDoom, SneakyPete, Jason440953, you’re nothing but a pack of racists. Let the light of righteousness shine upon your squalid little viper’s nest!

At 16:40:17, BigTom44 wrote:
Well, here we frickin’ go.

At 16:58:42, FreedomFighter69 wrote:
Racist? For killing Hitler? WTF?

At 17:12:52, SaucyAussie wrote:
AsianAvenger, you’re not rehashing that whole Nagasaki issue again, are you? We just got everyone calmed down from last time.

At 17:22:37, LadyJustice wrote:
I’m with SaucyAussie. AsianAvenger, you’re making even less sense than usual. What gives?

At 18:56:09, AsianAvenger wrote:
What gives is everyone’s repeated insistence on a course of action which, even if successful, would only save a few million Europeans. It would be no more trouble to travel to Fuyuanshui, China, in 1814 and kill Hong Xiuquan, thus preventing the Taiping Rebellion of the mid–nineteenth century and saving fifty million lives in the process. But, hey, what are fifty million yellow devils more or less, right, guys? We’ve got Poles and Frenchmen to worry about.

At 19:01:38, LadyJustice wrote:
Well, what’s stopping you from killing him, AsianAvenger?

At 19:11:43, AsianAvenger wrote:
Only to have SilverFox316 undo my work? What’s the point?

At 19:59:23, SilverFox316 wrote:
Actually, it seems like a pretty good idea to me, AsianAvenger. No complications that I can see.

At 20:07:25, Big Chill wrote:
Go for it, man.

At 20:11:31, AsianAvenger wrote:
Very well. I shall return in mere moments, the savior of millions!

At 20:14:17, LadyJustice wrote:
Just checked the timeline; congrats on your success, AsianAvenger!

12/02/2104
At 10:52:53, LadyJustice wrote:
AsianAvenger?

At 11:41:40, SilverFox316 wrote:
AsianAvenger, we need your report, buddy.

At 17:15:32, SilverFox316 wrote:
Okay, apparently AsianAvenger was descended from Hong Xiuquan. Any volunteers to go back and stop him from negating his own existence?

12/10/2104
At 09:14:44, SilverFox316 wrote:
Anyone?

At 09:47:13, BarracksRoomLawyer wrote:
Point of order: this discussion belongs in the Qing Dynasty forum. We’re adults; can we keep sight of what’s important around here?

[This message has been edited by Synthesis (edited 12-10-2014).]

If you subscribe to the world line theory of time travel, you can go back in time and kill Hitler or anyone else as much as you want and have no effect on your own timeline. One would think he would test the theory on an individual that wouldn't potentially erase his own existence, though...

fun stuff!

but, as the above post goes - nothing changes from your own particular view

and - then, there is the big problem - "time" does not actually exist. it is our own construct to explain motion. There is no actual such thing as an "hour", "minute", "day", etc.

*returns from the future*

Wow, wait till you guys see what happens in this thread!

I'm not gonna ruin it for ya.

See you next year.

*closes the browser*

Absolutely brilliant!

As for the timeline/parallel universe concept, we aren't sure what exactly will/would/did happen when someone traveled back in time and made a change.

To me one of the biggest challenges with time travel after the obvious is where you would end up spatially. Let's say you went back in time exactly 1 year to the second of where you are now. If you vanished from where you are sitting now to that exact same spot in the universe, but a year ago, would you even be standing on the earth? Sure the earth is in the same spot relative to its revolution around our sun, but hasn't the sun itself also moved, since it revolves (or expands in a spiral motion) from the center of our galaxy? And it is also moving, explanding from the assumed center of the universe where the big bang supposedly got this party started?

So calculating a time jump into the past or future would involved some landing-on-comet type math in addition to the rest of it.

Which brings up the next question (and hopefully I'm not changing the topic too much here): If you could go back in time (but not make any changes, just see something), what/where/when would it be? Same question, but the future?

For the past, I'd pick December 4th, 1783 in New York's Fraunces Tavern. That evening the Army officers most loyal to George Washington attended a farewell dinner. He gave a brief farewell speech, bade the men to shake his hand one final time. Instead Henry Knox pulled him into a hug, and one by one the men in the room embraced their commander. It is said there wasn't a dry eye in the room. I would very much like to see such a fitting tribute to the man.

For the future, I'd like to go 300 years forward, let's say December 10th, 2315. That's far enough that I could see where humanity was heading, and find out how they remembered our time (probably not too well overall).

Sorry I didn't read the article but I have to ask,

Just WTF were you searching for when you came up with that story ???

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by Flamberge:

Owwww! My head! My head!

I sometimes wonder if that old crazy **** sitting across from me in the train is myself a buncha years from now, grinning at me. Then, he touches my inner thigh and I realize he's just a crazy ****.

I don't think you can physically travel back in time (like Terminator), but I think since everything happens at once (outside of time, smeared like jam on a piece of toast), that the future (or possible futures) can kinda "tug" at you, but man, it's a SUBTLE tug...

Hey you -

READ "The Peripheral" by William Gibson already!

quote Originally posted by TheDigitalAlchemist: Hey you - READ "The Peripheral" by William Gibson already!

The "Cyberpunk" subgenre is my favorite sci fi, and Gibson is the best of the best.

Burning Chrome, Neuromancer, Mona Lisa Overdrive, etc etc etc. One of the best visual writers there is.

quote Originally posted by Flamberge: Absolutely brilliant! As for the timeline/parallel universe concept, we aren't sure what exactly will/would/did happen when someone traveled back in time and made a change. To me one of the biggest challenges with time travel after the obvious is where you would end up spatially. Let's say you went back in time exactly 1 year to the second of where you are now. If you vanished from where you are sitting now to that exact same spot in the universe, but a year ago, would you even be standing on the earth? Sure the earth is in the same spot relative to its revolution around our sun, but hasn't the sun itself also moved, since it revolves (or expands in a spiral motion) from the center of our galaxy? And it is also moving, explanding from the assumed center of the universe where the big bang supposedly got this party started? So calculating a time jump into the past or future would involved some landing-on-comet type math in addition to the rest of it. Which brings up the next question (and hopefully I'm not changing the topic too much here): If you could go back in time (but not make any changes, just see something), what/where/when would it be? Same question, but the future? For the past, I'd pick December 4th, 1783 in New York's Fraunces Tavern. That evening the Army officers most loyal to George Washington attended a farewell dinner. He gave a brief farewell speech, bade the men to shake his hand one final time. Instead Henry Knox pulled him into a hug, and one by one the men in the room embraced their commander. It is said there wasn't a dry eye in the room. I would very much like to see such a fitting tribute to the man. For the future, I'd like to go 300 years forward, let's say December 10th, 2315. That's far enough that I could see where humanity was heading, and find out how they remembered our time (probably not too well overall).

George Washington. A pot smoking slave owner. I guess that I'm grateful for the war of independence. Otherwise we would be part of Canada? Canada doesn't seem to be that bad of a place and I like my Canadian friends. Not to denigrate the courage of our revolutionary war heroes. I absolutely do believe that they were heroic. I smoke pot too although I've never owned a slave. From what I've heard some of my ancestors were slave owners. I personally carry no feelings of guilt for what my ancestors did and feel no need for restituition. That was a long time ago and none of us today had anything to do with it.

quote Originally posted by dratts: 1. George Washington. A pot smoking slave owner. 2. I guess that I'm grateful for the war of independence. 3. Otherwise we would be part of Canada? Canada doesn't seem to be that bad of a place and I like my Canadian friends. 4. Not to denigrate the courage of our revolutionary war heroes. I absolutely do believe that they were heroic. 5. I smoke pot too although I've never owned a slave. 6. I personally carry no feelings of guilt for what my ancestors did and feel no need for restituition. That was a long time ago and none of us today had anything to do with it.

1. I knew he grew Hemp, but I didn't know he toked.
2. Me too.
3. Me too.
4. Me too.
5. Me too.
6. Me too.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 12-10-2014).]

quote Originally posted by TheDigitalAlchemist: ... that old crazy **** sitting across from me in the train...

You talkin about Cliff?

quote Originally posted by dratts: 1. George Washington. A pot smoking slave owner. 2. I guess that I'm grateful for the war of independence. 3. Otherwise we would be part of Canada? Canada doesn't seem to be that bad of a place and I like my Canadian friends. 4. Not to denigrate the courage of our revolutionary war heroes. I absolutely do believe that they were heroic. 5. I smoke pot too although I've never owned a slave. 6. I personally carry no feelings of guilt for what my ancestors did and feel no need for restituition. That was a long time ago and none of us today had anything to do with it.

1. This is somewhat out of context, don't you think?
2. I guess I am too.
3. Who says we would be part of Canada? Maybe we all would still be the UK.
4. Definitely they were, on both sides of the conflict. While the war has been simplified and romanticized through the years (just like every other war), no one can argue that the outcome had a lasting effect on the world.
5. I've never done either.
6. Not to go down this path, but I would argue that a lot of the anger has to do more with how the descendants have been treated, as much as anything. A young man growing up in Alabama might not know what it was like for his slavery forebears, but he can hear from his grandparents about Jim Crow and segregation.

quote Originally posted by Cheever3000: You talkin about Cliff?

Cliff on a train? Nope he wanted to drive

quote Originally posted by Flamberge: Which brings up the next question (and hopefully I'm not changing the topic too much here): If you could go back in time (but not make any changes, just see something), what/where/when would it be? Same question, but the future?

I'd like to travel to significant points in history being able to video events such as: Revolution; 1941-Pearl Harbor; Kennedy assassination and dare I say Trevon Martin-Florida and Michael Brown-Missouri. Unfortunately, not too optimistic for the future. Maybe travel a few months and grab a few lottery numbers.

Wait a minute... hold the phone... if someone went back and killed Alois Hitler, then you couldn't brag to present-day people about preventing Adolf's conception, because we'd be saying "Adolf who?"

[This message has been edited by Cheever3000 (edited 12-10-2014).]

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 12-10-2014).]

quote Originally posted by Cheever3000: Wait a minute... hold the phone... if someone went back and killed Alois Hitler, then you couldn't brag to present-day people about preventing Adolf's conception, because we'd be saying "Adolf who?"

If you killed Adolf before he came to power, people would still say "Who?" Because he wouldn't much of a historic figure without that. Maybe a few very specialized historians would ask "Why him?"

quote Originally posted by Zeb: If you killed Adolf before he came to power, people would still say "Who?" Because he wouldn't much of a historic figure without that. Maybe a few very specialized historians would ask "Why him?"

Yes, the story, while funny, doesn't make sense.

quote At 11:41:40, SilverFox316 wrote: AsianAvenger, we need your report, buddy. At 17:15:32, SilverFox316 wrote: Okay, apparently AsianAvenger was descended from Hong Xiuquan. Any volunteers to go back and stop him from negating his own existence?

If AsianAvenger was able to negate his existence in this timeline then the whole conversation wouldn't have existed, from the first Adolf killing on.

quote Originally posted by Zeb: If you killed Adolf before he came to power, people would still say "Who?" Because he wouldn't much of a historic figure without that. Maybe a few very specialized historians would ask "Why him?"

No, I'm talking about kiling his father, Alois, before Adolf was born. Then nobody would know who Adolf Hitler was.

quote Originally posted by Flamberge: The "Cyberpunk" subgenre is my favorite sci fi, and Gibson is the best of the best. Burning Chrome, Neuromancer, Mona Lisa Overdrive, etc etc etc. One of the best visual writers there is.

Larry Niven blows Gibson into last week. Some of Gibson is barely readable, others are good. He seems to run hot/cold to me.